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Howl
14 Jun 13, 01:26
lol, now he looks like even more of a fucking twat

http://img.modernghana.com/thumb.aspx?img=XGltYWdlc1xjb250ZW50XDg1NXpsYXRhbml icmFoaW1vdmljYXJhc2VzZXNjaGV2ZXV4NjUweDAxMzAweDIxM i5qcGd8NzUwfDYvMTQvMjAxMw==

Bergkamp
14 Jun 13, 02:14
of course one valid opinion, but like i said, the fact remains that kaka wasnt offloaded by real madrid 1 year later at a 40 million loss. for this very reason, ibra will go down as one of the biggest flops in history, for me.

Personally in terms of biggest flops, I do feel there's no way Ibra could be a worse flop than Torres or Kaka though, who would want to buy Torres for anything now? or Kaka? For me, Shevchenko, Torres, Kaka were bigger flops than Ibra.

Fitzy
14 Jun 13, 02:45
lol, now he looks like even more of a fucking twat

http://img.modernghana.com/thumb.aspx?img=XGltYWdlc1xjb250ZW50XDg1NXpsYXRhbml icmFoaW1vdmljYXJhc2VzZXNjaGV2ZXV4NjUweDAxMzAweDIxM i5qcGd8NzUwfDYvMTQvMjAxMw==

Looks like he's balding.

Wallace
14 Jun 13, 06:04
Meh no biggie, the guys rich enough to do a hair transplant every week.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Hasan
03 Jul 13, 09:25
No one else on any top 10 list represents such a loss. The only one who even comes CLOSE is Andy Carroll.

Hahhaah, Ibra - Caroll compresion is too much. Barca would never sold Ibra that he didn't attacked Guardiola and he would score 20 + in league for sure that Guardiola didn't changed formation and , after incident, benched him.

Guy isn't schoolboy and I respect that, you should too because he brougth trophies and money to our team.

Like he said in his biography, he used to change schools, homes, friends so it's nothing for him to change a club. Fact is that he has done his job here like noone before him (gave us results and record transfer fee) and it's disrespectfull to compare him with Carol.

KevinB
03 Jul 13, 13:27
But it's respectfull to say he's a cunt nevertheless

.h.
03 Jul 13, 13:31
Hahhaah, Ibra - Caroll compresion is too much. Barca would never sold Ibra that he didn't attacked Guardiola and he would score 20 + in league for sure that Guardiola didn't changed formation and , after incident, benched him.

Guy isn't schoolboy and I respect that, you should too because he brougth trophies and money to our team.

Like he said in his biography, he used to change schools, homes, friends so it's nothing for him to change a club. Fact is that he has done his job here like noone before him (gave us results and record transfer fee) and it's disrespectfull to compare him with Carol.

and yet the fact remains

the loss barca will take on ibrahimovic is twice the loss liverpool make on carroll

monster09
03 Jul 13, 13:38
Zidane was signed for 60 plus Million and then retired which means Madrid lost 60 Million :troll:

Starmo4
08 Jul 13, 20:55
http://s8.postimg.org/k0z5jijx1/1000376_586552251388838_1059688797_n.jpg

emcct
19 Jul 13, 08:38
With the latest rumor that he may go to Napoli.. I just wish to predict Zlatans words if he joins..

Ibrahimovic: "It's been my childhood dream to play for Napoli"

or

Ibrahimovic: "Finally here!"

Fitzy
19 Jul 13, 13:19
If he went there they'd be serious Scudetto challengers.

interista4
19 Jul 13, 13:24
And we will be barely CL spot challengers :yao:
Unless...

rockball
19 Jul 13, 13:24
That would be a great deal for them. Zlatan has nowhere to go really. Mancity have spent on Jovetic and Negredo. Chelsea need a striker, but they are more after Rooney. Madrid aren't moving for him. Napoli could be his last reasonable club and another one to win a title at.

ScottishInterista
25 Jul 13, 14:32
That would be what, his 13629382628th Scudetto?

Nyall
25 Jul 13, 21:23
If Napoli were to sign Ibra for say a 25 million dollar fee that would be a freaking amazing deal and would make them Serie A contenders, on par with Juventus..

Ffi201zi002tlis
28 Jul 13, 06:42
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/sites/default/files/u39/174556914.jpg

:yao:

Alan
28 Jul 13, 12:24
Looking good :notbad:

Guney
28 Jul 13, 14:40
Branca will be banging him later

Mino
29 Jul 13, 05:07
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/sites/default/files/u39/174556914.jpg

:yao:

http://www.lessentiel.lu/dyim/cc5078/B.M600,1000/images/content/1/5/3/15356751/5/topelement.jpg

Bergpavian
29 Jul 13, 12:11
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/sites/default/files/u39/174556914.jpg

:yao:

God, I really thought it was photoshopped ... :yao:

Int3r
29 Jul 13, 12:51
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/sites/default/files/u39/174556914.jpg

:yao:

:awwyeah:

ForzaInterUSA
29 Jul 13, 13:04
Why the fuck is Ibra wearing a bra?

figer
29 Jul 13, 14:57
Most of the players wear these during preseason matches, it monitors their heart rate and tracks the distance they covered, providing trainers with vital information to help individualize workouts and make sure footballers aren’t overtrained, or are reaching their capacities properly.

shadowmoon
29 Jul 13, 15:23
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/sites/default/files/u39/174556914.jpg

:yao:
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.398010!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/alg-brandi-chastain-then-jpg.jpg

ibra was inspired by brandi chastain perhaps? she had the abs as well. :notbad:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ojq37O9EgSU/TPvBoKe0zSI/AAAAAAAAAkw/nYmPM8SgAxU/s320/Brandi%2BChastain.jpg

Guney
05 Aug 13, 20:32
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BQ7n3FMCIAAcQIg.jpg:large

Some football fact account tweeted this, immediatly unfollowed because it's false information.

thatdude
06 Aug 13, 00:55
It's half right. He was a Fenemeno supporter.

Guney
06 Aug 13, 10:23
It's half right. He was a Fenemeno supporter.
That's right, but why did he leave Ajax for Rube then? His book stated that Rube were at that time one of the biggest teams of Europe. He's still a cunt though.

Still waiting for this to happen

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BQ1K23DCUAANVDr.jpg:large

Guney
03 Oct 13, 14:35
Happy birthday you fuck :work:

Dylan
03 Oct 13, 18:45
Happy Birthday Ibracadabra!


Still a motherfucking boss.

jmaster
03 Oct 13, 19:35
Happy Birthday Ibracadabra!


Still a motherfucking boss.

reported

Dylan
03 Oct 13, 20:33
Say what you want. He doesn't give a fuck and he knows it. Dude's a definition of a boss.

:D

jmaster
03 Oct 13, 20:46
expecting a permaban for the irish dude

Dylan
03 Oct 13, 21:03
Keep waiting. Me and Il Nose will keep on being bosses.

jmaster
03 Oct 13, 21:19
Keep waiting. Me and Il Nose will keep on being bosses.

i'll be posting on FIF though :D

Bob Sacamano
07 Oct 13, 22:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ySDaveuwLw

I study French and i find this funny.

DARi0
11 Oct 13, 05:35
Why the fuck is Ibra wearing a bra?
iBra :awyeah:

He bossed all the leagues he played in, what else do you want from him?

Ok, except winning UCL :trolldad:

Bergpavian
12 Oct 13, 08:39
One assist and one goal ('88) against Austria yesterday. Because of him Sweden and not Austria is going to World Cup Play off ... :-(


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVsyOTmMXcc

Trublue
15 Oct 13, 18:03
One assist and one goal ('88) against Austria yesterday. Because of him Sweden and not Austria is going to World Cup Play off ... :-(


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVsyOTmMXcc


I feel sorry for Austria, would have loved to see them at the World Cup.

But Ibrahimovic is great, such a good player.

rockball
16 Oct 13, 08:50
but not world class :troll: :browha:

Rimpel
19 Oct 13, 15:53
scored a magnificent goal, got no link though :P

edit: nvm found one:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llhlckiTJDM

rockball
20 Oct 13, 06:37
Only Ibra can do that. Fantastic!

Sam_JZ#4
20 Oct 13, 09:41
Although I hate the player, but i should admit that he's a world class.

KevinB
20 Oct 13, 11:56
Same. He's a cunt. A massive cunt. But what a player he is

interista4
20 Oct 13, 12:23
Definitely a cunt but anyone saying he's not among the best players needs a reality check. Messi>Ronaldo>Ibra for me

Dylan
20 Oct 13, 12:42
I don't ever wanna see this guy drop-off or retire to be honest. He's unique. That size, strength, technical ability and putting it all together. What a fucking boss.

Pimpin
20 Oct 13, 12:55
typical balkanoid :P

wicked wizard
20 Oct 13, 12:59
the goal was sik. If messi or ronaldo scored that the world would go crazy hes easily one of the best players i have ever seen.

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the goal was sik. If messi or ronaldo scored that the world would go crazy hes easily one of the best players i have ever seen.

Dylan
20 Oct 13, 16:04
I think I heard somewhere that Henry did ballet as a kid? Is that BS? Either way I know Zlatan did Karate and shit, all footballers should do it, the flexibility pays off big time.

AbdiWirajaya
20 Oct 13, 22:05
I think I heard somewhere that Henry did ballet as a kid? Is that BS? Either way I know Zlatan did Karate and shit, all footballers should do it, the flexibility pays off big time.

Tae Kwon Do:fixed: :thumbsup:

qb4ever_2k
20 Oct 13, 22:08
I don't ever wanna see this guy drop-off or retire to be honest. He's unique. That size, strength, technical ability and putting it all together. What a fucking boss.

He can retire in peace now, we got Belfodil.

The Wall
22 Oct 13, 12:20
No one comes even close to producing wow goals to this guy and he does it in bunches career wise. Maybe, but just maybe Henry comes close in my time actively watching football. Ronaldo was exciting as hell also but for some other reasons.

Seriously, his highlight mixes will be ridiculous when all is set and done.

wera
22 Oct 13, 21:20
I hope he will go MLS in three years or something like that =)

Devious
22 Oct 13, 21:26
I dont know guys, all this shit seems pretty normal to me, I used to score goals like these when I was a kid.

World class my ass.

Wallace
22 Oct 13, 23:33
Yeah, in your dreams.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Rimpel
23 Oct 13, 19:47
Hattrick and another insane goal again, ridiculous :lol:

armendsh
23 Oct 13, 20:00
Hattrick and another insane goal again, ridiculous :lol:


I dont know guys, all this shit seems pretty normal to me, I used to score goals like these when I was a kid.

World class my ass.
Everything that ibrahimovic can do ... DEVIOUS DOES BETTER :closeenough:

wera
23 Oct 13, 20:04
http://i.imgur.com/im1NpZg.gif

Rimpel
23 Oct 13, 20:09
http://i.imgur.com/im1NpZg.gif

nice finish on the second goal too:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUOcqq63GHQ

Howl
23 Oct 13, 20:39
Hate him as a person, trying hard to hate him as a player but it's not happening

The shit this cunt does is crazy. Still though fuck him!

Dylan
23 Oct 13, 20:57
I don't see how you can hate him as a person? Dislike fine. The guy donates massively to charity. He's basically an open mercenary, you can't bitch at him for joining Milan after you were so happy to have him an Inter after Juve.

Edward
23 Oct 13, 21:28
i've started reading his book. and my word, he seems like a bit of a trogladite (mentally).

Dylan
23 Oct 13, 21:39
Trogladite?

sanka
23 Oct 13, 21:41
Fuckin brilliant.. Where's that man who was saying he isn't world class? browha was that you? I don't remember.. lolz

wicked wizard
23 Oct 13, 21:46
i think hes actually better than messi or the same at least. Whats not to like about him him hes a big headed but in a funny good way and if i was that talented i think i would be too

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i think hes actually better than messi or the same at least. Whats not to like about him him hes a big headed but in a funny good way and if i was that talented i think i would be too

.h.
23 Oct 13, 21:54
Fuckin brilliant.. Where's that man who was saying he isn't world class? browha was that you? I don't remember.. lolz

still here and i still stand by it. A scorer of great goals does not make someone a great goal scorer. Ibrahimovic is a cut above 'a very good player' but he isn't world class. World class is the guy everyone in the team looks to, to carry - and deliver - the team through competitive times. The guy who will put in a sublime game in a final, rather than disappear in the final. A guy who will play better than everyone else in the CL semis, rather than worse.

Waiting to see him do even 1% of this shit in an important match... He's stepped it up since he was at inter - at least now he's scoring in european games - but he wont carry PSG through the CL, now or ever.

Big game bottler, always has been, always will be.

Dylan
23 Oct 13, 21:57
The definition of World Class is extremely loose. Some people would only rank 2-3 active players today as world class, others would have a whole XI.

.h.
23 Oct 13, 22:00
The definition of World Class is extremely loose. Some people would only rank 2-3 active players today as world class, others would have a whole XI.

I agree. It depends how one defines world class.

I personally consider it to be the players who are the best in the world at their position. It's not the best eleven, but rather, the people who are in the same league at the very top.

To that end, you can put someone like Falcao, Ronaldo, Messi... For example I would have had both Alves and Maicon (a while ago) as being world class..

Ibrahimovic for me, as a player (not technically, physically, or anything, but as a complete player) is not as good as Ronaldo or Messi.

Yes, he4 might have better technical skills and all that bullshit, but he doesn't have the delivery. He's not, has never been, and (probably) never will be the guy who leads the team. He puts his head down when things go badly. He's not a leader in that sense.


Reminds me of the quote comparing Recoba to Raul. Very applicable in this case.

KevinB
23 Oct 13, 22:04
still here and i still stand by it. A scorer of great goals does not make someone a great goal scorer. Ibrahimovic is a cut above 'a very good player' but he isn't world class. World class is the guy everyone in the team looks to, to carry - and deliver - the team through competitive times. The guy who will put in a sublime game in a final, rather than disappear in the final. A guy who will play better than everyone else in the CL semis, rather than worse.

Waiting to see him do even 1% of this shit in an important match... He's stepped it up since he was at inter - at least now he's scoring in european games - but he wont carry PSG through the CL, now or ever.

Big game bottler, always has been, always will be.

He carries em pretty well now. Big difference to watch PSG with or without Ibra though.

