PDA

View Full Version : Quarter Final: Brazil - Belgium



Coasterfreek
03 Jul 18, 10:19
http://astrokentico-dev.s3.amazonaws.com/stadiumastro/media/wc2018/mainframe/worldcup_2018_logo.png

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2675/3418/products/57a982de56e6937daf180eb2380934a4_grande.gif_http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Flag_of_Belgium.svg/230px-Flag_of_Belgium.svg.png


Kazan Arena
6/7/18
21:00 local time, 19:00 CEST


Brazil's last 4 results
Brazil - Switzerland 1 - 1
Brazil - Costa Rica 2 - 0
Serbia - Brazil 0 - 2
Brazil - Mexico 2 - 0

Belgium's last 4 results
Belgium - Panama 3 - 0
Belgium - Tunisia 5 - 2
England - Belgium 0 - 1
Belgium - Japan 3 - 2

crzdcolombian
03 Jul 18, 17:49
no way Brazil loses this

Mad Biscione
03 Jul 18, 17:54
I hope it's not a one sided game.

J..
03 Jul 18, 18:41
Normally I would like to see Brazil win this but this really isn't the case now due to Neymar. I'm just so tired of this diving diva.

ElDuccio
03 Jul 18, 22:31
no way Brazil loses this

why i feel that crzd is the biggest jinxer ever and brazil will loose?:pokerface:

Fitzy
04 Jul 18, 00:36
If Belgium come out and play like they did in the first half against Japan, Brazil will smack them. Hopefully for their sake they play with some intensity.

Hasan
04 Jul 18, 05:27
I am rooting for Miranda and Radja here.

Ed.
04 Jul 18, 05:31
Brazil must qualify to semifinal alongside Uruguay and Croatia. #Interishere

ElDuccio
04 Jul 18, 11:33
Brazil must qualify to semifinal alongside Uruguay and Croatia. #Interishere

yep.. but that means that we have no miranda, brozo, perisic and vecino in the first games. #Interisfucked

ScottishInterista
04 Jul 18, 13:18
Brazil is the team i trust the most to beat england in the final now

KevinB
04 Jul 18, 16:50
If Martinez plays like he did vs Japan, Neymar will have a field day. Preferably play with 4 man in defense or start with 3 men but lower backline and more support on the right.

------------------------ Courtois
-- Toby ------------- Kompany ---------- Vermaelen/Vertonghen
Meunier -------- De Bruyne --- Witsel ------------- Chadli
------ Fellaini --------------------------- Hazard
---------------------- Lukaku

Or Fellaini in midfield to help Meunier and Alderweireld against Neymar. No more Carrasco please.

Don't think we'll win, but never say never. Winning against Japan in such a way is a motivational boost. Just close down Neymar, Coutinho and Willian, pressure deep and sink in. Try to break out on counter with Chadli, Meunier, Lukaku and Hazard through De Bruyne.

monster09
05 Jul 18, 07:15
If Martinez plays like he did vs Japan, Neymar will have a field day. Preferably play with 4 man in defense or start with 3 men but lower backline and more support on the right.

------------------------ Courtois
-- Toby ------------- Kompany ---------- Vermaelen/Vertonghen
Meunier -------- De Bruyne --- Witsel ------------- Chadli
------ Fellaini --------------------------- Hazard
---------------------- Lukaku

Or Fellaini in midfield to help Meunier and Alderweireld against Neymar. No more Carrasco please.

Don't think we'll win, but never say never. Winning against Japan in such a way is a motivational boost. Just close down Neymar, Coutinho and Willian, pressure deep and sink in. Try to break out on counter with Chadli, Meunier, Lukaku and Hazard through De Bruyne.

Think Belgium have decent chance, I'm saying this as they have very good players who are good on counters and with individual quality like Hazard and KdB, it takes one moment of magic to win the game.

Also Fellaini gets too much hate but sometimes it's good to have him in the team. He is a great nuisance to opposition and also in the final third.

Glass box
05 Jul 18, 07:29
Braziu wins.

Sassuolu
05 Jul 18, 09:58
I love Neymar as a player but his flapping around on the floor is disgusting but meh, hoping for a Brazil win, I always want an Inter player to win.

brehme1989
05 Jul 18, 10:28
Neymar always cries wolf. Don't they know that story in Brazil?

Sassuolu
06 Jul 18, 09:35
Isn't this eerily similar to when Sneijder's Netherlands kicked out Brazil in the Quarters?

firmino
06 Jul 18, 11:47
the only real difference is that this one time brazil already know it can happen. so maybe won't underestimate their opponent.

Howl
06 Jul 18, 19:16
Silva :palm:

How did he not score that.

- - - Updated - - -

What the fuck is this?

Paulinho and Silva miss 2 easy chances, and then Fernandinho heads into his own goal.

ADRossi
06 Jul 18, 19:18
He didn't even head that into his own goal, it went right off his arm.

Fapuccino
06 Jul 18, 19:32
The Man City players have been shit for Belgium.

Mad Biscione
06 Jul 18, 19:33
HOLY FUCK

Howl
06 Jul 18, 19:33
The Man City players have been shit for Belgium.

De Bruyneeeeeeee

Maicon
06 Jul 18, 19:33
What a fucking goal KDB

Kenny
06 Jul 18, 19:33
hahahaha KevinB scored

Jnr
06 Jul 18, 19:34
World Champion from Europe again!

firmino
06 Jul 18, 19:34
This is by far the craziest and most unpredictable world cup I have ever witnessed

Devious
06 Jul 18, 19:34
Lukako has a red arrow up today

Fernandino has a black arrow down

Jnr
06 Jul 18, 19:36
This is by far the craziest and most unpredictable world cup I have ever witnessed

Russia is playing for a semi spot tomorrow! Incredible. Plus countless other surprising results. I agree.

ElDiego22
06 Jul 18, 19:36
Brazil:howler: See ya, Gaymar

Devious
06 Jul 18, 19:37
Lol at Jesus, Brazil's #9 isnt meant to waste those chances

Kenny
06 Jul 18, 19:38
Lol at Jesus, Brazil's #9 isnt meant to waste those chances

Nr.9 is problematic for Brazil since Ronaldo.

