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View Full Version : Netherlands - Russia (QF) (21 Jun 08)



Choppin Onions
19 Jun 08, 00:55
About as close as Total Football as you'll find in this day and age. Purely orgasmic watching these two teams play. The Dutch will probably win but I'm still looking forward to it.

mexican_azzurri
19 Jun 08, 02:48
This gonna be a great match, both teams play a nice football but i think that rusia team is too young for this level and netherlands have in all lines a best team vs rusia team.

Netherlands-Russia-> Netherlands

Choppin Onions
21 Jun 08, 01:27
How is there no discussion about this game? Is everyone fucked up on heroin or something? To picture-quote our new coach, this is how this game makes me feel:

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n304/BRizzle84/josewank.gif

Luka
21 Jun 08, 04:37
Hahaha, LOL.

Dude, take this pic off :P

This is not a gay site. Is it ? :>

rockball
21 Jun 08, 13:32
Wtf!

Azzkikr
21 Jun 08, 14:04
Should be a highscoring game.

Both are attacking teams with defensive lacks.

Im guessing 3-1 or even 4-2 to the dutch.

Luka
21 Jun 08, 16:02
My bet goes to Russia.

Portugal, Holland, and Spain out in quarters!

Why not !!!

What a turn of events that would be. All the teams that were on top in the press after the group stages, would get eliminated, while "boring" Germany and Italy faves to go to the final. Haha, what a jinx that would be :>

Adam
21 Jun 08, 19:59
Russia played the better first half, but it's an even open game, and even though it's 0-0 there's lovely play. Both teams are playing fast technical football as expected. Man I wish we could of gotten Hiddink instead of Mourinho. That guy's a true genius. Not only does he get max potential out of his players he makes them play great attacking football.


Haha, Russia score. Pavlyuchenko. Great finish.

I want Holland to win though.

Adam
21 Jun 08, 20:27
Ruuuud is Guuuuuud! 1-1 Yes! Come on Holland!

Azzkikr
21 Jun 08, 20:37
Exciting game, not the highscoring game i predicted, but the chances have certainly been there.

Shame holland equalised, they didnt deserve it, they have been playing like shit like they usualy do when it truely matters. Even Inter a bad day doesnt play this uninspiring football as the dutch have this evening.

Russia have played amazing football, only thing they lack is being more clinical infront of goal.

Arshavin easily MOM, what a great player. There will be a massive clash between european top clubs for his signature after this tournament for sure.

Luka
21 Jun 08, 20:40
Russia looks a lot weaker in the end. It looks it will be very hard for them in the extra time.

But I won't change my bet :D


Man I wish we could of gotten Hiddink instead of Mourinho. That guy's a true genius. Not only does he get max potential out of his players he makes them play great attacking football.

I would never change our pick. Despite him being a great coach, his personality is perfect for environment at Inter. Simply because of the pressure, and because of the press being against us.

No argument Hidding is class, though.

Luka
21 Jun 08, 20:55
What an amazing duo that is. Pavluchenko and Arshavin.

Pavluchenko, incredibly fast and agile, despite him being that tall. Great technique, vision. He only needs to improve finishing.
(LOL at Bologna roumors).

And Arshavin, just incredible player. If Arshavin could provide as much shirt-money as Ronaldo, I would take the latter if I were Real. Ronaldo couldn't do half of this at the big stage.

Adam
21 Jun 08, 20:56
God, Dutch girls are so nice. I don't know what it is but they have that slutty look in their eye.

Anyways, good point Luka, but for me Hiddink's positives outweight Mourinho's.

Luka
21 Jun 08, 21:02
Russia - Stunning.

A-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y stunning.

Azzkikr
21 Jun 08, 21:03
2-1 russia, well deserved, there has only been one team in this extra time.

Azzkikr
21 Jun 08, 21:07
3-1 Arshavin :howler:

Player of the tournament so far.

Adam
21 Jun 08, 21:07
Russia - Stunning.

A-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y stunning.

Agree, they've been playing phenomenal football. Fully deserved the second goal. 3-1 Arshavin goal.

Luka
21 Jun 08, 21:08
Speachless.

Fuck this. Let's just get him and ditch Quaresma :P

ps. Just kidding. Or am I... ;)

Adam
21 Jun 08, 21:10
Speachless.

Fuck this. Let's just get him and ditch Quaresma ;)

ps. Just kidding. Or am I... :P

You mean Arshavin? Good player, he's playing fantastic at the moment but I doubt he would be that good in Inter. I wouldn't mind getting him but I'd rather get Zhirkov.

Luka
21 Jun 08, 21:18
What do you know. I was right again with my bet LOL :P

So it's 2 for 3. Tommorow Spain, and I'll get my 3/3 score LOL :P

Breathtaking performance by Russia in Extra Time.

With this game, I'm more scared for Italy to play against Russia, than Spain. I'm not kidding here.

No slight doubt they deserved this win. Amazing performance, and just thanks to Van Der Saar the score was only 3-1.

Arshavin, Pavluchenko, Zhirkov, Semak. What a game from this quartet.

And this is no doubt the best team performance on the Euro yet. Lets not forget Russia beat the same team, that have beaten France and Italy LOL. Really, I would be shitting my pants right now if I were either spanish/italian.

Arshavin can pack his russian bags after this game. Same with Pavluchenko.


You mean Arshavin? Good player, he's playing fantastic at the moment but I doubt he would be that good in Inter. I wouldn't mind getting him but I'd rather get Zhirkov.
;) I wasn't very serious. I was just trying in other way to show how I was impressed today with his performance ;)

thomas_inter
21 Jun 08, 21:30
FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KANKER KANKER KANKER KANKER KANKER....

Fuck man.... bah...

Russians played a good game, deserved win...

thomas_inter
21 Jun 08, 21:33
God, Dutch girls are so nice. I don't know what it is but they have that slutty look in their eye.

Anyways, good point Luka, but for me Hiddink's positives outweight Mourinho's.

Just imagine how a fucking lucky guy I am ;)...

mexican_azzurri
21 Jun 08, 21:38
Well that was the end for netherlands, russia deserves win and thats all and netherlands keep with the same history: Great teams but no one good results.

Luka
21 Jun 08, 21:39
FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KANKER KANKER KANKER KANKER KANKER....

Fuck man.... bah...

Russians played a good game, deserved win...
I really symphatise with you thomas, as I know you wanted your NT to progress.

But Croatia played a good game, when they won with us, Turkey played a good game when they won with Croatia, Sweeden played a good game when they won with Greece.

Russia? Russia played a stunning, STUNNING game today. The best performance up to this day on this tournament.

They weren't great in 90 minutes, but what they did in 30 of extra time was breathtaking. They ran, they were determined, they looked like it was the beggining of second half, not extra time. Holland didn't exist in Extra time. Literaly. And that was the team who was suppose to be one of the three main contenders for winning the whole thing, and the one that swept Italy and France away.

A stunning, stunning performance by underdogs today.

NimAraya
21 Jun 08, 21:51
Russia didn't play just a GOOD match. They Dominated Holland! What a performance!! How can you attack the best team in the tornoument so far for almost entire 120 minute?!!!

Hammoudi
21 Jun 08, 23:24
Not taking anything from Russia, but Holland's defence wasn't good. I don't know how teams still fail to recognize the importance of defence!

I am not saying defend with 8 men like Greece, but FFS make your team balanced.

To win a championship you either have a balanced team or fill your team with attacking players (Brazil-style) and scare your opponents from attacking.

Arashvkin is one hell of a player, and for that matter the entire Russian forwards were, they never gave up.

ataturk5
21 Jun 08, 23:48
How is there no discussion about this game? Is everyone fucked up on heroin or something? To picture-quote our new coach, this is how this game makes me feel:

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n304/BRizzle84/josewank.gif

exactly! hes a top drawer wanker, mark my words, you will see

ataturk5
21 Jun 08, 23:53
3-1 Arshavin :howler:

Player of the tournament so far.

yer avin a fukcing laff arent yer?hes good yes, but hes only played two games. what about modric, villa, silva?

Fabio
22 Jun 08, 01:02
Wow, just wow.

lonewolf19
22 Jun 08, 01:15
too stunned to talk

shahz_nerazzurri
22 Jun 08, 07:19
Oh man, how I wish we could have gotten Hiddink. He would have been much cheaper, and is tactically the best manager in the world. It is honestly amazing at what he can do, or how he never fails.