He's worldclass to me though.

How do you consider Falcao and Cavani then?

.h.
23 Oct 13, 22:07
He carries em pretty well now. Big difference to watch PSG with or without Ibra though.

He's worldclass to me though.

How do you consider Falcao and Cavani then?

And Lee Trundle could carry a conference team. I expect a world class player to deliver consistently at the top level. Ibra has NEVER done that in the CL. Not at Juve, not in Inter, not in Barca, not Milan.

With Falcao, it's a little harder I guess. He's never played for a truly top club - but having carried teams to two consecutive Europa League wins, I think that's pretty impressive. His move to Monaco, though, is disappointing as I was hoping that to be the real test of whether or not he was TRULY world class. Falcao SHOULD have been world class - and hopefully he will still move to Real (for example) to show his true potential.


Cavani, no. He's got the potential to be a world class player, but I'd like to see him continue to do it in the CL (for example) before I commit to that.

Scottish_one
23 Oct 13, 22:08
i don't hate him, i do dislike him after the derby when he gestured to the Curva...however there are very few players i enjoy watching play so much

better being a Mercenary than still be at Juve or Milan, oh and he kicked up the shit at Barca :D

.h.
23 Oct 13, 22:10
i don't hate him, i do dislike him after the derby when he gestured to the Curva...however there are very few players i enjoy watching play so much

better being a Mercenary than still be at Juve or Milan, oh and he kicked up the shit at Barca :D

Oh I agree, I do like watching him play, his interpretation on the game and so on is pretty fantastic.

But world class, he is not. At least not in my definition.

wicked wizard
23 Oct 13, 22:15
end of the day ppl are always going to make excuses about him who dont like him. everyone knows hes one of the best strikers in the last decade.

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end of the day ppl are always going to make excuses about him who dont like him. everyone knows hes one of the best strikers in the last decade.

Fapuccino
23 Oct 13, 22:16
Lmao, Ibra is by far the best #9 in the world. Neither Falcao or Cavani are on his level.

He can score, create, is technical, physical. He's the perfect #9 and beyond.

Jane The Virgin
23 Oct 13, 22:17
i dont know how a interista can hate this guy...

literally he won us a scudetto. LITERALLY by himself.

browha can write a long post till next week, its browhas texts here againts ibra vs. ibra's actions in the field. we all know who wins that battle :D

Rimpel
23 Oct 13, 22:17
I agree. It depends how one defines world class.


He's not, has never been, and (probably) never will be the guy who leads the team. He puts his head down when things go badly. He's not a leader in that sense.


Ronaldo is much worse in this regard though so that's a pretty stupid thing to say.

Some people have something personal against him and that's fair tbh. He played for Bbilan and kissed the barca badge on his first day, both of which are shameful. But he's world class according to pretty much everyone today, that's just the truth. BTW, this debate is sooo 2010.

.h.
23 Oct 13, 22:20
end of the day ppl are always going to make excuses about him who dont like him. everyone knows hes one of the best strikers in the last decade.

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end of the day ppl are always going to make excuses about him who dont like him. everyone knows hes one of the best strikers in the last decade.

ya ya, bla bla bla

I think, using the example of Quaresma, we can agree that simply being technically brilliant isn't good enough to make one world class. Of course, Ibrahimovic is an awful lot better than Quaresma - no contest - but technique alone does not make you world class. You need to be a leader, who carries the team in tough times. You need to be the man people look to, for help...

Sadly, Zlatan is not that player. He does it in friendlies. He does it in easier games. But he's NEVER done that in a CL quarter final.

- - - Updated - - -


Ronaldo is much worse in this regard though so that's a pretty stupid thing to say.

You mean Ronaldo, the man who won the golden boot in the 2002 world cup?

:palm:

After the retarded shit you pulled in the Belfodil thread, I have no respect for you.

Rimpel
23 Oct 13, 22:25
ya ya, bla bla bla




You mean Ronaldo, the man who won the golden boot in the 2002 world cup?

:palm:

After the retarded shit you pulled in the Belfodil thread, I have no respect for you.

What does him winning the golden boot have to do with your statement?
Lmfao, are you holding an e-grudge against me? I have no idea what you're even talking about, you need to get laid. Badly.

.h.
23 Oct 13, 22:28
What does him winning the golden boot have to do with your statement?
Lmfao, are you holding an e-grudge against me? I have no idea what you're even talking about, you need to get laid. Badly.

Ronaldo WAS someone people looked to in times of trouble. He could single handedly pull out the magic in an important game to win it. There's no dispute about that.


No, I just find you pathetic and childish, the sort of moron who starts an argument then says something and doesn't back it up. I find it pathetic, childish, cowardly and stupid. Get caught out on retarded stuff you say and the spend the next 30 minutes posting 'LOLS IM SO BUSY I DONT HAVE TIME FOR THIS' like an idiotic 14 year old.

No respect for idiots like you at all.

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and PS if you dont remember, look at my sig - Most pathetic post of the year award.

It'll be immortalised there forever <3

wicked wizard
23 Oct 13, 22:28
you comparing him to Quaresma lool. there you go he hasent done this he hasent done that. how many league and champion leagues has ronaldon won since moving to real. and falco and cavani arnt no where near his level, the only player who compares is messi and thats because messi has been at such a good team.

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you comparing him to Quaresma lool. there you go he hasent done this he hasent done that. how many league and champion leagues has ronaldon won since moving to real. and falco and cavani arnt no where near his level, the only player who compares is messi and thats because messi has been at such a good team.

.h.
23 Oct 13, 22:31
you comparing him to Quaresma lool. there you go he hasent done this he hasent done that. how many league and champion leagues has ronaldon won since moving to real. and falco and cavani arnt no where near his level, the only player who compares is messi and thats because messi has been at such a good team.

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you comparing him to Quaresma lool. there you go he hasent done this he hasent done that. how many league and champion leagues has ronaldon won since moving to real. and falco and cavani arnt no where near his level, the only player who compares is messi and thats because messi has been at such a good team.

Falcao - at least - has carried his team to victories in Europe. First player - afaik - to win the Europa League back to back with two different teams. There's only one player whose done it in the CL, and that's Eto'o.

You clearly dont understand it, if you're talking about what people have won. I agree that ultimate success is also quite 'lucky' - but its not about the victory, it's about the path to victory. He's NOT the guy that people look at in the Quarters, Semis, or final. He never has been, and PROBABLY never will be (If this changes, I'll be happy to revise my opinion).

Messi's world class because people look for him in a match and he DELIVERS. People look for C Ronaldo because he knows how to score in a CL final.

Ibrahimovic is great in the mediocre-to-average matches. Once you step up the difficulty a bit more, he cant handle it. Or at least not consistently.

Rimpel
23 Oct 13, 22:34
Ronaldo WAS someone people looked to in times of trouble. He could single handedly pull out the magic in an important game to win it. There's no dispute about that.


No, I just find you pathetic and childish, the sort of moron who starts an argument then says something and doesn't back it up. I find it pathetic, childish, cowardly and stupid. Get caught out on retarded stuff you say and the spend the next 30 minutes posting 'LOLS IM SO BUSY I DONT HAVE TIME FOR THIS' like an idiotic 14 year old.

No respect for idiots like you at all.

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and PS if you dont remember, look at my sig - Most pathetic post of the year award.

It'll be immortalised there forever <3
Actually Ronaldo is pretty much known for putting "his head down when things go badly." So I have no idea what this has to with Ibra not being world class. And are you saying that Ibra never rises to the ocassion in an important game? Because that's just not true anymore either.

So mad, yet stupid enough to reply to every single post. Use the ignore function if you're that mad bub :lol:

.h.
23 Oct 13, 22:35
Actually Ronaldo is pretty much known for putting "his head down when things go badly." So I have no idea what this has to with Ibra not being world class. And are you saying that Ibra never rises to the ocassion in an important game? Because that's just not true anymore either.

So mad, yet stupid enough to reply to every single post. Use the ignore function if you're that mad bub :lol:

Not mad, I like calling pathetic idiots out.

Ronaldo carried PSV, Barca, and us. He did extremely well at Real too, but was harmed by the fact that they refused to sign defenders (luls) and sold Makelele.

Rimpel
23 Oct 13, 22:39
Not mad, I like calling pathetic idiots out.

Ronaldo carried PSV, Barca, and us. He did extremely well at Real too, but was harmed by the fact that they refused to sign defenders (luls) and sold Makelele.
Don't worry I think most people here think that you're the idiot.

Huh, Ibra's carried pretty much every club he's even been in though.

wicked wizard
23 Oct 13, 22:40
so him single handly winning inter the scudetto meens nothing but if he gets a few goals in the champion league he will be world class

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so him single handly winning inter the scudetto meens nothing but if he gets a few goals in the champion league he will be world class

.h.
23 Oct 13, 22:42
so him single handly winning inter the scudetto meens nothing but if he gets a few goals in the champion league he will be world class

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so him single handly winning inter the scudetto meens nothing but if he gets a few goals in the champion league he will be world class

Well, no, of course not. But if he STARTS to carry a team in the CL, then he starts working towards it. Like I said, I find Zlatan occupies an unusual space. He's in a league of his own, that's true, but its a league between Messi+Ronaldo, and the other 'very good' strikers. He's clearly a cut above someone like Falcao or Cavani, but he's not on the level of Messi or Ronaldo.

My point is that - and I've repeated this one fucking million times - he's not the player ANYONE will look to carry him in the CL semis, or quarters. He was a huge fail for Inter in the CL latter stages, and the only time he even came close to the later stages (Barca), he was a player people looked to pass AWAY from, rather than TO. That says it ALL.


Don't worry I think most people here think that you're the idiot.

Huh, Ibra's carried pretty much every club he's even been in though.

Yeah, which is why he's never even come CLOSE to winning the CL? Like I said, Lee Trundle could carry a shit side - I want to see them do it on the top level. And given the number of thanks I got, and the lack that you got, I think people would suggest au contrarie ;)

Ibra's never carried a team to a huge victory. He's carried them to league titles - and for that he deserves credit - but a lot of people can carry their team to a league title. Let's not forget, also, he plays in a lot of shitty leagues. He didnt carry Juve. He "carried" Inter when we had no fucking competition (really) to play against. The only time he really carried Inter in any difficulty was his last season.

He certainly didnt carry Barca... He DID carry Milan - granted...

Rimpel
23 Oct 13, 22:48
Yeah, which is why he's never even come CLOSE to winning the CL? Like I said, Lee Trundle could carry a shit side - I want to see them do it on the top level. And given the number of thanks I got, and the lack that you got, I think people would suggest au contrarie ;)
So you're only world class if you carry your side to the CL crown, the league doesn't count? Doesn't the league count as the top level? Also, a number of players throughout history would like to have a word with you.

Oh, you're still talking about your pathetic little e-grudge :lol: ? I was referring to this thread.

The Wall
23 Oct 13, 22:49
i think hes actually better than messi or the same at least. Whats not to like about him him hes a big headed but in a funny good way and if i was that talented i think i would be too

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i think hes actually better than messi or the same at least. Whats not to like about him him hes a big headed but in a funny good way and if i was that talented i think i would be too

Nah, he is not better than Messi but he is more exciting to watch. Messi is just too dominant at times and it made him boring to some extent.

But he is a world class player and has been for years.

.h.
23 Oct 13, 22:50
So you're only world class if you carry your side to the CL crown, the league doesn't count? A number of players throughout history would like to have a word with you.

Oh, you're still talking about your pathetic little e-grudge :lol: ? I was referring to this thread.

:palm:

Your inability to comprehend basic sentences is striking. Did you get a degree from the American University of London by any chance?

:palm:

Rimpel
23 Oct 13, 22:52
:palm:

Your inability to comprehend basic sentences is striking. Did you get a degree from the American University of London by any chance?

:palm:
No, Lund University in Sweden. Why so butthurt?`Just answer instead.

.h.
23 Oct 13, 22:53
No, Lund University in Sweden. Why so butthurt?`Just answer instead.

Oh I'm just surprised you actually went to an accredited university. I must remember that incase I ever have dumb kids.

wera
23 Oct 13, 22:57
Sadly, Zlatan is not that player. He does it in friendlies. He does it in easier games. But he's NEVER done that in a CL quarter final.


Why do you say that? I don't get it. When Inter played, he was the only player that needed to be extra covered.
Scoring 2 in London in quarter final in 09/10 in the first game isn't enough? Dude was magical that night.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjjK9VRLAU8



And last year PSG played against Barcelona, and it was two draws, Barcelona barely made it alive through that. Who was MVP? Ibra.

Rimpel
23 Oct 13, 22:57
Oh I'm just surprised you actually went to an accredited university. I must remember that incase I ever have dumb kids.

Pathetic. Whining about being immature and acting like a good debater then posting this? Completely dodging the subject now.

.h.
23 Oct 13, 23:01
Pathetic. Whining about being immature and acting like a good debater then posting this? Completely dodging the subject now.

Eh you brought it upon yourself.


To answer the question - which is only fuelled by your inability to comprehend what I said in the first place - it isn't about WINNING anything. It's about being the dependable guy people look to, to carry the team.

When the going gets tough, he puts his head down. He doesn't step up to the plate - like Zanetti, or Eto'o, or Milito. He puts his head down. His team mates pass to OTHER players, not him. He's not a world class player in mentality.



Why do you say that? I don't get it. When Inter played, he was the only player that needed to be extra covered.
Scoring 2 in London in quarter final in 09/10 in the first game isn't enough? Dude was magical that night.


And last year PSG played against Barcelona, and it was two draws, Barcelona barely made it alive through that. Who was MVP? Ibra.

I'm sorry, but one or two games over a 10? 12? year career isn't enough. Look at all the disappointments he had for example at Inter.... Remember the game against Liverpool? Or United? Or any of his Juventus CL games? In the CL latter stages, he has always been caught out (barring a couple of cases).