Devious
06 Jul 18, 19:39
Courtis has a red arrow up

- - - Updated - - -

Belgium counters :heart:

dynasty27
06 Jul 18, 19:40
This is by far the craziest and most unpredictable world cup I have ever witnessedyou say that every four years





fu kennyboy fuuu

Fapuccino
06 Jul 18, 19:41
Brazil is in dire need of Casemiro. With him neither of those two goals wouldn't have happened.

Devious
06 Jul 18, 19:42
How many 4 years does firmino have?

Kenny
06 Jul 18, 19:43
you say that every four years

lol dyna, i tought you are watching the game all tied up in devious's basement

Devious
06 Jul 18, 19:46
Hazard and De Bruyen have orange arrows

Oh fuck PES this game is dead

Kenny
06 Jul 18, 19:47
Poll: Who has the biggest head?

1) Marcelo
2) Willian
3) Fellaini
4) Witsel

Fapuccino
06 Jul 18, 19:47
Who did Gabriel Jesus blow to get on the starting lineup? He's been abysmal for Brazil. I don't think he's even scored a goal yet.

Dylan
06 Jul 18, 19:48
I've been talking so much shit about Belgium leading up to this tournament to friends. I'm looking like a right asshole now. Sort your shit out Brazil.

Devious
06 Jul 18, 19:48
Miranda has the most Alientic head

Great game to watch, disappointed Miranda is gone be out of the WC, fuck Neycunt though

KevinB
06 Jul 18, 19:51
Still isn't over yet. Lost my voice already. Lukaku has been perfect so far

Devious
06 Jul 18, 19:51
I've been talking so much shit about Belgium leading up to this tournament to friends. I'm looking like a right asshole now. Sort your shit out Brazil.

Belgium vs Croatia 2 - 3

Perisic scores the winner, Ballon Dor.

Howl
06 Jul 18, 19:52
Swap Gabriel Jesus with Firmino or Costa. He's been terrible.

Fapuccino
06 Jul 18, 19:53
Belgium vs Croatia 2 - 3

Perisic scores the winner, Ballon Dor.

Poor Devious. You actually think doing well at a World Cup means you get Ballon D'Or :troll:

Kenny
06 Jul 18, 19:53
Still isn't over yet. Lost my voice already. Lukaku has been perfect so far

great goal KevinB
it's nice that you have time for us in the locker room

Wallace
06 Jul 18, 19:53
Jesus hasn't played a single minute of good football in this world cup.

How does Pep cope with this guy?

Kenny
06 Jul 18, 19:57
Belgium plays 3-4-3 when attacking, and 4-3-3 when defending with Meunier owning the right flank.
great stuff from Martinez.

Ed.
06 Jul 18, 19:57
2 goals against brazil scored by man city players.. :brozo:

Glass box
06 Jul 18, 19:58
Still isn't over yet.

It is.

Fapuccino
06 Jul 18, 20:00
All Brazil need is a goal, and the game is back on. Consequently, all Belgium needs is another to kill it off for good.

Devious
06 Jul 18, 20:03
Brazil have been passing the ball around with no real chances created, Courtis is on fire today so long range shots isnt the solution. Belgium looks deadly on the counters too so it's almost an impossible comeback for Brazil.

Glass box
06 Jul 18, 20:08
Miranda stopped Lukaku who otherwise goes through players like ghosts this game. Like Adriano on PES 10+ years ago.

Kenny
06 Jul 18, 20:12
fucking neymar

Devious
06 Jul 18, 20:13
Wow Miranda is giving Lukako hell now

Dylan
06 Jul 18, 20:15
Miranda not letting Lukaku get past him each time is great.

Maicon
06 Jul 18, 20:15
Lucky Belgium could’ve been a pen there

Howl
06 Jul 18, 20:16
That looked a penalty to me.

Devious
06 Jul 18, 20:20
Fernandino like the first half the worst player on the field

Miranda second half 10/10 so far

Glass box
06 Jul 18, 20:22
That wasn't a penalty. VAR is here, fortunately.

Kenny
06 Jul 18, 20:23
Orsato is the VAR.
but rubentus isn't playing so we're all good

firmino
06 Jul 18, 20:27
The pitch has finished, romelu

Glass box
06 Jul 18, 20:29
Miranda is impressive. Shame he's on the losing side.

Che
06 Jul 18, 20:29
Meunier is great btw

J..
06 Jul 18, 20:30
Brazilian football has been a joy to watch traditionally but Neymar is sadly destroying it with his personality. It annoys me as I really want to like the Brazilians but I just can't.

firmino
06 Jul 18, 20:30
Who the hell is Renato Augusto?

Kenny
06 Jul 18, 20:31
Meunier is great btw

he'll miss the next game if Belgium advances

firmino
06 Jul 18, 20:34
And who scores of all? Renato augusto. :lol:

Kenny
06 Jul 18, 20:34
Who the hell is Renato Augusto?

the goalscorer dude :lol:

J..
06 Jul 18, 20:34
Who the hell is Renato Augusto?

I remember him from his period in Bayer Leverkusen which wasn't that great.

And he just scored...

Che
06 Jul 18, 20:34
Who the hell is Renato Augusto?

Lol, the guy who just scored

Devious
06 Jul 18, 20:34
A world class assist from Inter's not good enough

Howl
06 Jul 18, 20:34
Game on bitches

Maicon
06 Jul 18, 20:34
What a pass Coutinho

firmino
06 Jul 18, 20:35
By the way, just to pour some salt on my old wound, we sold the guy who made that assist for 12 mil euros

Fapuccino
06 Jul 18, 20:37
By the way, just to pour some salt on my old wound, we sold the guy who made that assist for 12 mil euros

If it's any consolation, you can buy the guy who scored the goal for like 5 mill. He plays in China and he's 30.

Uncommon
06 Jul 18, 20:38
he'll miss the next game if Belgium advances

Won't the cards reset after this round?

J..
06 Jul 18, 20:38
If it's any consolation, you can buy the guy who scored the goal for like 5 mill. He plays in China and he's 30.