Arshavin is class. He is not really a classic number 10. He is more like a second striker. I dont know if we need him, as that is Ibra place. According to Russian fans though, he can play as an AM or on the wings as well. F*ck his position, lets just get him, and put him some place.

It has been a long long time, since I have seen a single player dominate a game this much. Full credit ot rest of the Russian players as well.

Pavlyuchenko is like a russian trezeguet. (Bologna's new American owners were after him, but I doubt they will get him after this impressive Euro).


Full respect to Hiddink. For once, I would like to see him coach a big nation like France, Italy or some one. I wanna see how far he can go with them. He has become tactically much more astute than he was in 98.

Stefan
22 Jun 08, 07:49
As usual the Dutch crash when the pressure starts.

I just laugh at those who think Hiddink is better than Mou. Must be blinded by attacking football. He is a great manager better than Lippi but not close to Mou.

Also as good as arshavin has looked in these two games you need to actually see him for a few league games straight before you can decide if he is the real deal.

NimAraya
22 Jun 08, 08:07
I just laugh at those who think Hiddink is better than Mou. Must be blinded by attacking football. He is a great manager better than Lippi but not close to Mou.

What a joke of the comment! Don't try this again Stefan!

Stefan
22 Jun 08, 08:13
What a joke of the comment! Don't try this again Stefan!

:rolleyes:

Luka
22 Jun 08, 09:22
Oh man, how I wish we could have gotten Hiddink. He would have been much cheaper, and is tactically the best manager in the world. It is honestly amazing at what he can do, or how he never fails.

No he didn't actually. When he went to the one club he could prove himself he didn't exaclty do that well. After that he went to Sevilla and after the season ended he went straight to coach Korea.

From Wiki:

"He became the manager at Spain's Real Madrid in the summer of 1998, replacing Jupp Heynckes, but bad league form saw him get sacked after only half a season in January 1999."

Hiddink is a great tactician don't get me wrong, but getting Hiddink and not Jose would be a big mistake. Jose is the best that could happen for us, mark my words.



Also as good as arshavin has looked in these two games you need to actually see him for a few league games straight before you can decide if he is the real deal.
I agree, people can't start to be too overhyped by his 2 performances in EURO. But do you blame them ? :>

These 2 performances were magnificent, especially the one yesterday. I don't remember many(or even a few) players who amazed that much, went to the big club and floped. To me it's like Ribbery story, when they guy was splendid in Germany.

Advocat also said that he wants to try himself abroad. That was the only possibility here of him leaving, because GazProm doesn't need any money, so if the player was happy, they could just show finger to anybody in the world, probably making their faces look stunned. Even Real Madrid and their "greatness".

And LOL to those reports about 12 Mil pounds from Arsenal :D Don't those stupid reporters know, that GazProm is the producer of most of Europes gaz ? They have more money than Real Madrid, Man Utd, Barca and Chelsea all together.

Abramovich: "According to the 2007 Forbes magazine, as of 3 August 2007, he had a net worth of $18.7 billion,[1] and according to Russian Finance magazine, as of January 2007, his fortune was 551.0 billion rubles (roughly $23 billion)."

GazProm: "As measured by its market capitalization as of May 2008 (US$348 billion),[8] Gazprom is the world's third largest corporation following this measure.[9] Former Gazprom chairman Dmitry Medvedev hopes that the company's market capitalization will quadruple to reach one trillion dollars by 2017, and that this would make it the world's biggest corporation.[10]"

Those journalists are so stupid LOL :P

I also read a lot from others who do watch russian league, and they've said Arshavin is usually one of the best on the field for Zenit whenever they play, and that he exploded last year.

Ziyad
22 Jun 08, 09:49
Hiddink turned Russia into a raping machine yesterday.One of my favorite coaches does it again.What a great game and what a performance.I hope more of the smaller teams get inspired by this.

WOW

Handoyo
22 Jun 08, 10:02
Some coaches/players just shine in tournaments, but it certainly doesn't mean that that form will replicate in regular season or in 38-league-matches.

As for Arshavin, this guy can just call his family to start packing their home already. Obviously, most of us do not know him before the Euro or how he fares with Zenit (League & UEFA Cup double so must not be bad) but if we are to be blind and base a player's ability just on a tournament, this guy is a MUST BUY.

Luka
22 Jun 08, 10:47
Arshavins interview(translated in english) after the game:

RwrzDdSXT6U

ps. And like I said. From what I've read, Arshavin was one of the best players in Russia for some time now, and a splendid player for Zenit(the champion of Russia) and it's only because of the russian money and the fact that Arshavin couldn't show his abbilites(prior to UEFA Cup, and eliminations to EURO against England) that the foreign clubs didn't pursuit him very hard.

It's not the case now however, after his 2 amazing games on EUROs.

The only thing I ask is that he won't go to EPL. I wouldn't stand it, for such a gifted player to go there.

M.Adnan
22 Jun 08, 11:18
It seems that I missed a wonderful game. :(

Alex de Large
22 Jun 08, 12:59
Arshavin will obviously end in a BIG team this summer.

Cro Nerazzurro
22 Jun 08, 14:09
Brillant perforamnce by Russian, but like hamed said, not taking anything away from Russia, but Holand defence was nowhere, and there was no help from midfield.

I predicted after 2 games in groups that Holland wont go far, semis top.
And there you go, finally someone attacked them well and Holland is off.

Great game*****

shahz_nerazzurri
22 Jun 08, 15:57
I just laugh at those who think Hiddink is better than Mou. Must be blinded by attacking football. He is a great manager better than Lippi but not close to Mou.

And I really laugh at those, who think Mourinho is better than Hiddink. They must be blinded by English media hype. Or by the fact, that Hiddink cant give them statemetns like "I am sorry I am arrogant, but I am the best manager in the world, now go and have orgasm to what I just said". :rolleyes:

Hiddink is used to working in real pressure situations, with crap teams like S.Korea, Australia. He took PSV to CL semifinals in 2005 (he won the CL with PSV in 88), where they were extremely unlucky to crash out on away goals to Bilan. Hiddink didnt go to uncle Abrahimovic every time he had a problem.



Also as good as arshavin has looked in these two games you need to actually see him for a few league games straight before you can decide if he is the real deal.

Arshavin led Zenit St. Petersburg to their first Premier league title. In a league dominated by the Moscow teams, who have by far the most money, this was a remarkable achievement. Most importantly he led them to the Uefa cup, and was dynamite in 4-1 thrashing of Munich.



"He became the manager at Spain's Real Madrid in the summer of 1998, replacing Jupp Heynckes, but bad league form saw him get sacked after only half a season in January 1999."

That was 10 years ago. He has become much sharper now.


Oh man, i hope he is available next summer, after we fire mourinho.

Luka
22 Jun 08, 17:45
That was 10 years ago. He has become much sharper now.

Agreed it was some time ago, but it DID happen. So if someone could have said wherever he goes there is succes, can't say it after this spell. I'm not saying he won't, but he did flop there. Maybe(and I say MAYBE) it is because Real is one of the greatest teams in the world, and sometimes not everyone can coach the greatest, but he is good with good teams(but not great). Like Del Nerri, who was great with Chievo and than went to Roma(after Porto ?? ) and didn't do anything. It's example on not such a scale, but I think it shows my point.

I hope Hiddink will go to some great club, because he was great with PSV, and he was great with all NT that he coached since Sevilla time, but we have great, great man, and noone is more perfect than him for us, for our situation, for this environment.



Oh man, i hope he is available next summer, after we fire mourinho.
Dream on buddy :P

ps. Hiddink was my third choice after Spaletti, so I do rate him very, very high. But Joses achievments in last 5 years are just sick and out of this world, and we should be proud we have him.

NimAraya
22 Jun 08, 17:50
Oh man, i hope he is available next summer, after we fire mourinho.

Shahz, you always make a smile on my face!:D I hope too...

And to Luka, He's not GOD! Now go and find every little fail he had to justify your freak reasons.

Luka
22 Jun 08, 18:17
I didn't say he is God. I just said he is the best there is right now for Inter. That's a difference.

Ziyad
22 Jun 08, 18:18
He is great at taking small teams to the furthest point in there history.Its more in short tournaments though than long championships.

NimAraya
22 Jun 08, 19:46
I didn't say he is God. I just said he is the best there is right now for Inter. That's a difference.