Like I said, if that changes, I will re-assess my opinion. But he's always failed to consistently deliver when the going gets tough.

wicked wizard
23 Oct 13, 23:03
@wall messi dominant and looks like a ps3 player but his team is all so dominant too hes not really the same for his nt team(even tho good) ppl tell me that ibra pretty much carrys a shit sweden team. i think when barca was unstopble if you swaped ibra for messi for ibrai think ibra would of got pretty much the same results

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@wall messi dominant and looks like a ps3 player but his team is all so dominant too hes not really the same for his nt team(even tho good) ppl tell me that ibra pretty much carrys a shit sweden team. i think when barca was unstopble if you swaped ibra for messi for ibrai think ibra would of got pretty much the same results

.h.
23 Oct 13, 23:05
carrys a shit sweden team?

to what? Not qualifying for the 2010 WC? only making the group stages of 2012, 2008, 2004?

To carry a team, you have to carry it to something...

Ed.
23 Oct 13, 23:06
I got what Browha meant.. Ibra has exceptional set skills that no one can deny his skills are high qualities but the fact still remains the same throughout his career that he most of the time has difficulties to be a big game changer. He is inconsistent and mostly in big matches he disappeared. Inter - Barcelona 2010.

.h.
23 Oct 13, 23:07
I got what Browha meant.. Ibra has exceptional set skills that no one can deny his skills are high qualities but the fact still remains the same throughout his career that he most of the time has difficulties to be a big game changer. He is inconsistent and mostly in big matches he disappeared. Inter - Barcelona 2010.

Thank you.

Granted I have quite a harsh definition of world class, but under my personal definition, he doesn't currently - nor has he ever - qualified.

Edward
23 Oct 13, 23:08
Trogladite?
troglodyte, i spelt it wrong. but a caveman, essentially

Dylan
23 Oct 13, 23:08
Earlier when you mentioned Dani Alves and Maicon, did you consider them world class?

wicked wizard
23 Oct 13, 23:10
ye but in your defamation of world class only messi fits that

.h.
23 Oct 13, 23:14
Earlier when you mentioned Dani Alves and Maicon, did you consider them world class?

At their prime, absolutely. Maicon really made a HUGE impact during our CL 2010 game. Alves obviously has always had a huge impact for the Barca side. I would say at their prime, they were both world class players, absolutely.

Alan
23 Oct 13, 23:22
carrys a shit sweden team?

to what? Not qualifying for the 2010 WC? only making the group stages of 2012, 2008, 2004?

To carry a team, you have to carry it to something...

:chan:

The Wall
23 Oct 13, 23:24
@wall messi dominant and looks like a ps3 player but his team is all so dominant too hes not really the same for his nt team(even tho good) ppl tell me that ibra pretty much carrys a shit sweden team. i think when barca was unstopble if you swaped ibra for messi for ibrai think ibra would of got pretty much the same results

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@wall messi dominant and looks like a ps3 player but his team is all so dominant too hes not really the same for his nt team(even tho good) ppl tell me that ibra pretty much carrys a shit sweden team. i think when barca was unstopble if you swaped ibra for messi for ibrai think ibra would of got pretty much the same results

Very debatable since those guys at Barcelona are taught to play in one way for their entire life. It's just way easier and natural for Messi than it would be for Ibrahimović if that team was built around him.

And Messi is just better, he does stuff that make a difference against anybody anywhere and you you always need your entire team to stop/slow down him. If you pay close attention, he is surrounded with multiple defenders pretty much all the time.

Ibrahimović doesn't have a skill that would demand such attention.

DIN011
23 Oct 13, 23:26
carrys a shit sweden team?

to what? Not qualifying for the 2010 WC? only making the group stages of 2012, 2008, 2004?

To carry a team, you have to carry it to something...

Carrying Sweden to the Euro's and to the WC play-offs is something tbh. That's how shit the squad is. Btw, Sweden got past the group stages in 2004 and 2008.

Rimpel
23 Oct 13, 23:28
Eh you brought it upon yourself.


To answer the question - which is only fuelled by your inability to comprehend what I said in the first place - it isn't about WINNING anything. It's about being the dependable guy people look to, to carry the team.

When the going gets tough, he puts his head down. He doesn't step up to the plate - like Zanetti, or Eto'o, or Milito. He puts his head down. His team mates pass to OTHER players, not him. He's not a world class player in mentality.





Don't worry dude, I don't care enough. It's not important enough for me to put in my sig and bring it up months after. "bu bu I have no respect for you ;(" :lol: I mean this place, various internet forums, is pretty much your whole life right?

But he has been dependable enough to carry multiple teams big sides like Juventus, Inter, Milan and PSG ito big league itles. You say a lot of people can carry their team to a league title, how many people in the history of Serie A have won as many titles as Ibra in a row (plus he carried his team in pretty much every season except his second season in Jube).

Oh and yeah, he definitely did not step up for us when pretty much everyone on our team was thinking of May 2002 and shitting their pants in the 2007/2008 season. He scored a brace to win the title for us after being subbed in with 10-20 minutes to spare. Our first scudetto on the pitch since 1988/1989, no pressure there.

edit: without point deducations I should add.

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Dylan
23 Oct 13, 23:32
At their prime, absolutely. Maicon really made a HUGE impact during our CL 2010 game. Alves obviously has always had a huge impact for the Barca side. I would say at their prime, they were both world class players, absolutely.

I don't see how under your definition that you can consider Alves to be WC and not Ibra. Were players looking to Alves? Did he drag his team through top, top games?

That's an issue I think, looking at Ibra's competition of Messi and Ronaldo is far better quality than that at fullback. The only other options challenging Alves were Lahm and Maicon (back then). Would you then say that prime Alves > Ibra?

.h.
23 Oct 13, 23:46
Don't worry dude, I don't care enough. It's not important enough for me to put in my sig and bring it up months after. "bu bu I have no respect for you ;(" :lol: I mean this place, various internet forums, is pretty much your whole life right?

But he has been dependable enough to carry multiple teams big sides like Juventus, Inter, Milan and PSG ito big league itles. You say a lot of people can carry their team to a league title, how many people in the history of Serie A have won as many titles as Ibra in a row (plus he carried his team in pretty much every season except his second season in Jube).

Oh and yeah, he definitely did not step up for us when pretty much everyone on our team was thinking of May 2002 and shitting their pants in the 2007/2008 season. He scored a brace to win the title for us after being subbed in with 10-20 minutes to spare. Our first scudetto on the pitch since 1988/1989, no pressure there.


Actually, we would have won the scudetto in 2007-2008 even without that brace. Had we lost the match, we would have won the scudetto anyway..

Also, you're ignoring the 06-07 scudetto, which we also won on the pitch. And dont give me BS about points lost that Milan had and shit - they were much further behind than any negative points would have made a difference for.


Of course not, thats why I put it in my sig. This is a discussion forum, and if you're only prepared to act like a childish twat, then you have no room to be on here.

He didnt carry Juventus to a single title. PSG - in a league of basically 1, changing now with Monaco - is not a big title. The one title he won with Milan was actually semi-impressive, but it wasnt jizzmatic. Remember, we had no-big-games Leonardo, and double brain fart Chivu on their side that season.

In 06/07 he had 1 more goal than Crespo. ONE MORE. 07/08 he had 4 more than Cruz - who knows what would have happened if we had another player instead of Zlatan on the ptich. 08-09 is the one season at Inter we can indisputably say he carried us - he truly did.

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I don't see how under your definition that you can consider Alves to be WC and not Ibra. Were players looking to Alves? Did he drag his team through top, top games?

That's an issue I think, looking at Ibra's competition of Messi and Ronaldo is far better quality than that at fullback. The only other options challenging Alves were Lahm and Maicon (back then). Would you then say that prime Alves > Ibra?

Well, of course it's hard to compare the players due to their positions. And of course as stated, my personal definition of 'world class' are players who are better than anyone else in their role. You have a real derth of quality, behind Maicon and Alves (perhaps Lahm as well) in the RB position - no one even really came close to touching them. And I use that same criteria, for example, for the strikers. No one is on a level to Messi and Ronaldo. Ibrahimovic is close, but behind.

It's that TOP tier of players I'm concerned with, as being world class. If there were 100 players who all played on a perfect inseparable par week in week out for 5 years, then you'd have 100 world class players. But as is, I dont see more than a couple in the striker role, really. I'd have to sit down and think about players one by one to be 100% sure, but no one hugely jumps out to me right now.

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in 04 sweden beat bulgaria 5-0, then drew with italy and denmark. Then Ibra missed a pen in the next round against the Netherlands (in the shootout, albeit) to go out. Not really carrying, imho

They got knocked out in 2008, behind Russia and Spain, and only 3 points above Greece. (unless Wikipedia is wrong?)

'12 he scored 2 goals but Sweden finished bottom of their group

Wallace
23 Oct 13, 23:47
He's above Falcao and Cavani, below Messi and Ronaldo.

And yet he's not world class.

DAT logic.

If you dont consider Falcao and Cavani as world class, then your definition of world class is practically different to everyone else's.

Perhaps consider inserting an extra category of absolute best for Messi and Ronaldo and relax the conditions for qualifying as a world class player.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

.h.
23 Oct 13, 23:51
He's above Falcao and Cavani, below Messi and Ronaldo.

And yet he's not world class.

DAT logic.

If you dont consider Falcao and Cavani as world class, then your definition of world class is practically different to everyone else's.

Perhaps consider inserting an extra category of absolute best for Messi and Ronaldo and relax the conditions for qualifying as a world class player.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

shrug, maybe my definition of world class is different to most people.

But I've clearly stated it repeatedly, and no one has yet really disagreed with it (except for wicked wizard).

There are a few definitions - granted. Best players in the world, players who are better than any of the competition, or the world's best XI. I've defined mine, and stated it, and explained it.

DIN011
23 Oct 13, 23:55
Actually, we would have won the scudetto in 2007-2008 even without that brace. Had we lost the match, we would have won the scudetto anyway..

Oh c'mon, that's only because Roma just lost all motivation after Ibra scored his 2nd. I watched that game on TV while streaming our game, and they just stopped playing after that. Roma didn't even try to score after Catania's equalizer lol.

.h.
23 Oct 13, 23:56
Oh c'mon, that's only because Roma stopped playing after Ibra scored his 2nd. I watched that game on TV while streaming our game, and they just didn't give a single fuck after that. Roma didn't even try to score after Catania's equalizer.

I didnt see the Roma game, so I cant comment on WHY, all I can say is what.
Even if we'd finished that season level on points with Roma, we'd have won on head to head.

Inter7
23 Oct 13, 23:58
Everyone has their definition of world class browha has repeatedly said top in their position then he is not world class in browha's opinion......

DIN011
23 Oct 13, 23:59
I didnt see the Roma game, so I cant comment on WHY, all I can say is what.
Even if we'd finished that season level on points with Roma, we'd have won on head to head.

Which wouldn't have happened if we had lost points to Parma and had Roma won vs Catania, which I'm sure they would have, they were in control up until our 2nd goal.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 00:00
Which wouldn't have happened if we had lost points to Parma and had Roma won vs Catania, which I'm sure they would have, they were in control up until our 2nd goal.

to be honest, ifs and buts are all very well, but we're talking about reality here. I know it's a bit of a cop out, but I think the point is there.

DIN011
24 Oct 13, 00:03
to be honest, ifs and buts are all very well, but we're talking about reality here. I know it's a bit of a cop out, but I think the point is there.

Ok then but still, WHEN he scored vs Parma, Roma WERE 1st. If that's not stepping up when it matters, then I don't know what is.

wicked wizard
24 Oct 13, 00:05
your definition of world class just seem to be the most popular players. what would you say about a player like totti is he world class

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your definition of world class just seem to be the most popular players. what would you say about a player like totti is he world class

.h.
24 Oct 13, 00:08
Ok then but still, WHEN he scored vs Parma, Roma WERE 1st. If that's not stepping up when it matters, then I don't know what is.

Sure, he did step up on that occassion - I havent argued that he doesnt do that (at least sometimes) in the league.

But what about the games against United a few weeks prior? Where he was shit the entire game at Old Trafford, for example?

And there in we have my point exactly. He is not even close to consistent at stepping up. He certainly does sometimes, but he doesnt regularly - and more importantly, as Ed points out succinctly - not in the most important games.

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your definition of world class just seem to be the most popular players. what would you say about a player like totti is he world class

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your definition of world class just seem to be the most popular players. what would you say about a player like totti is he world class


Totti certainly was world class a while ago. He's a 'world class legend' now the same way Zanetti is. He's not the best in the world at his position, but he's got a VERY established and long term legacy.

But right now, no, Totti is not world class. He once DEFINITELY was, and indeed for quite a long time was, but not now, nor has he been for probably a couple of years.

DIN011
24 Oct 13, 00:14
Sure, he did step up on that occassion - I havent argued that he doesnt do that (at least sometimes) in the league.

But what about the games against United a few weeks prior? Where he was shit the entire game at Old Trafford, for example?

And there in we have my point exactly. He is not even close to consistent at stepping up. He certainly does sometimes, but he doesnt regularly - and more importantly, as Ed points out succinctly - not in the most important games.

Tbf tho, I don't think he was SHIT in that game. Iirc correctly he was always danger, but his finishing let him down that game. Think he missed 2 very good chances in that one? (that header that hit the bar and that shot that went wide). But maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

And tbh, Utd were just a better team than us. I think the main reason for his bad results in CL with us is that he was always our only danger, thus making him easy to mark. All play basically went through him, since he was our only creative force. Balotelli was a bit too raw, Figo was too old really, Adriano was either injured, hungover or in Brazil at the time lol.


Personally, though, the Parma game was a more important game than the one vs United, since it was a title DECIDER, and not a knockout game.

Rimpel
24 Oct 13, 00:15
Ok no one agrees with you, except for ppl who generally have something against the player in question. Let's move on.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 00:16
All I can remember from the united game, right now, was him hitting the post once.

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Ok no one agrees with you, except for ppl who generally have something against the player in question. Let's move on.

Except at least clearly some people do, unless we have to re-address the comprehension issue. I'm not aware of any issue with Ed and Ibrahimovic, for one.

Wallace
24 Oct 13, 00:22
Poll for Is Ibrahimovic a world class player?

Let's settle this once and for all.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Rimpel
24 Oct 13, 00:22
Ok most people don't agree with you, let'a move on. Happy now sweetie?

.h.
24 Oct 13, 00:23
Ok most people don't agree with you, let'a move on. Happy now sweetie?

