PDA

View Full Version : Zlatan Ibrahimovic



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 [61] 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69

.h.
27 Oct 13, 00:53
Well, he carried our team to winning scudettos. That gotta count for something...

Cant blame him for not doing any important shit with swedish team, just like you cant blame Messi for doing shit with that argentinian dream-team, or just like you cant blame ronaldo for not doing shit with the portugese side which is at least 5 times the team sweden is.

I was about to say that browha has a point (not that i was going to agree with him) but then he said that in his books Maicon is a WC player, and from what i am reading here he is ok with Cavani and Falcao being considered WC players. Well, this is just a personal thing, like someone allergic to eggs. Or someone being gay. Its not something that can be changed...

Ibra has one of the lowest personalities ever, but as a player saying he is not WC you're just being stubborn... He can not be denied, because for the things that you blame or make him not a WC player, you can blame all of the players, Messi has missed chances, Ronaldo has, Zidane, FatROnaldo, they have all floped big games, everyone has had a bad season/day, that doesnt make them less of a players...

Maybe in your books being WC, a player has to have a great personality, then only 2-3 players would be in that list browha... :D

He hasnt been fortunate with teams, just like Toni wasnt till he exploded at Fiorentina, or Milito for us, and bunch of other cases...

id be totally fine if he breaks his two legs in a training game for PSG, just as i was rooting that to happen while he was a rube and a bbilan player... but while he was at inter... when the score was 0:0, or we were down, there was no other player that i was looking to save us, no maicon, no adri, no fucking figo, not even cruz, nobody but Ibra... god forbind if he wasnt fit for that parma game... :D

Zidane, who scored in a CL final and carried Madrid? Ronaldo has scored in a CL final as well and currently carries Real to the latter stages of the CL regularly. Fat Ronaldo obviously was largely interrupted by injuries, but the way he came back from injury to get the golden ball and boot in the 2002 world cup was amazing. I dont think yet Cavani and Falcao are. Falcao's a bit closer, but not quite there yet. Maicon was world class without doubt in 2010 and around that sort of time, but he dropped so fricking quickly.

Jane The Virgin
27 Oct 13, 11:15
Zidane, who scored in a CL final and carried Madrid? Ronaldo has scored in a CL final as well and currently carries Real to the latter stages of the CL regularly. Fat Ronaldo obviously was largely interrupted by injuries, but the way he came back from injury to get the golden ball and boot in the 2002 world cup was amazing. I dont think yet Cavani and Falcao are. Falcao's a bit closer, but not quite there yet. Maicon was world class without doubt in 2010 and around that sort of time, but he dropped so fricking quickly.

A player can not be called world class just because one great season, nor be be dethroned of the "world class" title just because he hasnt won CHL.

At least thats what i think.

.h.
27 Oct 13, 11:18
A player can not be called world class just because one great season, nor be be dethroned of the "world class" title just because he hasnt won CHL.

At least thats what i think.
well, this is true of course, even under my definition - but I think Maicon was trly playing at the highest possible level for a couple of years. 09-10, the season before, he was top, probably in the world - Alves wasn't as good as Maicon.

Jane The Virgin
27 Oct 13, 11:26
True, while at his best he was the best in the world, but still that was not a very long period. You can call Maicon a late bloomer.

Zlatan is among the best in the world his entire career, he also plays in a position that has had the best players in the world for decades, a position that requires super abilities (fast, creative, great shot, almost everything) to be recognized among the bunch.

.h.
27 Oct 13, 11:28
Oh, I agree. He is among the best, but if you dont deliver in big games, you aren't world class. That, for me, is an essential box. And the fact that he's delivered in ~5 big games in his career is meaningless, I'm talking about people like Ronaldo or Messi who reasonably consistently deliver in the biggest games. Of course no one delivers in EVERY game, but there's a big difference between Messi/Ronaldo and Ibra's levels of consistency, we cant deny that.

wera
27 Oct 13, 12:29
Yes, I can deny that. Not delivering in big games, smh, where were you the last 4 years?

.h.
27 Oct 13, 12:33
Yes, I can deny that. Not delivering in big games, smh, where were you the last 4 years?

like what? like flopping against us in the CL for Barca? He's played like two good games in the latter stages of the CL in the last 4 years... Scoring 1 in 3 last year, 1 in 4 the year before, 0 in 2 the year before that, and 3 in 5 the year before that.

A total of 5 in 14. My post man delivers more consistently than that. And dont give me the BS about 'oh with zlatan you have to look at the other things he does'. Sort of true, but mostly bullshit. He's a striker, you always bang on about how many (or great) goals he scores. Suddenly this argument stops applying when you look at the CL latter stages? You know why? Because he's a big game flop and you fanboys have to look for other things to defend him over.

He's a big game flop. he's an extremely loveable small game player, with a great highlight reel, but he wont go down in history in the same league as Ronaldo or Messi or people like that.

Jane The Virgin
27 Oct 13, 20:36
Oh, I agree. He is among the best, but if you dont deliver in big games, you aren't world class. That, for me, is an essential box. And the fact that he's delivered in ~5 big games in his career is meaningless, I'm talking about people like Ronaldo or Messi who reasonably consistently deliver in the biggest games. Of course no one delivers in EVERY game, but there's a big difference between Messi/Ronaldo and Ibra's levels of consistency, we cant deny that.


Ok, just so i get an idea of who you consider world class, name me more players except Messi and Roanldo that are active and you consider them world class too.

.h.
27 Oct 13, 23:24
I dont know off hand. Give me some time to think on it, I'll get back to you.

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 00:43
As for consistency, one player has been nominated for ballon d'or more times than Zlatan in the last decade (C.Ronaldo), thats possibly the only player with more nominations ever?

Zlatan has been nominated for that award 7 out of 10 in the first draw in the last 10 years starting at 2003 abit strange he did not get it in 2011 when he brought Milan the title. He will surely be this year again and most likely top his previous best position.

He lost only one league title in the last decade playing for 4 teams in 3 different countries. The one season he did not win the league he still managed to be top scorer in the league and 2nd best ever goal scorer for Milan ever in any season.

He scores more insane goals than anyone i ever saw. Yet he still is one of the best target men in the world if not the best. He also likes to drop deep and play as a playmaker more so than any other striker and as such becoming top assist man in CL last season.

If Z isent wc than i can understand you are having a hard time coming up with any other players than Ronaldo and Messi.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 00:50
Nominations dont mean shit. Tell me when he wins one. You (unless you're Barca) dont win ballon d'or for winning a domestic title. You precisely win it for being the best on the top stage - something Ibra never has done.

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 00:55
Okay so only player who wins ballon d'or can be considered wc, got it.

Im out, you are just sticking to a point for no other reason than thats the point you first stuck with and that doesent interest me to discuss. It does however bug me but im going to try to refrain from coming back .)

.h.
28 Oct 13, 01:04
Okay so only player who wins ballon d'or can be considered wc, got it.

Im out, you are just sticking to a point for no other reason than thats the point you first stuck with and that doesent interest me to discuss. It does however bug me but im going to try to refrain from coming back .)


Did I say that? No I didn't. If you want to argue with me about it, then please at least learn to read. Finishing 2nd in a race with only one winner still makes you a loser, no matter how many times you finish 2nd.

- - - Updated - - -

And feel free to be 'out' if you want, I'll take that as a sign of not actually having a valid counter argument.

Universe
28 Oct 13, 01:08
i have said loads of times why hes better i know am right like i am most off the the time about most things

- - - Updated - - -

i have said loads of times why hes better i know am right like i am most off the the time about most things

Holy shit this is like the best thing I've ever read on this forum

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 01:13
Did I say that? No I didn't. If you want to argue with me about it, then please at least learn to read. Finishing 2nd in a race with only one winner still makes you a loser, no matter how many times you finish 2nd.

- - - Updated - - -

And feel free to be 'out' if you want, I'll take that as a sign of not actually having a valid counter argument.



I dont want to spend my time..
lL9oA1LFoMw

.h.
28 Oct 13, 01:16
I dont want to spend my time..
lL9oA1LFoMw

So, further reinforcing my point, incapable of reading the other side's reasoned position, unable to present a genuine counter-argument, resorting to childish behavior.

Another fan boy bites the dust, next please.

Universe
28 Oct 13, 01:22
Fuck you browha I'll go you next eh, I'll destroy ya cunt (double entendre: like 'I'll destroy you, cunt' and 'I'll destroy your cunt')

You can't possibly beat my fanboyism though admittedly my fanboyism is for Fleetwood Mac more than anything else

Fapuccino
28 Oct 13, 01:35
That's how Browha wins arguments. Tire out the other pokemon, get them to low health points, and throw the poke ball :P

wambam
28 Oct 13, 01:53
Everything about this discussion bothers me so much, so why do I keep checking this thread?

I'm either a masochist, or I need more things to do in my life.

wicked wizard
28 Oct 13, 12:54
browha dosent win arguments its just that other ppl got things to do. we cant all (and dont want) to spend all our time on the internet

- - - Updated - - -

browha dosent win arguments its just that other ppl got things to do. we cant all (and dont want) to spend all our time on the internet

monster09
28 Oct 13, 13:02
Meh, Browha considers RVP as world class and better than Ibra even though Ibra did everything RVP did 5X times and both did fuck all in Champions league.

He just keeps on moving the goal posts when he mentions Falcao, RVP and when someone asks what they have done that Ibra didn't.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 13:13
browha dosent win arguments its just that other ppl got things to do. we cant all (and dont want) to spend all our time on the internet

- - - Updated - - -

browha dosent win arguments its just that other ppl got things to do. we cant all (and dont want) to spend all our time on the internet

Dont worry, I make it not a habit to argue with someone who 'knows' they are correct 'alot off' the time ;)

And, eh, I've not had a pop at anyone for leaving the argument. What I have a pop at people for are posting retarded responses involving youtube links or 'I know I'm correct therefore I win', clearly thus having the TIME to make a response, just not bothering to actually do anything that contributes to the argument.

- - - Updated - - -

more importantly, you clearly have enough time to keep browsing this thread

:alone:

obviously you're just out of things to say, rather than time to keep track.

wicked wizard
28 Oct 13, 13:22
na i dont have time to plus everyone i know who know about football know hes absolutely world class. so am not really going to listen to some internet nerd who probably plays world of war craft all day opinion.

- - - Updated - - -

na i dont have time to plus everyone i know who know about football know hes absolutely world class. so am not really going to listen to some internet nerd who probably plays world of war craft all day opinion.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 13:31
na i dont have time to plus everyone i know who know about football know hes absolutely world class. so am not really going to listen to some internet nerd who probably plays world of war craft all day opinion.

- - - Updated - - -

na i dont have time to plus everyone i know who know about football know hes absolutely world class. so am not really going to listen to some internet nerd who probably plays world of war craft all day opinion.

Hahahaha.

It's very interesting, I have to say, arguing with you.

I like to think we present a nice duality. On the one hand, someone with a perhaps unconventional opinion, who tries his best to articulate his perspective, and quite happy to debate it.

On the other hand someone who doesn't know how to spell, use grammar, and whose opinion consists of nothing but personal attacks, ad hominem, and arrogant assumptions and statements.

Why don't you try to substitute things like:

I know I'm right

When was the last time you played in a professional club

I know more about football than you because I've seen more of Rooney/Cassano than you

I'm a failed youth player [which is the most hilarious thing I've ever read. Something to be proud of? Would you be proud of being a failed plumber's apprentice?]

You're an internet nerd who plays world of warcraft all day


with things like:

I disagree with your statement that Zlatan Ibrahimovic has never consistently delivered in big matches BECAUSE X

I think that you can be world class despite not delivering in big games

I think Zlatan Ibrahimovic is more talented BECAUSE






The sad facts are you know nothing about me, because none of my statements NEED any 'context' about me to back up the argument. I argue from facts and my own opinions, you do nothing but mount personal attacks and try to do very pathetic arguments from authority.


The (very few, ~4) people on this forum who actually know something about me can testify to the fact that your assumptions about me are completely wrong and ridiculous ;)

- - - Updated - - -

It really shows you're a failed youth player ;) Gave up an education for chasing a career that you were not committed enough (As you claim yourself) to deliver on.

Very interesting indeed.

wicked wizard
28 Oct 13, 13:41
i have said loads of times why i think zlatan is world class so what you talking about. and lool about education it got you didn't it to spend all your time having e fights

- - - Updated - - -

i have said loads of times why i think zlatan is world class so what you talking about. and lool about education it got you didn't it to spend all your time having e fights

.h.
28 Oct 13, 13:44
i have said loads of times why i think zlatan is world class so what you talking about. and lool about education it got you didn't it to spend all your time having e fights

- - - Updated - - -

i have said loads of times why i think zlatan is world class so what you talking about. and lool about education it got you didn't it to spend all your time having e fights

No, but the great thing about an education is that it teaches you to think, its not a technical training ;)

You've said the same thing over and never once tried to argue anything I've said, but rather, you say things like 'I'm a failed footballer so i know better than you' and 'all my friends are man utd fans and they think rooney is better than cassano'

Which are all meaningless bullshit statements

wicked wizard
28 Oct 13, 13:56
you might be more educated than me but no way have you got more football common sense than me. and you say the same thing over with your little criteria abot what makes a world class player witch is soo stupid

- - - Updated - - -

you might be more educated than me but no way have you got more football common sense than me. and you say the same thing over with your little criteria abot what makes a world class player witch is soo stupid

.h.
28 Oct 13, 13:59
you might be more educated than me but no way have you got more football common sense than me. and you say the same thing over with your little criteria abot what makes a world class player witch is soo stupid

- - - Updated - - -

you might be more educated than me but no way have you got more football common sense than me. and you say the same thing over with your little criteria abot what makes a world class player witch is soo stupid

You, yet again ,do not understand my point.

Nothing about me matters. It doesn't matter if I'm Sir Alex Ferguson, Ibrahimovic himself, or a homeless man on the street. My level of education doesn't matter - nor, really, does yours. My point is we're trying to have (or at least one of us are) a debate on Zlatan Ibrahimovic, and world class. I've set out my position, I've described it, stated the criteria which I feel Zlatan does not meet which causes him not to be world class, and explained it/evidenced it.

The actual 'reasonable' debates I've had with people who disagree with me, are on whether (a) the criteria is a justified requirement for someone being world class or not [It has been admitted and agreed, by all parties, that I have a 'strict' definition of world class], and (b) whether or not he genuinely fails that criteria. I still will insist, and some people certainly agree, that he does not match the criteria. Some disagree.

That is a well reasoned debate.