I meant Hiddink is not God. You can't expect someone be successful in every thing. As your Josie in his last season with chelski even couldn't beat Rosenburg in his home!

Luka
22 Jun 08, 20:37
I meant Hiddink is not God. You can't expect someone be successful in every thing. As your Josie in his last season with chelski even couldn't beat Rosenburg in his home!
True he isn't God.

But tell me why Hiddink is so better than Jose(and in what), that you would be happy to replace Jose next year with Hiddink ?

Stefan
22 Jun 08, 21:29
Mourinho 12 major titles vs Guus Hiddink 12 major titles in their careers. Ones career has been a lot shorter than the other one. I rest my case.

NimAraya
22 Jun 08, 21:37
True he isn't God.

But tell me why Hiddink is so better than Jose(and in what), that you would be happy to replace Jose next year with Hiddink ?

I tried to be a little Mean Man here!:D Anyway I think Moroniho can resist here for maximum 2 years. I still rate Hiddink better than Moroniho because he was succeed almost everywhere he's gone in these years. Just look at what he has done to a helpless team like Russia.

Adam
22 Jun 08, 22:04
Mourinho 12 major titles vs Guus Hiddink 12 major titles in their careers. Ones career has been a lot shorter than the other one. I rest my case.

Where did you get Mourinho's 12 major titles? I count 8, that is if you count English league cups. And what kind of an argument is that anyway? How about you take a look at what Hiddink does to every single team he coaches. He makes them achieve result while making them play the game like it was supposed to be played. He's been doing that for 20 years.

Mourinho does the same resultwise but the difference is his teams are boring as fuck to watch, and he hasn't achieved half of what Hiddink has.

Leading South-Korea to semifinal in WC, Australia to QF, and Russia to semifinal in EC, and making them play great is equal to winning the Champions league 3 times, or at least not far from it.

What's even more impressive is he's done all that within six years. Mourinho is great and maybe he will achieve what Hiddink has someday but claiming they have achieved the same is ridiculous, to say the least.

shahz_nerazzurri
22 Jun 08, 22:23
Only an idiot would put FA cup, Community shield and the other crap they play in England as a major title. I mean FFS community shield vs taking S.Korea to World cup semis. :dielaugh:

Also it wont take a genius to realise that an International manger doesnt get as much chance to win a trophy like a domestic manager. You can only win a trophy once every two years. Not to mention when you care coaching the likes of Austrlia or S.Korea, you wont win anything. While a manager of a domestic league can win uhh like 4-5 trophies in a year.


But tell me why Hiddink is so better than Jose(and in what), that you would be happy to replace Jose next year with Hiddink ?

1. He is better.

2. He is tactically much more astute than Mouirnho.

3. He plays great football, rather than the crap Mourinho plays.

4. He doenst go to uncle Abrahimovic for money after every 2 games.

5. He knows how to handle pressure. Mourinho only knows act tough in pressure less situations. There never really is pressure from the fans or media, when you are manager of a football club in England.

6. He has been successful with every country/club he has coached in the last 8 years.

7. He has performed miracles like taking S.korea to the WC semis or taking Australia to the World cup, and then to the round of 16, and now with Russia. Miracles Mourinho cant even dream of.

8. He has more experience coaching.

Disadvantages.

1. He doesnt give out orgasmic quotes, like I am the best in the world, pls wank over me.

2. He hasnt coached England or in England, which is the true test of a man's character. Fu_ck the world cup and shit.

3. He play better football than Mourinho, but Mourinho thanks to backing of english media is mroe marketable. And will probably get a few more dumb fu*cks to watch our game.

4..... thats that.

Hiddink might be on par with Lippi, his football style is much better than Lippi. But he is miles ahead of Mourinho.

Stefan
22 Jun 08, 22:27
Where did you get Mourinho's 12 major titles? I count 8, that is if you count English league cups. And what kind of an argument is that anyway? How about you take a look at what Hiddink does to every single team he coaches. He makes them achieve result while making them play the game like it was supposed to be played. He's been doing that for 20 years.

Mourinho does the same resultwise but the difference is his teams are boring as fuck to watch, and he hasn't achieved half of what Hiddink has.

Leading South-Korea to semifinal in WC, Australia to QF, and Russia to semifinal in EC, and making them play great is equal to winning the Champions league 3 times, or at least not far from it.

What's even more impressive is he's done all that within six years. Mourinho is great and maybe he will achieve what Hiddink has someday but claiming they have achieved the same is ridiculous, to say the least.



Boring is a matter of opinion.;) I find Jose teams stimulating to watch. I could care less whether the side entertains or not all that matters is getting results , as long as you don't cheat.


Sources:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mourinho#Honours
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guus_Hiddink#Club_Honours

Hiddinks honours:


Eredivisie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eredivisie): 1986/1987 1987/1988 1988/1989 2002/2003 2004/2005 2005/2006

KNVB Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KNVB_Cup): 1987/1988 1988/1989 1989/1990 2004/2005

European Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League): 1987/1988
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Flag_of_Spain.svg/22px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Spain.svg) Real Madrid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Madrid_CF)

Intercontinental Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercontinental_Cup_%28football%29): 1998



Jose's honours:





With F.C. Porto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.C._Porto):
Portuguese Championships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Liga) (2): 2002/03 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002-03_in_Portuguese_football); 2003/04 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003-04_in_Portuguese_football)
SuperCup Cāndido de Oliveira (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperCup_C%C3%A2ndido_de_Oliveira): 2003
Cup of Portugal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_of_Portugal): 2002/03
UEFA Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Cup): 2002/03 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Cup_2002-03)
UEFA Champions League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League): 2003/04 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League_2003-04)
With Chelsea FC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_FC):
FA Premier League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Premier_League) (2): 2004/05 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Premier_League_2004-05); 2005/06 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Premier_League_2005-06)
Football League Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_Cup) (2): 2004/05 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_Cup_Final_2005), 2006/07 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_Cup_Final_2007)
FA Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Cup): 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Cup_Final_2007)
FA Community Shield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Community_Shield): 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_FA_Community_Shield)

Stefan
22 Jun 08, 22:30
Only an idiot would put FA cup, Community shield and the other crap they play in England as a major title. I mean FFS community shield vs taking S.Korea to World cup semis. :dielaugh:

Also it wont take a genius to realise that an International manger doesnt get as much chance to win a trophy like a domestic manager. You can only win a trophy once every two years. Not to mention when you care coaching the likes of Austrlia or S.Korea, you wont win anything. While a manager of a domestic league can win uhh like 4-5 trophies in a year.



1. He is better.

2. He is tactically much more astute than Mouirnho.

3. He plays great football, rather than the crap Mourinho plays.

4. He doenst go to uncle Abrahimovic for money after every 2 games.

5. He knows how to handle pressure. Mourinho only knows act tough in pressure less situations. There never really is pressure from the fans or media, when you are manager of a football club in England.

6. He has been successful with every country/club he has coached in the last 8 years.

7. He has performed miracles like taking S.korea to the WC semis or taking Australia to the World cup, and then to the round of 16, and now with Russia. Miracles Mourinho cant even dream of.

8. He has more experience coaching.

Disadvantages.

1. He doesnt give out orgasmic quotes, like I am the best in the world, pls wank over me.

2. He hasnt coached England or in England, which is the true test of a man's character. Fu_ck the world cup and shit.

3. He play better football than Mourinho, but Mourinho thanks to backing of english media is mroe marketable. And will probably get a few more dumb fu*cks to watch our game.

4..... thats that.

Hiddink might be on par with Lippi, his football style is much better than Lippi. But he is miles ahead of Mourinho.

I included Guus's world club cup with real madrid as well.;)

Please explain how Mou can't dream of achieving that. If he wanted to I am sure he could. They just couldn't afford him and as he said before only old men manage international teams.;)

Adam
23 Jun 08, 01:20
Boring is a matter of opinion.;) I find Jose teams stimulating to watch. I could care less whether the side entertains or not all that matters is getting results , as long as you don't cheat.


Stefan, you're smart enough to know that comparing ALL the titles respective managers have won and equating their worth, is a weak, flawed argument so I'll just leave the Hiddink-Mourinho debate at that. What does it matter anyway.;)

But on the issue of playing entertaining foorball, you're right in saying that all that matters is getting the result. In the end winning is the most important thing and how you got there is less important. But, there is another aspect to it, and that is earning the respect and admiration of the football community, and you won't do that by playing what I, and a majority of the football loving World, call boring football.