A better option than that Dembele guy from Spurs...

Kenny
06 Jul 18, 20:39
Won't the cards reset after this round?

nope

Devious
06 Jul 18, 20:39
Augustos glop almost the second lol

firmino
06 Jul 18, 20:40
Only 9 minutes + stoppage time left

Howl
06 Jul 18, 20:40
Wow, that should have been 2-2

Glass box
06 Jul 18, 20:42
By the way, just to pour some salt on my old wound, we sold the guy who made that assist for 12 mil euros

He misses a sitter. Good judgement, Inter management.

firmino
06 Jul 18, 20:42
You don't expect Brazilians to make such mistakes

AntonTheGreat
06 Jul 18, 20:43
lol Coutinho what an awful shot

Howl
06 Jul 18, 20:43
Man, Brazil really blew it. The amount of easy chances they missed is ridiculous.

Kenny
06 Jul 18, 20:44
let's see if belgium's coach pulls a spaletti bringing off the striker

K.I.
06 Jul 18, 20:46
Nobody ever doubted Coutinho's talent, Inter just wasn't the place for him to play consistently and develop unfortunately.

Brazil has totally outplayed Belgium all the second half though, they are due an equalizer.


let's see if belgium's coach pulls a spaletti bringing off the striker

:brozo:

Glass box
06 Jul 18, 20:47
let's see if belgium's coach pulls a spaletti bringing off the striker

Tbh Lukaku was great but obviously got tired. Miranda owned him at least three times.

Howl
06 Jul 18, 20:48
Neymar has been trash. This is the game he needed to deliver.

firmino
06 Jul 18, 20:49
That's what you get for always crying wolf, ney.

K.I.
06 Jul 18, 20:51
Very light touch, good call by VAR i think.

J..
06 Jul 18, 20:52
Neymar has been trash. This is the game he needed to deliver.

Could learn a lot from Hazard. He has been involved in the last 23 out of 25 goals scored by Belgium.

Devious
06 Jul 18, 20:52
Courtois save of his career

firmino
06 Jul 18, 20:53
This is huge.

AntonTheGreat
06 Jul 18, 20:53
Belgium now favorites for world cup?! I had them and Croatia in the final in all my brackets. Should have bet a shit ton of money on this Belgian team!

Kenny
06 Jul 18, 20:53
well done Belgium !

Fapuccino
06 Jul 18, 20:55
That's the difference between boys and men. Neymar and Coutinho are boys.

K.I.
06 Jul 18, 20:55
Kinda looked like it was going just over or was gonna hit the bar.

Congrats to Belgium and Brazil really were just extra casual looking for that equalizer. If there is a game that describes how talented Neymar & Coutinho are but how bad they are at the same time is this game.

Dylan
06 Jul 18, 20:56
Fair fucks to Belgium.

Ronin
06 Jul 18, 20:57
Costa was playing much much better than Neymar and Coutinho combined.

Fapuccino
06 Jul 18, 20:57
Belgium now favorites for world cup?! I had them and Croatia in the final in all my brackets. Should have bet a shit ton of money on this Belgian team!

Nah. France is still favourites.

firmino
06 Jul 18, 20:59
Belgium now favorites for world cup?! I had them and Croatia in the final in all my brackets. Should have bet a shit ton of money on this Belgian team!

a friend of mine is totally freaking out because a few days ago he was about to wager some money on belgium then changed idea.

ElDuccio
06 Jul 18, 20:59
so unlucky :palm: this world cup is getting really annoying now.. belgium already was shit against Japan, France sucked the whole world cup and won against a good uruguay without cavani...

Fapuccino
06 Jul 18, 20:59
If Brazil had Casemiro they would have won this. It was a stupid goal conceded by Fernandinho, which made them open up defensively, and when Belgium countered they had no one to cover the backline.

K.I.
06 Jul 18, 21:02
Costa was playing much much better than Neymar and Coutinho combined.

Yah not sure why he wasn't starting, easily the best Brazil player today.

Wallace
06 Jul 18, 21:05
Yah not sure why he wasn't starting, easily the best Brazil player today.

Injured, only just recovered. He picked it against Costa Rica.

Howl
06 Jul 18, 21:10
If Brazil had Casemiro they would have won this. It was a stupid goal conceded by Fernandinho, which made them open up defensively, and when Belgium countered they had no one to cover the backline.

Yep, not having Casemiro there, especially when on the counter attack fucked them up big time.

KevinB
06 Jul 18, 21:14
What a game. To say that we sucked is just unjustifying this performance. Kompany wasn't the best today. Martinez proved to be a good tactical coach today. Courtois is a bawwwwssss

Il Drago
06 Jul 18, 21:19
I don't know if anyone mentioned but there will be only European teams in the semifinals .

Dalbert
06 Jul 18, 21:35
I wish I could add money to my current bet that Sweden would end up 4th. England shouldn't be a problem for them, two Granqvist penalties after Stones and Maguire fuckups tomorrow.

Perisic and Brozovic has this.

Zoro
06 Jul 18, 21:44
Yes boys!!!

Ziyad
06 Jul 18, 21:51
What a game. To say that we sucked is just unjustifying this performance. Kompany wasn't the best today. Martinez proved to be a good tactical coach today. Courtois is a bawwwwssss

i don't think you sucked, I think most people would say you played a great game. Best of luck in the next one.

yoszee
06 Jul 18, 23:13
Eat shit neymar.

eduzee
06 Jul 18, 23:37
most excited match in the tournament so far

Sent from my m2 using Tapatalk

Aurel
07 Jul 18, 00:14
This match exciting? No, it was very boring in my opinion. One team attacking and the other getting a lucky own goal and just waiting for counter attacks. They even fucked those up except once.

I wouldn't say Belgium was bad or anything, but I definetely think it is an undeserved victory. Brazil was the better team and did more for the game. It's just the way the game is played at the moment. It's become so hard to attack while so many have figured out how to defend. The only two games I enjoyed watching this world cup were Spain - Portugal and France - Argentine I think. All other games were inconsistent in quality I think.