The ad hominem shit you keep pulling, is not.

wicked wizard
28 Oct 13, 14:07
who cares about your criteria its not true. and am not saying zlatan reaches your bracket am saying your criteria is wrong because only messi reaches it

- - - Updated - - -

who cares about your criteria its not true. and am not saying zlatan reaches your bracket am saying your criteria is wrong because only messi reaches it

.h.
28 Oct 13, 14:14
who cares about your criteria its not true. and am not saying zlatan reaches your bracket am saying your criteria is wrong because only messi reaches it

- - - Updated - - -

who cares about your criteria its not true. and am not saying zlatan reaches your bracket am saying your criteria is wrong because only messi reaches it

See, now we're finally getting somewhere. It's only taken two years, but we're finally starting to have a discussion. Saying that my criteria is ridiculous because only Messi reaches it *is* a (somewhat) valid point.

But, no, I dont think so really. Let's take the focus off the attackers for a second - where for me Messi and Ronaldo are both world class - and look i midfield. Pirlo, for example, is still a world class midfielder. Perhaps a 'bit' less so this year than last year, but certainly last year he was probably the best midfielder in the world. Xabi Alonso at Liverpool for a couple of years is another nice example, as he did have a large role in carrying a poor Liverpool team to not one but two CL finals. Drogba in the last few years at Chelsea - culminating in winning the CL - is a great example of it. He might not have scored as many goals as he used to have, but even Ferguson openly stated that Drogba single handedly won the CL for them.

Ibrahimovic might well be a much better technical player than Drogba, or someone else like that, but they've actually delivered it on the top stage. My point, before you say it, is not that Drogba won the CL, but rather, the style in which he took the team to the CL.

wicked wizard
28 Oct 13, 14:25
what is it with you and champion league. most them players you mentioned are because of champions league. and there is no way drogbas world class an and zlatans not

- - - Updated - - -

what is it with you and champion league. most them players you mentioned are because of champions league. and there is no way drogbas world class an and zlatans not

.h.
28 Oct 13, 14:28
what is it with you and champion league. most them players you mentioned are because of champions league. and there is no way drogbas world class an and zlatans not

- - - Updated - - -

what is it with you and champion league. most them players you mentioned are because of champions league. and there is no way drogbas world class an and zlatans not

IF (which it isnt) my definition of world class was simply 'people who'd won the Champions League', then Drogba would clearly be world class and Ibrahimovic not...

The POINT is about the level of competition. If a player carries a conference north team to 25 consecutive title wins, does he become world class? Clearly not. So, thus, the LEVEL of the competition MUST ALSO be a factor in deciding whether a player is world class or not, right? I mean, that is inherently true? No one has ever called someone playing football in a park world class.

I consider the Champions League to be the foremost competition in the WORLD today. You take the best teams from the best leagues in the world and pit them off. It is the TESTING ground for world class players - and you cannot be world class if you don't do well in it.

You cannot be world class unless you've delivered consistently against world class players. Something Ibrahimovic has failed at repeatedly over his career.

Simple as that, to be honest. Simple as that.

wicked wizard
28 Oct 13, 14:38
if the champions league was really a league that had the best teams in the world init i would considered it the best of the best. but its more about luck really you play a pointles group stage then knocked out stages where you could get a easy draw. i mean you could win the cl playing 1 or 2 or would class teams. performing in a year constantly in a league is harder imo

- - - Updated - - -

if the champions league was really a league that had the best teams in the world init i would considered it the best of the best. but its more about luck really you play a pointles group stage then knocked out stages where you could get a easy draw. i mean you could win the cl playing 1 or 2 or would class teams. performing in a year constantly in a league is harder imo

.h.
28 Oct 13, 14:45
if the champions league was really a league that had the best teams in the world init i would considered it the best of the best. but its more about luck really you play a pointles group stage then knocked out stages where you could get a easy draw. i mean you could win the cl playing 1 or 2 or would class teams. performing in a year constantly in a league is harder imo

- - - Updated - - -

if the champions league was really a league that had the best teams in the world init i would considered it the best of the best. but its more about luck really you play a pointles group stage then knocked out stages where you could get a easy draw. i mean you could win the cl playing 1 or 2 or would class teams. performing in a year constantly in a league is harder imo

When Barca and Real only really have each other to play, and score record high points in La Liga year on year, I disagree. When the best team in Serie A is easily destroyed in the CL, I again have to disagree.

In no league in the world do you come up simultaneously against Gotze, Ribery, Robben, Chiellini, Higuain, Ronaldo, Messi, Ozil, Ibrahimovic, Thiago Silva, Neymar, etc. No league in the world can even offer 50% of that challenge.

And whilst you are right, there is some element of luck to it, to get to the quarters, the semis, or the final you *really* have to beat some big sides. Look at our CL win - we beat the previous CL winners, the Premiership champions, the Russian champions, the German champions. That was fucking competitive, and we did it.

- - - Updated - - -

As an example, let's look at the period in which most people are talking about - Ibra at Inter 2006-2009. Who was truly world class in Serie A at the time? And how many world class players did we have to face? There's a reason why we did so well in the league, but failed in Europe to average (AT BEST) opposition.

wicked wizard
28 Oct 13, 14:52
yes but you dont face them teams with them playes week in week out in the cl you play a lot of shit teams too. cl a bouns a nice one but a bouns

- - - Updated - - -

yes but you dont face them teams with them playes week in week out in the cl you play a lot of shit teams too. cl a bouns a nice one but a bouns

.h.
28 Oct 13, 15:05
yes but you dont face them teams with them playes week in week out in the cl you play a lot of shit teams too. cl a bouns a nice one but a bouns

- - - Updated - - -

yes but you dont face them teams with them playes week in week out in the cl you play a lot of shit teams too. cl a bouns a nice one but a bouns

Well ,you're correct there also (See, isn't having a proper discussion on the topic so much more fun?) but at the same time, most of the teams who make the CL group stages PROBABLY do 'deserve' to be there in some aspect - I'd love to see an actual test between some of the weaker CL sides and someone like Norwich, for example. BUT at the same time, by the time you hit the knock out stages, that element is pretty much gone.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, I just want to ask:

Are you in agreement (broadly) with me that you have to perform at the highest level to be considered world class? And that we just disagree on what that highest level ACTUALLY is? I.e. You agree that a player in Conference North, no matter how good, can not be world class?

wicked wizard
28 Oct 13, 15:14
if they was a player in Conference North with a much ability than zlatan and scored the type of goals he does would have world class ability. but he would have to go to pl,seria a, germany spain to prove it. doing good just in the cl dose not make you world class

- - - Updated - - -

if they was a player in Conference North with a much ability than zlatan and scored the type of goals he does would have world class ability. but he would have to go to pl,seria a, germany spain to prove it. doing good just in the cl dose not make you world class

.h.
28 Oct 13, 15:15
if they was a player in Conference North with a much ability than zlatan and scored the type of goals he does would have world class ability. but he would have to go to pl,seria a, germany spain to prove it. doing good just in the cl dose not make you world class

- - - Updated - - -

if they was a player in Conference North with a much ability than zlatan and scored the type of goals he does would have world class ability. but he would have to go to pl,seria a, germany spain to prove it. doing good just in the cl dose not make you world class

So if a player scores 50 goals in a season in the Conference North, you think he (may) have world class ability?

Come off it. You must be able to see how ridiculous that is.

wicked wizard
28 Oct 13, 15:24
if they was a player called big john peter and scored 50 headers and tapins i wouldn't care but if he scored the wonder goals and had the ability like zlatan ofcores i might think he could be world class but obviously could not say because the level is so low

- - - Updated - - -

if they was a player called big john peter and scored 50 headers and tapins i wouldn't care but if he scored the wonder goals and had the ability like zlatan ofcores i might think he could be world class but obviously could not say because the level is so low

Bergpavian
28 Oct 13, 15:43
Ibrahimovic scored more goals on European level than Trezeguet, Papin, Crespo, Kluivert, Rooney, Makaay, Eto, Gomez, RVP, van Basten etc. but he didn't score enough goals in CL knockout stage.

He carried us, Bilan and PSG to 5 domestic championships but he wasn't able to win the CL with any of this teams.

He managed to become Italian, Swedish and French player of the year multiple times and won a lot of other individual Awards but he only was nominated for Ballon d'Or.

He generated the highest transfer fee and is one of the best payed players in the world but so did Anelka and so is Dario Conca.

He managed to become the first player scoring at least two goals in three different EUROs and just scored the decisive goal to bring Sweden to the WC playoff but wasn't able to win the EURO or WC with Sweden (btw: look at the shitty United legends Best and Giggs that didn't even make it to a big tournament).

God, browha! When it's about Ibrahimovic your arguments are really shit. Don't come up with some big game nonsense because he proved himself there too. Either there are only two world class players with Messi and Ronaldo at the moment or Ibrahimovic is one too.

You remind me of guy of my class when we did some hiking: 21 said it was a beautiful tour and one said it wasn't. "It was too hot, my feet hurt. Buhuhu."

.h.
28 Oct 13, 16:05
Ibrahimovic scored more goals on European level than Trezeguet, Papin, Crespo, Kluivert, Rooney, Makaay, Eto, Gomez, RVP, van Basten etc. but he didn't score enough goals in CL knockout stage.

He carried us, Bilan and PSG to 5 domestic championships but he wasn't able to win the CL with any of this teams.

He managed to become Italian, Swedish and French player of the year multiple times and won a lot of other individual Awards but he only was nominated for Ballon d'Or.

He generated the highest transfer fee and is one of the best payed players in the world but so did Anelka and so is Dario Conca.

He managed to become the first player scoring at least two goals in three different EUROs and just scored the decisive goal to bring Sweden to the WC playoff but wasn't able to win the EURO or WC with Sweden (btw: look at the shitty United legends Best and Giggs that didn't even make it to a big tournament).

God, browha! When it's about Ibrahimovic your arguments are really shit. Don't come up with some big game nonsense because he proved himself there too. Either there are only two world class players with Messi and Ronaldo at the moment or Ibrahimovic is one too.

You remind me of guy of my class when we did some hiking: 21 said it was a beautiful tour and one said it wasn't. "It was too hot, my feet hurt. Buhuhu."

I've dispelled the big game myth plenty of times in the last few posts. If you don't want to bother reading them - fine. If you want to address that issue and try to persuade me I'm wrong - also fine. He's not even close to the highest transfer fee, but you also ignore the fact that he represents one of the biggest write-downs on a transfer in history as well. You list of titles he 'carried' people to nicely summarises the point - we weren't exactly in a competitive league, and PSG weren't either.

Who else in Serie A was on a top class level at the time, though? Or even in Ligue 1? Or Sweden? It's not like he's only been playing in shit teams for the Champions League - Milan when they had Silva and Ibrahimovic were actually a pretty good side. We underperformed (though were never competitive to win it). He's just a big game flop - and the problem with Zlatan is that for smaller games you build your entire team around him, so that when he does flop, it affects the whole team. For most 'good' players, at least the team is pretty resiliant to that.

- - - Updated - - -


if they was a player called big john peter and scored 50 headers and tapins i wouldn't care but if he scored the wonder goals and had the ability like zlatan ofcores i might think he could be world class but obviously could not say because the level is so low

- - - Updated - - -

if they was a player called big john peter and scored 50 headers and tapins i wouldn't care but if he scored the wonder goals and had the ability like zlatan ofcores i might think he could be world class but obviously could not say because the level is so low

Indeed - but as you say yourself, could be world class. The level is too low to test. I assert the same is true for ANY domestic league. The Premiership is probably the only 'tight' league at the moment, and I would argue the standard of the top clubs is down, rather than the standard of the middle clubs being up.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, shit, the depreciation in value of Ibrahimovic at Barca in 1 year is even more serious than the depreciation in value of Blackberry in the last year :oblivious: and anyone would say blackberry are in serious trouble

Bergpavian
28 Oct 13, 16:28
I've dispelled the big game myth plenty of times in the last few posts. If you don't want to bother reading them - fine. If you want to address that issue and try to persuade me I'm wrong - also fine. He's not even close to the highest transfer fee, but you also ignore the fact that he represents one of the biggest write-downs on a transfer in history as well. You list of titles he 'carried' people to nicely summarises the point - we weren't exactly in a competitive league, and PSG weren't either.

Who else in Serie A was on a top class level at the time, though? Or even in Ligue 1? Or Sweden? It's not like he's only been playing in shit teams for the Champions League - Milan when they had Silva and Ibrahimovic were actually a pretty good side. We underperformed (though were never competitive to win it). He's just a big game flop - and the problem with Zlatan is that for smaller games you build your entire team around him, so that when he does flop, it affects the whole team. For most 'good' players, at least the team is pretty resiliant to that.

You've dispelled the big game myth plenty of times in the last few posts? You come up with the same time and time again and it's not getting more true because of that. And he generated the highest transfer fee.

And yes, he always is just the best because all other players he in the league he plays suck. And he always just moves to the best teams in the league so he has not to be afraid to not win the domestic title.

Your argumentation is so ... He always moves to the best team in a not competitive league. But the same team isn't that good at all because their game has to be built around a single player - him. And when he doesn't play good the same great team plays shit because normally he is the one who carries it. But he isn't that good because as the best player in the best team he isn't able to carry his team to the CL victory. I really don't get it: Are the teams really that great - but then they should manage to compensate for Ibra playing bad. Or is Ibra that great that they win their titles thanks to him?

You know ... when 99% of the people say something different than my opinion although I think I have the best argumentation in the world I start to reflect ...

Jane The Virgin
28 Oct 13, 16:34
In order for this convo to go on, imo, browha needs to provide a list of at least 10 other active world class players, then we can start making comparisons and see if there is double standard etc etc.

If on that list are attackers like Cavani, RVP and Rooney, than browha should admit that he is wrong by saying Ibra is not world class. At least this is what i think, some rationality wont hurt anyone.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 16:41
You've dispelled the big game myth plenty of times in the last few posts? You come up with the same time and time again and it's not getting more true because of that. And he generated the highest transfer fee.

Fine, let's do this point by point. I don't feel that is correct. I've quoted statistics from a range of years in his career - and a range of statistics. No one disputes them - you can't, they're facts - but tries to 'frame' them in a better light. But however you cut it, it's 5 in 14 (?? I cant be bothered scrolling back to check the exact numbrs) and something like 11 in 40 for Inter in big games. That is simply not good enough for a supposed 'big game' player. Compare those stats, for example, to Rooney in a big match, to Van Persie, to Falcao, to Ronaldo, to Messi (I'm not saying all of them are world class - clearly - just as examples of other strikers in the world who DO deliver in big games).




And yes, he always is just the best because all other players he in the league he plays suck. And he always just moves to the best teams in the league so he has not to be afraid to not win the domestic title.