Take Greece as an example. They were huge underdogs in the tornament four years ago and they won it by playing something that I would describe best as anti-football. Granted, they played smart and to the best of their abilities but did anyone really call them "the best" or deserved champions? Maybe some did, I certainly didn't. I gave them congrats on the win and concluded that Euro04 has been a disappointing tournament.

Now take Russia as an example. The respect they get is unheard of for an underdog team. Media all over the World are competing in giving Russia the most praise in their headlines. And everywhere I go on forums everyone is starting to cheer for Russia, and that's because they are underdogs who look and play like champions, or at least try. Seriously when I go around town and I hear people talk football, they are all talking about Russia and how good they are. Four years ago all I heard was a lot of "fucking Greece" comments.

They could lose against Spain with 3-0 and still most people & media will give them more respect than they did for Greece who won the whole thing. I think that's saying something about what kind of football Inter should aspire to play, but maybe that's just me.

Hammoudi
23 Jun 08, 02:02
I kind of agree with Stefan, and what Ziyad said was dead-on. You can't extrapolate his form with small NT's without alot of pressure to big clubs in a 40+ games season.

His time with Real wasn't great, but he replaced a coach who was unfairly fired (won the CL then got fired!) So the expectations and the pressure were kind of unfair. But he was mature at that time and had stints in La liga and dutch leagues but he still couldn't handle it.

Luka
23 Jun 08, 07:04
I tried to be a little Mean Man here!:D Anyway I think Moroniho can resist here for maximum 2 years. I still rate Hiddink better than Moroniho because he was succeed almost everywhere he's gone in these years. Just look at what he has done to a helpless team like Russia.
What about Jose? Didn't he succed wherever he went also?

Leira - 3rd place in Portugal
Porto - Leagues titles, UEFA, CL, Portuguese cups
Cheslea - LEague titles, English cups, twice in semi final of CL

Isn't that the same story? The difference between them is like Stefan said, Jose is coaching on top scene(lets say that is Porto) for just 6 years now. Just 6 years! He is a phenomenon. And only 45 years old.


Where did you get Mourinho's 12 major titles? I count 8, that is if you count English league cups. And what kind of an argument is that anyway? How about you take a look at what Hiddink does to every single team he coaches. He makes them achieve result while making them play the game like it was supposed to be played. He's been doing that for 20 years.

Mourinho does the same resultwise but the difference is his teams are boring as fuck to watch, and he hasn't achieved half of what Hiddink has.

Leading South-Korea to semifinal in WC, Australia to QF, and Russia to semifinal in EC, and making them play great is equal to winning the Champions league 3 times, or at least not far from it.

What's even more impressive is he's done all that within six years. Mourinho is great and maybe he will achieve what Hiddink has someday but claiming they have achieved the same is ridiculous, to say the least.
Like I said, Hiddink was great with NT, he always is, but coaching Korea, Australia(!), Russia. You say they are favourites to win the Cups, like Chelsea, Porto(at home ground) or Inter? People, give me a break.

I would put them at par at best, but no way someone can say Hiddink is better over him.



4. He doenst go to uncle Abrahimovic for money after every 2 games.
5. He knows how to handle pressure. Mourinho only knows act tough in pressure less situations. There never really is pressure from the fans or media, when you are manager of a football club in England.
6. He has been successful with every country/club he has coached in the last 8 years.
7. He has performed miracles like taking S.korea to the WC semis or taking Australia to the World cup, and then to the round of 16, and now with Russia. Miracles Mourinho cant even dream of.

You got to be shitting me Shahz. Really.

How many times people were talking here about the trasfers of Jose at Chelsea. Didn't you miss the part where Jose wanted just 1, 2 players in his last year at chelsea ?! It's all the time the same story. Ballack and Sheva, blah, blah, blah.

Also, I'm sure he wanted players for 30 Milion every 2 weeks at Porto too.

ps. And what does "astute" mean ?

And LOL at the fifth sentence. WTH man ? Yeah, there's never a pressure, when you go to the club, and your first words are "I'm the special one". I'm sure :] The club where Chelsea with Abramovic MUST HAVE SUCCEDED both at national level and international level.

Now I'm sure Korea and Australia media were saying before WC that if Hiddink won't deliever them the cup, he is fired LOL.

And maybe Jose wasn't succesfull with every club he coached either ? And the so called "miracles" ? Leira to go to the third place, and I'm sure Porto is winning CL cups on a daily basis.

I have to talk down of Hiddink, which I didn't want to do, because I rate him high, but comparing Hiddink, to a 45 year old coach, who is a phenomenon if one would see his coaching steps since. I won't ever deny the fact Hiddink is playing one of the best football a man can watch, but in the end what counts is result.

Stefan
23 Jun 08, 07:25
Stefan, you're smart enough to know that comparing ALL the titles respective managers have won and equating their worth, is a weak, flawed argument so I'll just leave the Hiddink-Mourinho debate at that. What does it matter anyway.;)

But on the issue of playing entertaining foorball, you're right in saying that all that matters is getting the result. In the end winning is the most important thing and how you got there is less important. But, there is another aspect to it, and that is earning the respect and admiration of the football community, and you won't do that by playing what I, and a majority of the football loving World, call boring football.



I couldn't care less what the others say. Besides we are respected today cause of what Herrera and his cattenacio La Grande Inter did.

As long as Inter win I don't care what the rest think. We are not barca or real who need entertaining football. We were build on cattenacio.

I prefer the tactical game of Mou and Capello over the facny move football played by the other managers any day of the week.

NimAraya
23 Jun 08, 09:07
Luka, I know Josie is better than a piece of trash but let's see what he's capable to do in Italia, a very special place for almost everyone in football!

And about Hiddink and resisting on his success in small teams! I donno what the hell is this shit all about?! NT are different from clubs. What do u mean he's successful in just small teams or small N teams?!! PSV, S.Korea, Australia, Russia, Holland 1998...Look at these teams when Hiddink was at the head of them. They are from different part fo the world and u really have to be 'Special' to make them great and Hiddink did it well! I mean Russia that was a real joke in football DESTROYED the best team in Euro2008 Holland. How many teams got played by your special's teams like that?!

Luka
23 Jun 08, 09:56
[...]let's see what he's capable to do in Italia, a very special place for almost everyone in football!

Couldn't agree more with you NimAraya on that one.

As for Hiddink, let me say it again. Hiddink is great coach, HE IS. I rate him higher than Lippi. To me to watch every team he guides, whether it is PSV, or Holland, or Russia, or Korea, and play great offensive football is a joy to watch. He was my third choice after Jose and Spaletti, and that says it all how high I rate him.

IF, we were the fans of Barcelona or Real I would want Hiddink much more than Jose for example. But we have to look at the whole picture here in "Inters frame", not just couple of details. I wrote a lot of stuff why I believe there isn't better coach in the world currently for us than Jose. And I wasn't only focusing myself on tactical aspect or how much he won, because Inter is like Jose said, a special club, and it is a special environment. Mostly a pressure is incredible, and the things italian media are doing to us. Jose is something of a "Buffer" of "FireWall" for club and players in that aspects. He stops most of this talk with him. All the things he says "I'm a special one" and we are the best and all that, is so that the press can focus on what he says, and not put pressure on players, but solely on him.

And one more thing. Many of you know this but anyway... Russia almost missed EURO. They had to win with Israel in the second from last game, where Israel was already out, and they failed to do it. And in last game they had to count on Croatia beating England away, and also they had to win agains Andorra which they barely do(1-0). It's irrelevant right now to the form Russia is presenting now, but still I thought it is worth mentioning that Russia were a little lucky to got into EURO(If England would even draw, they would go to the EURO not Russia).

NimAraya
23 Jun 08, 10:23
Yeah Denmark was lucky too in 1992 when they failed to qualify to euro1992 but replaced yoguslavia whom was banned from international competitions and then won the tornument!

What do u want to say?! Almost for the really stupid and bizzare way of drawing many good teams fail to qualify, and examples are numerous! So what do u want to say?! Because they hardly qualified then they are not that important?! So you have to say Turkey is better than France, Romania, Italia and even Czech Republic that they've beat in a very bizzare way?! They qualified from very difficult groups, both in qualification and group stage.