Native
07 Jul 18, 00:21
Hahaha nice one. I guess Brazil always find a way to choke. They really didn't deserve it after wasting so many chances and scoring one of their two goals into their own net :lol:

Wallace
07 Jul 18, 04:12
Brazil missed a goal scorer, a true number 9 in the center.

I can't stressed how shit Gabriel Jesus is, all Gabriels seem to be frauds at this point.

Question is, how does Pep use him so well in Man City?

chipschups
07 Jul 18, 05:03
Gabigol >>>>>>> Gabjes

Vertigo
07 Jul 18, 05:08
Brazil may have talents but Belgium got De Bruyne

There is no player can be more genius than Kevin De Bruyne, he makes everything easier for his teammates. He’s like able to predict two or three steps ahead. Damn, inter badly need this kind of player

thoriq_r9
07 Jul 18, 06:28
If this match had been played 10 times, Brazil would have won 8 of them. Very unlucky for them. It is always going to be difficult to contain Lukaku, Hazard, and Dr Bruyne on the counter when chasing the game. Miranda particularly did well on Lukaku and limited their opportunity. They really missed Casemiro's dominance in that DM spot. Fernandinho was awful, reminding me of Felipe Melo's performance on Brazil's WC 2010 exit against the Netherlands. The better team lost today.
Now, our last hope of continuing the Inter WC final tradition lies on Croatia. Guess I'll be rooting for them to win out.

brehme1989
07 Jul 18, 09:15
Brazil's midfield consisted of Paulinho and Fernandinho and Gabriel Jesus was their main striker. Remove any EPL or video game bias you may have, and let that sink for a moment.

A Brazilian midfield that is useless in attack, cannot pass and has no flair whatsoever and a striker that cannot get a shot, let alone on target.

If you cannot penetrate a midfield of Witsel and Fellaini, you know your midfield is shite.

monster09
07 Jul 18, 09:20
What a game, so glad Belgium won the game.

Belgium were too open, not surprising as Martinez can't set up to close out the game defensively. But overall they were good but made few bad decisions in the final third.

Fellaini had a very good game, just won possession so many times and proved why he should start for Belgium, which also means KdB moving to his natural position.

Hazard too had a very good game, probably best or second best player on the pitch.

brehme1989
07 Jul 18, 09:23
Fellaini was in fact Belgium's worst player. All he did was block some shots, sometimes only because they hit him instead of the other two guys that were standing in front of the shot.
He lost possession more times than not and to top that, he even made a dummy after a Brazil parallel pass instead kf stopping it.. Brazil had an attack after that instead of Belgium getting a clear counter chance from the middle of the pitch :lol:
Hazard was the best player on the pitch. De Bruyne was the catalyst, but not the most dangerous player.

Miranda was arguably Brazil's best player which shows how bad they actuallt were. Douglas Costa was their best player since getting on, though.

monster09
07 Jul 18, 09:25
:lol:

ADRossi
07 Jul 18, 09:27
Fellaini had a very good game, just won possession so many times and proved why he should start for Belgium


Fellaini was in fact Belgium's worst player.

:lol:

monster09
07 Jul 18, 09:29
:lol:

Not surprising :lol:

ADRossi
07 Jul 18, 09:30
I just found the contrast of the two posts hilarious, that's all. I only watched ten minutes or so of the game.

Ziyad
07 Jul 18, 09:43
Miranda was a beast for keeping Lukaku under control. He had him all the way in the second half it was nice to watch. Him along with Cou and Costa when he came in were Brazil's best.
Still don't understand why Jesus was starting again and I hope to God that Casmeiro couldn't play rather than being benched for this one.

monster09
07 Jul 18, 09:46
Miranda was a beast for keeping Lukaku under control. He had him all the way in the second half it was nice to watch. Him along with Cou and Costa when he came in were Brazil's best.
Still don't understand why Jesus was starting again and I hope to God that Casmeiro couldn't play rather than being benched for this one.

Casemiro was suspended because of 2 yellows.

brehme1989
07 Jul 18, 10:29
I just found the contrast of the two posts hilarious, that's all. I only watched ten minutes or so of the game.

Well, one person says "Fellaini had a good game and shows why he should start for Belgium". Let's ignore that Belgium also has players like Nainggolan...
The other person says what Fellaini did all game long with more than just a random fucking phrase that means nothing. Anyone who watched the game knows that Fellaini was one of the worst performers for Belgium. He was lucky that he had to face Paulinho and Fernandinho who managed to be even worse.

Anyone else noticed how atrocious the touches Lukaku made in that second goal? He literally lost the ball three times and had to change his direction to keep up with it but no one was around to stop him so it led to an easy counter. He saved his only good touch for last, just before the crucial tackle. Good play by Lukaku of course, but he was lucky no one was around when the situation began. Also atrocious was the defending by Brazil in the midfield in that play.

Here's a good view of it. First touch, way off. Second touch, also off. Fourth touch, also off and felt accidental. If there was someone there, it'd stop the counter. Lukaku reacted very well after that, but it was terrible team defending in the middle by Brazil once again.
KTbhTbekpc8

Palacio
07 Jul 18, 11:09
Fellaini was in fact Belgium's worst player. All he did was block some shots, sometimes only because they hit him instead of the other two guys that were standing in front of the shot.
He lost possession more times than not and to top that, he even made a dummy after a Brazil parallel pass instead kf stopping it.. Brazil had an attack after that instead of Belgium getting a clear counter chance from the middle of the pitch :lol:
Hazard was the best player on the pitch. De Bruyne was the catalyst, but not the most dangerous player.

Miranda was arguably Brazil's best player which shows how bad they actuallt were. Douglas Costa was their best player since getting on, though.
What I don't understand though is many of Brazil players are slow, low work rate, low physicality and shorter than 180 cm (especially its strikers and full backs). If Brazil doesn't fix this soon, I don't think it has a chance of competing with European teams.

brehme1989
07 Jul 18, 11:35
What I don't understand though is many of Brazil players are slow, low work rate, low physicality and shorter than 180 cm (especially its strikers and full backs). If Brazil doesn't fix this soon, I don't think it has a chance of competing with European teams.