Yep, now dont forget to wipe my cum off your lips on your way out :)

Rimpel
24 Oct 13, 00:25
Yep, now dont forget to wipe my cum off your lips on your way out :)
Sorry I don't do virgins :/

.h.
24 Oct 13, 00:26
Sorry I don't dovirgins :/

hahahaha, yeah, because i'm a virgin

right, sure, we'll go with that then. you dont know anything about me, luls


edit;

Honestly, I think going down the 'hurr durr you're a virgin top lulz' line is about just slightly more ridiculous than the previous argument we had where you whined like a child for 30 minutes going 'LOL IM TOO BUSY BUT ILL KEEP POSTING ANYWAY'

Rimpel
24 Oct 13, 00:29
Dauym someone got suspiciously defensive quick.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 00:30
Dauym someone got suspiciously defensive quick.

Just amazed that you are at least 6 - almost 7 - years old. It's quite surprising.

pencilpal
24 Oct 13, 00:32
This is just a definitional dispute tbh

Imho Browha's definition of world class isn't purely dependent on world class ability, but the ability to consistently step it up in big matches

Tbh while Ibrahimovic's technique is stellar, his lack of consistency on putting on a top performance in the most important matches can be attributed to his lack of compassion for a single club

The great performances in football usually have emotional components rooted in them; someone like Milito who had never played for a title contending club before in his life recognized that he would never have another chance to win the CL again in his career, and proved himself on a domestic and continental stage

But the difference between a player like Milito and Ronaldo is that the latter never had a genuine connection with any club, but still managed to put in sensational performances in the biggest matches

Ibrahimovic similarly lacks the emotional connection, but unlike Ronaldo, that can be credited to his own ego, and he has been supported with a strong team for most of his career, while being quite inconsistent in the most important matches

.h.
24 Oct 13, 00:34
This is just a definitional dispute tbh

Imho Browha's definition of world class isn't purely dependent on world class ability, but the ability to consistently step it up in big matches

Tbh while Ibrahimovic's technique is stellar, his lack of consistency on putting on a top performance in the most important matches can be attributed to his lack of compassion for a single club

The great performances in football usually have emotional components rooted in them; someone like Milito who had never played for a title contending club before in his life recognized that he would never have another chance to win the CL again in his career, and proved himself on a domestic and continental stage

But the difference between a player like Milito and Ronaldo is that the latter never had a genuine connection with any club, but still managed to put in sensational performances in the biggest matches

Ibrahimovic similarly lacks the emotional connection, but unlike Ronaldo, that can be credited to his won ego, and he has been supported with a strong team for most of his career, generally being quite inconsistent in the most important matches

indeed. its an argument about definitions, ultimately. I dont think you can be a world class player unless you put in top drawer performances at the highest level. Simple as that. It doesnt matter how good you do in sub-par levels, the top level is the one where you discern 'very good' and 'world class'. Which is one of the reasons why I couldnt stand it when people were jizzing all over Ibrahimovic after he scored those goals against England. Like, so fucking what? Is Biraghi world class for scoring that goal against City?

Rimpel
24 Oct 13, 00:35
You're the one who brought up cumming, and you're now talking about being immature/ a child a post later :lol: dat virgin logic.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 00:36
You're the one who brought up cumming, and you're now talking about being immature/ a childa post later :lol: dat virgin logic.

If you want the right to call me sweetie, you better be prepared to deserve it :)

wicked wizard
24 Oct 13, 00:39
obviously ppl are gunna jiz over that england goal it was sik scoring it in a cl final would not have made it any better. it was still a football match against professional footballers

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obviously ppl are gunna jiz over that england goal it was sik scoring it in a cl final would not have made it any better. it was still a football match against professional footballers

.h.
24 Oct 13, 00:40
obviously ppl are gunna jiz over that england goal it was sik scoring it in a cl final would not have made it any better. it was still a football match against professional footballers


In a meaningless match... The point is he's NEVER scored anything like that in a big match. Pencilpal summed up my opinion with a different perspective quite well. It's not JUST about technical skill, it's about when you deliver it as well.

This isn't the football freestyle championship. This is professional football. Where people like Rooney - despite their perhaps somewhat lack of technique are much better players than someone like Cassano will ever be.

pencilpal
24 Oct 13, 00:41
obviously ppl are gunna jiz over that england goal it was sik scoring it in a cl final would not have made it any better. it was still a football match against professional footballers

:palm:

So if Milito had scored those two goals against Udinese instead of Bayern, it wouldn't have changed the quality of his performance?

.h.
24 Oct 13, 00:44
:palm:

So if Milito had scored those two goals against Udinese instead of Bayern, it wouldn't have changed the quality of his performance?

this is the sort of thing i have to argue with :)

Howl
24 Oct 13, 00:46
I don't see how you can hate him as a person? Dislike fine. The guy donates massively to charity. He's basically an open mercenary, you can't bitch at him for joining Milan after you were so happy to have him an Inter after Juve.

Everyone gives to charity. What he did in the 11/12 derby pissed me off a bit, but yeah generally moving to Milan too & some of the stupid shit he said/did which he wrote in his book, constantly trying to look like a thug. Fair enough, hate is a strong word but I will never like him.

Guess it's due to the fact I liked him alot when I was a kid, & then he left & came back to Merda. :fffuuu:

wicked wizard
24 Oct 13, 00:47
nooo this is professional football where been rooney and been english you only have to do a few things to be called a legend. where as cassano has to play like 5 times better than him to be rated the same. you really think if there nationalitys was swichd round you think rooney would be rated higher lol

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nooo this is professional football where been rooney and been english you only have to do a few things to be called a legend. where as cassano has to play like 5 times better than him to be rated the same. you really think if there nationalitys was swichd round you think rooney would be rated higher lol

.h.
24 Oct 13, 00:49
nooo this is professional football where been rooney and been english you only have to do a few things to be called a legend. where as cassano has to play like 5 times better than him to be rated the same. you really think if there nationalitys was swichd round you think rooney would be rated higher lol

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nooo this is professional football where been rooney and been english you only have to do a few things to be called a legend. where as cassano has to play like 5 times better than him to be rated the same. you really think if there nationalitys was swichd round you think rooney would be rated higher lol

cassano's never played even close to the level rooney NORMALLY plays at. Of course there are some arguments about form and fluctuations and so on, but Rooney - as a PROFESSIONAL PLAYER - is way better than Cassano.

If this was freestyle street football masters, then Cassano would be better. But it isnt. It's a profession, where goals, victories, and titles are more important than HOW you do it.

wicked wizard
24 Oct 13, 00:55
@wallpencilpal eh so the quality of the goal would of been better in cl final lool wtf u talking about

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@wallpencilpal eh so the quality of the goal would of been better in cl final lool wtf u talking about

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why do you call every player with good technique a street footballer. last time i looked cassano is a professional footballer, and yes it is how you play it football is a entertainment you watch it to see great things.

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why do you call every player with good technique a street footballer. last time i looked cassano is a professional footballer, and yes it is how you play it football is a entertainment you watch it to see great things.

pencilpal
24 Oct 13, 01:01
@wallpencilpal eh so the quality of the goal would of been better in cl final lool wtf u talking about

Dat logic :yao:

If someone scores a stunner in Lega pro, you would argue that it can compete with a beautiful goal scored in Serie A?

You're saying that the quality to the opposition doesn't affect the quality of the goal, and thereby the quality of the goalscorer's performance?

So if player X scores an identical goal against team A and team B, and it can be assumed that team A is much better than team B, then you would still maintain that the quality of the goal against both teams is identical?

Fitzy
24 Oct 13, 01:02
It seems Cristiano Ronaldo disappoints just about as much as Ibra does in big games. Maybe that's just me...

wicked wizard
24 Oct 13, 01:07
lool if someone scores a identical bicycle kick goal in seria a or seria c then there the same. by your logic the goal of the month or the year should just be between the top teams

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lool if someone scores a identical bicycle kick goal in seria a or seria c then there the same. by your logic the goal of the month or the year should just be between the top teams

Pajo
24 Oct 13, 06:25
Not this again :(

.h.
24 Oct 13, 08:26
Quality of the goal has NOTHING to do with someone being world class.

Van Nistelrooy was a world class goalscorer - and he never scored from outside of the box for united..

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It seems Cristiano Ronaldo disappoints just about as much as Ibra does in big games. Maybe that's just me...

Well, I disagree.

He has quite a strong pedigree of scoring goals in the Champions League - especially in the later stages - to carry his team. Look at the CL win against Chelsea, for example, he scored in that quite happily. He's not above disappointing, at times, but his failure rate is nothing like Ibrahimovic's in the latter stages, and he certainly knows how to get in amongst the goals. Moreover people in his team still look to him to carry them - and he does. Look at Real's last CL campaign. Scored a goal in every GAME in the knock out stages except the last one against Dortmund. Even Milito only scored a goal in every overall stage, not every game.

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why do you call every player with good technique a street footballer. last time i looked cassano is a professional footballer, and yes it is how you play it football is a entertainment you watch it to see great things.

What every conversation we've ever had reveals to me is that you dont understand professional football. You look at it from the technical side exclusively. The ONLY thing that matters is the final package. If someone is capable of scoring 40 goals a season as a striker, he's a better player than a striker who scores 10 (in most cases, there are a few exceptional ones). It doesnt matter if they are brilliantly technical, or just quicker, or consistently lucky. The final package - how they affect results - is the only thing that counts. Not how they DO it.

Cassano might be a significantly better technical player than Rooney, but Rooney is a MUCH better PROFESSIONAL player.

That said, you're the same guy who says Di Maria > Ronaldo, and what were the other completely ridiculous ones? I dont even remember now.


edit; Oh right, Krasic > Bale. Luls. Most stupid thing I've ever heard. Ignoring Rimpel comments.

wicked wizard
24 Oct 13, 09:51
loool i dont know about professional football looool what team did you last play for. and yes been technically good is very important why do u think brazil win world cups and play good football and england get knocked out all the time while playing shit. And how is rooney more professional? hes had a better career yes but thats because hes at a team thats allways been one of the best in the league since he was 18 and can play shit for 6 months and still wont get droped . if cassano setteld in to a top club like that and became undropble he would have way better stats hes just a way better footballer end of. you dont really seem to know what makes players good.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 10:04
loool i dont know about professional football looool what team did you last play for. and yes been technically good is very important why do u think brazil win world cups and play good football and england get knocked out all the time while playing shit. And how is rooney more professional? hes had a better career yes but thats because hes at a team thats allways been one of the best in the league since he was 18 and can play shit for 6 months and still wont get droped . if cassano setteld in to a top club like that and became undropble he would have way better stats hes just a way better footballer end of. you dont really seem to know what makes players good.

Because Cassano hasnt had his chances at a top club? There's a REASON why Rooney's been at United since he was 18...

And again,y ou completely misunderstand me.

I CERTAINLY dont prize physical skills over technical ability. The point is that being a top player isnt JUST about having technical skills. Its about having the complete package. Which is why Rooney, who in a bad season plays better than Cassano could ever have dreamed of, is a winner, and Cassano is an Inter/Real/Roma diva fantastic reject. He might be a much better player technically, but he's not a better player.

if cassano setteld in to a top club like that and became undropble, yes, well, lets fantasize all we want about Cassano actually becoming a GOOD player. But he isn't, wasn't, never will be, and failed at the chances he got. What if Balotelli was white and we never had to worry about the racist issues around him? We can throw out hypothetical situations all we want. It's completely irrelevant. The simple FACT is that Cassano can not hold a candle to Rooney, has failed really in every club he's played at, and has reached something like 10-15 % the heights that he should have reached in his career. Had he been more than just a technically capable player, he could be one of the best strikers in the world today. Instead, he spent his time bagging women, drinking beer, and throwing tantrums. Which is why Rooney will go down as one of the best players in England's history, and Cassano will be a melodramatic footnote in the annals of Serie A.

Hasan
24 Oct 13, 10:11
Oni ti ga puše Zlataneeee .... -)))))))

wicked wizard
24 Oct 13, 10:24
rooney played like shite last season but ppl will just remember the few good games. its like xavi said one time in england you have a few good games you get called a legend but in sapin you have a few bad games ppl will hate i think that mentality is like that in italy 2 they is no way rooney would be still at man u now gettin 200 grand or what ever hes on a week if he wasent english.

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rooney played like shite last season but ppl will just remember the few good games. its like xavi said one time in england you have a few good games you get called a legend but in sapin you have a few bad games ppl will hate i think that mentality is like that in italy 2 they is no way rooney would be still at man u now gettin 200 grand or what ever hes on a week if he wasent english.

Pajo
24 Oct 13, 10:27
Browha, don't bother trying to understand wicked :D

.h.
24 Oct 13, 10:35
rooney played like shite last season but ppl will just remember the few good games. its like xavi said one time in england you have a few good games you get called a legend but in sapin you have a few bad games ppl will hate i think that mentality is like that in italy 2 they is no way rooney would be still at man u now gettin 200 grand or what ever hes on a week if he wasent english.


Oh, we can BOTH agree Rooney had a bad season last year. But you make him sound like he's been nothing but shit for years. In Italy there is no way Rooney would still be at Man Utd? What about Adriano? We carried him for 3? 4? years on HUGE wages, and he didnt even deliver 1% of what Rooney has done in a 'bad' season.

But, lets stay on the topic of Rooney and his bad seasons quickly.

Rooney last year was bad, Cassano last year was great, right? Thats how you feel?

Rooney last year - scored 16 goals. Cassano - 9.

Rooney last year - assisted 15. Cassano - also 15.

So, despite being in what even you admit was a bad year, he's scored and assisted more goals than Cassano in a great year.


Enough said. Your ridiculous double standards are a fucking joke.

(Why dont we just test this season's waters? Rooney - P10 G5 A6. Cassano - P9 G4 A3. And many would describe this as Cassano's best ever season so far. For Rooney, this is just a decent season, but nothing amazing yet)

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Browha, don't bother trying to understand wicked :D

I believe in the deepest part of even the most ignorant/stupid/etc people (and I use this as a general term rather than insulting anyone in particular), there is a fundamental core which can be reasoned with and logic'd with. A French kid did this to one of the islamist fundamentalists in Westgate in Nairobi, and saved his family's lives. Don't tell me some people we argue with here are LESS REASONABLE than fundamental terrorists.