Moroniho still has a long way to prove himself because he was just in 2 countries so far, which the last one keeps their coaches for more than a decade! Have u seen or heard any coach complain about the pressure in england?!!!!! HAHA...:lol:

Luka
23 Jun 08, 11:04
NimAraya, why are you so offensive?

Didn't I just said: "It's irrelevant right now to the form Russia is presenting now" ???

And Mourinho has still a long way to proove himself ?

:D

Wow. I guess what a coach has to do in 6 years to prove himself is much more than 12 cups involving CL, UEFA cup, and twice dommestic league winners for two different teams. I guess there are tons more of coaches who have done more than him in so short period of time. Oh, it wouldn't hurt if we filtered out all the cases with coaches that are/were over 50 either.

NimAraya
23 Jun 08, 11:47
NimAraya, why are you so offensive?

Didn't I just said: "It's irrelevant right now to the form Russia is presenting now" ???

And Mourinho has still a long way to proove himself ?

:D

Wow. I guess what a coach has to do in 6 years to prove himself is much more than 12 cups involving CL, UEFA cup, and twice dommestic league winners for two different teams. I guess there are tons more of coaches who have done more than him in so short period of time. Oh, it wouldn't hurt if we filtered out all the cases with coaches that are/were over 50 either.

Did I look offensive?!! Then how about people that was treating their own coach like shit, someone whom brought them success that they could only dream before he comes here?! U forgot how u and some other ones here was insulting Mancini like he's a punk?!

I won't repeat myself. I said what was needed to say. And winning micky mouse cups won't make someone special and if has balls then let him show it in Italia! I'm justing waiting to see! I can say winning Euro is more important than CL, so Oto Rehagel that has won it with losers Greece in 2004 is more special than urs that has won CL with Porto!

Luka
23 Jun 08, 12:12
Yeah, offensive :P

To me "What do u want to say?! Almost for the really stupid and bizzare way of drawing many good teams fail to qualify, and examples are numerous! So what do u want to say?!" that's not calm :>

Anyway to me looking at things objectively is not ignorance. To me ignorance is looking at plain numbers without all the things behind the curtuin. Like we won 3 straight scudettos, couple of cups, and that's the end of the discussion. That's ignorance to me.

I think I didn't insult Mancini. I was sometimes harsh with him, in a heat of the moment(like Liverpool games), but my points I made there(even that they were maybe a little to hars) still stands, and I will say it now, and in 10 years time too.

The things we said before were partialy just confirmed by players, so why do you pretend everything was in perfect order? Didn't players said the atmosphere was bad, and his comments weren't good for them ?

Why do you ignore the obvious signs that Mancini couldn't keep going like that ?

NimAraya
23 Jun 08, 12:46
You moreover some known members were always against Mancini in these last months and kissing Moronio ass like he's jesus Christ, although he wasn't still here and has not done shit yet!

I didn't want Mancini to leave at all, but I mentioned that if he's gonna leave he should leave in a respetcful way, because if you like it or not, he always will be remembered as an Inter legend for his achievements. But even after all that happened you was still supporting this way of sacking him because all in all you were just blind by the orgasm you had with Moroniho and didn't give a damn about Mancini.

Luka
23 Jun 08, 13:05
You moreover some known members were always against Mancini in these last months and kissing Moronio ass like he's jesus Christ, although he wasn't still here and has not done shit yet!

We were very hoping he will come. Yes, and? If Messi was about to come to Inter, I'm almost sure you would be acting in the same way(because everybody would). Some people can see why Jose is perfect for Inter, and some don't. Sorry, but it's not my problem. I was very happy when Jose signed for us, and not you, or anybody else can forbid me from being happy. I was rooting for him since Liverpool games, and sorry, but if somebody has something against it, it doesn't mean much to me.



I didn't want Mancini to leave at all, but I mentioned that if he's gonna leave he should leave in a respetcful way, because if you like it or not, he always will be remembered as an Inter legend for his achievements. But even after all that happened you was still supporting this way of sacking him because all in all you were just blind by the orgasm you had with Moroniho and didn't give a damn about Mancini.
Newsflash. Even italian fans were in the end up for Jose, and outnumbered the ones who said they didn't want a change.

I wasn't happy that we had to do it that way, but it was necessary.

And why do you still ignore what I've said. Players themselves have said the atmosphere was not as it should be, and many players were happy Jose came. What else do you need. A popes confession ?

NimAraya
23 Jun 08, 13:35
What else do you need. A popes confession ?

thx I'm not into religions. I rather get off this debate as I tried for a while now.

shahz_nerazzurri
23 Jun 08, 16:45
Leira - 3rd place in Portugal
Porto - Leagues titles, UEFA, CL, Portuguese cups
Cheslea - LEague titles, English cups, twice in semi final of CL

So now a 3rd place in Portugese league is special??



Just 6 years! He is a phenomenon. And only 45 years old.
He is phenomenon, cause he gives stupid comments, and english media loves him. They can make me a phenomenon, if they want to.
Had he stayed in Porto, would you have wanted him here? No you probably would have said that he only has success managing a small team in a small league.


How many times people were talking here about the trasfers of Jose at Chelsea. Didn't you miss the part where Jose wanted just 1, 2 players in his last year at chelsea ?! It's all the time the same story. Ballack and Sheva, blah, blah, blah.
HE never wanted one or two players. Just that in his first two years, he had an unlimited cheque book, but then Abrahimovic decided to tighten it up.


Also, I'm sure he wanted players for 30 Milion every 2 weeks at Porto too. [quote]
Naah, Pinto Da Costa took care of that, by whoring prostitutes all around town.
Hiddink won in 88 with PSV, with a much smaller budget than Porto. And their manager wasnt whoring prostitue all around town. And then in 04-05, Hiddink's PSV once again went to the semis of the CL, with probably 5% of the budget which Mourinho's Chelsea had.

[Quote] ps. And what does "astute" mean ?
sharp, clever, shrewd etc.


And LOL at the fifth sentence. WTH man ? Yeah, there's never a pressure, when you go to the club, and your first words are "I'm the special one". I'm sure :] The club where Chelsea with Abramovic MUST HAVE SUCCEDED both at national level and international level.

There is never pressure in England at club level from the media or from the fans. Now they have foreign owners who demand instant success. But still, the media doesnt bother you if you are a manager of a club. You can give out quotes like "I am the special one, pls wank over me", and they would laugh. Can you imagine him coming from Porto directly to Inter, and saying something like that? Can you imagine him handling the pressure thats at an Italian club? In England the only person truly under pressure is the NT boss.



Now I'm sure Korea and Australia media were saying before WC that if Hiddink won't deliever them the cup, he is fired LOL.
Well he resigned after each of these tournaments so it doenst really matter. But when you are coaching at international level, you have the whole burden of hopes of the entire nation on you. True suppoters, not glory hunters who dont know anything about the game. You know you dont wanna dissapoint them. In places like S.Korea, despite not having a very solid soccer back ground, people are football crazy. And no more about football, than any idiotic Chelsea fna would ever know in his life.


And maybe Jose wasn't succesfull with every club he coached either ? And the so called "miracles" ? Leira to go to the third place, and I'm sure Porto is winning CL cups on a daily basis.
You cant compare thew miracles performed by the two.
Hiddink performs miracles on continuous bases. Mourinho couldnt even perform the normal task of leading Chelsea to a CL final, ever after spending 80mil pounds every season.
I would like to see Mourinho become the manager of Siena and lead them to CL or something.


but comparing Hiddink, to a 45 year old coach, who is a phenomenon if one would see his coaching steps since.

He isnt a phenomenon, you and other gullible fans just make him a phenomenon. For me and most the of knowledgeable fans, Hiddink is the real phenomenon.


I won't ever deny the fact Hiddink is playing one of the best football a man can watch, but in the end what counts is result.

I dont really care about the style of play. Hiddink has proven record of better results than Mourinho.

Luka
23 Jun 08, 18:09
So now a 3rd place in Portugese league is special??

It is if you would knew what kind of a team Leira was at those days. Just take a look at wikipedia. They were founded in 1966.



He is phenomenon, cause he gives stupid comments, and english media loves him. They can make me a phenomenon, if they want to.
Had he stayed in Porto, would you have wanted him here? No you probably would have said that he only has success managing a small team in a small league.

You are stating obvious shahz. What's the point?

If Hiddink would coach some middle table holland team for 8 years, you wouldn't want him either would you?