The Brazilian league has some of these players. But they're not that great. Brazil and Argentina have become breeding farms for European top teams. And now that they can poach kids from age 15 or 18 or 20, they don't really care. They produce players that Europe wants. Unless some favela kids start coming up again, there's no chance for Brazil to recover. They need to find their identity.

Instead they're creating a player pool for the Europe's richest teams and they're stuck with the mediocrity that Europe's modern game requires. And they're not going to be better than Europeans in their own game.

You can still see how a player like Neymar can be dominant (despite his theatrics, which are overstated but never cry wolf as I mentioned earlier) but there's not enough Neymars out there. They used to have 5-10 of them within each generation. Some didn't make it far due to mentality issues, but still. Now the most talented players from Brazil that can play at a top level are:
- Neymar
- Douglas Costa
- Philippe Coutinho
- Lucas Moura
- Willian

And Lucas Moura is someone you can expect to see retiring when he's 30 because he gave up the sport before even trying. And other than Neymar, no one else is a leading player of a strong team.

Brazil, like most countries and teams, are affected by this lack of foreigner rule in Europe. A Brazilian with a Spanish or Portuguese or Italian passport can play anywhere in Europe now. Before, he only could play in his 2nd nation and if they weren't good enough, they wouldn't go to a decent team. The football academies have taken over the world and everyone is mass produced. It's all generic now. Brazil is trying to do this as well and they cannot keep up. Too many teams, not enough families can afford this, limited chances for poor kids who may have more flair, talent. But it's not just that. The foreigners rule has allowed teams to be greedy. They can sign 6 Spanish players, 5 Portuguese players, 3 Italians, 4 French, 8 Swedish and then still have room for 3 or 5 non-EU players. So they go and sign Brazilians or Argentines or African players just because they can. Before that, they had to be very careful at who to sign. It'd be 3 or 5 of anyone of those 30ish players. So money wins and Brazilians don't really have the money to compete. Or the allure.

You could tell the difference between England, France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal, Holland, Russia, Sweden etc just by looking at them play. Now they're all trying to be the same. Some are the same. And instead of battling against this, Brazil is also trying to be part of this. You should always look to copy elements of someone else that may help you, like Brazil did with their defence and it's been fixed since 1990 (with the hiccup of 2014 with players like David freaking Luiz who was better at scoring goals than defending and fucking Dante starting).. But then you look at Brazil and it all feels wrong. Where is the #10? Where is the #9? The last great Brazil was in 2006 and everyone was out of form, with an overweight Ronaldo being the most dangerous player of the whole team. Adriano, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Robeto Carlos, Cafu, Emerson.. all out of form. It was pathetic really, you were expecting them to go very far or all the way.

So Brazil has stopped producing great strikers. Or great playmakers. They still have a few fancy players, but that's about it. Fancy, yet borderline useless. They used to have strikers that were Ballon D'Or level. They used to play with 2 up front. Now they even played a fucking 4-2-3-1... Same in 2014, with fucking Fred being their striker. At least Fred had a goal.

Brazil has guys like Hulk, Fred, Paulinho and Luiz Gustavo for years. That's a big problem. And the biggest problem is that their rivals are also suffering from this but at least they still have 2-3 world class players with each generation (Chile, Uruguay, Colombia etc). Brazil and Argentina used to have 6-7 of them, now they barely have 3.

Alex de Large
07 Jul 18, 11:40
Neymar overrated piece of crap

monster09
07 Jul 18, 11:47
Oh dear ignoring all the context, roles and then talking about left out players. :lol:

Fellaini's role is defensive, not something like Pirlo to play nice passes.

Palacio
07 Jul 18, 11:48
Neymar overrated piece of crap

Yesterday Coutino wasn't any better. I think he looked like Candreva.

monster09
07 Jul 18, 11:49
I just found the contrast of the two posts hilarious, that's all. I only watched ten minutes or so of the game.

It's fine though, EPL is shit and players are overrated. Nothing new, same boring.

brehme1989
07 Jul 18, 12:13
Oh dear ignoring all the context, roles and then talking about left out players. :lol:

Fellaini's role is defensive, not something like Pirlo to play nice passes.

So please tell us what did Fellaini do that was "very good".

- - - Updated - - -


Yesterday Coutino wasn't any better. I think he looked like Candreva.

Coutinho was really bad as the #10 yesterday. The Belgian defence wasn't really great and he's had that great lob to Renato Augusto but other than that, he was out of ideas and all he wanted to do was shoot the ball at a Belgian wall. There were like 5 Belgian players in front of him almost all the time when he had the ball outside the area and all the Brazilian players were left, right or behind him. And he still ends up shooting the ball at them, all the fucking time. Which is what guys like monster over here think of a "very good defensive effort" by individuals who really were bad that day. And it's also a reminder of what Coutinho would look like in Serie A.

Wobblz
07 Jul 18, 12:34
The Brazilian league has some of these players. But they're not that great. Brazil and Argentina have become breeding farms for European top teams. And now that they can poach kids from age 15 or 18 or 20, they don't really care. They produce players that Europe wants. Unless some favela kids start coming up again, there's no chance for Brazil to recover. They need to find their identity.

Instead they're creating a player pool for the Europe's richest teams and they're stuck with the mediocrity that Europe's modern game requires. And they're not going to be better than Europeans in their own game.

You can still see how a player like Neymar can be dominant (despite his theatrics, which are overstated but never cry wolf as I mentioned earlier) but there's not enough Neymars out there. They used to have 5-10 of them within each generation. Some didn't make it far due to mentality issues, but still. Now the most talented players from Brazil that can play at a top level are:
- Neymar
- Douglas Costa
- Philippe Coutinho
- Lucas Moura
- Willian

And Lucas Moura is someone you can expect to see retiring when he's 30 because he gave up the sport before even trying. And other than Neymar, no one else is a leading player of a strong team.