So what does that say about him? If you spend your life in shitty leagues, you cant be world class, right? See conference north example in previous posts.


Your argumentation is so ... He always moves to the best team in a not competitive league. But the same team isn't that good at all because their game has to be built around a single player - him. And when he doesn't play good the same great team plays shit because normally he is the one who carries it. But he isn't that good because as the best player in the best team he isn't able to carry his team to the CL victory. I really don't get it: Are the teams really that great - but then they should manage to compensate for Ibra playing bad. Or is Ibra that great that they win their titles thanks to him?
Well, look at us for example. We won the leagues quite easily just because we had a stupidly defensive and physical midfield (Dacourt/Vieira - Cambiasso - Zanetti). And Ibrahimovic wasn't THAT important in the first couple of years - bla bla Parma, yes I understand, but still, he only scored 1 more goal than Cruz in the first year. It was only his third year he was a cut above the rest of the team. But I still think we would have clearly won at LEAST 06/07 and 07/08 without Ibrahimovic - and who knows who we'd have in his place in 08/09.



You know ... when 99% of the people say something different than my opinion although I think I have the best argumentation in the world I start to reflect ...

Well, the number of times that's happened in history and the 99% have been proven to be wrong is quite significant ;) if there's one thing history teaches us it's that the masses CAN be very stupid ;)

- - - Updated - - -


In order for this convo to go on, imo, browha needs to provide a list of at least 10 other active world class players, then we can start making comparisons and see if there is double standard etc etc.

If on that list are attackers like Cavani, RVP, Rooney, than browha should admit that he is wrong by saying ibra is not world class. At least this is what i think, some rationality wont hurt anyone.

Well, remember, my definition of world class is somewhere between best players in a position and world's best XI

To that extent, my XI would be SOMETHING LIKE BUT NOT NECESSARILY

Neuer
Lahm Silva Kompany/Chiellini Alba/Cole/Baines
Ozil/Iniesta/Fabregas Schweinsteiger Vidal/Toure
Messi Ronaldo Ribery


Now, you'll say a lot of those players aren't as good as Ibrahimovic. That is certainly true. But the point is they are the best in the world at their position. For example, I think (off the top of my head - feel free to give me some suggestions) Vidal is probably one of the best modern midfielders in the game. Similarly Baines is probably about one of the best left backs in the world today (much to my dismay, naturally)

Jane The Virgin
28 Oct 13, 16:46
Ok so what are you actually saying is that in a 4-3-3 formation that is your starting eleven.

You have limited your answer way too much. In other words you dont consider any striker to be a world class player at the moment, because Messi, Ronaldo and Ribery are not strikers, they are just good enough to play as strikers and score tons of goals (at least messi and ronaldo).

So Ibra is not a world class striker, but in your books there are no world class strikers at the moment... Well, if thats what you think - its what you think, gotta say that your standards are pretty god damn high lol :D

.h.
28 Oct 13, 16:50
Ok so what are you actually saying is that in a 4-3-3 formation that is your starting eleven.

You have limited your answer way too much. In other words you dont consider any striker to be a world class player at the moment, because Messi, Ronaldo and Ribery are not strikers, they are just good enough to play as strikers and score tons of goals (at least messi and ronaldo).

So Ibra is not a world class striker, but in your books there are no world class strikers at the moment... Well, if thats what you think - its what you think, gotta say that your standards are pretty god damn high lol :D

Well, I think in the 'attackers' department simply put no one compares to Messi or Ronaldo at the moment. I've said time and time again that Ibrahimovic is the closest to being on their level in terms of actual ability right now, but that he's always lacked the delivery for me to be competitive. It's not that I think they are 'better' technically, or anything like that, but rather, they know how to deliver when a team needs in on the top level. Which is something Ibrahimovic is - and I think we can ALL agree on this - inconsistent at best, if even capable of it (I lean towards the latter)


Yeah, I agree, my standards are stupidly high, which is why if people want to have a different definition of world class, they are more than welcome to. But, for me, a world class player is one who can do that 'something special' on the very top level. The guy who, in the CL final, knows how to stand out from the rest of the players. The guy everyone looks to to carry their team to the final victory. Which, sadly, as you go into the later stages of the Champions League, is not Ibrahimovic

Big Willy
28 Oct 13, 16:52
The levels of football knowledge (?) here are too damn high.

Jane The Virgin
28 Oct 13, 16:54
Well im gonna play a browha card on Ronaldo now, and say that he is not world class. Scores 100 goals in a season, flops when mostly needed against barca games and chl knockout stages, he had just one great season with ManU under Fergie when he won CHL and ballon d'or and thats it, after that he has been a shadow, scoring hat-tricks against Elche, Granada and Getafe dont make you a world class...

You gotta admit, it makes sense... :)

.h.
28 Oct 13, 16:54
The levels of football knowledge (?) here are too damn high.

Well, I Think it's been an interesting conversation. Nice to see at least a couple people agree with me, and a few more understand what I'm saying.


Plus, if nothing else, wicked wizard has actually learned to have a decent debate with counter-points rather than just insulting someone or using BS statements. So that's a big plus.

Big Willy
28 Oct 13, 16:57
Well, you learn something new everyday, props to Wicked Wizard. :)

I haven't seen any insults here though.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 16:58
Well im gonna play a browha card on Ronaldo now, and say that he is not world class. Scores 100 goals in a season, flops when mostly needed against barca games and chl knockout stages, he had just one great season with ManU under Fergie when he won CHL and ballon d'or and thats it, after that he has been a shadow, scoring hat-tricks against Elche, Granada and Getafe dont make you a world class...

You gotta admit, it makes sense... :)

Well, I actually looked at that a few posts ago - Last season he was 6 in 6 in the latter stages of the CL, scoring 6 in 6 vs Barca in domestic trophies. The season before he was 4 in 6 vs Barca, scoring 7 in 6 in the CL latter stages, 10/11 we have 2 in 6 in the CL latter stages and 2 in 3 in domestic competitions vs Barca...

You have to admit, though, those statistics are QUITE different to Ibrahimovic's.

- - - Updated - - -


Well, you learn something new everyday, props to Wicked Wizard. :)

I haven't seen any insults here though.
Ah previous threads, and pages ago. Doesn't matter now ;) at least he's moved on from it.

Ed.
28 Oct 13, 17:02
why cares so much about ibrahimovic? zzz.. he doesn't even give a fuck about himself.

Jane The Virgin
28 Oct 13, 17:22
Well, I actually looked at that a few posts ago - Last season he was 6 in 6 in the latter stages of the CL, scoring 6 in 6 vs Barca in domestic trophies. The season before he was 4 in 6 vs Barca, scoring 7 in 6 in the CL latter stages, 10/11 we have 2 in 6 in the CL latter stages and 2 in 3 in domestic competitions vs Barca...

You have to admit, though, those statistics are QUITE different to Ibrahimovic's.


True, but the minute we start with statistics we have to go even more into detalis - see the teammates of Ronaldo and the ones that Ibra had, the coaches, the opponents.

Ibra had shit teammates at Inter and bilan by your and mine standards comparing to the ones Ronaldo had in ManU and Real. Then we come to the coaches, Ronaldo was blessed to be coached and grown by Fergie whereas Ibra lol Mancini :D

Cant say much about the opponents in CHL but i remember our team vs manU and theirs was better.

Anyway my point was that if we get to statistics and what i just wrote we wont get an answer to this.

Im satisfied with you saying Ibra is the next best thing right after Messi and Ronaldo, which makes him a top 3 player in the world, a bronze medal. And just by stating that you unintentionally admit that he is world class.

He is the number 3 striker in the world, there are only 2 better than him, id say just Messi is better than him but, but thats just me.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 17:25
True, but the minute we start with statistics we have to go even more into detalis - see the teammates of Ronaldo and the ones that Ibra had, the coaches, the opponents.

Ibra had shit teammates at Inter and bilan by your and mine standards comparing to the ones Ronaldo had in ManU and Real. Then we come to the coaches, Ronaldo was blessed to be coached and grown by Fergie whereas Ibra lol Mancini :D

Cant say much about the opponents in CHL but i remember our team vs manU and theirs was better.

Anyway my point was that if we get to statistics and what i just wrote we wont get an answer to this.

Im satisfied with you saying Ibra is the next best thing right after Messi and Ronaldo, which makes him a top 3 player in the world, a bronze medal. And just by stating that you unintentionally admit that he is world class.

He is the number 3 striker in the world, there are only 2 better than him, id say just Messi is better than him but, but thats just me.

Well, sure. I've never argued that Ibrahimovic isn't one of the best, I just think there's just a LITTLE bit missing from his game to put him on the same level as Ronaldo or Messi. And, sadly, that little bit missing is the most important part - the delivery.

He's DEFINITELY the best of the rest, but he is more in the 'the rest' category than he is in the 'the best' category, sadly.

The reason why, for example, Falcao, Cavani, people like that get mentioned is because they have the time and opportunity still to become world class. Falcao needs a big move, and either Cavani needs to really show himself at PSG and set some hell of a pace on the european level, or move to another club where he can. For Ibrahimovic, I can see this being one of his last 'brilliant' seasons. Age is sadly not on his side.
One of the problems is that it took him so long to really get into a good gear. 2009 is his first really REALLY good season for us - and he was 28? 29?

If he'd done it a few years younger, I'd have more confidence.

wicked wizard
28 Oct 13, 17:36
its a insult to real football to say Ronaldos on a other level to ibra. i mean his just makes them runs and scores and against the very best team it does not work.

- - - Updated - - -

its a insult to real football to say Ronaldos on a other level to ibra. i mean his just makes them runs and scores and against the very best team it does not work.

wera
28 Oct 13, 17:58
Wow u said fabregas :awyeah:

.h.
28 Oct 13, 17:59
I think my statistics from the previous posts prove your ronaldo point wrong.

Big Willy
28 Oct 13, 18:06
Ultimate chill, everyone.

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 18:31
One can prove anything with stats.

Zlatan usually goes out against Barcelona in CL but has a better record against them despite playing for a far lesser team than Ronaldo or atleast according to the sources i can find.

They claim Ronaldo has scored 0 in 5 games against Barcelona in Champions league. No assists either.
Or if you want to count the league as well Ronaldo has 4 in 14 against Barcelona + 1 assist.

Hows that for a monster stat when it really matters ?

Zlatan has 2 goals and 3 assists in 5 against them in CL for comparisons sake.
Zlatan has not played against Barcelona in the league but he has played against R Madrid and manage to score 1 in 45 min.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 19:14
One can prove anything with stats.

Zlatan usually goes out against Barcelona in CL but has a better record against them despite playing for a far lesser team than Ronaldo or atleast according to the sources i can find.

They claim Ronaldo has scored 0 in 5 games against Barcelona in Champions league. No assists either.
Or if you want to count the league as well Ronaldo has 4 in 14 against Barcelona + 1 assist.

Hows that for a monster stat when it really matters ?

Zlatan has 2 goals and 3 assists in 5 against them in CL for comparisons sake.
Zlatan has not played against Barcelona in the league but he has played against R Madrid and manage to score 1 in 45 min.

Yes, and I looked at Ronaldo's stats across ALL Big games, just as I did with Zlatan's stats.... :palm:

The *point* is that, for someone who everyone loves to rave about his goals, his assists, and his all round play, those stats suddenly and very quickly go out the window when it comes to the big games, when for other 'big' players, they're still there..

Please read my posts before you reply in future. It's a waste of your time, and what's infinitely more important, my time, if you don't.

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 19:25
Lol dude i dident even quote you so why should i limit myself to the stats you handpicked. I obviously showed you a completely different stat..

You say you are interested in a good discussion and this is the response you come back with? Laughable.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 19:27
Lol dude i dident even quote you..

You say you are interested in a good discussion and this is the response you come back with? Laughable.
You aren't even coming close to anything I mentioned, though. I discuss big games only - and without bias, I calculate EVERY big game - and yeah, you come out with some ridiculous and reasonably arbitrary statistic.

Well, Ibrahimovic has never scored against Stoke on Trent, Arnautovic and Ronaldo have, enough said.

:yao:

If you want to do a debate, which is fine, then be reasonable..

- - - Updated - - -

and also please for the love of god dont make me give you a statistics course on significance and uncertainties...

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 19:34
Im suppose to be reasonable. Hahaha this is some funny stuff.

Im sorry but i dident know i was not allowed to present stats of my own to show that ronaldo really isent all that in the biggest of games for him. Those against Barca in the league and obviously CL vs Barca as well.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 19:37
Fine, then I quote from earlier:


Well, I actually looked at that a few posts ago - Last season he was 6 in 6 in the latter stages of the CL, scoring 6 in 6 vs Barca in domestic trophies. The season before he was 4 in 6 vs Barca, scoring 7 in 6 in the CL latter stages, 10/11 we have 2 in 6 in the CL latter stages and 2 in 3 in domestic competitions vs Barca...

You have to admit, though, those statistics are QUITE different to Ibrahimovic's.

- - - Updated - - -

And yes, I find the fact that you find 'being reasonable' so amusing very entertaining

wambam
28 Oct 13, 19:54
You guys suck.
That is all

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 20:04
You seemed to have missed my point. My point was not to show Ronaldo isent a great player, i think he is. My point was to show you that you can "prove" anything with statistics.

Your handpicked stats shown above is quite different from those of ibrahimovic, i can agree to that in light of the fact that one can prove anything with statistics such as:

Ibra´s stats vs Barcelona in Champions league are far superior to those of Ronaldo´s against Barcelona in Champions league. Sample size are pretty good at 5 games as well. I doubt we will find another team which they both played against 5 times or more.

Ibra´s stats in el classico are also far superior to those of Ronaldo´s in el classico. Here the sample size is pretty useless but hey its a stat.

I think you can see where im going with this.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 20:06
You seemed to have missed my point. My point was not to show Ronaldo isent a great player, i think he is. My point was to show you that you can "prove" anything with statistics.

Your handpicked stats shown above is quite different from those of ibrahimovic, i can agree to that in light of the fact that one can prove anything with statistics such as:

Ibra´s stats vs Barcelona in Champions league are far superior to those of Ronaldo´s against Barcelona in Champions league. Sample size are pretty good at 5 games as well. I doubt we will find another team which they both played against 5 times or more.

Ibra´s stats in el classico are also far superior to those of Ronaldo´s in el classico. Here the sample size is pretty useless but hey its a stat.

I think you can where im going with this.

Yes, I can agree to that. At the same time, my point was that with quite a large sample size on the 'big games', Ibra vs Ronaldo is clearly at least one different league, possibly more. There's no specific bias or any selection requirement in that - its just a blanket application of all 'big game'. Which gives it quite a significant statistical sample and power.