Dylan
24 Oct 13, 10:39
browha, you don't understand how brainwashed by the EPL you are.

wicked wizard
24 Oct 13, 10:40
why hire scouts when stats tell you everything. You obviously did not watch a man u game last season so i dont even know why you commet he was shit. cassano had a better season

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why hire scouts when stats tell you everything. You obviously did not watch a man u game last season so i dont even know why you commet he was shit. cassano had a better season

.h.
24 Oct 13, 10:41
why hire scouts when stats tell you everything. You obviously did not watch a man u game last season so i dont even know why you commet he was shit. cassano had a better season

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why hire scouts when stats tell you everything. You obviously did not watch a man u game last season so i dont even know why you commet he was shit. cassano had a better season

Nice but completely irrelevant retort.


browha, you don't understand how brainwashed by the EPL you are.

How so? I'm not (clearly) even an EPL fan... I just find arguing whether or not someone who is one of the people who has been one of the best goalscorers in the EPL in the last decade, and comparing them to a diva who hasnt even hit 15% of the potential he could reach actually ridiculous.

wicked wizard
24 Oct 13, 10:49
thing is i have seen rooney play more than anyone here and i have seen cassano a lot 2 and cassano just way better but rooneys more famous so he must be better

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thing is i have seen rooney play more than anyone here and i have seen cassano a lot 2 and cassano just way better but rooneys more famous so he must be better

Cal
24 Oct 13, 10:51
You really don't help yourself...

.h.
24 Oct 13, 10:51
thing is i have seen rooney play more than anyone here and i have seen cassano a lot 2 and cassano just way better but rooneys more famous so he must be better


And yet another bold and completely unfounded statement. You assume a lot there. Who knows, maybe I've watched every game Cassano's played since he was 12, or same with Rooney.

Your debating skills are very poor. You don't deal in facts, you don't deal with the issue at hand, you just make random emotive personal appeals. "You dont understand football as you've never played for a professional team", "I've seen Rooney play loads so I know what I'm talking about", "All my friends are Man Utd supporters and they think Cassano is better than Rooney"


Not one single one of those statements is a counter argument, holds a fact, or adds to the discussion. If you disagree with me, state why, describe your evidence, and explain your position. Dont pull out the emotive ad hominem bullshit which assumes alot about me, most of it unfounded.

wicked wizard
24 Oct 13, 10:55
i have said loads of times why hes better i know am right like i am most off the the time about most things

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i have said loads of times why hes better i know am right like i am most off the the time about most things

.h.
24 Oct 13, 10:55
i have said loads of times why hes better i know am right like i am most off the the time about most things

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i have said loads of times why hes better i know am right like i am most off the the time about most things


does that include your spelling and grammar? :oblivious:

Pajo
24 Oct 13, 10:59
I KNOW i'm right :D That's golden.

wicked wizard
24 Oct 13, 10:59
end of the day you a scroney forum nerd whos never kicked a ball in his life your opinion about football is a joke

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end of the day you a scroney forum nerd whos never kicked a ball in his life your opinion about football is a joke

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 11:01
This is just a definitional dispute tbh

Imho Browha's definition of world class isn't purely dependent on world class ability, but the ability to consistently step it up in big matches

Tbh while Ibrahimovic's technique is stellar, his lack of consistency on putting on a top performance in the most important matches can be attributed to his lack of compassion for a single club

The great performances in football usually have emotional components rooted in them; someone like Milito who had never played for a title contending club before in his life recognized that he would never have another chance to win the CL again in his career, and proved himself on a domestic and continental stage

But the difference between a player like Milito and Ronaldo is that the latter never had a genuine connection with any club, but still managed to put in sensational performances in the biggest matches

Ibrahimovic similarly lacks the emotional connection, but unlike Ronaldo, that can be credited to his own ego, and he has been supported with a strong team for most of his career, while being quite inconsistent in the most important matches

Ronaldo as in Brazilian fat fuck traitor? That Ronaldo?

Care to post all those sensational perfomances in the biggest games? I'm quite sure that Ibahimović has very similar number of such great games on a club level.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 11:02
end of the day you a scroney forum nerd whos never kicked a ball in his life your opinion about football is a joke

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end of the day you a scroney forum nerd whos never kicked a ball in his life your opinion about football is a joke


Again a complete ad hominem argument. You haven't disproved or even TRIED to disprove anything I've said. If you disagree with me, then EXPLAIN WHY. I might be a 'scroney (??) forum nerd', but you're uneducated and incapable of actually holding a mature discussion. I don't mind people being uneducated - it isn't (generally) their fault - but I expect at least a smidgeon of reason and rationality.

I'm a reasonable guy, try to persuade me round to your perspective. I've been persuaded on numerous things on this forum before, and it's not like I refuse to buy into other people's views...

Also, I might be a 'scroney [presumably you mean scrawny] forum nerd', but at least I don't have to go around pretending I'm a failed premiership youth player. Like that's something to be proud of.

Doffy
24 Oct 13, 11:06
Then again, its real strange there is still debate over Ibra being worldclass or not. It should be clear as day by now that he definitely is.. His resume and technique speak for itself.

Pajo
24 Oct 13, 11:06
imo, wicked has some complexes with EPL players, no matter the nationality. He dislikes Bale, CR, Rooney, even said Ozil is not that good. All the best EPL players.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 11:09
Then again, its real strange there is still debate over ibra being worldclass or not. it should be clear as day by now that he definitely is.. His resume and technique speak for itself.
I've explained in my previous posts why I feel he isnt world class, what my definition of world class is, and what he'd have to do to qualify.

Scoring great goals doesn't make you world class. Scoring important goals, does.

If people want to disagree with my opinion on Ibrahimovic, they are perfectly entitled to. I've only ever stated my opinion and defended it, if you want to use a different (looser) definition of world class then you are entitled to. But I don't think anyone can deny that there is a 'category' between Ibrahimovic and Ronaldo+Messi. I'm not talking technical capability (just to re-iterate, in case anyone is going to be stupid), but rather, in terms of delivery.

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imo, wicked has some complexes with EPL players, no matter the nationality. He dislikes Bale, CR, Rooney, even said Ozil is not that good. All the best EPL players.

Well, its obvious that Krasic is better than Bale.

wicked wizard
24 Oct 13, 11:12
when did i ever say ozil not good? and i can say the same about you and barcelona

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when did i ever say ozil not good? and i can say the same about you and barcelona

Pajo
24 Oct 13, 11:14
What about me and Barcelona? Did i ever denied their quality? Or the effectiveness? Nah, im just saying they are diving pricks. Martijn is the one who denies their quality, not me.

And you did say it about Ozil, when there was a debate if RM made the right call to sell him and get Isco.

wicked wizard
24 Oct 13, 11:21
ye i think isco's better or will whats wrong with that loads off ppl do never once said he wasent that good. and i dont denied pl quality aguero Suarez rvp i rate. but ye bale and rooney are way over rated

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ye i think isco's better or will whats wrong with that loads off ppl do never once said he wasent that good. and i dont denied pl quality aguero Suarez rvp i rate. but ye bale and rooney are way over rated

rockball
24 Oct 13, 11:22
Looks like we had another 10 pages here in one night.

That's the Ibra effect ;)

Fuck world class, he is the greatest ever!!!

pencilpal
24 Oct 13, 11:41
Ronaldo as in Brazilian fat fuck traitor? That Ronaldo?

Care to post all those sensational perfomances in the biggest games? I'm quite sure that Ibahimović has very similar number of such great games on a club level.

It is undeniable that Ronaldo CARRIED the team wherever he was at, unlike Ibrahimovic

He scored twice in the fucking world cup final, scored in the 1997 UEFA Cup Final, scored the winning goal in the Copa del Rey, as well as many other competitions.

I also remember his notable performance with Real Madrid against Manchester United, where he single handedly knocked them out of the competition in the quarter final stage (but got injured before the final)

The difference between Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic is that the latter is consistently a class above the rest wherever he goes, and he steps it up on the biggest stages, consistently performing in the most important matches

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i have said loads of times why hes better i know am right like i am most off the the time about most things

Your humility is admirable.

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 11:44
It is undeniable that Ronaldo CARRIED the team wherever he was at, unlike Ibrahimovic

He scored twice in the fucking world cup final, scored in the 1997 UEFA Cup Final, scored the winning goal in the Copa del Rey, as well as many other competitions.

I also remember his notable performance with Real Madrid against Manchester United, where he single handedly knocked them out of the competition in the quarter final stage (but got injured before the final)

The difference between Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic is that the latter is consistently a class above the rest wherever he goes, and he steps it up on the biggest stages, consistently performing in the most important matches

I said at the club level.

Ibrahimović carried Inter, Milan and PSG, scored in all domestic derby games,won us scudetto in Parma, scored important CL knockout stage goals as well(Arsenal). Ronaldo's and his record in so called imporant matches on a club level are very similar. Please don't make Ronaldo into some kind of a big game god on a club level, the facts don't support it.

Dylan
24 Oct 13, 12:00
How so? I'm not (clearly) even an EPL fan... I just find arguing whether or not someone who is one of the people who has been one of the best goalscorers in the EPL in the last decade, and comparing them to a diva who hasnt even hit 15% of the potential he could reach actually ridiculous.

I was joking :lol:

sanka
24 Oct 13, 12:01
Looks like we had another 10 pages here in one night.

How a troll line can bump a Zlatan wc/not dscussion. I enjoyed it.

Big Willy
24 Oct 13, 12:08
I hate il nose, but he has all my admiration as a player. He vas very important in the 07-08 and 08-09 titles, specially in the last one.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 12:16
I was joking :lol:

haha, fair enough, sorry. A little on the defensive, as you can imagine

Akif
24 Oct 13, 12:32
This ‘world class’ debate is semantics, really. Let’s say browha’s categorization, which focuses on ‘delivery’ instead of technicality aspect, is more tangible and less prone to subjectivity in most of cases. However, it’s not without flaws, tbh, since there’re decent players out there who consistently deliver in big games, like Pedro for example. He’s not even technically as good as Di Maria but he always delivers (you may say, he used to) when his team calling for it.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 12:35
This ‘world class’ debate is semantics, really. Let’s say browha’s categorization, which focuses on ‘delivery’ instead of technicality aspect, is more tangible and less prone to subjectivity in most of cases. However, it’s not without flaws, tbh, since there’re decent players out there who consistently deliver in big games, like Pedro for example. He’s not even technically as good as Di Maria but he always delivers (you may say, he used to) when his team calling for it.
Agreed. It is a slightly hazy definition of world class, but theres no way - imho - any definition of world class should be exclusively based on technical skills with no appreciation for output or delivery.

If someone has a better definition, which incorporates the delivery and output as well as the technical side, I'm all ears.

But for me, one fundamental rule of being a world class player is that you cannot be world class unless you consistently deliver in the top games. You might be the best player in the world at everything else, but unless you tick that last box, you are not world class.

Cal
24 Oct 13, 12:45
Neglecting the productivity in CL semi's argument for the moment, you've said that Ibra is above Falcao and Cavani, but said he isn't world class like Messi or Ronaldo. But Messi in particular can become arguably the greatest player ever, so to not be on his level doesn't necessarily mean not world class, just means 'not all time legend' or whatever.

And just curious, do you then believe that Milito in prime > Ibra? Despite vast gap in technical and physical ability, but purely because of delivery in huge games?

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 12:48
This ‘world class’ debate is semantics, really. Let’s say browha’s categorization, which focuses on ‘delivery’ instead of technicality aspect, is more tangible and less prone to subjectivity in most of cases. However, it’s not without flaws, tbh, since there’re decent players out there who consistently deliver in big games, like Pedro for example. He’s not even technically as good as Di Maria but he always delivers (you may say, he used to) when his team calling for it.

Well, in theory yes, but dude is subjectively ignoring stuff to fit Ibrahimović into his objective categorization. According to this, Ibrahimović is not world class because he can not produce in big games. But when you list his achievements in those games there is always but with browha.

He scored against Barcelona last season and generally was the best player in that tie, BUT it lead them nowhere. He scored brace against Parma, BUT we would have won Serie A anyways. He scored in his debut El Clasico to lead Barcelona to victory, BUT....something. And so on.

I can agree that a world class player needs to produce in big moments, but there is no factual evidence against Ibrahimović doing it multiple times in his career.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 12:50
Neglecting the productivity in CL semi's argument for the moment, you've said that Ibra is above Falcao and Cavani, but said he isn't world class like Messi or Ronaldo. But Messi in particular can become arguably the greatest player ever, so to not be on his level doesn't necessarily mean not world class, just means 'not all time legend' or whatever.

And just curious, do you then believe that Milito in prime > Ibra? Despite vast gap in technical and physical ability, but purely because of delivery in huge games?

Well, that's a tough one. I believe that Milito's achievements in 2010 were above any that Ibra made for us. Yes, I said it. They might not have been as spectacular, but that doesn't matter. It's the big pressure games, the consistent delivery (scoring the goals which won us the Serie A, the CI, the CL, and scoring in EVERY round of the CL) that does it for me. The only thing that would stop me from calling Milito world class is that, sadly, he was quite late to the 'top game', and hasn't been that good at Inter except for 2010 and alot of 2012. If he'd done things at a comparable level to 2010 (in terms of performance, rather than winning titles and so on, and at a very high level), then I would be arguing for calling Milito world class.

You don't have to be a scorer of great goals to be a great goalscorer.

Yes, you are certainly correct that Messi is probably going to be 'all time legend' - but as I've defined previously, my statement on world class is the players in each position (or whatever) who are clearly above the rest of the competition. So, yes, what that means is perhaps 20 years ago, or in 10 years time, or something else, Ibra would have been closer to world class than he is now, but sadly, you have to work with what you're given.

I mean its like people who say Ronaldo would be one of the greatest players in history if it wasn't for Messi. Well, sadly, Messi is here, and he's the one with the Ballon d'Ors, and not Ronaldo. We could argue hypotheticals all night, but we should deal in reality.

pencilpal
24 Oct 13, 12:52
I said at the club level.

Ibrahimović carried Inter, Milan and PSG, scored in all domestic derby games,won us scudetto in Parma, scored important CL knockout stage goals as well(Arsenal). Ronaldo's and his record in so called imporant matches on a club level are very similar. Please don't make Ronaldo into some kind of a big game god on a club level, the facts don't support it.