But Jose DID do well in England, and I can say that he succeded not only with Porto. As to the comments remarks, english media loves him? I don't know. But I can tell you this. No matter what he would say, if he wouldn't succed with Chelsea as he did, he wouldn't be right now in a place he is. He would be a dork, or someone worse. The one who says something is sure of himself, and than fails. That's worse. Instead, Jose by his comments lifted up Chelsea status in England(along with Abramovic) to the biggest force in England, because at one point even Man Utd or Arsenal were seen as inferior.

And AGAIN, he says what he says for a reason for God sake. Just watch the interview of BBC of him and listen to the guy for a minute, instead of just jumping in the anti-Jose hype.



HE never wanted one or two players. Just that in his first two years, he had an unlimited cheque book, but then Abrahimovic decided to tighten it up.

Yeah... Way to go Roman!!! Monsterous deal for Ballack, and 30 Mil pounds for Sheva. Now, THAT has to be some new level of tightening up. One thing Abramovic wants is to make his Chelsea a star team, like Brasil or someone, to have many individualities. What Jose wanted is to have a TEAM, that noone is superiour to others. He knew that after some time, but Abramovic wanted to make some star signing like Real is doing from time to time. He didn't think about the team, he was thinking about himself. And when Jose failed to fit those 2 blocks in a team, he fired him. Way to go Roman!



Naah, Pinto Da Costa took care of that, by whoring prostitutes all around town.

I'm sorry. What that has to do with the transfer policiec at Porto at that time ? Did those prostitues were "hired" to do Roman and at night steal his money, so Jose can make some 30 Milion transfers?



Hiddink won in 88 with PSV, with a much smaller budget than Porto. And their manager wasnt whoring prostitue all around town. And then in 04-05, Hiddink's PSV once again went to the semis of the CL, with probably 5% of the budget which Mourinho's Chelsea had.

Jose won CL with Porto with 1% of Reals budget. Your point ?

Obviously I don't know whether this 1% is right, but I'm curious how do you know that ?


There is never pressure in England at club level from the media or from the fans. Now they have foreign owners who demand instant success. But still, the media doesnt bother you if you are a manager of a club. You can give out quotes like "I am the special one, pls wank over me", and they would laugh. Can you imagine him coming from Porto directly to Inter, and saying something like that? Can you imagine him handling the pressure thats at an Italian club? In England the only person truly under pressure is the NT boss.

I'm sure Grant can say something about "no pressure in press in England". After all, they were all year crapping over him and "his" Chelsea.

Do you listen to yourself Shahz? No pressure from the press. That can say some Division 5 club, not Chelsea. The press is very much alike the fans. If the owner of the club is someone like Abramovich, and your club is tipped to win it all, the press plays along, and when time comes when you flop, the press isn't putting a jokes on the front page. If the press over there is so "easy", where did come this arrogence of theirs against italian and spanish teams?

It's true that in England they usually don't fire the coaches as often as in Spain or Italy, but to say there is never a pressure from the fans or press(in Joses Chelseas case) is absurd.



Well he resigned after each of these tournaments so it doenst really matter. But when you are coaching at international level, you have the whole burden of hopes of the entire nation on you. True suppoters, not glory hunters who dont know anything about the game. You know you dont wanna dissapoint them. In places like S.Korea, despite not having a very solid soccer back ground, people are football crazy. And no more about football, than any idiotic Chelsea fna would ever know in his life.

I never say there is no pressure or something. But you can't tell me that when Hiddinks Korea would flop in WC and wouldn't be able to get out of the group, is the same as if Brasil did the same thing.



You cant compare thew miracles performed by the two.
Hiddink performs miracles on continuous bases. Mourinho couldnt even perform the normal task of leading Chelsea to a CL final, ever after spending 80mil pounds every season.
I would like to see Mourinho become the manager of Siena and lead them to CL or something.

How about let him coach Serie C2 Monza, and demand from him Serie A and CL in 4 years! Come on, lets be reasonable here. BTW, someone told me not to expect Hiddink to be God there, and what you're doing here ? :P

I don't know how many times this whole CL thing we'll get over. Money doesn't mean success. No quality no chance as Jose says. But that's it. A CHANCE, not a freeking guarantese. He did all he could do, and as he said, you can't win it all. Show me an example of coach who is winning CL along with domestic league every 2, 3 years ALL THE TIME. That's insane. Jose lost once to the goal that never came, and the second time in Pens.



He isnt a phenomenon, you and other gullible fans just make him a phenomenon. For me and most the of knowledgeable fans, Hiddink is the real phenomenon.

I hope for our sake you're wrong. I don't know where it comes from. Weren't you the one who was excited when Jose has his press conference? The man didn't even showed what he can do at Inter yet, and you're already thinking the worse.



I dont really care about the style of play. Hiddink has proven record of better results than Mourinho.
That's probably why Hiddink didn't manage a top club since his flop at Madrid I'm sure. That's already 8 years.

shahz_nerazzurri
24 Jun 08, 01:54
It is if you would knew what kind of a team Leira was at those days. Just take a look at wikipedia. They were founded in 1966.
Firstly he took Leira to fifth position, and not third. Maybe we should get Jamie Pacheco who took Boastiva to their first title that year.


If Hiddink would coach some middle table holland team for 8 years, you wouldn't want him either would you? My bad about proper explanation. If Mourinho would have gone to Barca or Madrid, and won two titles on the trot, you still wouldnt have wanted him.


But Jose DID do well in England, and I can say that he succeded not only with Porto. Give me an unlimited budget, I could have won the league with Chelsea. Okay, maybe not me. But any other dumb idiotic coach could. Just look at what Grant did. If Jose would have not dropped them to 8th place, they would have been champions under Grant.


As to the comments remarks, english media loves him? I don't know. He gave them quotes, so gullible people can read it, and wank over it.


But I can tell you this. No matter what he would say, if he wouldn't succed with Chelsea as he did, he wouldn't be right now in a place he is. Success depends a lot on money.


The one who says something is sure of himself, and than fails. That's worse. Instead, Jose by his comments lifted up Chelsea status in England(along with Abramovic) to the biggest force in England, because at one point even Man Utd or Arsenal were seen as inferior. Chelsea were already something under Ranieri. He took them to second spot, just after one year of spending $100mill. Had Abra stgick with him, and given him another $100mills, he would have won the title.


And AGAIN, he says what he says for a reason for God sake. Just watch the interview of BBC of him and listen to the guy for a minute, instead of just jumping in the anti-Jose hype. What he says, is what any idiot can say. Most of the managers are too respectful to say that. He is a smart man though. He knows how to make gullible people like him.



Yeah... Way to go Roman!!! Monsterous deal for Ballack, and 30 Mil pounds for Sheva. Now, THAT has to be some new level of tightening up. One thing Abramovic wants is to make his Chelsea a star team, like Brasil or someone, to have many individualities. What Jose wanted is to have a TEAM, that noone is superiour to others. He knew that after some time, but Abramovic wanted to make some star signing like Real is doing from time to time. He didn't think about the team, he was thinking about himself. And when Jose failed to fit those 2 blocks in a team, he fired him. Way to go Roman! Ballack did very well under Grant. It was Jose's fault that he couldnt stick him in to the team.


I'm sorry. What that has to do with the transfer policiec at Porto at that time ? Did those prostitues were "hired" to do Roman and at night steal his money, so Jose can make some 30 Milion transfers? He didnt need the money, cause Pinto da costa, was whoring prostitutes to the refs. He was buying refs instead of the players.



Jose won CL with Porto with 1% of Reals budget. Your point? Hiddink despite leading a team like PSV for just a few years, has had more success in CL than Mourinho.


I'm sure Grant can say something about "no pressure in press in England". After all, they were all year crapping over him and "his" Chelsea. He didnt give them good quotes. The press were affected by his boring nature, and by their love for Jose. It would only take an idiot to bash Grant, for what he had done for Chelsea.


It's true that in England they usually don't fire the coaches as often as in Spain or Italy, but to say there is never a pressure from the fans or press(in Joses Chelseas case) is absurd. The pressure in England is much less than pressure in Italy or Spain. The only time one really faces pressure in England is when they become the head of the NT.