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 20:08
Well now we can debate what is considered a "big game" and show different statistics for that but its hard work to find good stats and even if we both did the other could easily prove just the opposite so for those reason im out.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 20:10
Well now we can debate what is considered a "big game" and show different statistics for that but its hard work to find good stats and even if we both did the other could easily prove just the opposite so for those reason im out.

I made my definition quite clear earlier;

A big game - in La Liga (and domestic cups) - was Real vs Barca, and anything after the group stage of the CL, exclusively.

For Ibrahimovic, during the time period we're concerned, I considered it Inter vs Milan/Juve/Roma, and the same definition on the CL.


I think those are reasonable, blanket, and fair. One can make a case for adding, say, Athletico or Valencia or someone to the La Liga one, but given the difference between number 2 and number 3 in La Liga speaks volumes

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 20:20
So games between Milan and Inter were not "big games"? I dont agree and i bet many here would disagree with this as well. This could go on forever.

Fact remain even players as great as ronaldo have some shitty stats if you want to find them. Ronaldo 0 in 5 when it matters the most against Barca in cl! 4 in 14 total with only one single assist when counting the league as well and thats even in a league where these el classicos tend to decide the title race on their own.

Only won 1 title worth mentioning in the last 5 seasons. Yet somehow he is a great champion who does not bottle when it matters.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 20:40
So games between Milan and Inter were not "big games"? I dont agree and i bet many here would disagree with this as well. This could go on forever.


For Ibrahimovic, during the time period we're concerned, I considered it Inter vs Milan/Juve/Roma, and the same definition on the CL.

....

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 20:47
Oh my bad. But its to much work for me and the reward is too small.

I started on some ibra stats some time ago (thus realizing how much time it takes to gather statistics).

Heres ibras last season against the top 4 clubs in ligue1 and cl + nt.


Marseille away: 2 goals
Marsielle home: 1 goal

Lyon home: Nothing
Lyon away: 1 assist

Nice home: 1 goal + 1 assist
Nice away: 1 goal

Total: 6 games = 5 goals + 2 assists

Note: Won topscorer by far with his 30 goals. He also had 7 assists.


Psg Champions league group stage:

Kiev home: 1 goal
Kiev away: 1 assist

Porto home: nothing
Porto away: nothing

Sagreb home: 4 assists
Sagreb away: 1 goal

Total: 6 games = 2 goals 5 assists


Psg Champions league KO rounds

Valencia home: Nothing
Valencia away: did not play

Barcelona home: 1 goal + 1 assist
Barcelona away: 1 assist

Total: 3 games = 1 goal + 2 assists

Note: Top assister in CL 2012 / 2013



For Sweden NT in Euros

Ukraine: 1 goal
England: 1 assist
France: 1 goal + 1 assist

Total: 3 games = 2 goals + 2 assists


Total for all games of ”greater importance” during 2012/13

18 games = 10 goals + 11 assists

TheNetworkZ
28 Oct 13, 20:59
Change the thread title to Browha vs the world please.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 21:07
Oh my bad. But its to much work for me and the reward is too small.

I started on some ibra stats some time ago (thus realizing how much time it takes to gather statistics).

Heres ibras last season against the top 4 clubs in ligue1 and cl + nt.

There's a reason why I didn't include the top 4 clubs in ligue 1. Last year, after PSG, there's a real fucking big drop off. Iraq had the world's 4th or 5th largest army when the US invaded them, in the 90s, that was hardly a 'tight' fight. Correct me if I'm wrong but didnt Marseille have a whole XI which was cheaper than a single PSG player?

This is one of the reasons why I haven't just arbitrarily defined 'big matches' as games against the final top 4 in the league.




Psg Champions league group stage:

Kiev home: 1 goal
Kiev away: 1 assist

Porto home: nothing
Porto away: nothing

Sagreb home: 4 assists
Sagreb away: 1 goal

Total: 6 games = 2 goals 5 assists


Again, not big clubs. The only one remotely like a challenge there is Porto, and oh look... nothing.




Psg Champions league KO rounds

Valencia home: Nothing
Valencia away: did not play

Barcelona home: 1 goal + 1 assist
Barcelona away: 1 assist

Total: 3 games = 1 goal + 2 assists


Now we're talking. Why did he not play the 2nd leg? Oh yeah, red card.

He was, granted, actually semi-decent against Barca last year, but still hardly anything to write home about...

- - - Updated - - -

And notice for this season, he's already behind Falcao, Cavani, Berigaud, Dordevic, Riviere, Cvitanich, Diabate, Oliveira in the scoring charts...

I'm sure some of those are names of diseases, not actual players...

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 21:14
You handpick your statistics so much, its painfully obvious for anyone.

In the same post above that you say that the games against top 4 clubs in ligue1 is not relevant you also further down say that cavani and more players are ahead of him in the scoring chart against the same teams (actually even worse team by your definition) Yet Cavani is far behind in CL where it matters right? Why did you not bring that up instead? ffs make up your mind, you cant have the cake and eat it too no matter how hard you try..

And for the record the idea is for ibra to drop deep even more this season as they now also got Cavani to score.

The more you talk the more you paint yourself in the "i just want to make ibra look bad no matter what he does camp". Atleast thats what it look like to me.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 21:20
You handpick your statistics so much, its painfully obvious for anyone.

In the same post above that you say that the games against top 4 clubs in ligue1 is not relevant you also further down say that cavani and more players are ahead of him in the scoring chart against the same teams (actually even worse team by your definition) Yet Cavani is far behind in CL where it matters right? Why did you not bring that up instead? ffs make up your mind, you cant have the cake and eat it too no matter how hard you try..



I'm OBVIOUSLY TALKING ABOUT 2012/2013 BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE SEASONS YOU PICKED THE FUCKING STATISTICS FOR!!! The amendment onto the end of the post was just 'of interest' for the current season. :palm: holy jesus that's unbelievably facepalm.

Holy motherfucking jesus, are you an account for multiple people or something? Or do you just have no ability to form short term memory?

Monaco (you may or may not know) has done an awful lot of strengthening this season... So don't accuse me of making up statistics, I'm taking the numbers YOU USE for the seasons YOU PICK. I've also never said Cavani was world class.... :palm: Instead of learning to read my posts, why don't you learn to read your own posts first?



And for the record the idea is for ibra to drop deep even more this season as they now also got Cavani to score.

The more you talk the more you paint yourself in the "i just want to make ibra look bad no matter what he does camp". Atleast thats what it look like to me.

I've said REPEATEDLY what I would want to see Zlatan do for me to consider him world class, I've said REPEATEDLY why I don't consider him world class, and I've said REPEATEDLY that I consider him an extraordinary player (bla bla) but just that he's not got the consistency.

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 21:25
I dident accuse you of making up statistics i said you handpick what you want to highlight.

You brought up that cavani and other strikers are ahead of ibra this season in ligue1 a statistic i dident provide since i only had last years statistics. Yet you fail to mention that ibra is ahead in CL, which according to you is a more valid and important statistic. Ibra is still ahead of Cavani by 3 (i think) goals even if you combine CL and the leauge. Currently 2nd best goalscorer in CL.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 21:29
I dident accuse you of making up statistics i said you handpick what you want to highlight.

You brought up that cavani and other strikers are ahead of ibra this season in ligue1 a statistic i dident provide since i only had last years statistics. Yet you fail to mention that ibra is ahead in CL, which according to you is a more valid and important statistic. Ibra is still ahead by 3 (i think) goals even if you combine CL and the leauge currently 2nd best goalscorer in CL.

Hey, I didn't know Ibrahimovic was ahead in the CL - fine. But also completely irrelevant. I'm talking about big game performances. They've also only played Olympiacos, Benfica, and Anderlecht in the CL - none of which I consider to be 'particularly' good teams, and of Ibra's 6 CL goals, 4 came against Anderlecht, who are GD -10, 0 goals scored, and bottom of their group... Big whoop, go Zlatan, big game performer!

Like I said, we can talk about this some more at the end of the season, when we can assess him on the full season's performance + CL latter stages (Note: This is what I've said the entire last 500 pages), and see how he does in them.

I personally don't expect him to impress too much.

And just to raise the discussion while we're here, the only other top side I consider him to be facing at the moment - or even close to - is Monaco. I haven't seen Monaco yet this year, but given their team + investments, they should at least be 'pretty' good. That being said, I suspect they are lacking in defense and possibly midfield to be considered 'top competition', a la Real v Barca, Inter v Juve (etc).

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 21:36
Hey, I didn't know Ibrahimovic was ahead in the CL - fine. But also completely irrelevant. I'm talking about big game performances. They've also only played Olympiacos, Benfica, and Anderlecht in the CL - none of which I consider to be 'particularly' good teams, and of Ibra's 6 CL goals, 4 came against Anderlecht, who are GD -10, 0 goals scored, and bottom of their group... Big whoop, go Zlatan, big game performer!


Like I said, we can talk about this some more at the end of the season, when we can assess him on the full season's performance + CL latter stages (Note: This is what I've said the entire last 500 pages), and see how he does in them.

I personally don't expect him to impress too much.

And just to raise the discussion while we're here, the only other top side I consider him to be facing at the moment - or even close to - is Monaco. I haven't seen Monaco yet this year, but given their team + investments, they should at least be 'pretty' good. That being said, I suspect they are lacking in defense and possibly midfield to be considered 'top competition', a la Real v Barca, Inter v Juve (etc).


But if its irrelevant that he is ahead in CL how is it relevant enough for you to bring up that he is behind in the league? Its not logical, surely you understand that this just look like you want him to look bad?

Well the fact that you dont know enough about the current ibra or the french league makes it hard to discuss imo.

Lets just agree to disagree regarding ibra. Since we both want good things for him lets hope we can watch him go far in all competitions this year.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 21:39
But if its irrelevant that he is ahead in CL how is it relevant enough for you to bring up that he is behind in the league? Its not logical, surely you understand that this just look like you want him to look bad?

Well the fact that you dont know enough about the current ibra or the french league makes it hard to discuss imo.

Lets just agree to disagree regarding ibra. Since we both want good things for him lets hope we can watch him go far in all competitions this year.

I was using that as an example. I dont think Cavani is world class, so I'm not using that as some sort of metric.

And no, I'm prepared to admit my ignorance of the quality of the French League, however, I also know that they don't have many world class players, and that there are some VERY cheap teams assembled there which are actually quite competitive.

- - - Updated - - -

I also have no problem agreeing to disagree - it's the people who are telling me I'm wrong and then try to ram it down my throat that I take issue with, or people who make an account just for this forum to have a go at me

;)

Agree to disagree is fine. I have a very harsh definition of world class - this is true - and people are perfectly entitled to disagree iwth that.

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 21:49
Fair enough. Its not like i think the french league is a that great either just one have to watch it to know it.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 21:53
All I'm saying is that I would be *quite* surprised if there was 'that' much competition in it. Monaco have started their upwards climb but I don't think they're that good a side yet ? And no one else really stands out to me... I mean there are alot of 'reasonable' teams with some decent names, like Kjaer, Kalou at Lille, but looking through the teams I see a lot of not well known players.

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 22:04
Monaco is looking better in the league table than they do on the field imo. They are not (yet?) a really high quality side (imo). They have an excellent will to win much like like juve has had in recent seasons. A Willpower to grind out a win more often than not. They are missing the superiority to dominate and the experience and tactics to control games (atleast the ones ive seen). Feel they have been a bit lucky to get away with 3 pts as often as they have so far. Perhaps that last sentence could be true about psg as well.

No there are not many names in France that were known to me either. Perhaps that says more about media coverage than anything else though.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 22:12
So you agree with me that even now, after Monaco's strengthening, Zlatan is a big fish in a small pond? :)

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 22:16
Yes

.h.
28 Oct 13, 22:17
So you can see why I didn't compare Zlatan to his performance against the 'top 4' league clubs in France, especially last season :P

Ru4real
28 Oct 13, 22:22
Yes and no. It all comes down to the same thing for me. Statistics will always be skewed.

Just look how different the stats are for ronaldo in your and my example. Yours look like he is the man. Mine look like he is Robinho only with fewer assists .) Yet they cover the same player for the same team and the same seasons (more or less).

.h.
28 Oct 13, 22:23
Well, that is true, which is why I tried to be pretty vague about the statistics. I just looked at 'big games' vs 'small games' - with what I believe is a reasonable definition for both big and small games, and no hair splitting from there - e.g. "Barca v Arsenal isn't a big game because bla bla bla" etc etc

Pimpin
28 Oct 13, 22:38
stats can be deceiving tbh..

you can twist them for your argument, that's why i hate them.

.h.
28 Oct 13, 22:40
stats can be deceiving tbh..

you can twist them for your argument, that's why i hate them.

Sure, but my argument is he's a big game flop. I've backed this up with my own anecdotal evidence of him at Inter - I don't remember a single latter stage CL game where he did well - his time at Barca where he was dropped for the crucial games against us - his time at Milan where he did poorly against Tottenham... and he was poor for Milan v Barca.


The stats are just there to evidence my opinion.

Ronaldo
28 Oct 13, 22:40
Whoever doesn't believe Ibra is worldclass seriously needs to get his brain checked out..

.h.
28 Oct 13, 22:41
Whoever doesn't believe Ibra is worldclass seriously needs to get his brain checked out..

:palm:

and here we go again

Alan
29 Oct 13, 00:45
:palm:

and here we go again

:palm:

and here we go again

.h.
29 Oct 13, 00:57
:palm:

and here we go again

If people weren't arseholes who are disrespectful of other people's opinions, then we wouldn't have a problem.

I have no problem to agreeing to disagree. It's the self-centred egotistical arseholes who can't appreciate the possibility that they might be wrong, or that something might be subjective, that I take offense to.

Ffi201zi002tlis
29 Oct 13, 03:09
I'm not sure how he's doing now but I think this guy had some problems when he played against top defenders (Samuel, Chiellini, Vidic,...) in the past. It's hard to compete against those guys so you'll need great movement to score against their teams. Ibra's movement wasn't good enough, that's why he couldn't contribute in big games like Milito/Inzaghi did.

:yuno: turn it to thank thread.

wambam
29 Oct 13, 03:38
Ima do my absolute best to avoid any further mention of "quality", but I think it's a shame that Ibra has spent so little of his career playing along a true goalscorer. It's easy to build a team that he can carry, but apparently it's tough to optimize an Ibra team. I never really thought of him as a goalscorer, his last season with us he was the top scorer but I got the sense that he'd much rather have a goalscoring strike partner, and I still get that same feeling every time I watch him.

His first season with us, we had Crespo and that felt right. In fact, if I remember correctly we signed Milito to give him that strike partner. At Milan, he publicly talked about how he preferred playing with Pippo than anyone else in the team. So now, do PSG finally have the right idea with Cavani (or has he been playing a less goal-intensive role, I haven't kept up with them this season)?