Let's compare them statistically first



Ronaldo (only counting seasons with > 20 app, so no injuries)

Zlatan Ibrahimovic



94/95 35 goals in 36 app (PSV)
96/97 47 goals in 49 app (Barcelona)
97/98 34 goals in 47 app (Inter)
02/03 30 goals in 44 app (Real Madrid)
03/04 24 goals in 32 app (Real Madrid)
04/05 31 goals in 48 app (Real Madrid)
02/03 21 goals in 42 app
03/04 15 goals in 31 app
04/05 16 goals in 45 app
05/06 10 goals in 47 app
06/07 15 goals in 36 app
07/08 22 goals in 34 app
08/09 29 goals in 47 app
09/10 21 goals in 45 app
10/11 21 goals in 41 app
11/12 35 goals in 44 app




No fucking comparison tbh. Even after a terrible 3 year injury with Inter he still managed to give a legendary performance in the world cup, and score 30 goals for Real Madrid.

He single handedly pulled EVERY club team he was at, always putting in amazing performances, especially when it really mattered.

Tbh Ibrahimovic has never pulled a team in that regard; he couldn't even possess a similar goalscoring record with Inter when the league had suffered due to calciopoli and he had better teammates around him; also consider that Ronaldo possessed such an electric goalscoring record with Inter in a time when Serie A was the best league in the world, especially in terms of defensive solidarity.

Every single title Ronaldo has accumulated can be attributed to his individual presence on the team tbh.
You can't say the same for Ibrahimovic.

And Ibrahimovic only carried teams in comparatively poor leagues. Serie A now is nothing compared to what it used to be, and Ligue 1 is a joke. Not to mention that the Serie A's is in a much better state now compared
to 2 years ago, when Ibrahimovic was still in Italy.

So in other words, Ronaldo individually won every single piece of silverware he possesses; a unique feat for any player of a team sport

And that's the monumental difference in class between someone like Ronaldo and someone like Ibrahimovic.

Not to mention that Ronaldo scored 2 goals in the world cup final in a match that eventually ended 2-0 for Brazil. And I have no fucking clue why you omit international contributions from your analysis.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 12:56
Well, in theory yes, but dude is subjectively ignoring stuff to fit Ibrahimović into his objective categorization. According to this, Ibrahimović is not world class because he can not produce in big games. But when you list his achievements in those games there is always but with browha.

He scored against Barcelona last season and generally was the best player in that tie, BUT it lead them nowhere. He scored brace against Parma, BUT we would have won Serie A anyways. He scored in his debut El Clasico to lead Barcelona to victory, BUT....something. And so on.

I can agree that a world class player needs to produce in big moments, but there is no factual evidence against Ibrahimović doing it multiple times in his career.

When did he do it for Inter (In the CL, I'm talking)? When did he even do it in the really big matches in Serie A? In 2006-2007, he did 2 in 4 (vs Roma, Milan). In 2007-2008 he was 1 in 6 vs Roma,Milan,Juventus. 2008-2009 he was 2 in 6. That isn't that much 'delivery' in the big matches, a total of 5 goals in 16 games in 3 years.

Then look at his CL Record for us. He scored ONE GOAL in the 2008-2009 CL, frmo 8 matches. He scored 5 in 8 in 2007-2008, but not once in the knock out stages, and even then those 5 goals were in 3 matches. In 2006-2007, he didnt score a single goal in the CL for us.

So in 'big matches' (e.g. European + Roma, Milan, Juve) he scored a total of 11 goals in 40. Consistently done it? Bull shit.

Note, fair disclaimer, I believe of the 24 CL games I quote him as scoring/not scoring in, he missed 3 of them. But I am aggregating all the big games of the season. Point still remains reasonably intact, though.

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 13:01
Let's compare them statistically first

Ronaldo (only counting seasons with > 20 app, so no injuries)

94/95 35 goals in 36 app (PSV)
96/97 47 goals in 49 app (Barcelona)
97/98 34 goals in 47 app (Inter)
02/03 30 goals in 44 app (Real Madrid)
03/04 24 goals in 32 app (Real Madrid)
04/05 31 goals in 48 app (Real Madrid)

Ibrahimovic

02/03 21 goals in 42 app
03/04 15 goals in 31 app
04/05 16 goals in 45 app
05/06 10 goals in 47 app
06/07 15 goals in 36 app
07/08 22 goals in 34 app
08/09 29 goals in 47 app
09/10 21 goals in 45 app
10/11 21 goals in 41 app
11/12 35 goals in 44 app

So it becomes obvious statistically than Ronaldo is a class above Ibrahimovic.

All I see here is Ibrahimović scoring more goals career wise and being actually able to help his teams in way more seasons.


Moreover, he single handedly pulled EVERY club team he was at, always putting in amazing performances when it matters.

Tbh Ibrahimovic has never pulled a team in that regard; he couldn't even possess a similar goalscoring record with inter when the league had suffered due to calciopoli, he had better teammates around him, and Ronaldo was in a time when Serie A was the best league in the world.

Ronaldo wasn't even the best player on that Real Madrid team, probably not even the second best. Ibrahimović has also done what you are saying abut Ronaldo.


Every single title Ronaldo has accumulated can be attributed to his presence on the team tbh
You can't say the same for Ibrahimovic.

And Ibra has carried his teams in decrepit leagues. Serie A now is nothing compared to what it used to be, and Ligue 1 is a joke. Not to mention that the league atm is probably better overall than during Ibrahimovic's tenure in Italy.

All of this is your subjective rumblings to bring Ibrahimović down. You are yet to list me all of Ronaldo's big games, and I'll list you Zlatan's and we'll compare the number. Please don't drag me into a long and boring discussion, just list his ''big games'' at the club level.


Not to mention that Ronaldo scored 2 goals in the world cup final in a match that eventually ended 2-0 for Brazil. And I have no fucking idea why international contributions are omitted from your analysis.

Well isn't it fucking obvious? Has Zlatan ever have a benefit of playing in a national team as good as was 2002. Brazil. Or any Brazil for that matter? Those are rhetorical questions btw.

The guy is playing for Sweden ffs.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 13:04
Well, looking at Ronaldo on transfermarkt very quickly, he scored 10 in 21 against Roma, Juventus, and Milan. If you include Inter on that too, that's 10 in 22. As a rate, its much better than Ibra did at Inter - and that's ignoring his Juve years playing against Milan, Roma, and Inter, where he was not a prolific goalscorer either.

edit; As stated, these are quickly pulled from transfermarkt, so I'm ... hesitant about them to say the best. I'd like to independently verify but I dont really have the time right now, I will endeavour to do so when I can, though. However, its clear that he scored at a rate approximately twice that of Ibra (granted, european games not counted yet, which brings down Ibra quite a bit, but not enough to make the argument interesting), and even then, Inter under Ronaldo were not as good as Inter with Ibra - we won, for starters, the Serie A several times in a row.

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 13:05
When did he do it for Inter (In the CL, I'm talking)? When did he even do it in the really big matches in Serie A? In 2006-2007, he did 2 in 4 (vs Roma, Milan). In 2007-2008 he was 1 in 6 vs Roma,Milan,Juventus. 2008-2009 he was 2 in 6. That isn't that much 'delivery' in the big matches, a total of 5 goals in 16 games in 3 years.

Then look at his CL Record for us. He scored ONE GOAL in the 2008-2009 CL, frmo 8 matches. He scored 5 in 8 in 2007-2008, but not once in the knock out stages, and even then those 5 goals were in 3 matches. In 2006-2007, he didnt score a single goal in the CL for us.

So in 'big matches' (e.g. European + Roma, Milan, Juve) he scored a total of 11 goals in 40. Consistently done it? Bull shit.

Note, fair disclaimer, I believe of the 24 CL games I quote him as scoring/not scoring in, he missed 3 of them. But I am aggregating all the big games of the season. Point still remains reasonably intact, though.

He did it consistently enough for all those teams combined no matter what you say.

Parma, scoring in Serie A derbies, Clasico, CL matches against Barcelona, Arsenal, scoring against basically every top euro national team and so on.

Not just that your criteria is flawed but even by your own criteria you need to subjectively take away from him to fit him into it.

La Brujita
24 Oct 13, 13:07
So basically everyone agrees that Ibra is world-class except Browha.

Why are we arguing?

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 13:08
Well, looking at Ronaldo on transfermarkt very quickly, he scored 10 in 21 against Roma, Juventus, and Milan. If you include Inter on that too, that's 10 in 22. As a rate, its much better than Ibra did at Inter - and that's ignoring his Juve years playing against Milan, Roma, and Inter, where he was not a prolific goalscorer either.

Was Roma even the third/fourth best team then lol?

I'm not going into dissecting their careers, they were also not similar players and didn't have a similar impact on the game but saying Ronaldo was world class because he played so many big games on a club level and Ibrahimović isn't is just clutching at straws.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 13:11
He did it consistently enough for all those teams combined no matter what you say.

Parma, scoring in Serie A derbies, Clasico, CL matches against Barcelona, Arsenal, scoring against basically every top euro nation team and so on.

Not just that your criteria is flawed but even by your own criteria you need to subjectively take away from him to fit him into it.

I haven't said he NEVER EVER EVER has done it. He just hasnt done it CONSISTENTLY. How many goals has he scored in the CL knock out stages?

I'll tell you.

Knock outs last year he was 1 in 3. Year before he was 1 in 4. Before that 0 in 2. Before that 3 in 5 at Barca. 0 in 2 at Inter (09), 0 in 2 (08), 0 in 2 (07, Valencia), 0 in 4 for Juve in 06, 0 in 4 for Juve in 2005, 0 in 2 in 2003 - though if you count the 2nd group stage, it goes to 2 in 8. That's a total of 7 goals in 38 matches.

So dont fucking tell me he's always done it. Bull fucking shit.

Pajo
24 Oct 13, 13:11
:serious:

Ibra's world class for me, one of the best strikers in the past decade... But Ronaldo... Ronaldo's one of the best in history, and i'd pick him over Ibra any day of the week.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 13:12
So basically everyone agrees that Ibra is world-class except Browha.

Why are we arguing?

yeah, except me, and Ed, and pencilpal, and a few other people too, who actually understand my perspective.

Pajo
24 Oct 13, 13:13
I do understand your perspective, just don't agree with you :P

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 13:14
Well, looking at Ronaldo on transfermarkt very quickly, he scored 10 in 21 against Roma, Juventus, and Milan. If you include Inter on that too, that's 10 in 22. As a rate, its much better than Ibra did at Inter - and that's ignoring his Juve years playing against Milan, Roma, and Inter, where he was not a prolific goalscorer either.

edit; As stated, these are quickly pulled from transfermarkt, so I'm ... hesitant about them to say the best. I'd like to independently verify but I dont really have the time right now, I will endeavour to do so when I can, though. However, its clear that he scored at a rate approximately twice that of Ibra (granted, european games not counted yet, which brings down Ibra quite a bit, but not enough to make the argument interesting), and even then, Inter under Ronaldo were not as good as Inter with Ibra - we won, for starters, the Serie A several times in a row.

You don't really have to do it, you probably won't convince anyone with bunch of subjectively pulled numbers, especially because people realize that there is more to being a world class player.

And it's very interesting that you make this comment about Inter being stronger in Ibra's time, finally realizing it's a team game after all. So you can't now just ignore Inter not having anyone offensively gifted around Ibra which made him a non-factor in CL games. Except for that Liverpool home game where he flat out choked.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 13:14
I do understand your perspective, just don't agree with you :P

and you're perfectly entitled to. I'm not trying to persuade you. I'm defending my opinion against the people who are having a go at me for it

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 13:15
I haven't said he NEVER EVER EVER has done it. He just hasnt done it CONSISTENTLY. How many goals has he scored in the CL knock out stages?

I'll tell you.

Knock outs last year he was 1 in 3. Year before he was 1 in 4. Before that 0 in 2. Before that 3 in 5 at Barca. 0 in 2 at Inter (09), 0 in 2 (08), 0 in 2 (07, Valencia), 0 in 4 for Juve in 06, 0 in 4 for Juve in 2005, 0 in 2 in 2003 - though if you count the 2nd group stage, it goes to 2 in 8. That's a total of 7 goals in 38 matches.

So dont fucking tell me he's always done it. Bull fucking shit.

How many goals did Ronaldo score in CL knock out stages?

.h.
24 Oct 13, 13:16
You don't really have to do it, you probably won't convince anyone with bunch of subjectively pulled numbers, especially because people realize that there is more to being a world class player.

And it's very interesting that you make this comment about Inter being stronger in Ibra's time, finally realizing it's a team game after all. So you can't now just ignore Inter not having anyone offensively gifted around Ibra which made him a non-factor in CL games. Except for that Liverpool home game where he flat out choked.

I'm pointing it out as a comparative measure. Ibrahimovic, I agree isnt to be jduged SOLELY on his goals, but his assists also in that time are very limited.

You brandish him as carrying the team through his great goals and goalscoring exploits, but then you change that metric as soon as I show you that your argument is bullshit.


Ibrahimovic has ALWAYS BEEN A BIG GAME FLOP. 7 goals in 38 matches in the CL later stages, and 5 in 16 for Inter against big clubs is not what a top player does.

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 13:17
:serious:

Ibra's world class for me, one of the best strikers in the past decade... But Ronaldo... Ronaldo's one of the best in history, and i'd pick him over Ibra any day of the week.

Absolutely, but you nor I would pick him over Ibra just because he was such a big game player on a club level. Because he really wasn't.

There are other factors why Ronaldo would be our pick and those have nothing to do with googling the shit out of his career statistics. People who watched him play should know.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 13:18
How many goals did Ronaldo score in CL knock out stages?

Honestly, right now I dont know off hand, I DO remember, off hand, the hat trick against United, for example though.

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 13:23
I'm pointing it out as a comparative measure. Ibrahimovic, I agree isnt to be jduged SOLELY on his goals, but his assists also in that time are very limited.

You brandish him as carrying the team through his great goals and goalscoring exploits, but then you change that metric as soon as I show you that your argument is bullshit.


Ibrahimovic has ALWAYS BEEN A BIG GAME FLOP. 7 goals in 38 matches in the CL later stages, and 5 in 16 for Inter against big clubs is not what a top player does.