I never say there is no pressure or something. But you can't tell me that when Hiddinks Korea would flop in WC and wouldn't be able to get out of the group, is the same as if Brasil did the same thing. He has the weight of expectations. Every one thinks of him as the miracle worker and he never disappoints. He leads teams to places that no one else. (except for that teams fans) expects him to lead to.


How about let him coach Serie C2 Monza, and demand from him Serie A and CL in 4 years! Come on, lets be reasonable here.Hiddink can do that. :P Realistically I think Hiddink can take a team like Firoentina to the title.


I don't know how many times this whole CL thing we'll get over. Money doesn't mean success. Really???? I wonder why Chelsea never won anything before Abrahimovic. Must be a coincidence that they are winning all this shit now.


Show me an example of coach who is winning CL along with domestic league every 2, 3 years ALL THE TIME. That's insane. Jose lost once to the goal that never came, and the second time in Pens. Fersguson has a better record than him, and so does Rijkaard.



That's probably why Hiddink didn't manage a top club since his flop at Madrid I'm sure. That's already 8 years.This isnt a very smart point. Why is managing a top club more respectable than managing a country? Just because clubs can make you your fan, and have started making more money, doesnt mean its the real think.
Hiddink likes a challenge, rather than being handed things on a golden platter like at Chelsea or Inter. Hiddink takes on a challenge, like the one at S.Korea, Australia, PSV and now Russia.
He is being paid by these clubs a very good amount. Why should he go back to European club football?


Anyways, I think we are just repeating points after points. You stick to your evaluation of Jose, and I will stick to my evaluation of Hiddink.

snake
24 Jun 08, 02:11
I couldnt be bothered reading the best, both are great coaches..but I must correct two things.





Give me an unlimited budget, I could have won the league with Chelsea. Okay, maybe not me. But any other dumb idiotic coach could. Just look at what Grant did. If Jose would have not dropped them to 8th place, they would have been champions under Grant.

Dude, Jose spent so little compared to Raineri and he won it so convincingly. I dont care what you say, Money does not imply success. Rainieri will tell you, he spent millions on every position and his team wasnt a speck of Jose's.




Chelsea were already something under Ranieri. He took them to second spot, just after one year of spending $100mill. Had Abra stgick with him, and given him another $100mills, he would have won the title.


lol Chelsea werent that good under Rainieri. You can spend all the money in the world, but if you dont know how to spend it on the players you need and how to use those players, you will get nowhere. I.e. Claudio!

rockball
24 Jun 08, 07:04
Success depends a lot on money.


Well shahz, if you are saying this then how come you hate Arsene so much. For the money he has spent, he has won a lot.
Forget about the feeder mentality, as a coach you can have no qualms with him.

Luka
24 Jun 08, 07:22
Firstly he took Leira to fifth position, and not third. Maybe we should get Jamie Pacheco who took Boastiva to their first title that year.

He took them to the third place, there is a mistake. He says third place, and in all the biographys it says it was third and UEFA cup spot. I don't know why they have 5th. Maybe Leiria was involved in some match fixing and they adjusted the table after couple of years I don't know.

But Jose clearly says 3rd in his interview to BBC when he was still coaching chelsea.

And 3rd place was to this day the highest place of Leiria, and the only one they played UEFA Cup.



If Mourinho would have gone to Barca or Madrid, and won two titles on the trot, you still wouldnt have wanted him.

???



Give me an unlimited budget, I could have won the league with Chelsea. Okay, maybe not me. But any other dumb idiotic coach could. Just look at what Grant did. If Jose would have not dropped them to 8th place, they would have been champions under Grant.

Again, all this dumb talk about Grant. Grant is fired! Not even that. He is not linked to anyone, and there were couple of jobs in EPL for taking this year. He did nothing comparing to Mourinho, because he was there only 8 months, and that is nothing to judge the coach for. If he would stay as long as Jose, we would then see how he did.

And this unlimited budget... :> I'm sure you would buy Messi, Ronaldo, Kaka, Ramos, Buffon and such right ? :)

First, money can't buy it all. Secondly, no denial that Chelsea had a lot of money, but so did Man Utd, Arsenal and partly Liverpool(it's not like in Italy for past couple of years), and Jose still won it so convincingly with the record of points in one season. Money can't win you anything if other clubs are also as good as you, and have/are spending, money.

You could probably win it in Italy, I can give you that, just because other teams were so inferiour to ours, and we had the best squad of all. Much better, but in England there were couple of very equal teams in terms of depth and it would be completely different.



He gave them quotes, so gullible people can read it, and wank over it.

Worked as charm didn't it? :) People and press were talking about him, and his arrogence, rather than about the players.



Success depends a lot on money.

Where did I said it doesn't ??? "No quality - no chance". Familiar with the term I already quoted here couple of times ?



Chelsea were already something under Ranieri. He took them to second spot, just after one year of spending $100mill. Had Abra stgick with him, and given him another $100mills, he would have won the title.

Yeah, but he didn't stick with him. In fact he went to Valencia where he didn't do great either, and then it was Parma, and now JuBe, where he pretends he knows what he is doing. It is all just pure guess what you're doing. The facts are simple, that it was Jose who won 2 titles, not Ranieri.

You like to guess? I like too. I can easily say following you in this, that if Jose would take over Ranieri from the start of Abramovich era, he would have won the title right away, not the second place. Like it ? :)



What he says, is what any idiot can say. Most of the managers are too respectful to say that. He is a smart man though. He knows how to make gullible people like him.

Have you watched the interview yet or not?

Don't be limited man. I've read from many milan and JuBe fans, what I just told you about his comments.



Ballack did very well under Grant. It was Jose's fault that he couldnt stick him in to the team.

It was Joses fault? If Roman would buy him 30 new players, it would be also Joses fault he couldn't possibly deal with it ?

Jose is the coach, not Abramovich. No coach in the world, and especialy no Jose, would be OK with doing something against his will, AND after that demand the results.



He didnt need the money, cause Pinto da costa, was whoring prostitutes to the refs. He was buying refs instead of the players.

All the way to the final of CL and UEFA Cup also ?



Hiddink despite leading a team like PSV for just a few years, has had more success in CL than Mourinho.

Please, do tell.



He didnt give them good quotes. The press were affected by his boring nature, and by their love for Jose. It would only take an idiot to bash Grant, for what he had done for Chelsea.

Nobody is bashing Grant of anything. What I'm doing, is bashing people who compare Joses accomplishments to 8 month spell of Grant in Chelsea.



The pressure in England is much less than pressure in Italy or Spain. The only time one really faces pressure in England is when they become the head of the NT.

Again... first you say, there is less presure(with which I agree BTW, but it's still significant amount, just not as much as in Italy/Spain), and then you say the only time... A little contradictory we are here shahz, aren't we ?



He has the weight of expectations. Every one thinks of him as the miracle worker and he never disappoints. He leads teams to places that no one else. (except for that teams fans) expects him to lead to.

You got some point there, but I won't agree the pressure is the same as in the top 5-6 teams in the EURO. Only ignorants would demand Russia or Korea or anyone else to do well basing on his accomplishments. Sure, he was hired because of that reason, but that doesn't mean anything when the real game starts.

ALSO... you think Jose was hired just because he won 2 portuguese titles with Porto? :) Champions Lea.... shhhhhh :>



Hiddink can do that. :P

Ok! :P Bring him on tommorow ! :>



Realistically I think Hiddink can take a team like Firoentina to the title.
I can say the same about Jose.



Really???? I wonder why Chelsea never won anything before Abrahimovic. Must be a coincidence that they are winning all this shit now.

You misunderstood me. I've said money doesn't mean a succes, I didn't say they are irrelevent. No quality - no chance. Money means only a better chance. More money you have - better chance. But a big NO - NO, that money equals success.



Fersguson has a better record than him, and so does Rijkaard.

Shahz, did you read my sentence or you just looked at it hastly?

Ferguson won 2 CL cups over 20 years!!! The first came after 10 years of coaching Man Utd.

Ferguson has a better record, because he is coaching Man Utd for 20 years for God sake. And maybe you forgot it took 5 years for him to win his first EPL title. Do you remember how many years it took for Jose to do the same ?

And Rijkaard. You got to be kiddink me here. Rijkaard won 2 league titles and CL, all with BARCELONA. Jose won 2 league titles with Chelsea, and CL title and UEFA title with PORTO.