Adriano
29 Oct 13, 04:11
the fact that either ibra or cristiano might miss the world cup is a great tragedy for the world of football, especially ibra with his current form

i wanna see ibracadabra moments at the world cup

victor_inter
29 Oct 13, 05:34
still here and i still stand by it. A scorer of great goals does not make someone a great goal scorer. Ibrahimovic is a cut above 'a very good player' but he isn't world class. World class is the guy everyone in the team looks to, to carry - and deliver - the team through competitive times. The guy who will put in a sublime game in a final, rather than disappear in the final. A guy who will play better than everyone else in the CL semis, rather than worse.

Waiting to see him do even 1% of this shit in an important match... He's stepped it up since he was at inter - at least now he's scoring in european games - but he wont carry PSG through the CL, now or ever.

Big game bottler, always has been, always will be.

i agree with browha here but u r a bit harsh mate. He is a world class player imo based on his skillset and talent but yes he is a big game bottler. However, he is a beast in season long league competitions which he has won a record 11 times in his career, that's a phenomenal achievement and he really deserves credit for such a feat. So he is a world class player in my book but he is a notch or two below messi and ronnie which is nothing to be ashamed of. btw he scored 4 goals against a crap team, we are yet to witness such a a performance against an elite team like bayern etc.

.h.
29 Oct 13, 09:13
i agree with browha here but u r a bit harsh mate. He is a world class player imo based on his skillset and talent but yes he is a big game bottler. However, he is a beast in season long league competitions which he has won a record 11 times in his career, that's a phenomenal achievement and he really deserves credit for such a feat. So he is a world class player in my book but he is a notch or two below messi and ronnie which is nothing to be ashamed of. btw he scored 4 goals against a crap team, we are yet to witness such a a performance against an elite team like bayern etc.

the reason I'm being 'harsh' about it is because I've spent the last week defending my opinion to dozens of people who, typically, don't bother reading what I've written previously so I end up having to re-iterate it all the time.


Anyway.

The whole point, for me, is that you can *not* be world class if there is someone who is a notch or two better than you. World class means best in the world, or at the same level as the best.

Toninu
29 Oct 13, 09:19
Meh world class is subjective, I personally think he is, he's the kind of person who wins league titles on his own so meh of course he is. It's not just spectacular goals he's a complete player who could be put in any team until Messi asks to take his position in the centre of attack because in the first half of that season with Barca he was a beast and plus he scored in an important goal against Real and helped Barca win the league, not to mention what he did with us.

Devious
29 Oct 13, 09:37
And you maniacs call me troll?

You're a bunch of sick bastards this thread is a fucken joke, fuck y'all and fuck Ibra who isn't a world class.

Wallace
29 Oct 13, 09:46
If Ibrahimovic isn't world class, then he'd be the closest to what's defined as world class, if C.Ronaldo and Messi are the only ones who are world class.

If C.Ronaldo and Messi aren't the only ones belonging to the category of world class in this scenario, then I'd have to say I don't agree with browha here.

In other words, he's gotta be the third best in the world.

But if that's not world class, practically no one else is world class, Aguero, Falcao, Cavani, etc...If they are amongst the same category as Ibrahimovic, then ok, I can accept this argument.

.h.
29 Oct 13, 10:16
If Ibrahimovic isn't world class, then he'd be the closest to what's defined as world class, if C.Ronaldo and Messi are the only ones who are world class.

If C.Ronaldo and Messi aren't the only ones belonging to the category of world class in this scenario, then I'd have to say I don't agree with browha here.

In other words, he's gotta be the third best in the world.

But if that's not world class, practically no one else is world class, Aguero, Falcao, Cavani, etc...If they are amongst the same category as Ibrahimovic, then ok, I can accept this argument.

Loosely, correct. World class is also defined, as I've stated before, vaguely by position - i.e. It's the players who are the best in each position. So for example, whilst I don't consider Ibrahimovic world class, he might be better than someone I put as a world class right back (though how you compare them is beyond me) - simply because there is a derth of talent at right back.

I4E
29 Oct 13, 10:29
But you can have multiple world class players. If Ronaldo and Messi both played as strikers (and only as strikers), does that mean one would be World Class and the other not ?

Just because there is a multitude of 'world class' right backs, doesn't mean they all can't be. There is no world 11 team in a competitive sense but just as a token idea for the sake of awards and pub talk.

.h.
29 Oct 13, 10:43
But you can have multiple world class players. If Ronaldo and Messi both played as strikers (and only as strikers), does that mean one would be World Class and the other not ?

Just because there is a multitude of 'world class' right backs, doesn't mean they all can't be. There is no world 11 team in a competitive sense but just as a token idea for the sake of awards and pub talk.


As I've stated previously, though, it's not just about the XI - so I don't define world class players to be the eleven who get picked for that. But rather, it's the XI and players who are 'on the same level'. So perhaps (in some ridiculous parallel universe) we have 10 right backs who all play at the exact same top level, then yes, I'd have to consider all 10 to be world class.

I mean for example I would have, a few years ago, considered Maicon, Lahm, and Alves probably all to be world class RBs. If we had 30 strikers all playing on the exact same level, then I would have to say all 30 were world class.

But as I've argued in the case of Ibrahimovic, he's not *quite* on the same level as Messi and Ronaldo. He might technically, aesthetically, and in an overview way look like it, but when you get into the nitty gritty, I would argue that he drops off from his competition.

I4E
29 Oct 13, 10:48
So who are currently the 'world class' strikers that Ibra isn't on the same level as ?

.h.
29 Oct 13, 10:55
So who are currently the 'world class' strikers that Ibra isn't on the same level as ?
I would say it is simply kjust Messi and Ronaldo. Fine, one might be inclined to argue they aren't strikers as such, but they are the goalscorers for their team - however you interpret their role.

I would say players who are getting closer to it, but are categorically not world class are people like Falcao (quite close, but needs to prove himself in harder matches, though whenever he's played one he's looked quite good, i.e. the goals against Chelsea last year), Cavani (quite a long way but I think he has the raw potential to make it, if everything goes well), Aguero (really needs to start proving it on the bigger level, he's had some class moments for City, but I suspect a move to Madrid might be on the cards soon)

wicked wizard
29 Oct 13, 11:01
dont know why ronaldos on a different level to zlatan when he goes missing just as much as zlatan against the very elite

- - - Updated - - -

dont know why ronaldos on a different level to zlatan when he goes missing just as much as zlatan against the very elite

victor_inter
29 Oct 13, 11:19
thanks for the clarification browha, judging by the standards you have set for a world class player, i agree ibra is not there yet. Would you rate ibra higher than aguero, tevez (has proven himself on the big stages with united and city), falcao and cavani?

for me a prime drogba is a world class player, better than ibra.

I4E
29 Oct 13, 11:19
I would say it is simply kjust Messi and Ronaldo. Fine, one might be inclined to argue they aren't strikers as such, but they are the goalscorers for their team - however you interpret their role.

I would say players who are getting closer to it, but are categorically not world class are people like Falcao (quite close, but needs to prove himself in harder matches, though whenever he's played one he's looked quite good, i.e. the goals against Chelsea last year), Cavani (quite a long way but I think he has the raw potential to make it, if everything goes well), Aguero (really needs to start proving it on the bigger level, he's had some class moments for City, but I suspect a move to Madrid might be on the cards soon)

Your interpretation of world class is bordering on unrealistic. So Cavani, Falcao and Aguero aren't world class either ? You've basically just sifted out the best strikers in the world (including Ibrahimovic) and none of them are world class ? C'mon Browha, there's are damn good reason they're at big clubs, playing at elite level leagues and scoring goals for fun.

b4h4mooth
29 Oct 13, 11:50
Zlatan is a world class but not in a big game, thats why he never won The Big Ear trophy.

Kenny
29 Oct 13, 11:50
Don't write "WC" , i always think of a toilette.
Now carry on.

.h.
29 Oct 13, 11:55
Your interpretation of world class is bordering on unrealistic. So Cavani, Falcao and Aguero aren't world class either ? You've basically just sifted out the best strikers in the world (including Ibrahimovic) and none of them are world class ? C'mon Browha, there's are damn good reason they're at big clubs, playing at elite level leagues and scoring goals for fun.

No, I dont think they are. I think they COULD BE very soon, but I dont think they are quite in the same league as Messi or Ronaldo yet. Falcao hasn't competed in the Champions League - though his Europa League record is extremely impressive. Cavani is someone who is firmly 'on the way up' - but I'd like to see him do it in the harder levels before I call him world class, and Aguero is extremely good, but he's not in the same league yet as Ronaldo or Messi.



thanks for the clarification browha, judging by the standards you have set for a world class player, i agree ibra is not there yet. Would you rate ibra higher than aguero, tevez (has proven himself on the big stages with united and city), falcao and cavani?

for me a prime drogba is a world class player, better than ibra.

I think Drogba in his prime - culminating in his CL victory with chelsea - truly was a world class player. He might not have still been the same player on the regular matches, but boy he knew how to do it in the big games.

I would say Ibrahimovic is the 'best of the rest'.


dont know why ronaldos on a different level to zlatan when he goes missing just as much as zlatan against the very elite

- - - Updated - - -

dont know why ronaldos on a different level to zlatan when he goes missing just as much as zlatan against the very elite

I think the stats I've posted in the previous posts address that concern.

The Wall
29 Oct 13, 12:04
Your interpretation of world class is bordering on unrealistic. So Cavani, Falcao and Aguero aren't world class either ? You've basically just sifted out the best strikers in the world (including Ibrahimovic) and none of them are world class ? C'mon Browha, there's are damn good reason they're at big clubs, playing at elite level leagues and scoring goals for fun.

Not to mention that he once said Torres was a world class player because of that ONE elite season he had.

Who gives a fuck that it was his only elite season in the entire career? Who gives a fuck that those players which you named have had multiple elite seasons in their careers that matched the Torres season?

And now Kun and Falcao are not world class because they are not Ronaldo and Messi, this keeps getting better. :lol:

.h.
29 Oct 13, 12:08
Not to mention that he once said Torres was a world class player because of that ONE elite season he had.

Who gives a fuck that it was his only elite season in the entire career? Who gives a fuck that those players which you named have had multiple elite seasons in their careers that matched the Torres season?

And now Kun and Falcao are not world class because they are not Ronaldo and Messi, this keeps getting better. :lol:

Sorry, but Falcao is extremely impressive but he's only ever played 8 games in the CL back in 2009-2010...

IRR26
29 Oct 13, 12:13
I would say it is simply kjust Messi and Ronaldo. Fine, one might be inclined to argue they aren't strikers as such, but they are the goalscorers for their team - however you interpret their role.

I would say players who are getting closer to it, but are categorically not world class are people like Falcao (quite close, but needs to prove himself in harder matches, though whenever he's played one he's looked quite good, i.e. the goals against Chelsea last year), Cavani (quite a long way but I think he has the raw potential to make it, if everything goes well), Aguero (really needs to start proving it on the bigger level, he's had some class moments for City, but I suspect a move to Madrid might be on the cards soon)

Okey I need to give my two cents into this.

I think you have categorize the world class so strictly that there is a certain uncertainty that even Ronaldo and Messi can be included.

At least Ronaldo has flopped many times in big matches when all eyes have been on him(with Real in CL just like Ibra and in Portugal national team). With Portugal he has been almost everytime dissapointment or the expectations put him by the media are too high. Also what Ronaldo has won in Real in biggest and riches club in the world? Almost nothing, one La Liga tittle in a league where there are two big teams and he is playing in one of them.

Messi plays in the dream team which has been dominated europe for many years in a row. Is it because of him? In Argentina national team Messi has been like Ronaldo he haven't been able to do like Maradona did and lift the whole team to the next level and to fight for the world cup.

And Falcao then. I think you can find one Columbian guy who agrees with you but how Falcao is closer to the world class category than Ibra? Ibra have flopped in CL but in the league he has always been the difference maker. Falcao is pretty much like nobody compared to Ibra.

The Wall
29 Oct 13, 12:13
Sorry, but Falcao is extremely impressive but he's only ever played 8 games in the CL back in 2009-2010...

And Brazilian Ronaldo has only scored 14 goals in his entire CL career in 40 games. And there is no person on this planet that would say he was not a world class player.

Judging players on something that is completely a team accomplishment is extremely flawed. Getting in the CL and getting far is almost entirely exactly that.

You know which player fits your criteria perfectly and just showes how ridiculous it really is? Pedro Rodriguez. This guyhas scored so many big game goals that you can hardly list them all. Finals, clasicos, you name it, he did it all and did it many times.

achilles
29 Oct 13, 12:27
Zlatan is a great. I don't even know why we are criticizing his big game performance. He is one player. In games like that, sometimes your job is just to make space for your team mates, and occupy the oppositions best defender.

It makes Zlatan look bad, because he is usually so involved with the build up, and getting on the end of the ball, that in a game where he tries to create space for his teammates, we end up criticizing him for his 'performance'. Thats my take.

victor_inter
29 Oct 13, 13:07
and i forgot to add, a prime david villa, yes check his goal scoring record is better than ibra. in his prime, he is a world class player and i boy our very own etoo who is a legend, was better than ibra in his prime. messi and ronaldo and then followed by etoo, david villa, drogba (all in their prime) are ahead of ibra over the last 5 years. those aforementioned five players are world class imo and i believe browha would concur with that list. iBRA is the leader of the second tier of world class players followed by your cavani's, falcaos, tevez, aguero etc.

monster09
29 Oct 13, 13:20
But you can have multiple world class players. .

Exactly. Not sure which retard came up with "if earth played Mars, would this player make the starting 11?" thing.

There isn't a talented LB in the world now but still someone has to be world class and on the other hand many great CMs and strikers won't be because of Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta, Biscuits. The whole logic is fucking retarded (not aimed at anyone).

Bergpavian
29 Oct 13, 13:49
and i forgot to add, a prime david villa, yes check his goal scoring record is better than ibra. in his prime, he is a world class player and i boy our very own etoo who is a legend in his prime was better than ibra. messi and ronaldo and then followed by etoo, david villa, drogba (all in their prime) are ahead of ibra over the last 5 years. those aforementioned five players are world class imo and i believe browha would concur with that list. iBRA is the leader of the second tier of world class players followed by your cavani's, falcaos, tevez, aguero etc.

David who? How can this guy has been world class? Okay, he won the CL, EURO and World Cup. But come on! In EURO 2008 he was hurt. In the World Cup he only managed to score goals against teams like Honduras or Paraguay. Yes, he scored in a CL final against United. But when you take a look at this final: United wasn't competitive and Villa only managed to score the not crucial 3:1. No, no. There is no way that he has ever been world class! Scoring some goals in UEFA Cup and a not competitive league ... pfff.