Never did that. I only meant Ibrahimović carried his teams as in being consistently good/great throughout the seasons, winning multiple league games, scoring goals in bunches. And did fairly and consistently well in the big games when you consider all the factors.

Big game flop doesn't win for us in Parma, win Clasico, dominate Barcelona and Arsenal, score in every Serie A derby etc...

- - - Updated - - -


Honestly, right now I dont know off hand, I DO remember, off hand, the hat trick against United, for example though.

I'll help you, less than Ibrahimović. And his whole CL career is nothing to write home about, something like 14 goals in 40 games. But who the fuck cares, the guy was still a beast.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 13:25
Never did that. I only meant Ibrahimović carried his teams as in being consistently good/great throughout the seasons, winning multiple league games, scoring goals in bunches. And did fairly and consistently well in the big games when you consider all the factors.

Big game flop doesn't win for us in Parma, win Clasico, dominante Barcelona and Arsenal, score in every Serie A derby etc...

Dont get me wrong - he did well in the smaller games. That's something I do appreciate him a lot for - he is fantastic when carrying a team against smaller opposition.

You keep citing this Parma, Clasic, barca and arsenal bullshit. But you reinforce my point. The fact that you can actually LIST the "big games" he carried us in is laughable already - try and do the same for Messi, Ronaldo, or fuck even Milito/Sneijder in the treble season. He's a long fucking way - as I've just posted and explained thoroughly - frmo being on a level, in big games, to someone like Messi, C. Ronaldo, Milito even (though I am not calling Milito world class). That alone for me means he can NOT be a world class player.

I like him a lot, he's exceptionally good, but world class he is not.

- - - Updated - - -




I'll help you, less than Ibrahimović. And his whole CL career is nothing to write home about, something like 14 goals in 40 games. But who the fuck cares, the guy was still a beast.

Hey I agree entirely. He's a fucking beast, people will love him for a long time to come - quite rightly, etc etc. He has a unique interpretation of the strikers role which is truly fantastic to watch. He scores spectacular goals VERY regularly. He's a spectacular goalscorer, and a spectacular 'character' in the film of global football. But he does not make the world class category for me.

pencilpal
24 Oct 13, 13:29
All I see here is Ibrahimović scoring more goals career wise and being actually able to help his teams in way more seasons.

:palm: You're joking

Ff you didn't know, Ronaldo was injured for the seasons that weren't recorded in my analysis, the reason why I'm showing less seasons for Ronaldo than Ibrahimovic

So that laughable attempt at replying to my presented statistics is all bullshit on your part, as always :)


Ronaldo wasn't even the best player on that Real Madrid team, probably not even the second best. Ibrahimović has also done what you are saying abut Ronaldo.

:palm:

Without him they Real would've been desecrated tbh; remember that he was THE best striker in the world. Ffs he was injured in the last few months of the 03/04 season, and still managed to be top scorer in the league, netting 30 goals.

Ibrahimovic cannot compare to Ronaldo tbh; just look at the fucking statistics for heavens sakes, especially concerning their tenures at Inter, when Ibrahimovic was placed into a time when Italian football was devastated with Calciopoli, surrounded by a very strong squad, while Ronaldo played in Serie A when it was the best league in the world, especially defensively. Isn't it interesting that Ronaldo scored 35 goals in his best season with Inter, and Ibrahimovic couldn't even surpass the 30 goal mark?

Just to point out how important (Ronaldo) was to that Real Madrid side, note that Real were on track to winning a Spanish treble. I remember he scored a hat trick against Manchester United at Old trafford in the CL Quarter finals, knocking them out completely. But following his injury in early 2004, they crashed out of the Champions league, lost the Copa del Rey final, and suffered a complete league form breakdown.

So he was the most important player of that Real Madrid side, which speaks volumes tbh.


All of this is your subjective rumblings to bring Ibrahimović down. You are yet to list me all of Ronaldo's big games, and I'll list you Zlatan's and we'll compare the number. Please don't drag me into a long and boring discussion, just list his ''big games'' at the club level.


:palm: This proves you know SHIT about Ronaldo

THe reason he hasn't been in many key matches is because he's been injured for most of his career; think about how amazing his achievements are for someone who had to stop playing football for 3 years at Inter due to an injury, and was out for a month at least once a year

He was consistently placed in badly organized teams (before Real), but still managed to consistently deliver against any quality of opposition

His performance at the UEFA Cup final in 1997 is truly a testament to his talent and world class ability.


Well isn't it fucking obvious? Has Zlatan ever have a benefit of playing in a national team as good as was 2002. Brazil. Or any Brazil for that matter? Those are rhetorical questions btw.

Maybe you haven't understood yet that even in such a talented Brazil side, Ronaldo scored the only two goals of the world cup final. Not Rivaldo or Ronaldinho, but Ronaldo.

Ibrahimovic would not be able to achieve such a feat EVEN if he was backed up by the same Brazil squad against the same German opposition.

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 13:34
Dont get me wrong - he did well in the smaller games. That's something I do appreciate him a lot for - he is fantastic when carrying a team against smaller opposition.

You keep citing this Parma, Clasic, barca and arsenal bullshit. But you reinforce my point. The fact that you can actually LIST the "big games" he carried us in is laughable already - try and do the same for Messi, Ronaldo, or fuck even Milito/Sneijder in the treble season. He's a long fucking way - as I've just posted and explained thoroughly - frmo being on a level, in big games, to someone like Messi, C. Ronaldo, Milito even (though I am not calling Milito world class). That alone for me means he can NOT be a world class player.

I can probably easily do it for most of those guys. There is definitely a difference between Messi and Ibra, even Ronaldo and Ibra but you listing Milito and Sneijder just shows you that there are some other factors involved. Like being in a good team that suits you strenghts.


- - - Updated - - -




Hey I agree entirely. He's a fucking beast, people will love him for a long time to come - quite rightly, etc etc. He has a unique interpretation of the strikers role which is truly fantastic to watch. He scores spectacular goals VERY regularly. He's a spectacular goalscorer, and a spectacular 'character' in the film of global football. But he does not make the world class category for me.

I was talking about the fat Brazilan tranny fucker.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 13:37
I can probably easily do it for most of those guys. There is definitely a difference between Messi and Ibra, even Ronaldo and Ibra but you listing Milito and Sneijder just shows you that there are some other factors involved. Like being in a good team that suits you strenghts.

I was talking about the fat Brazilan tranny fucker.

Fair enough re: Ronaldo. Sorry, I missed that. Still, that hat trick in the CL against United speaks volumes, for me.

I dont think Sneijder or Milito are world class players. they had spells that BEGAN to look like they should be world class, but they lacked the consistency to be called it. I was using them as examples of people who DO deliver at top class matches consistently. You keep reeling off Clasico+Parma+Arsenal+Barca as if that alone makes it okay. 4 big highlights in a 14+ year career? What about Messi - he probably does 4 highlights in a SEASON. Sneijder had the highlights with the derby where he put Milito through to score, his goal against CSKA, etc. Milito scoring in every stage of the CL that season, both goals to win the Serie A, and the goal to win the Coppa Italia is more than Ibra ever did at Inter, in big matches.

You cant deny that latter fact.

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 13:44
....

Ibrahimovic would not be able to achieve such a feat EVEN if he was backed up by the same Brazil squad against the same German opposition.

No list yet, huh?

Being injured for the most of his career while Ibrahimović is a fucking Iron Man is not something you want to bring up as being some kind of excuse for Ronaldo. A big part of someone being world class is actually staying healthy and playing.

And I was very happy to select this very sentence of yours, you just can't beat this kind of well thought and evidence based argument. He would be able to do it because you, mr. pencilpal says so...LOL.

- - - Updated - - -


Fair enough re: Ronaldo. Sorry, I missed that. Still, that hat trick in the CL against United speaks volumes, for me.

I dont think Sneijder or Milito are world class players. they had spells that BEGAN to look like they should be world class, but they lacked the consistency to be called it. I was using them as examples of people who DO deliver at top class matches consistently. You keep reeling off Clasico+Parma+Arsenal+Barca as if that alone makes it okay. 4 big highlights in a 14+ year career? What about Messi - he probably does 4 highlights in a SEASON. Sneijder had the highlights with the derby where he put Milito through to score, his goal against CSKA, etc. Milito scoring in every stage of the CL that season, both goals to win the Serie A, and the goal to win the Coppa Italia is more than Ibra ever did at Inter, in big matches.

You cant deny that latter fact.

Dominanting against Barcelona and Arsenal like Ibrahimović did recently also speaks volumes, for me.

And it's not 4, there are games against Serie A big teams, multiple games with all the three clubs. There are also goals against elite national teams.

Yes Milito did great as did Sneijder(not just with Inter but with Holland). But Ibrahimović did it also and being world class is not something you base on just one season. Like it's not something that you solely base on ''big'' games, especially if a player has a big list of big game achievements.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 13:45
Dominanting against Barcelona and Arsenal like Ibrahimović did recently also speaks volumes, for me.

And it's not 4, there are games against Serie A big teams, multiple games with all the three clubs. There are also goals against elite national teams.

Yes Milito did great as did Sneijder(not just with Inter but with Holland). But Ibrahimović did it also and being world class is not something you base on just one season. Like it's not something that you solely base on ''big'' games, especially if a player has a big list of big game achievements.

well, I do agree - he's getting CLOSER, much more so in the lats couple of seasons - but he's not there for me yet. If he performs well, say, this season and next season in the CL, then I could probably agree that he is world class in the end, but the aggregate of everything he's done up till now does not cut it for me.

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 13:48
well, I do agree - he's getting CLOSER, much more so in the lats couple of seasons - but he's not there for me yet. If he performs well, say, this season and next season in the CL, then I could probably agree that he is world class in the end, but the aggregate of everything he's done up till now does not cut it for me.

You also agree that this point of view of yours is completely subjective?

Why not just one good CL campaign? Why not three? Why did you draw the line at two, I mean what criteria is there to support it?

.h.
24 Oct 13, 13:50
You also agree that this point of view of yours is completely subjective?

Why not just one good CL campaign? Why not three? Why did you draw the line at two, I mean what criteria is there to support it?

I think I've agreed to that since the very start of this discussion. Ive always said this is my own personal definition.

The reason I draw the line at two, rather than one, is that I want to see some consistency. You can have one good season, if you move to two seasons then you start to be more about 'class' rather than 'form'. Three or more is where you sustain it.

I also don't believe a player simply is or is not world class. Players can be world class for a while, and then no longer are. It's about who is the best in the world at a certain time.

rockball
24 Oct 13, 13:51
PLEASE DO NOT FUCK AROUND AND SPOIL THIS IBRA THREAD. GO OPEN A NEW "WORLD CLASS" THREAD.

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 13:58
I think I've agreed to that since the very start of this discussion. Ive always said this is my own personal definition.

The reason I draw the line at two, rather than one, is that I want to see some consistency. You can have one good season, if you move to two seasons then you start to be more about 'class' rather than 'form'. Three or more is where you sustain it.

I also don't believe a player simply is or is not world class. Players can be world class for a while, and then no longer are. It's about who is the best in the world at a certain time.

Well, for me the big part of being world class is doing it for a longer time on a certain high level. Like scoring more than 20 goals in 7 or 8 season in a row and stuff like that.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 14:02
Well, for me the big part of being world class is doing it for a longer time on a certain high level. Like scoring more than 20 goals in 7 or 8 season in a row and stuff like that.

I understand and appreciate that - it is a sign of class - but quite a few people do that, to be honest. It doesnt necessarily make them world class, though. I expect to see them do it on the very highest level to be world class, for me if a player can't tick that box, it doesn't matter *how* good they are at anything else they do, they won't be world class.

As I said, I'd be more than happy to change my opinion on Ibra - but he's running out of time to deliver at the top level.

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 14:07
I understand and appreciate that - it is a sign of class - but quite a few people do that, to be honest. It doesnt necessarily make them world class, though. I expect to see them do it on the very highest level to be world class, for me if a player can't tick that box, it doesn't matter *how* good they are at anything else they do, they won't be world class.

As I said, I'd be more than happy to change my opinion on Ibra - but he's running out of time to deliver at the top level.

It's obviously not just that(scoring 20+goals) but it makes more sense to me than claiming players make jumps in and out of the world class status on yearly basis. Take Villa or Milito for example, no one really was noticing those players that much until they made their way to Barcelona and Inter.

And they didn't suddenly become world class player at that moment, they were doing their thing for years before that.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 14:09
It's obviously not just that(scoring 20+goals) but it makes more sense to me than claiming players make jumps in and out of the world class status on yearly basis. Take Villa or Milito for example, no one really was noticing those players that much until they made their way to Barcelona and Inter.

And they didn't suddenly become world class player at that moment, they were doing their thing for years before that.
Well, I only partially agree. Villa I knew of before he signed for Barca - but one of the issues there is that, well, are you world class if you dont play in a top competitive team? I mean look at Amauri (for example) - exceptional at Parma. Suazo is another (more extreme) example of that. A lot of people do extremely well in smaller clubs, but they cant make the step to a top club. If you cant make that step, then I would say someone is not world class.

Quaresma is, of course, the EXTREME example of that.

The Wall
24 Oct 13, 14:12
Well, I only partially agree. Villa I knew of before he signed for Barca - but one of the issues there is that, well, are you world class if you dont play in a top competitive team? I mean look at Amauri (for example) - exceptional at Parma. Suazo is another (more extreme) example of that. A lot of people do extremely well in smaller clubs, but they cant make the step to a top club. If you cant make that step, then I would say someone is not world class.

Quaresma is, of course, the EXTREME example of that.

There are some objective circumstances that contributed to Villa and Milito not being transfered earlier not connected to their class. It's like that in football sometimes, not everyone gets the chance at the top club very early.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 14:15
There are some objective circumstances that contributed to Villa and Milito not being transfered earlier not connected to their class. It's like that in football sometimes, not everyone gets the chance at the top club very early.

Oh, I agree, and sometimes a player is only not world class because of unfortunate circumstances. But I wont compromise in the definition, at least not to myself.

Akif
24 Oct 13, 14:17
First person says 'we just have to agree to disagree' shall receive my thanks (literally and the button).

Ru4real
24 Oct 13, 14:35
This thread is seriously entertaining.