Brazil, like most countries and teams, are affected by this lack of foreigner rule in Europe. A Brazilian with a Spanish or Portuguese or Italian passport can play anywhere in Europe now. Before, he only could play in his 2nd nation and if they weren't good enough, they wouldn't go to a decent team. The football academies have taken over the world and everyone is mass produced. It's all generic now. Brazil is trying to do this as well and they cannot keep up. Too many teams, not enough families can afford this, limited chances for poor kids who may have more flair, talent. But it's not just that. The foreigners rule has allowed teams to be greedy. They can sign 6 Spanish players, 5 Portuguese players, 3 Italians, 4 French, 8 Swedish and then still have room for 3 or 5 non-EU players. So they go and sign Brazilians or Argentines or African players just because they can. Before that, they had to be very careful at who to sign. It'd be 3 or 5 of anyone of those 30ish players. So money wins and Brazilians don't really have the money to compete. Or the allure.

You could tell the difference between England, France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal, Holland, Russia, Sweden etc just by looking at them play. Now they're all trying to be the same. Some are the same. And instead of battling against this, Brazil is also trying to be part of this. You should always look to copy elements of someone else that may help you, like Brazil did with their defence and it's been fixed since 1990 (with the hiccup of 2014 with players like David freaking Luiz who was better at scoring goals than defending and fucking Dante starting).. But then you look at Brazil and it all feels wrong. Where is the #10? Where is the #9? The last great Brazil was in 2006 and everyone was out of form, with an overweight Ronaldo being the most dangerous player of the whole team. Adriano, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Robeto Carlos, Cafu, Emerson.. all out of form. It was pathetic really, you were expecting them to go very far or all the way.

So Brazil has stopped producing great strikers. Or great playmakers. They still have a few fancy players, but that's about it. Fancy, yet borderline useless. They used to have strikers that were Ballon D'Or level. They used to play with 2 up front. Now they even played a fucking 4-2-3-1... Same in 2014, with fucking Fred being their striker. At least Fred had a goal.

Brazil has guys like Hulk, Fred, Paulinho and Luiz Gustavo for years. That's a big problem. And the biggest problem is that their rivals are also suffering from this but at least they still have 2-3 world class players with each generation (Chile, Uruguay, Colombia etc). Brazil and Argentina used to have 6-7 of them, now they barely have 3.

Wow, where to begin. Favela kids, "the mediocrity that Europe's modern game requires", more players playing in Europe yet Brazilians are hurt cause they somehow produce less talent this way, "generic" players!?

It's just the game has changed - better academies, better coaching, better players everywhere you look. There are no one-dimensional poachers now, or lazy creative AMs that do nothing else than through balls and just exist on the pitch to do solely that. Those aren't needed cause they're inadequate. This is why the best midfielders can do everything - attack, defend, pass, run non-stop; goalkeepers are now required to have good footwork and even be able to spread the ball, wingers are expected to help out in defense, strikers are expected to be able to combine with other players and set up goals as well, defensive midfielders are expected to be able to make a through ball and so on.

There are no shitty roll-over teams anymore, quality is just higher in 2018 than it was ten or twenty years ago. This is why Iceland can get a draw against Argentina, packed full of talent. It's just that talent isn't that important anymore, all players are "good" nowadays - physically, tactically, mentally, technically. Discipline, teamwork and intelligent coaching differentiate good teams from mediocre ones.

Coaches are better equipped - they have superior data gathering tools (like the bras players wear), superior video capture, archiving and analysis; superior statistical analysis; superior fitness and coaching staff, superior training grounds etc. Kids from favelas will do shit when they measure up against a well-prepared academy product, yeah they might have some outrageous innate talent, but only that leads you nowhere in today's game.

This is why Pele or Maradona simply can't be better than the best modern day players, this is a laughable presumption. Literally, every OTHER player right now that plays with or against Messi or CR is better. It's an entirely different playing field than it was. This is why you can't just rely on pure talent anymore like many of the past stars did. If you would bring prime Maradona to EPL now he would be nullified instantly. He would still be an amazing player, but he would find it very hard to do outrageous stuff. The gap has been significantly closed between an average and an extraordinary player.

You're saying Brazil used to have 5-10 great players each generation, then you're going ahead and listing five super talented attackers they have yourself. And there are also Miranda, Casemiro, Firmino, Alisson, Marcelo... Again, it's not about players, it's always been about how those players work as a team, especially in international tournaments.

Brazil that "stopped producing great strikers" - there aren't many great out and out "strikers" in today's game anyway. This shit is cyclical and random. Where's all the great Italian players I might ask, where's all the amazing Dutch players? And again, Brazil has a pretty amazing squad, it's not about that. Same goes for Argentina, but they clearly suffer from other factors, such as their corrupt FA, bad influences, internal fighting and inadequate coaching.

Anyway, it's a very complicated matter, but to simplify things - Brazil just aren't currently among the top teams and it's not a matter of some conspiracy bullshit you're trying to make it out to be.

brehme1989
07 Jul 18, 13:03
Anyway, it's a very complicated matter, but to simplify things - Brazil just aren't currently among the top teams and it's not a matter of some conspiracy bullshit you're trying to make it out to be.

Where did I say there's a conspiracy involved? I said money is involved. Brazil is trying to copy Europe. Europe as a whole has stopped breeding great talents in 15-20 years. The most talented kids usually give up the game because they're not physically strong enough. You want to call this "progress" or "the game has changed" all you want. There's no conspiracy, where do you come up with this shit..? Name me the most talented European players that came out in the last 10 years please. Don't talk to me about career success, or what their teams won, or whatever. Individual talent. It's not that hard. I said Mbappe is much more talented than Henry and people were like "Henry won everything". Who the fuck compared trophy cabinets? Sorry for the rant, but I'm just preparing you to give an answer to what is asked instead of what you'd like to be asked. So I repeat, a list of the MOST TALENTED players from Europe in the last 10 years. And I don't want to see names like Robben here, I want players that graduated from academies in the last decade.

It's not "better academies". It's academies full stop. The best talents in Europe still come from places like Croatia or the Balkans in general. They don't learn how to play in football academies, they watch great players and emulate them on the streets. The new generation learns "proper" football at academies so they are indeed generic. Everyone wants to follow the Spanish or Dutch model. So the rich Spanish teams get to produce technically precise players whilst Germans, who copied the Dutch model and have more money to polish it, have created their own generation.