And Eto? Eto world class? Eto who scored a lot less goals in Europe than Ibra? Eto who was just lucky playing in the best team of the world when he was in his prime? Eto who was just lucky to play with guys like Ronaldinho and Messi? How many goals did he score in CL knockout stage when he won the CL with us? One. Eto ... In two Champions league season with Inter he only managed to score two goals in CL knockout stage!

I think there is only one player more overrated than them: Ruud van Nistelrooy. Being one of the greatest strikers in the world in his prime? What? He played for United five seasons and only won one league title. Being one of the most successful goal scorers in European football? Third most successful Goal scorer in CL history? Three times CL top scorer? Who cares because I bet he hasn't scored more than six or seven goals in the CL knockout stage and hasn't won the title although playing for United and Real.

That are facts!

.h.
29 Oct 13, 14:02
and i forgot to add, a prime david villa, yes check his goal scoring record is better than ibra. in his prime, he is a world class player and i boy our very own etoo who is a legend in his prime was better than ibra. messi and ronaldo and then followed by etoo, david villa, drogba (all in their prime) are ahead of ibra over the last 5 years. those aforementioned five players are world class imo and i believe browha would concur with that list. iBRA is the leader of the second tier of world class players followed by your cavani's, falcaos, tevez, aguero etc.

Indeed. Maybe not Villa - I thought he should have been, really, but he didn't quite do it at Barca, but I would certainly say Eto'o was, at his absolute peak for example.


Okey I need to give my two cents into this.

I think you have categorize the world class so strictly that there is a certain uncertainty that even Ronaldo and Messi can be included.

At least Ronaldo has flopped many times in big matches when all eyes have been on him(with Real in CL just like Ibra and in Portugal national team). With Portugal he has been almost everytime dissapointment or the expectations put him by the media are too high. Also what Ronaldo has won in Real in biggest and riches club in the world? Almost nothing, one La Liga tittle in a league where there are two big teams and he is playing in one of them.

Messi plays in the dream team which has been dominated europe for many years in a row. Is it because of him? In Argentina national team Messi has been like Ronaldo he haven't been able to do like Maradona did and lift the whole team to the next level and to fight for the world cup.

And Falcao then. I think you can find one Columbian guy who agrees with you but how Falcao is closer to the world class category than Ibra? Ibra have flopped in CL but in the league he has always been the difference maker. Falcao is pretty much like nobody compared to Ibra.

I never said that I thought Falcao was better thna Ibrahimovic. Au contrarie I've consistently said that Ibrahimovic was the best of the rest....

victor_inter
29 Oct 13, 14:02
David who? How can this guy has been world class? Okay, he won the CL, EURO and World Cup. But come on! In EURO 2008 he was hurt. In the World Cup he only managed to score goals against teams like Honduras or Paraguay. Yes, he scored in a CL final against United. But when you take a look at this final: United wasn't competitive and Villa only managed to score the not crucial 3:1. No, no. There is no way that he has ever been world class! Scoring some goals in UEFA Cup and a not competitive league ... pfff.

And Eto? Eto world class? Eto who scored a lot less goals in Europe than Ibra? Eto who was just lucky playing in the best team of the world when he was in his prime? Eto who was just lucky to play with guys like Ronaldinho and Messi? How many goals did he score in CL knockout stage when he won the CL with us? One. Eto ... In two Champions league season with Inter he only managed to score two goals in CL knockout stage!

I think there is only one player more overrated than them: Ruud van Nistelrooy. Being one of the greatest strikers in the world in his prime? What? He played for United five seasons and only won one league title. Being one of the most successful goal scorers in European football? Third most successful Goal scorer in CL history? Three times CL top scorer? Who cares because I bet he hasn't scored more than six or seven goals in the CL knockout stage and hasn't won the title although playing for United and Real.

That are facts!

i actually like ibra but i just feel david villa and etoo in their prime were superior in big games and delivered when it mattered most in tougher competitions like the champions league, where only elite teams go through apart from a few exceptions as witnessed in the case of fc porto a while back and the chelsea team under di matteo. Ibra has always had a good team to play with, so that comparison between etoo and ibra is futile. Ibra has played for literally every big club in most countries and has failed to deliver in the ucl for the past 9 years and thats a fact. Ruud van nistelrooy is overrated i agree, dude is a big game bottler as well. have u seen david villa play for valencia, his goal scoring record is even more impressive than ibra and yes he has scored in big games where his goals/game ratio is significantly higher against top opposition compared to ibra. David villa won the UCL with barca and he was a key component of pep's setup. villa messi and pedro were the key, without him, they would never have made it that far.

.h.
29 Oct 13, 14:09
i actually like ibra but i just feel david villa and etoo in their prime were superior in big games and delivered when it mattered most in tougher competitions like the champions league, where only elite teams go through apart from a few exceptions as witnessed in the case of fc porto a while back and the chelsea team under di matteo. Ibra has always had a good team to play with, so that comparison between etoo and ibra is futile. Ibra has played for literally every big club in most countries and has failed to deliver in the ucl for the past 9 years and thats a fact. Ruud van nistelrooy is overrated i agree, dude is a big game bottler as well. have u seen david villa play for valencia, his goal scoring record is even more impressive than ibra and yes he has scored in big games where his goals/game ratio is significantly higher against top opposition compared to ibra. David villa won the UCL with barca and he was a key component of pep's setup. villa messi and pedro were the key, without him, they would never have made it that far.

Indeed. I'm glad someone else understands where I'm coming from... I think Ibrahimovic is a very VERY good player - as stated repeatedly, 'the best of the rest', but he's just SLIGHTLY below Messi and Ronaldo because of his repeated big game failures.

- - - Updated - - -


Exactly. Not sure which retard came up with "if earth played Mars, would this player make the starting 11?" thing.

There isn't a talented LB in the world now but still someone has to be world class and on the other hand many great CMs and strikers won't be because of Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta, Biscuits. The whole logic is fucking retarded (not aimed at anyone).

I never said otherwise, though. I DO NOT define world class as the 'world XI', but rather, the people who would play in the world XI + the people who are on the same level as them. Yeah, I agree, there are some not world class CMs who are better than the best LB/RB in the game right now. That's true under my definition and I don't deny it. Ibrahimovic would probably have been world class at any other time in history - just like Ronaldo would have been the greatest player in any other time in history - but unfortunately in the era he is competing in now, there's a lot of competition.

Hasan
29 Oct 13, 14:11
In last 2-3 seasons it's:

1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Ribery
4. Ibrahimović
5. Iniesta
6. Pirlo
7. Van Persie
8. Falcao
9. Robben
10. Bale

Probably missed someone but all of them are world class players capable to win golden ball, balon d'or etc. Messi and Ronaldo are the best, they have best teams but others aren't too far.

And to say that Ibrahimović isn't world class player is just ... stupid.

.h.
29 Oct 13, 14:14
In last 2-3 seasons it's:

1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Ribery
4. Ibrahimović
5. Iniesta
6. Pirlo
7. Van Persie
8. Falcao
9. Robben
10. Bale

Probably missed someone but all of them are world class players capable to win golden ball, balon d'or etc. Messi and Ronaldo are the best, they have best teams but others aren't too far.

And to say that Ibrahimović isn't world class player is just ... stupid.

And even in your own words, you state Messi and Ronaldo are simply a bit better than Ibrahimovic etc...

Whihc is EXACTLY my point. World class player, for me, is those at the absolute top of the game in their position. Ibrahimovic is slightly behind the best in his position, ergo, he is not world class. (That, and the big game flopping)

rockball
29 Oct 13, 14:17
In last 2-3 seasons it's:

1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Ribery
4. Ibrahimović
5. Iniesta
6. Pirlo
7. Van Persie
8. Falcao
9. Robben
10. Bale

Probably missed someone but all of them are world class players capable to win golden ball, balon d'or etc. Messi and Ronaldo are the best, they have best teams but others aren't too far.

And to say that Ibrahimović isn't world class player is just ... stupid.

If you make a list for last 4-5 years instead of 2-3, some of these players like Bale, Van Persie, Falcao will drop out and some like Xavi, Eto'o will be present.

If you make one for last 5-7 years, a lot of them will drop out, but some like Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic will be present.

If you make one for 8-10 years, Ibra will still be present in it.

.h.
29 Oct 13, 14:18
If you make a list for last 4-5 years instead of 2-3, some of these players like Bale, Van Persie, Falcao will drop out and some like Xavi, Eto'o will be present.

If you make one for last 5-7 years, a lot of them will drop out, but some like Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic will be present.

If you make one for 8-10 years, Ibra will still be present in it.


Oh bull fucking shit.

Ibrahimovic wasnt even really impressive until his last season at Inter. He wasn't even IMPORTANT at Juve, and he wasnt that impressive for his first two years at Inter.

Over 8-10 years, the only people on that list who make it are probably Ronaldo, Pirlo, Robben, perhaps Ribery.

Hasan
29 Oct 13, 14:24
And even in your own words, you state Messi and Ronaldo are simply a bit better than Ibrahimovic etc...

Whihc is EXACTLY my point. World class player, for me, is those at the absolute top of the game in their position. Ibrahimovic is slightly behind the best in his position, ergo, he is not world class. (That, and the big game flopping)

That's not a point at all and you know it. His character and personality aren't fiting in shablons of modern footbal and that's it. That he wanted to be Pep't pet now we would talk about super player who won CL and all that shit with Barca.

But ...

He decided to listen his heart, temperament because he's world class beast, footbaler, artist, entartainer and he can't be under. That's just mentality and brain from Balkan, you need to have that inside yourself to know what I am talking about.

I am not saying that is smart but it's a way it is.

monster09
29 Oct 13, 14:29
And even in your own words, you state Messi and Ronaldo are simply a bit better than Ibrahimovic etc...

Whihc is EXACTLY my point. World class player, for me, is those at the absolute top of the game in their position. Ibrahimovic is slightly behind the best in his position, ergo, he is not world class. (That, and the big game flopping)

And you said Rooney and RVP are world class when they are clearly inferior to Messi and Ronaldo.

The Wall
29 Oct 13, 15:59
How can Van Persie be world class?

5 goals in the CL knockout stages, 22 total in 55 games? Choking against Madrid last season the way he did? That's not consistently bringing your A game to the biggest moments.

Ru4real
29 Oct 13, 16:57
Oh bull fucking shit.

Ibrahimovic wasnt even really impressive until his last season at Inter. He wasn't even IMPORTANT at Juve, and he wasnt that impressive for his first two years at Inter.

Over 8-10 years, the only people on that list who make it are probably Ronaldo, Pirlo, Robben, perhaps Ribery.


The only person with more ballon dor nominations than zlatan is Ronaldo. Ibra makes the cut 7 out of 10 in the last 10 years.. You may not think he was important but lots of others obviously did..

Ibra is perhaps the best striker in the last decade if one look at it over the entire 10 years and not the peak of the players careers.

.h.
29 Oct 13, 17:11
The only person with more ballon dor nominations than zlatan is Ronaldo. Ibra makes the cut 7 out of 10 in the last 10 years.. You may not think he was important but lots of others obviously did..

Ibra is perhaps the best striker in the last decade if one look at it over the entire 10 years and not the peak of the players careers.

and yet not a single victory

:alone:

- - - Updated - - -


How can Van Persie be world class?

5 goals in the CL knockout stages, 22 total in 55 games? Choking against Madrid last season the way he did? That's not consistently bringing your A game to the biggest moments.

I dont know if I ever said RVP was world class. I said that, on moving to united, the way he had integrated into the team was very good and he COULD be world class. If I ever did say he was world class - then I take it back. Under my revised criteria, he is not, and I retract the sstatement.

- - - Updated - - -


And you said Rooney and RVP are world class when they are clearly inferior to Messi and Ronaldo.

Again, not sure if I ever said Rooney was world class. I definitely said he was better than Cassano. As stated in my post for RVP, if I ever did say he was world class, then I retract the statement under my current definitions. Rooney's good, very good at times, but not world class.

victor_inter
29 Oct 13, 17:34
i would put rooney on par with ibra tbh, he has been phenomenal for united, they did win the UCL with him spearheading them along with ronnie and tevez. PLus he has helped them reach 2 finals where they lost to those cheating scums barca (dint cheat against them but before that round)

.h.
29 Oct 13, 17:35
i would put rooney on par with ibra tbh, he has been phenomenal for united, they did win the UCL with him spearheading them along with ronnie and tevez. PLus he has helped them reach 2 finals where they lost to those cheating scums barca (dint cheat against them but before that round)

well, that is true, but his form last season - while 'not bad' - was not stellar, and he's not really been at the full level I believe he's capable of for a while now.

interindo
29 Oct 13, 17:48
Whoever doesn't believe Ibra is worldclass seriously needs to get his brain checked out..

yeah, he's world class alright, PSG have bigger chance winning Champion League if they sell him

.h.
29 Oct 13, 17:49
yeah, he's world class alright, PSG have bigger chance winning Champion League if they sell him

:yao:

victor_inter
29 Oct 13, 17:52
well, that is true, but his form last season - while 'not bad' - was not stellar, and he's not really been at the full level I believe he's capable of for a while now.

yeah dont know what's wrong with wayne, he was a beast back in 08 - 10 period. He has won 5 league titles and a UCL, thats a fantastic achievement and he will certainly be rated as high as any of the other top strikers around at present. a few mates of mine rate rooney higher than drogba which is fair if you judge them solely based on their goal scoring prowess. But the overall influence in a game, the ability to change a game and the potency to do it consistently on a big occasion would have to go to drogba imo, although i guess it depends on the person's preference. They are both equally good its really hard to compare them, but i do think ibra is on par or slightly better than rooney(prime) overall but not drogba. Fear factor rating for drogba is higher and his consistency in big games, i dont even have to explain how good he was on those big occasions, so yes drogba, etoo and villa are ahead of ibra for now. Unless ibra reaches the finals of UCL i will stick to my theory that the aforementioned trio have been better in their respective prime. Etoo and ibra is close but i believe etoo edges it, no player in the world has won back to back fucking trebles lol and he was a key component in both teams. Villa ok perhaps ibra can be considered better than him but david has had a better influence at barca which is why ibra loses out here as well imo. If people think ibra is superior to villa, i would just like to know why is that the case, talent wise i would certainly say yes but not as a big game performer.