Messi is a really good player there is no doubt about this but is he really a truly great player??
I dont think so. A truly great player have scored in a WC final or possibly if that players team win the wc a goal in the semi-final may be enough depending on some circumstances.

Quite frankly Messi is running out of time to prove himself. Hes got 2 or maybe 3 chances left to do so. He is very good player tho im not denying that.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 14:40
This thread is seriously entertaining.

Messi is a really good player there is no doubt about this but is he really a truly great player??
I dont think so. A truly great player have scored in a WC final or possibly if that players team win the wc a goal in the semi-final may be enough depending on some circumstances.

Quite frankly Messi is running out of time to prove himself. Hes got 2 or maybe 3 chances left to do so. He is very good player tho im not denying that.
So I guess for you Messi isnt a world class player, but Ibrahimovic is? I consider the Champions League a much higher level than - to be honest - the world cup. Messi's scored 63 goals in 81 games in the CL, including 29 goals in 40 knock out stage matches..

:yao:

Big Willy
24 Oct 13, 15:11
Messi not world class? Close the thread tbh.

Bergpavian
24 Oct 13, 15:20
browha is like Beetlejuice: Say his name in the Ibra-thread and you will never get rid of him anymore ...



My contribution to this discussion:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO52TJgCQEI

Ffi201zi002tlis
24 Oct 13, 15:39
First person says 'we just have to agree to disagree' shall receive my thanks (literally and the button).
We just have to agree to disagree.

Where are my thanks ?

JJM
24 Oct 13, 15:46
We just have to agree to disagree.

Where are my thanks ?

huh...thank whore


:troll:

.h.
24 Oct 13, 15:55
thank thread?

JJM
24 Oct 13, 16:03
thank thread?

is this some kind of ploy to close this thread?!:yao:

.h.
24 Oct 13, 16:41
fucking thanks whores

Pajo
24 Oct 13, 16:43
Thanks whores... Thanks whores everywhere.

:oblivious:

.h.
24 Oct 13, 16:45
says the man who made an unnecessary post in the thank thread
:yao:

kido
24 Oct 13, 17:08
Love him or hate him, he's brilliant. Fucking artist on the pitch. Respect.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Handoyo
24 Oct 13, 17:20
This thread is seriously entertaining.

Messi is a really good player there is no doubt about this but is he really a truly great player??
I dont think so. A truly great player have scored in a WC final or possibly if that players team win the wc a goal in the semi-final may be enough depending on some circumstances.

Quite frankly Messi is running out of time to prove himself. Hes got 2 or maybe 3 chances left to do so. He is very good player tho im not denying that.
Are you for real?

wera
24 Oct 13, 17:26
I'm sorry, but one or two games over a 10? 12? year career isn't enough. Look at all the disappointments he had for example at Inter.... Remember the game against Liverpool? Or United? Or any of his Juventus CL games? In the CL latter stages, he has always been caught out (barring a couple of cases).



Like I said, if that changes, I will re-assess my opinion. But he's always failed to consistently deliver when the going gets tough.

???

He was the best player at Inter, it's not his fault if our team wasn't good enough for CL. He never had Thiago Motta and Sneijder to pass the ball to him, he never had Pandev and Eto'o to company him on the wings.

Nobody thought Ibra was World Class until his last season at Inter. Amazing, strong player? Yes. But WC like Henry at Arsenal or Eto'o at Barcelona? No.

Are big games the only thing that make somebody world class? Was Cruz world class? He only scored while coming of the bench on big games. Is that good enough to say he is world class?

You talk about not saying Ibra is world class until he shows he is constantly great in big games. I think somewhere in his Barcelona-Milan era he became top3 striker in the world and he still is there. A complete forward, if you may. I also think he delivers at big games. He scores, he assists, he makes the team go forward. Right now, he is for PSG what Cambi means for us, their leader.

Yes, I agree. He didn't do that at Inter. But he matured into a better player in that time. If he isn't world class right now, then the only attacking player that is world class is Messi. And even he doesn't score in every big game....

Rimpel
24 Oct 13, 20:26
Can't wait to see more of his world class goals in the future :troll:

Alan
24 Oct 13, 20:33
PLEASE DO NOT FUCK AROUND AND SPOIL THIS IBRA THREAD. GO OPEN A NEW "WORLD CLASS" THREAD.

Thankyou. Now please, everyone GTFO or GFY(Gofuckyourself)

Devious
24 Oct 13, 21:45
Guys we can settle this once and for all, we might not call him world class, we could just call him a continent class or a country class. not necessarily a world class. he`ll remain a class but not worldly.

pencilpal
24 Oct 13, 22:37
No list yet, huh?

Being injured for the most of his career while Ibrahimović is a fucking Iron Man is not something you want to bring up as being some kind of excuse for Ronaldo. A big part of someone being world class is actually staying healthy and playing.

Interesting that you failed to reply to the rest of my points

Likely because you realized what a shitty argument you're supporting

And Ronaldo didn't have any injury concerns before his three year hiatus from football (after he ripped his tendon against Lecce in 1999). Ffs it was so bad that the first game he returned against Lazio (in a cup final), his knee went under in the first 7 minutes of the match.

And after 2 more years of recovery, he made his comeback in the 2002 FIFA World Cup. When you've returned from a 3 YEAR INJURY and still manage to beast in the most difficult and prestigious tournament in football, scoring two goals in the World Cup final, and being Brazil's best and most important player in one of the greatest national sides in the history of the game, that's when it proves he's a class above the rest

When he was on his game, he was regarded as THE best player in the world, unlike Ibrahimovic.

I showed you his statistics, how he DOMINATES Ibrahimovic in that regard

And proved how he carried ALL of his teams wherever he went

The fact you can recall all the key games Ibrahimovic has played in shows the difference between someone like him and Ronaldo. Not to mention that EVEN if Ronaldo's number was lower, it can easily be attributed to the number of seasons he's missed out due to injury (ffs I even showed how Real missed out on a Spanish treble with his absence)

Unlike myself, you have provided ZERO substantial argumentation to justify your side, and even worse, you haven't even replied to most of my points

The fact you have to resort to ad hominem fallacies demonstrates your weakness

Wallace
24 Oct 13, 22:40
Guys we can settle this once and for all, we might not call him world class, we could just call him a continent class or a country class. not necessarily a world class. he`ll remain a class but not worldly.

I definitely think Zlatan is solar system class.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

.h.
24 Oct 13, 22:51
???

He was the best player at Inter, it's not his fault if our team wasn't good enough for CL. He never had Thiago Motta and Sneijder to pass the ball to him, he never had Pandev and Eto'o to company him on the wings.

Nobody thought Ibra was World Class until his last season at Inter. Amazing, strong player? Yes. But WC like Henry at Arsenal or Eto'o at Barcelona? No.

Are big games the only thing that make somebody world class? Was Cruz world class? He only scored while coming of the bench on big games. Is that good enough to say he is world class?

You talk about not saying Ibra is world class until he shows he is constantly great in big games. I think somewhere in his Barcelona-Milan era he became top3 striker in the world and he still is there. A complete forward, if you may. I also think he delivers at big games. He scores, he assists, he makes the team go forward. Right now, he is for PSG what Cambi means for us, their leader.

Yes, I agree. He didn't do that at Inter. But he matured into a better player in that time. If he isn't world class right now, then the only attacking player that is world class is Messi. And even he doesn't score in every big game....

Even as you state, in your own post wera, Ibrahimovic is not world class, nor was he at Inter...

One of the best footballers in the world at the moment, yes, but he isn't world class sadly.

Big Willy
24 Oct 13, 22:54
Go home man, you're drunk.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 22:57
He's a big game flop, and until he's not a big game flop, he's not world class. Simple as that.

Scoring 4 goals against England in a friendly doesn't mean shit, either.

Shit, if we're going to call Ibrahimovic world class, why dont we loosen it up a bit and add Quagliarella to the list too.

TheNetworkZ
24 Oct 13, 23:02
He's a big game flop, and until he's not a big game flop, he's not world class. Simple as that.

Scoring 4 goals against England in a friendly doesn't mean shit, either.

Shit, if we're going to call Ibrahimovic world class, why dont we loosen it up a bit and add Quagliarella to the list too.

If you ask Juve fans they'll strongly agree.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 23:10
If you ask Juve fans they'll strongly agree.

Hey, if we're going to judge it by spectacular goals, Quagliarella is the 21st century king.

Big Willy
24 Oct 13, 23:21
He's a big game flop, and until he's not a big game flop, he's not world class. Simple as that.

Scoring 4 goals against England in a friendly doesn't mean shit, either.

Shit, if we're going to call Ibrahimovic world class, why dont we loosen it up a bit and add Quagliarella to the list too.

I think the facts he has more than 250 goals, decisive role at Juventus, Inter and Milan and his 26 individual awards, are more important than being a "big game flop" (which is not true at all).

Sorry, but this shouldn't be even in discussion.

wera
24 Oct 13, 23:24
I said he wasn't world class, but is now. :work: Now I stop writing here.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 23:26
I think the facts he has more than 250 goals, decisive role at Juventus, Inter and Milan and his 26 individual awards, are more important than being a "big game flop" (which is not true at all).

Sorry, but this shouldn't be even in discussion.

So what? As I've stated repeatedly - you cant be a world class player unless you deliver on the world class 'level'. In the big games. He's scored, what, 11 goals in 40 big matches in the CL knock out stages, and like 6 in 24 for us in 'big' Serie A games too. If he isn't a big game flop, then no one is.

Wallace
24 Oct 13, 23:31
And what about assists?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

TheNetworkZ
24 Oct 13, 23:35
I think the facts he has more than 250 goals, decisive role at Juventus, Inter and Milan and his 26 individual awards, are more important than being a "big game flop" (which is not true at all).

Sorry, but this shouldn't be even in discussion.

It's just an opinion. Clearly browha's definition of world class is different from others. I personally think Ibra is world class but I can definitely see where he's coming from with this.

At the end of the day "world class" is just individual opinion and not something factual. Do you know how many English people used to tell me Andy Carroll was absolute world class and I disagreed 100% of the time? Sure most of their opinions have probably changed by now lol but it just goes to show everyone has their opinion on a player and also how much the media can effect that.

.h.
24 Oct 13, 23:40
And what about assists?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Is also not *that* high for CL knock out stages or those games, sadly.

Adriano
24 Oct 13, 23:44
one thing is for certain, ibra doesn't score goals...he PAINTS THEM!

Trublue
26 Oct 13, 14:34
I hope to see Sweden and Ibra at the WC 2014 in Brazil instead of Portugal and Ronaldo.

In my opinion he is better than Ronaldo and even Messi. Ibra lifts his team to a higher level, not only PSG but also Malmo, Ajax, Juve, Inter and even Barcelona until Messi started whining because Ibra was the man in the spotlight. If Guardiola wouldn't have been such a foul Ibra would have become a Barça legend. He has an arrogant character and is a true fighter on the field who always wants to win. He's not as selfish as Ronaldo and Messi. With Ibra it's just : you love him or you hate him.

jmaster
26 Oct 13, 17:51
I hope to see Sweden and Ibra at the WC 2014 in Brazil instead of Portugal and Ronaldo.

In my opinion he is better than Ronaldo and even Messi. Ibra lifts his team to a higher level, not only PSG but also Malmo, Ajax, Juve, Inter and even Barcelona until Messi started whining because Ibra was the man in the spotlight. If Guardiola wouldn't have been such a foul Ibra would have become a Barça legend. He has an arrogant character and is a true fighter on the field who always wants to win. He's not as selfish as Ronaldo and Messi. With Ibra it's just : you love him or you hate him.

i almost took you seriously

Alan
26 Oct 13, 21:51
I hope to see Sweden and Ibra at the WC 2014 in Brazil instead of Portugal and Ronaldo.

In my opinion he is better than Ronaldo and even Messi. Ibra lifts his team to a higher level, not only PSG but also Malmo, Ajax, Juve, Inter and even Barcelona until Messi started whining because Ibra was the man in the spotlight. If Guardiola wouldn't have been such a foul Ibra would have become a Barça legend. He has an arrogant character and is a true fighter on the field who always wants to win. He's not as selfish as Ronaldo and Messi. With Ibra it's just : you love him or you hate him.

I wont only press the thank button but I will also post this. Thankyou for this comment, finally I've found a fucking brain on this forum.

Jane The Virgin
27 Oct 13, 00:07
Well, he carried our team to winning scudettos. That gotta count for something...

Cant blame him for not doing any important shit with swedish team, just like you cant blame Messi for doing shit with that argentinian dream-team, or just like you cant blame ronaldo for not doing shit with the portugese side which is at least 5 times the team sweden is.

I was about to say that browha has a point (not that i was going to agree with him) but then he said that in his books Maicon is a WC player, and from what i am reading here he is ok with Cavani and Falcao being considered WC players. Well, this is just a personal thing, like someone allergic to eggs. Or someone being gay. Its not something that can be changed...

Ibra has one of the lowest personalities ever, but as a player saying he is not WC you're just being stubborn... He can not be denied, because for the things that you blame or make him not a WC player, you can blame all of the players, Messi has missed chances, Ronaldo has, Zidane, FatROnaldo, they have all floped big games, everyone has had a bad season/day, that doesnt make them less of a players...

Maybe in your books being WC, a player has to have a great personality, then only 2-3 players would be in that list browha... :D

He hasnt been fortunate with teams, just like Toni wasnt till he exploded at Fiorentina, or Milito for us, and bunch of other cases...

id be totally fine if he breaks his two legs in a training game for PSG, just as i was rooting that to happen while he was a rube and a bbilan player... but while he was at inter... when the score was 0:0, or we were down, there was no other player that i was looking to save us, no maicon, no adri, no fucking figo, not even cruz, nobody but Ibra... god forbind if he wasnt fit for that parma game... :D

KevinB
27 Oct 13, 00:23
Browha, comparing Ibra with Quagliarella. C'mon man. You can do better.


You just have a different opinion upon being 'world class'. And that's fine. But comparing Ibra with Quag is like comparing apples with some low grady small pea.

For me Ibra is world class. Ronaldo, Messi are the top. Just under it but not much is Ibra and Ribéry. Under Ibra I'd rate Van Persie, Rooney, Iniesta, Silva, Aguero, Neuer, Handanovic, Ozil, Mata, ..