All these players are fairly the same though. They're not carbon copies, but they're the best next thing. You rarely see individual brilliance any more. That's what Brazil was good at. And the "favela kid" statement was not an insult of any sort, it's just how things are. Poor neighbourhoods usually breed most of the best sports people. Football academies are a good thing for a society, but not really that great for the sporting spectacle.

People go 'wow' over a trivela or a 360 roulette ffs that occurs once every 15 games. We used to see amazing things multiple times in almost every game. That's why teams like Brazil need to go back to their own identity. The 'joga bonito' mentality.

Also, I didn't list 5 "super talented attackers". I listed their fucking downfall. If Coutinho, Willian and Douglas Costa are amongst the most talented players in the generation, you're screwed. Also, Brazil always played with 2 strikers up front. Now there's really no one to pick from.

firmino
07 Jul 18, 13:05
I guess less talented teams have figured out how to limit a better opponent. In terms of skills and technique, Brazil is by far still the best team. The real, atrocious mistake they made was let Diego Costa slip away. That was unforgivable. He felt not considered and switched to Spain

ADRossi
07 Jul 18, 15:07
Lukaku's first touch, and touch in general, is notoriously terrible. Not surprising.

Palacio
07 Jul 18, 15:10
Lukaku's first touch, and touch in general, is notoriously terrible. Not surprising.

He is used as a distraction by Belgium.

Wobblz
07 Jul 18, 17:24
Where did I say there's a conspiracy involved? I said money is involved. Brazil is trying to copy Europe. Europe as a whole has stopped breeding great talents in 15-20 years. The most talented kids usually give up the game because they're not physically strong enough. You want to call this "progress" or "the game has changed" all you want. There's no conspiracy, where do you come up with this shit..? Name me the most talented European players that came out in the last 10 years please. Don't talk to me about career success, or what their teams won, or whatever. Individual talent. It's not that hard. I said Mbappe is much more talented than Henry and people were like "Henry won everything". Who the fuck compared trophy cabinets? Sorry for the rant, but I'm just preparing you to give an answer to what is asked instead of what you'd like to be asked. So I repeat, a list of the MOST TALENTED players from Europe in the last 10 years. And I don't want to see names like Robben here, I want players that graduated from academies in the last decade.

It's not "better academies". It's academies full stop. The best talents in Europe still come from places like Croatia or the Balkans in general. They don't learn how to play in football academies, they watch great players and emulate them on the streets. The new generation learns "proper" football at academies so they are indeed generic. Everyone wants to follow the Spanish or Dutch model. So the rich Spanish teams get to produce technically precise players whilst Germans, who copied the Dutch model and have more money to polish it, have created their own generation.

All these players are fairly the same though. They're not carbon copies, but they're the best next thing. You rarely see individual brilliance any more. That's what Brazil was good at. And the "favela kid" statement was not an insult of any sort, it's just how things are. Poor neighbourhoods usually breed most of the best sports people. Football academies are a good thing for a society, but not really that great for the sporting spectacle.

People go 'wow' over a trivela or a 360 roulette ffs that occurs once every 15 games. We used to see amazing things multiple times in almost every game. That's why teams like Brazil need to go back to their own identity. The 'joga bonito' mentality.

Also, I didn't list 5 "super talented attackers". I listed their fucking downfall. If Coutinho, Willian and Douglas Costa are amongst the most talented players in the generation, you're screwed. Also, Brazil always played with 2 strikers up front. Now there's really no one to pick from.

I won't list any players man. Europe has stopped breeding talents in the last 20 years?! What's your point here? There are no amazing footballers anymore? :yao: Or that the truly great ones all "played on the street"?

I live in the fucking Balkans, you think there are no academies here? It's not like we're living in Sub-Saharan Africa, hell, those guys have academies as well I'm sure.

You're a romantic I get that, please just don't lose connection with reality.

-

Roulettes and fancy dribbling are party tricks in football. If you do that shit in a professional match and fail a couple of times in a row you'll eat bench, It's a competitive sport for fucks sake. That was the case with many youngsters that tried to impress here at Inter of all places.

If you're into joga bonito so much go watch futsal. Trivela, there's plenty of players that can do it, Nainggolan is one. It's not some "lost knowledge" that died out with the ancient greats.

But yeah, just look a Quaresma, all the trivela shots and roulettes you'll ever need - still a mediocre player for a competitive side. He can get away with that shit in Turkey or Dubai, even Portugal all he wants, but not on top level.

-

If you think Coutinho, Willian or Douglas Costa aren't talented enough then that's your problem. And their talents have nothing to do with the fact that the team as a whole isn't good enough a unit.

brehme1989
07 Jul 18, 17:42
I didn't say there aren't any academies in the Balkans. Fuck, I'm a Balkanite too :lol:

I said that it's the one place that still produces players outside of academies. Sure, they have to get into a team at some point, but if you've lived elsewhere you'd see that football is relatively dead outside of football academies. People 'live' football through playing in a set, club-run environment, through video games, through the internet (social media etc) and by watching some popular leagues or teams. That's about it.

You go to these countries and you see kids playing in the streets still. That's where you're going to learn how to be different. And that's why Croatia is the best talent pool in Europe, albeit a very small one.

As for those players, they aren't talented enough to be the top talents of Brazil. That's a historic fact.

[I cannot believe this is a discussion I'm having with someone's whose listed favorite player is Roberto Baggio]

Wobblz
07 Jul 18, 17:58
I'm not arguing with what you say. I'm arguing that things have changed. Yeah, football is much more robotic nowadays, fantasista type of players are literally dying out, etc. but this is how it is.

From what you said I gathered that you want the old days to come back somehow, but we are well beyond the point of no return.

brehme1989
07 Jul 18, 17:59
I'm not arguing with what you say. I'm arguing that things have changed. Yeah, football is much more robotic nowadays, fantasista type of players are literally dying out, etc. but this is how it is.

Exactly. And I'm saying I'm not fine with it and it's dreadful to watch :)

Wobblz
07 Jul 18, 18:15
Exactly. And I'm saying I'm not fine with it and it's dreadful to watch :)

I know that feel bro.