In tearms of silverware there is no one in sane mind that would say Rijkaard achieved more. But the one thing you can say here, is exact same thing I've said about Ferguson. Rijkaard was coaching shorter at the highest club level than Jose, so all we have to do now, is just wait and see :) Jose is already coaching Inter after Chelsea spell. I wonder, where will Rijkaard end up. Also Grant for that matter :)



This isnt a very smart point. Why is managing a top club more respectable than managing a country?

It's not. IF, you coach Holland, Italy, Spain, Brasil, Argentina, for example. If you coach Korea, Australia, you mean to tell me, it's the same as coaching Barcelona, Real, Inter, Milan, Man Utd and such ?



Just because clubs can make you your fan, and have started making more money, doesnt mean its the real think.
Hiddink likes a challenge, rather than being handed things on a golden platter like at Chelsea or Inter. Hiddink takes on a challenge, like the one at S.Korea, Australia, PSV and now Russia.
He is being paid by these clubs a very good amount. Why should he go back to European club football?

Hmmmm. He likes chalange... ? I don't know, does he? How can you be sure of this?

Maybe he does like it, or maybe he doesn't. I can say the Monza C2 coach also likes the chalange because he coaches Serie C2 side according to your logic :)

Korea fine, Australia fine, but 3 NT that aren't that prestiguos ? It makes me wonder.

Everybody likes the chalange, but nobody likes to loose, and I didn't hear Hiddink turned down Real Madrid, Barcelona or Chelsea along the way. I don't think it is him who is rejecting the opportunity. I think it is the fact, that opportunity didn't come along. At least, that's what is most logical and probable.



Anyways, I think we are just repeating points after points. You stick to your evaluation of Jose, and I will stick to my evaluation of Hiddink.
I see you aren't that happy with Jose shahz. I thought you were pretty much satisfied with him hired as inter coach. What happened ?

NimAraya
24 Jun 08, 09:17
Luka, for sure Josie will be so proud of you for supporting him like this because of just doing one press conference here! I donno if you will be the same when he's struggling here...

One of the main reasons that I support AC Milan or even Juventus in CL is because they stop freaks and heels to win the title to avoid fucking coming compliments about them. I still donno how the hell AC Milan could lose like that to Deportivo to let these freak teams like Porto and Monaco come to the final, so winning that trophy become the biggest thing for Josie fans to kiss his ass!! I donno if Mancini's Inter had the same luck as Porto to get a free kick in 90 minute and score a goal and then we talk about Mancini as a Special here!

Luka
24 Jun 08, 21:46
I don't know how this can be better explained. You all have plain numbers in front of you, and you still act like you don't see it.

You say Jose was lucky in CL? I won't dissagree. You have to be lucky to win a major trophy in a knockout tournament. Either it is CL, or Uefa Cup, or WC, or EURO. What differs the great coaches from one season lucky ones, is the consistency of doing very well in this tournament for a long time, despite not winning it.

Mancini guided Inter for 4 years. In first we got to the quarters and went out against Milan due to the remembered match.

The next year we got Villareal in quarters, that was suppose to be a "piece of cake" to us. Unfortunetly it wasn't. We failed miserably, and played like a dead meat in the return leg, the leg we were suppose to win. Bad luck?

The following year we got Valencia in 1/8. A better team, but still a team that was judged as a side, that Inter can and should beat. The first leg promising, as all the legs at home. And the away game came. We were all full of hope after the first leg, and we felt we had a good shot at it. And what ? And we failed. AGAIN. In BAD Style. Bad luck again? Hm....

And this year. We got the best of those opponents Liverpool. The away game, and we don't exist for first 30 minutes. Literaly. Mancini was saying that we were suppose to just hold off the first wave of Liverpool attacks, as we were "not at home". Well I don't know, but 30 minutes is pretty long time. Anyways we failed again. So... what are the coments of his deffenders? Bad luck again.

I can understand bad luck once, or twice, but those away games were constantly like that, and Inter is too big club to be waiting until we will start to fuckin play the ball outside of home.

Now lets see, what Jose did in Chelsea over 3 years, where he also failed like Mancini. He wasn't eliminated by Villareal or Valencia no.

Once he was eliminated in the semis, where along the way he beaten the widly regarded as one of the main favourites Barcelona, and Bayern, also very strong team. He lost in SEMI final to Liverpool, to the goal that never happened.

The second year he was eliminated in the 1/8th by the eventual winners Barcelona.

The third year he reached SEMIs again, after a win with our "nemesis" Valencia. They have drawn their first home game 1-1, and like us, had to win away from home. But unlike us, scared chicken they fought, despite Morientes scoring in the first half to put Valencia in very good position. Chelsea eventually lost to the Liverpool by PENS, giving Pool incredible hard fight for progress.

Now. If nobody can see the difference here, than I don't think I should waste my time talking to a person like that, because that's just acting dumb to me. I don't know how many times I can go through with it, and nobody actually responding to that, but instead, saying the same things over and over again.

And I was here only comparing the so called "failed" campaigns with Chelsea and Inter. I didn't mention Joses tour with Porto, and also the fact that Joses Porto has beaten Lazio of Mancini in UEFA, big time, by a smooth 4-1 result at home.

shahz_nerazzurri
24 Jun 08, 21:55
At some point, we are just repeating the same shit over and over again. I am done with this discussion.

All I hope, is that Hiddink is available next year, when we fire Jose.

Stefan
24 Jun 08, 22:10
At some point, we are just repeating the same shit over and over again. I am done with this discussion.

All I hope, is that Hiddink is available next year, when we fire Jose.

We shall see. Time will be the judge. Till then we agree to disagree on this issue.

NimAraya
25 Jun 08, 04:26
Luka, We can go on this debate but it gets complicated. Villareal wasn't that "Piece of Cake" that year as they could simply reach final if Riquelme didn't miss that penalty in 90 minute! You see? Events and moments are more than crucial in football. We played first match against Liverpool with 10 players for almost 70 minutes and conceded 2 stupid goals in the last 10 minutes. Against AC Milan everybody saw what happened during two matches. We attack, they get freekicks and score! Against Valencia we attack, Valencia got one free-kick and one corner and scores! I'm not defending what you might think, all I want to say is IF episodes could happen better for Mancini he was more successful than this.

You see, when you concede a goal in minute 1' it's not coach's fault! You still rate Moroniho after his time with porto because he reached semi-finals with CHelsea but Mancini reached quarter-finals with Inter!!!

Luka
25 Jun 08, 06:26
1. I already said I know luck plays major part in winning either Cup.

2. Deffending Mancini comes down to saying he was unlucky for 4 YEARS straight. He didn't have even one good CL campaign with us.

3. Every time we were eliminated from CL, we were furious, not because we were eliminated, but HOW we were eliminated.

4. I already said maybe not here, but in other threads, that we are playing well in big games AT HOME. What's the problem are away games. We didn't have a good important away game under Mancini since he became a coach of Inter.

Jose also lost to Pool in pens or by a goal that didn't happnen. Isn't that unlucky also? But compare their exit(By PENS, or by never existing goal) to our exits, where we were after the game I don't want to say a laughstock, but close.

You can't deffend Mancini forever. 4 years of straight defeats in CL, that all look the same, wasn't enough for you ?

NimAraya
25 Jun 08, 20:56
Jose also lost to Pool in pens or by a goal that didn't happnen. Isn't that unlucky also? But compare their exit(By PENS, or by never existing goal) to our exits, where we were after the game I don't want to say a laughstock, but close.

That's another dirty game by him. You know if refree didn't allow that goal then what should he had to do?! A penalty and a red card for the one that committed the foul. That's more bad luck you know!

Luka
25 Jun 08, 21:11
You got a point there. Still the goal wasn't there, and he did reach the Semis.

NimAraya
26 Jun 08, 01:15
Yeah then the penalty has been scored and Chelski had to play the rest of the match with 10 players and expect even worse result!

Luka
26 Jun 08, 06:23
Well you never know. There were couple examples in history where the team playing most of the game with 10 people advanced through eventually. Like Italy vs Holland in 2000.

But first... isn't that only yellow, when the GK fouls a player IN A PENALTY area, and not red ?? The red is true, but only outside penalty area right ?

Like here:

rMzbWZM9lNg

And secondy, there could be easily a free-kick for high foot of Baros. I would even say, If there should be a free-kick of any sort(like penalty too), it should be a free-kick to Chelsea for dangarous play of Baros. He was going with his foot straight into Cechs face. Just watch it here:

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