.h.
29 Oct 13, 18:03
I think squeezing him in with RVP was an interesting challenge - and he did provide a lot of assists for him... but I still think there's more to get out of him

Ru4real
29 Oct 13, 18:23
and yet not a single victory

Nobody is claiming he has been the best in the world in any of those years. Just he has been amongst the best for a decade.. Thats 10 years and as a striker even.

victor_inter
29 Oct 13, 18:28
ibra though 11 league titles damnn thats insane. so fucking hard to pick but i will stick to my order.

.h.
29 Oct 13, 18:34
ibra though 11 league titles damnn thats insane. so fucking hard to pick but i will stick to my order.

but 2 of them were revoked for cheating, 2 were in a weakened Serie A league, 1 was in the worlds most uncompetitive league (TM) last year...

- - - Updated - - -

I mean what the fuck, are you all juventus fans now?

'oh but he won them on the pitch'? 31 instead of 29? like come on......

Ru4real
29 Oct 13, 18:54
His goals are quite often unbelievable but the man has some awesome assists as well.
_7wRBYFks3s

.h.
29 Oct 13, 19:00
and completely irrelevant to the argument...

no one has ever denied he knows how to score and assist...

Ru4real
29 Oct 13, 19:08
You think everything in this thread is related to you and your post. Im sorry but just because you make ridiculous statement doesn't mean everyone has to respond to that only, does it? It was kind obvious this wasent a response to your reply. I at least thought so.

Can one not share a favorite video of a side that is often forgotten when one speak of ibra in the ibra thread???

Rimpel
29 Oct 13, 20:00
You think everything in this thread is related to you and your post. Im sorry but just because you make ridiculous statement doesn't mean everyone has to respond to that only, does it? It was kind obvious this wasent a response to your reply. I at least thought so.


:lol:

.h.
29 Oct 13, 20:02
You think everything in this thread is related to you and your post. Im sorry but just because you make ridiculous statement doesn't mean everyone has to respond to that only, does it? It was kind obvious this wasent a response to your reply. I at least thought so.

Can one not share a favorite video of a side that is often forgotten when one speak of ibra in the ibra thread???

Sorry for assuming your last post was directed to me, considering you:
a - joined the forum specifically to post at me
b - your username is deliberately targeted at me
c - your previous 21 posts were directed at me


:palm:

Ru4real
29 Oct 13, 20:54
Sorry for assuming your last post was directed to me, considering you:
a - joined the forum specifically to post at me
b - your username is deliberately targeted at me
c - your previous 21 posts were directed at me


:palm:


Thought it was obvious that my post had absolutely nothing to do with your posts and thats was the very point of it. A video of zlatans assist felt like a great way to steer the discussion in any other way than calcipoli and how good seria a was after it. Its booring as hell ands been discussed to death on most forums. Figured a video of a side less seen that i very much appriciate about ibra was a good way to steer the thread to a more positive place.

A- No! I joined cause the discussion were absurd imo. Little did i know you were / are more or less the only one who really thought the way you do.

B- No! My username was aimed at the discussion because it was absurd imo.

C- No! (well maybe) Most were but thats natural since you are / were more or less the only one who keeps writing posts to show ibra really isent all that. Something i dont agree with and the very reason i joined. Nothing personal!

rockball
30 Oct 13, 09:12
:yawn:

Sorry Zlatan. You have the distinction of being the most exciting player on and off the field, and with the most boring thread on FIF.

.h.
30 Oct 13, 11:31
Posted this in the icardi thread, but it made me laugh.


Funnily enough Ibrahimovic has only scored 1 goal against Juve (in 9 matches) in his entire career, according to transfermarkt.

Icardi 4 in 3

Shaun
30 Oct 13, 11:44
Posted this in the icardi thread, but it made me laugh.

Yes, but that really shows how statistics can be really deceiving. Icardi is probably one of the least skillful strikers we've had in the last 10 years and is basically a spectator until he scores a goal, but those stats would suggest that he's a worldclass striker who can score against fantastic defenders

.h.
30 Oct 13, 11:46
Yes, but that really shows how statistics can be really deceiving. Icardi is probably one of the least skillful strikers we've had in the last 10 years and is basically a spectator until he scores a goal, but those stats would suggest that he's a worldclass striker who can score against fantastic defenders

Indeed, which is why I posted it more as a point of amusement than something to take too seriously :)

As I've said elsewhere, though, I don't care how a player makes an impact, but rather, the impact that they make. I'm not really a huge fan of Mario Gomez, but any team in the world would kill to have a player who can score every game, no matter how many chances they miss.

rfU
30 Oct 13, 12:59
I'm not really a huge fan of Mario Gomez, but any team in the world would kill to have a player who can score every game, no matter how many chances they miss.And yet he's at Fiorentina :slick: I know I know, by choice but still shows a lack of ambition on his part. As for Ibra I thought this was settled.... he's brodering world class, the talent is there but mentally he just can't kick it. The games vs Barca in the 09/10 clearly show this. And then the games vs Juventus where Chellini owned him each and every time. I had a mate like that. In training he could dribble the whole field and do a rainbow flick over the keeper. But when it came to the real thing especially the cup games he just disappeared. coach benched him and we ended up winning. go figure.

victor_inter
01 Nov 13, 12:51
icardi is like inzhagi, he just scores but inzhagi had world class movement and poacher instincts

.h.
05 Nov 13, 09:27
Not a fan of goal.com, but I wanted to post this:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/champions-league/2013/11/05/4382342/guardiola-the-only-winner-in-robben-struggle?ICID=HP_BN_8


If you want to see how Pep Guardiola deals with Problem Bears, read Zlatan Ibrahimovic's autobiography. The invective towards Pep spits up off every page he's mentioned. What also hits you is the lack of a Champions League medal. Pep has plenty of those and he didn't win them with players like Zlatan.

This was the swaggering Swede's assessment of the Barcelona dressing room: "Everybody was quiet and polite and a team player, and sometimes I'd think, these guys are superstars. Yet they behave like schoolboys."

They submit to the collective. They win trophies.

I4E
05 Nov 13, 10:28
Have you read his book ?

.h.
05 Nov 13, 10:32
No, but I've heard about some of the allegations he makes in it. Nonetheless it doesn't change the fact that Pep is the one with the CL medals, and Ibrahimovic is not.

I4E
05 Nov 13, 10:37
No, but I've heard about some of the allegations he makes in it. Nonetheless it doesn't change the fact that Pep is the one with the CL medals, and Ibrahimovic is not.

That quote from goal.crap you posted is totally out of context. Ibrahimovic was actually complementing the Barca players. You know, the world class ones like Zlatan.

.h.
05 Nov 13, 10:42
That quote from goal.crap you posted is totally out of context. Ibrahimovic was actually complementing the Barca players. You know, the world class ones like Zlatan.

I didn't take that quote as an insult, in fact. I took it as a sign of a team, and its team players, who know their place.

Dylan
05 Nov 13, 13:53
I've taken to flatly denying all Zlatan quotes from now on. They're usually started by some ''epic meme football'' page and just catch on.

Trublue
11 Nov 13, 15:08
'"El misterio Messi" is a new 320 pages book, written by journalists Sebastián Fest and Alexandre Julliard in French. Some voices are saying that the book will be soon translated in other languages.

The book, as you all noticed, also talks about the controversial episode between Swedish striker Zlatan Ibrahimović and Spanish coach Pep Guardiola. It seems Messi “canceled” Ibra with a text message.

Everything happened when Zlatan started to score more goals than the football star, called “the best player in the world” by so many. The story is about a text message (SMS) that Messi sent to Guardiola while they were in the bus. After Guardiola received the message, he showed it to the person that was staying right next to him, Manel Estiarte one of his close friends. Messi’s words were: “well, it seems I am not important for the team anymore, so……”.

Guardiola was petrified. Was it a complaint or a threat?

In his book, “I am Zlatan”, the Swede talks about this episode with Guardiola, but only his fans believed him. Once again, this incredible talented footballer was blamed and cursed by so many persons. It seems, though, Zlatan was telling the truth.'

.h.
11 Nov 13, 17:03
I love how these text messages from guy 1 to guy 2 which only ever get shown to guy 2's best friend end up everywhere

Journalists are better than NSA - even they only store meta data

:yao:

wera
11 Nov 13, 23:47
so apparently there is a big issue of Zlatan not going to see some ill kid

since when are football players obligated to see every ill kid that wants to see them?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ddJIli6PCs4

and now he had to do this, the little kid is gonna get two shirts, hooray

Alan
12 Nov 13, 19:16
so apparently there is a big issue of Zlatan not going to see some ill kid

since when are football players obligated to see every ill kid that wants to see them?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ddJIli6PCs4

and now he had to do this, the little kid is gonna get two shirts, hooray

But this shit is old?

Rimpel
14 Nov 13, 22:11
'"El misterio Messi" is a new 320 pages book, written by journalists Sebastián Fest and Alexandre Julliard in French. Some voices are saying that the book will be soon translated in other languages.

The book, as you all noticed, also talks about the controversial episode between Swedish striker Zlatan Ibrahimović and Spanish coach Pep Guardiola. It seems Messi “canceled” Ibra with a text message.

Everything happened when Zlatan started to score more goals than the football star, called “the best player in the world” by so many. The story is about a text message (SMS) that Messi sent to Guardiola while they were in the bus. After Guardiola received the message, he showed it to the person that was staying right next to him, Manel Estiarte one of his close friends. Messi’s words were: “well, it seems I am not important for the team anymore, so……”.

Guardiola was petrified. Was it a complaint or a threat?

In his book, “I am Zlatan”, the Swede talks about this episode with Guardiola, but only his fans believed him. Once again, this incredible talented footballer was blamed and cursed by so many persons. It seems, though, Zlatan was telling the truth.'

I've seen this before, can't remember where. But if true it makes Messi look really childish. And after the whole tax fraud scandal I'm not sure Messi's as polite as some people claim.

I4E
14 Nov 13, 22:21
Why would Zlatan lie ? He is one of the most vocal footballers around. Doesn't hold back.

calls-it-as-he-sees-it

thatdude
14 Nov 13, 22:25
I agree. I think Zlatan is actually a pretty honest dude, perhaps even to a fault.

.h.
14 Nov 13, 22:34
Why would Zlatan lie ? He is one of the most vocal footballers around. Doesn't hold back.

calls-it-as-he-sees-it

:yao:

Yeah, why would anyone ever lie?!?

I4E
14 Nov 13, 22:41
:yao:

Yeah, why would anyone ever lie?!?

Good question. SAF lied through his teeth in his recent book

monster09
15 Nov 13, 04:02
Good question. SAF lied through his teeth in his recent book

Like?

Lied or didn't do enough research? Because there are few mistakes in his book that might not be intentional. For example he said ManUtd 2 games against Cluj when we won against Galati.

I4E
15 Nov 13, 04:20
I found it hilarious that he is critical of Benitez' transfers.

He said; Gerard Houllier made great transfers, for example bringing in Luis Garcia :lol:

It was Benitez that brought Luis Garcia :lol:

Fapuccino
15 Nov 13, 04:37
so apparently there is a big issue of Zlatan not going to see some ill kid

since when are football players obligated to see every ill kid that wants to see them?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ddJIli6PCs4

and now he had to do this, the little kid is gonna get two shirts, hooray

It was a terminally ill boy from Sarajevo.

monster09
15 Nov 13, 04:42
I found it hilarious that he is critical of Benitez' transfers.

He said; Gerard Houllier made great transfers, for example bringing in Luis Garcia :lol:

It was Benitez that brought Luis Garcia :lol:

Like I said it was lack of proper research than lieing. He even made mistake about Roy keane's numbers.

rfU
16 Nov 13, 07:07
definitely not a player for big games.

Ronaldo
16 Nov 13, 08:38
I've seen this before, can't remember where. But if true it makes Messi look really childish. And after the whole tax fraud scandal I'm not sure Messi's as polite as some people claim.

Messi was a child. And about tax scandal I don't think that is his fault. He probably doesn't know anything about managing his finances and it is all in other people's hands.

Hasan
16 Nov 13, 12:41
so apparently there is a big issue of Zlatan not going to see some ill kid

since when are football players obligated to see every ill kid that wants to see them?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ddJIli6PCs4

Wera dude don't be so harsh. Litle boy(8 yrs old) have less and less time, bigest wish in his life is to meet Zlatan and parents trying their best to manage that meeting.

One of our NT players (noone knows which one excpt boys parents) aranged and paid everything for boy and his parents to travel in Paris and meet him because he's so busy that don't have time to travel in Sarajevo.

Last week or two doctors finaly aproved but Zlatan was or so buisy (one side of the story) or he wasn't informed (second side of the story) so he didn't meet with them in Paris.

Famous Slovenian radio comentator Denis Avdić decided to call PSG PR service to say that Ibra had won "Asshole of the year award". Very funy video actualy. Šupak means asshole and lady don't have any idea what she will just say to Zlatan. I would love to see his face when he hears that.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwulKEPrglI

wera
16 Nov 13, 12:46
Famous slovenian radio commentator Denis Avdić :yao2: that guy is so annoying, we have almost no good stand up people in Slovenia

Hasan
16 Nov 13, 12:49
wera I don't speak Slovenian langage but what this means:

" Leta 2010, 2011 in 2012 je prejel viktorja za radijsko osebnost leta"

JJM
16 Nov 13, 19:29
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZNoRKeIcAA9w3g.jpg

bwahahaha :trollol:

interista4
16 Nov 13, 19:35
2 early they can easily overcome this result

wera
18 Nov 13, 04:40
wera I don't speak Slovenian langage but what this means:

" Leta 2010, 2011 in 2012 je prejel viktorja za radijsko osebnost leta"

was the three times winner of the best radio host personality

George Carlin is turning in his grave because of Slovenian 'humour'. He can joke all he wants about the Šupak of the year, but he's the kind of fag that don't have the balls to say that on TV or to Ibra in person. I cannot respect that.

I4E
19 Nov 13, 07:23
Zlatan in a recent interview :lol:

TV4 reporter: “Who will win the qualifier?”

Ibrahimovic: “Only God knows.”

TV4 reporter: “It’s kind of hard to ask him.”

Ibrahimovic: “You’re talking to him now!”

World Class arrogance from a World Class player...

monster09
19 Nov 13, 09:08
World Class arrogance from a World Class player...

Very good response from a very good player, who flops when asked big questions

:P

I4E
19 Nov 13, 09:12
:lol:

.h.
19 Nov 13, 09:14
Very good response from a very good player, who flops when asked big questions

:P

Oh no

Ibrahimovic is God

A self made delusion with no real ability. An image people pray to to change things, but ultimately doesn't influence anything. A common misconception held by millions of people.

Some of his most devout followers can be found here
:coffee:

That's my dictionary definition of God. Zlatan is the exact same.

monster09
19 Nov 13, 09:17
But Ibra influences many things. Zlatan >>>>> God.

wera
19 Nov 13, 09:25
God >>>> world class

Rimpel
19 Nov 13, 12:35
Zlatan in a recent interview :lol:

TV4 reporter: “Who will win the qualifier?”