Okay, I'm curious, who's your favourite modern-day player?

brehme1989
07 Jul 18, 18:22
I know that feel bro.

Okay, I'm curious, who's your favourite modern-day player?

There isn't one that I'd say is my favorite. Outside Inter players and using mostly forwards (I like guys like Godin and Casemiro but yeah), I can say that I like watching guys like Cavani, Hazard, Mbappe, Insigne, Sane, Milinkovic-Savic, Neymar, Luis Suarez, Messi and de Bruyne. A few more for sure but can't recall now. Can't say I have a favorite. Can't really say that about an Inter player, but then again, Skriniar came to our lives :)

Zoro
07 Jul 18, 20:05
Anyone else noticed how atrocious the touches Lukaku made in that second goal? He literally lost the ball three times and had to change his direction to keep up with it but no one was around to stop him so it led to an easy counter. He saved his only good touch for last, just before the crucial tackle. Good play by Lukaku of course, but he was lucky no one was around when the situation began. Also atrocious was the defending by Brazil in the midfield in that play.

Here's a good view of it. First touch, way off. Second touch, also off. Fourth touch, also off and felt accidental. If there was someone there, it'd stop the counter. Lukaku reacted very well after that, but it was terrible team defending in the middle by Brazil once again.

Completely agree with this part. I have a lot of Belgian friends in a group chat and I'm obviously supporting them, but his touches were shit. They said that they didn't care cause goal happened and I was the only one that mentioned the shit touches. But I say a better team defensively and that wasn't a goal. Still happy with the result though

J..
07 Jul 18, 20:55
Coaches are better equipped - they have superior data gathering tools (like the bras players wear), superior video capture, archiving and analysis; superior statistical analysis; superior fitness and coaching staff, superior training grounds etc. Kids from favelas will do shit when they measure up against a well-prepared academy product, yeah they might have some outrageous innate talent, but only that leads you nowhere in today's game.

Great post. The reason to why Germany came back strongly after their huge disappointment back in 2002 was due to the massively investment from the German FA in nationwide training facilities. An overall philosophy in which you developed the players to be effective in the exact same system has benefitted them a lot.

The same goes for Belgium. Their golden generation is not due to luck but because of a well organized system. This Guardian article sums it up briefly. https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jun/06/belgium-blueprint-gave-birth-golden-generation-world-cup-

Talking about video capturing. I saw this article recently about the video wall Hoffenheims coach Nagelsmann has got constructed for training sessions. Even the drills in the training schedules are recorded and briefed now. https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/Bundesliga/hoffenheim-coach-julian-nagelsmann-introduces-videowall-to-revolutionise-training-454562.jsp

Great teams depended on talent back in the days but now it is more due to effective youth development. Talent isn't that important today as before which means great individual performances do not happen as often.

wera
10 Jul 18, 10:23
Luckily I found a gif of this

http://media.giphy.com/media/Wx9wYJ3HzWJP2z5DWo/giphy.gif

Pajo
10 Jul 18, 10:25
Hazard is very intelligent player. VERY. One of the smartest and most creative player on earth. That move was simply spectacular.

Native
10 Jul 18, 10:42
I've found Hazard pretty underwhelming all tournament. The Belgian player that surprised / impressed me the most is Meunier.

Dylan
12 Jul 18, 23:22
I don't watch Man City very often, what is it that Fernandinho does?

wicked wizard
13 Jul 18, 00:55
Luckily I found a gif of this

http://media.giphy.com/media/Wx9wYJ3HzWJP2z5DWo/giphy.gifDecent bit of play what's the big deal?. Hazard has got to be the most overrated player on earth

Dylan
13 Jul 18, 01:46
Name 3 wingers better than him that aren't Neymar or Messi playing on the wing.

If he gets the big money move to Madrid then I think he can explode to the top tier of players. Chelsea isn't the place for him. He's a great dribbler and I think he has the talent to become world class, he's not a brainless head down - dribble hard type of winger.

Candreva Crosses
13 Jul 18, 01:52
Decent bit of play what's the big deal?. Hazard has got to be the most overrated player on earth

He makes some nice dribbles and all of the sudden he is the new Ronaldo.

Dylan
13 Jul 18, 01:57
He makes some nice dribbles and all of the sudden he is the new Ronaldo.

What? Hazard was the "flash in the pan dribbler talent" maybe 3 years ago, he's consistently one of the top attackers in football today.

monster09
13 Jul 18, 03:58
I don't watch Man City very often, what is it that Fernandinho does?

He is very good for them, they usually play 4-1-4-1 formation with Fernandinho as DM, KdB and Silva as AMs. Fernandinho is good defensively and moves the ball quicker, he covers lot of ground too. Pep system also helps him.

Before Pep, when he joined City he used to play as box to box, but now he plays deeper. He isn't all that great, he is for sure looks good because of Pep's system.

brehme1989
13 Jul 18, 08:25
I don't watch Man City very often, what is it that Fernandinho does?

Runs after loose balls or loose opposition players. If successful, passes to de Bruyne (or David Silva).

Candreva Crosses
13 Jul 18, 14:09
What? Hazard was the "flash in the pan dribbler talent" maybe 3 years ago, he's consistently one of the top attackers in football today.

Where was he the season Mourinho failed or this season with Conte? Sure, he is a good attacker but can you rate him as one of the best? I wouldn't choose him if I had other options, didn't someone say Chelsea wanted 300M euro?

I'd never go for him.

wera
13 Jul 18, 14:34
Hazard is one of the best and he showed that this World Cup as well.

Candreva Crosses
14 Jul 18, 03:01
Hazard is one of the best and he showed that this World Cup as well.

Yeah, clearly showed it by being in the finals.

wera
14 Jul 18, 03:57
Only space for two teams in the finals. Better say Messi and CR are not good either then, when u r at it.

Zoro
14 Jul 18, 05:04
Only space for two teams in the finals. Better say Messi and CR are not good either then, when u r at it.

Tbf both were trash bar Ronaldo in the Spain game.