Ibrahimovic: “Only God knows.”

TV4 reporter: “It’s kind of hard to ask him.”

Ibrahimovic: “You’re talking to him now!”

World Class arrogance from a World Class player...
typical ibra :lol:

dynasty27
19 Nov 13, 18:40
No matter the match result, the heat will be on

_OC_
19 Nov 13, 20:17
Okay browha, time to admit it. There's basically no way around it by this point; Zlatan Ibrahimovic IS World Class. If he isn't, then no one is.


Except Ronaldo just shit all over him.

No, he shat all over Sweden. Ronaldo, right now, is just untouchable. Not to dig further into the discussion, but maintaining that Zlatan isn't world class after such a monster-performance in a high-pressure match and situation (please don't give me "not CHL lolz" now), which just so happened to be overshadowed by Ronaldo going psycho-mode, would be both foolish and stubborn to the point of absurdity.

Lionheart
19 Nov 13, 20:29
Okay browha, time to admit it. There's basically no way around it by this point; Zlatan Ibrahimovic IS World Class. If he isn't, then no one is.

Except Ronaldo just shit all over him.

DIN011
19 Nov 13, 20:35
Except Ronaldo just shit all over Sweden.

Fixed tbh

wicked wizard
19 Nov 13, 20:44
Except Ronaldo just shit all over him.
Lool have you seen the difference in teams. Apart from IBRA Sweden are the equal to a team like west ham. I would like to see if the result would be the same if they both switched sides.v

Rimpel
19 Nov 13, 20:51
Outshone by Ronaldo which isn't surprising considering Sweden's shocking lack of quality in both defense and attack.

Bergpavian
19 Nov 13, 21:03
God >>>> world class

He did good with creating boobies and so on but he sucks when it's about big things like hunger in the world or world peace. Not world class.




Lool have you seen the difference in teams. Apart from IBRA Sweden are the equal to a team like west ham. I would like to see if the result would be the same if they both switched sides.v

No. Sweden just sucks because their whole game is built on Ibrahimovic and he failed one more time to take responsibility and bring Sweden to the WC.

Dylan
19 Nov 13, 21:11
Is that quote real? I tend to only believe his quotes if I listen to him say it in a video.

Rimpel
19 Nov 13, 21:11
He did good with creating boobies and so on but he sucks when it's about big things like hunger in the world or world peace.

- - - Updated - - -







No. Sweden just sucks because their whole game is built on Ibrahimovic and he failed one more time to take responsibility and bring Sweden to the WC.

He's scored pretty much all their goals during the qualifiers and scored twice today. He needs at least decent support around him to beat a team like Portugal. Or are we now demanding that he has to knock out teams like Portugal by himself. Get real.

Sweden's shitty defense let them down, not Ibra.

I4E
19 Nov 13, 21:20
Is that quote real? I tend to only believe his quotes if I listen to him say it in a video.

It's real Boyo. There's a clip of it somewhere on the internet

I4E
19 Nov 13, 21:24
http://feedly.com/k/18inXb8

This is the link I received

Fapuccino
19 Nov 13, 21:24
Lmao Ibra is the best #9 in the world today. The other 2 that could challenge him are Cavani and Falcao, and maybe an on form Van Persie, but none of them have his creativity, skill on the ball, hold up ability.

Yes, Ibra does lack big game mentality, but if Ibra had a big game mentality, he would be one of the best in history, not just today. Imagine this guy with a CL trophy, he'd be a perennial legend :P

Dylan
19 Nov 13, 21:34
Thanks. So I guess it's a crime to have a bit of fun in an interview now?

Verathia
19 Nov 13, 21:37
I loved wactching him lose today. Arrogant prick.

Bergpavian
19 Nov 13, 22:19
He's scored pretty much all their goals during the qualifiers and scored twice today. He needs at least decent support around him to beat a team like Portugal. Or are we now demanding that he has to knock out teams like Portugal by himself. Get real.

Sweden's shitty defense let them down, not Ibra.

:trollol:

monster09
20 Nov 13, 04:08
It was so great to see Ibra putting some serious shift. For the first time I saw Ibra chasing the ball and diving to win the ball. It was great performance by 2 great players, shame that we will miss one of them in the World cup. You need players like Ibra playing in the world cup.

rfU
20 Nov 13, 04:30
'World Cup is nothing without me' Ooh the arrogance :slick:

Didnt watch the game but looks like he stepped up to the plate.

rockball
20 Nov 13, 05:10
No point in watching the WC any more. As good as Ronaldo and Messi and some others, none of them give you the pure joy of watching the game that Zlatan does. There are very few players whom I can watch all day irrespective of the match or opposition. Zlatan, Totti, Ronaldinho are some of those. Fuck this shit

Shaun
20 Nov 13, 05:18
Agreed, there is no other player I enjoy watching more than Ibra.

dynasty27
20 Nov 13, 11:03
Thanks. So I guess it's a crime to have a bit of fun in an interview now?
no one had a problem wit it either

jmaster
20 Nov 13, 13:02
Famous slovenian radio commentator Denis Avdić :yao2: that guy is so annoying, we have almost no good stand up people in Slovenia

that name sounds very very familiar... http://i.imgur.com/5BMTV4G.png

Trublue
20 Nov 13, 15:24
Zlatan after the game :

'I wish Ronaldo and Portugal good luck at the World Cup.'

Ronaldo would cry like a little baby if they lost.

wera
20 Nov 13, 16:00
Lmao Ibra is the best #9 in the world today. The other 2 that could challenge him are Cavani and Falcao, and maybe an on form Van Persie, but none of them have his creativity, skill on the ball, hold up ability.

Yes, Ibra does lack big game mentality, but if Ibra had a big game mentality, he would be one of the best in history, not just today. Imagine this guy with a CL trophy, he'd be a perennial legend :P

:serious:

Alan
20 Nov 13, 16:38
No point in watching the WC any more. As good as Ronaldo and Messi and some others, none of them give you the pure joy of watching the game that Zlatan does. There are very few players whom I can watch all day irrespective of the match or opposition. Zlatan, Totti, Ronaldinho are some of those. Fuck this shit

I just want to cry when I see other outside Sweden thinking the same :epicwin:

Instead of lessons today I was talking 24/7 with teachers of what went wrong in the fucking game. Everyone was heartbroken and was woundering what to do summer 2014 lol :yuno:

- - - Updated - - -


Okay browha, time to admit it. There's basically no way around it by this point; Zlatan Ibrahimovic IS World Class. If he isn't, then no one is.



No, he shat all over Sweden. Ronaldo, right now, is just untouchable. Not to dig further into the discussion, but maintaining that Zlatan isn't world class after such a monster-performance in a high-pressure match and situation (please don't give me "not CHL lolz" now), which just so happened to be overshadowed by Ronaldo going psycho-mode, would be both foolish and stubborn to the point of absurdity.

Are you fucking kidding me? Look at the defenders Ibra faced and then compare to the defenders Ronaldo faced. The defenders of Sweden is Allvenskan class. And you probably don't even know what Allsvenskan is and that's how fucking bad the defenders in Sweden are. Just LOL, compare every player in Portugal with Swedens. Lets just name a few from Portugal; Coentrao, Alves, Pepe, Ronaldo, Nani, Moutinho. Now compare them with Swedens player in those position :trollol:

Besnik
20 Nov 13, 20:16
Yea, Ronaldo had a better team behind him that's true but however a better team has managed to qualify so there's nothing to complain.. kinda feel sorry for Zlatan, he's just too good to not be part of WC

Verathia
20 Nov 13, 21:14
I don't like Ibra but I definitely do agree he's too good to not be in the World Cup. Easily the biggest missing talent. Bale at close second.

wicked wizard
20 Nov 13, 22:48
I don't like Ibra but I definitely do agree he's too good to not be in the World Cup. Easily the biggest missing talent. Bale at close second.bale close second haha

Wings
21 Nov 13, 00:49
Are you fucking kidding me? Look at the defenders Ibra faced and then compare to the defenders Ronaldo faced. The defenders of Sweden is Allvenskan class. And you probably don't even know what Allsvenskan is and that's how fucking bad the defenders in Sweden are. Just LOL, compare every player in Portugal with Swedens. Lets just name a few from Portugal; Coentrao, Alves, Pepe, Ronaldo, Nani, Moutinho. Now compare them with Swedens player in those position :trollol:

In Michael Cox's words:


A contest that has widely been billed as Cristiano Ronaldo against Zlatan Ibrahimovic, you could also view it in another, equally reductive way: the side that consistently possesses everything but a striker against a side that currently only possesses a striker.

Sweden’s hopes of progressing start and end with Ibrahimovic.

Dylan
21 Nov 13, 01:00
That;s not relevant. He's talking about the NT's history with players.

Wings
21 Nov 13, 02:22
That;s not relevant. He's talking about the NT's history with players.

???

Who is 'he'? Michael Cox or Alan? They were both writing about the play-off match between Sweden and Portugal.

Verathia
21 Nov 13, 03:12
bale close second haha
Ok, not close second... but second at any rate :lol:

Batman
21 Nov 13, 14:04
Voting for his goal against England to win Puskas award. :thumbsup:

ScottishInter97
21 Nov 13, 14:49
ahhhh Ibra! what a player he was for Inter!

Do people hold it against him (i.e dislike him) because he went on to play for Milan?

jmaster
21 Nov 13, 18:53
ahhhh Ibra! what a player he was for Inter!

Do people hold it against him (i.e dislike him) because he went on to play for Milan?

yes, yes we do. only pussies still respect him

Dylan
21 Nov 13, 19:44
???

Who is 'he'? Michael Cox or Alan? They were both writing about the play-off match between Sweden and Portugal.

Michael Cox, ''a side that ''consistently'' possesses...''
He's referring to more than this tie.

Wings
22 Nov 13, 02:12
Michael Cox, ''a side that ''consistently'' possesses...''
He's referring to more than this tie.

He was writing a preview for the match and was referring to Portugal's mediocre record of producing strikers, something that's still true today. It was a leadup to the main part of the preview.

You can read the article:

"Four potential UEFA playoff difference-makers"
http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/worldcupcentral/id/1147?cc=5901

Dylan
23 Nov 13, 03:29
Exactly...that's what I said.

Wings
23 Nov 13, 03:51
Oh, I was confused when you said it wasn't relevant.

My bad.

Dylan
23 Nov 13, 04:06
I just meant he was talking in a more general sense :D

Devious
23 Nov 13, 12:18
Dylan is such a supak.

wera
23 Nov 13, 13:05
Dylan is such a shupak.

fixed is the right way to say it


ahhhh Ibra! what a player he was for Inter!

Do people hold it against him (i.e dislike him) because he went on to play for Milan?

he gets blamed for Inter not being a force in CL which is too harsh. he scored a lot of goals for Inter and other teams knew he was the player they need to watch for.

Devious
23 Nov 13, 13:38
Supak.

Dylan
23 Nov 13, 17:29
The fuck is a Supak/Shupak?

Don't make me change your name.

Starmo4
23 Nov 13, 19:07
It means asshole / asshooolee :D

Pajo
23 Nov 13, 19:13
:lol: :lol:

wera
23 Nov 13, 19:19
Scored a funny goal today, the keeper fucked up greatly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=O7NSNnvxsYM

Zlatan4life
25 Dec 13, 19:01
In Sweden, where I live, Zlatan has been public degraded in the media today by feminists and political correct people.

Reason?
Zlatan said that women's soccer can not be compared with the men...

Alan
25 Dec 13, 23:47
In Sweden, where I live, Zlatan has been public degraded in the media today by feminists and political correct people.

Reason?
Zlatan said that women's soccer can not be compared with the men...

Ja! HAHA! Fyfan, jag hörde det men Zlatan är Zlatan o säger vad han vill eller hur? + Det var sant.

Fucking women, he said that he have broken many records and now the records shouldn't be compared too women records and WHAT IS WRONG WITH SAYING THAT.

Jane The Virgin
26 Dec 13, 00:17
i dont want to sound racist... but its an english forum people.

wera
26 Dec 13, 00:55
if they can compare, let women teams play in CL.

but they can't

Shaun
26 Dec 13, 08:12
The dude just said what most guys actually think. Is it somewhat sexist? Sure it is, but is he wrong? No, it isn't.

Zlatan4life
26 Dec 13, 11:21
For some time ago, the swedish female national team lost with 3-0 against AIKs U17 (a club in sweden).
And the funny thing is that the boys had to play a man short during major of the match at the request from the female-team coach.

That says a lot how good women's football is...

Bergpavian
26 Dec 13, 11:33
Some years ago the B-Youth of VfB Stuttgart - 14-16 year old boys - beat the female world champs from Germany with 3:0. The same result was when a old men team from a Kreisliga club beat a female Bundesliga team.

Alan
26 Dec 13, 23:42
i dont want to sound racist... but its an english forum people.

OH comeon. Lägg ner din slyna.

Fitzy
27 Dec 13, 05:18
Anyone who has watched 5 minutes of women's football and can't see the difference in quality is blind. It's just a fact.

ScottishInterista
30 Dec 13, 09:10
he said he would be up for going to Celtic before he retires. That would be so fucking amazing to see him play again ala Larson

Cal
30 Dec 13, 10:04
WHATTTTT????????

wera
30 Dec 13, 11:45
haha my friend would go bananas if that is true

JJM
30 Dec 13, 23:17
Ibrahimovic: Santa Claus should win the Ballon d'Or

Speaking to the press in Doha, Ibrahimovic joked: “The Ballon d’Or? For me, the three deserve to win it, but the one who must have it is Santa Claus.”

:trollol:

ScottishInterista
30 Dec 13, 23:29
i miss that crazy sonofabitch

Guney
30 Dec 13, 23:37
he should stop sniffing '' christmas snow''

DARi0
05 Jan 14, 12:09
http://assets.sport.ro/assets/sport/2013/10/04/image_galleries/188542/ibrahimovic-e-din-nou-pe-primele-pagini-in-franta-suedezul-va-fi-audiat-dupa-ce-i-a-pus-pistolul-la-tampla_size1.jpg
[PSG vs Toulouse] Ibra wanting to shoot the side-ref in the head for an offside ruling that he did not agree with :D


http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2014/01/02/Ancelotti.gif

[PSG vs Real Madrid] rich men`s friendly - he stated that he got along the best with Ancelotti, who was a trainer, a father and a friend for him. He also wrote in his book that he would give his life for Mourinho.

I would surely enjoy to see Ibra as a coach :crazy: imagine the FEAR.