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Thread: Torneo di Viareggio 2012

  1. #41
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    Inter had 6 penalties overall in the Cup, we succesfully converted only 2

    4-1 in penalties

    Bessa and Duncan missed.

    Bessa had one more penalty in the game but didnt score, Duncan didnt score in last group game, why was he even choosen to this? He reminds me more and more of Muntari

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    i said a few weeks ago, bessa didnt impress me that much. he seems very overhyped, i dont expect him to make it.

    of our youth team now i'd say only really spendlhofer and alborno look remotely near good. Bessa is very very very wasteful and might still make it, Longo is the worst striker we've had for 4 or 5 seasons in the Primavera, no one else is remotely spectacular. To be honest, Crisetig and Romano are pretty mediocre too, Crisetig doesnt seem to have come anywhere in the last couple of seasons.

    \epic disappointment.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by browha View Post
    i said a few weeks ago, bessa didnt impress me that much. he seems very overhyped, i dont expect him to make it.

    of our youth team now i'd say only really spendlhofer and alborno look remotely near good. Bessa is very very very wasteful and might still make it, Longo is the worst striker we've had for 4 or 5 seasons in the Primavera, no one else is remotely spectacular. To be honest, Crisetig and Romano are pretty mediocre too, Crisetig doesnt seem to have come anywhere in the last couple of seasons.

    \epic disappointment.

    So because he is not good at penalties, that means he is a bad player? The dude has a hand in every goal that this team scores...

    We won this tournament last year and we are in the semifinals of the NextGen Series, I think you are being a bit dramatic.
    Quote Originally Posted by brehme1989 View Post
    This season is unfortunately a 5 season setback. We were 1.5 mercato away from becoming a top team, now won't really have expectations of winning an important trophy until 2025.

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    looks like our youth are taking some inspiration from our elders

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    Quote Originally Posted by vitomins View Post
    So because he is not good at penalties, that means he is a bad player? The dude has a hand in every goal that this team scores...

    We won this tournament last year and we are in the semifinals of the NextGen Series, I think you are being a bit dramatic.
    I watched Bessa play against Sporting, he was REALLY poor. He had no ideas, no real creativity or impact, dribbling was poor, the only time he got the ball was drifting out wide and even then he got marked out the game, passing was mediocre. Admittedly he scored an assist with the corner that M'Baye headed home, but that was it.


    I think Bessa will be like people like Issah Eliakwu. Impressive at youth level, but as soon as other players wise up and bulk up a bit, a nobody.


    My judgement of him is nothing to do with missing penalties.


    We won this tournament last year, and look at that year. Dell'Agnello didnt exactly set fire at Livorno before he did his cruciate ligaments. Alibec cant even get into a crap team, Bardi is the only one from that year I would say was genuinely doing well out on loan now. Crisetig has done nothing since first coming onto the scene, Romano has regressed so much that he doesnt even make an automatic starter for the youth team now, Galimberti has gone out on co-ownership to Parma where he's just knocked us out...

    Who else... Benedetti is doing okay at Gubbio, playing quite a few, but they're relegation threatened Serie B, Natalino has done sweet FA, Biraghi isn't playing regularly for Juve Stabia...

    Nah, man, disappointing youth team.


    I think you're underestimating how much I follow our youth...

    ---------- Post added at 17:31 ---------- Previous post was at 17:24 ----------

    also, the nextgen thing is pretty good, but we were outplayed the entire semifinal. Ball skills they were much much much better, and I think as an individual future, their players have an awful lot more potential than ours did.


    edit;

    to be honest, to make a world class team, you take the sporting youth team and give them to our coach for a few years.. he'll give them the tactics, mentality, etc, that they need... our youth team, on the other hand, I think only 2 or 3 of them will ever play at Serie A level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by browha View Post
    I watched Bessa play against Sporting, he was REALLY poor. He had no ideas, no real creativity or impact, dribbling was poor, the only time he got the ball was drifting out wide and even then he got marked out the game, passing was mediocre. Admittedly he scored an assist with the corner that M'Baye headed home, but that was it.


    I think Bessa will be like people like Issah Eliakwu. Impressive at youth level, but as soon as other players wise up and bulk up a bit, a nobody.


    My judgement of him is nothing to do with missing penalties.


    We won this tournament last year, and look at that year. Dell'Agnello didnt exactly set fire at Livorno before he did his cruciate ligaments. Alibec cant even get into a crap team, Bardi is the only one from that year I would say was genuinely doing well out on loan now. Crisetig has done nothing since first coming onto the scene, Romano has regressed so much that he doesnt even make an automatic starter for the youth team now, Galimberti has gone out on co-ownership to Parma where he's just knocked us out...

    Who else... Benedetti is doing okay at Gubbio, playing quite a few, but they're relegation threatened Serie B, Natalino has done sweet FA, Biraghi isn't playing regularly for Juve Stabia...

    Nah, man, disappointing youth team.


    I think you're underestimating how much I follow our youth...

    So you expect every player to go from our youth team to starter of a Serie B team or better in just one year? I think your expectations are way too high. This isn't Barcelona, we will only have 1-2 quality youth players every year. You shouldn't expect 10 players to go from our youth team to starting on a second division team in one year.

    I am happy Bardi and Benedetti are starters for their respective sides...
    Quote Originally Posted by brehme1989 View Post
    This season is unfortunately a 5 season setback. We were 1.5 mercato away from becoming a top team, now won't really have expectations of winning an important trophy until 2025.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vitomins View Post
    So you expect every player to go from our youth team to starter of a Serie B team or better in just one year? I think your expectations are way too high. This isn't Barcelona, we will only have 1-2 quality youth players every year. You shouldn't expect 10 players to go from our youth team to starting on a second division team in one year.

    I am happy Bardi and Benedetti are starters for their respective sides...
    I expect that when, just today, MM has spoken about how great our youth team is and how our youth project is going to be the driving force for Inters future, we should be expecting results better than this, or seeing people like Biraghi and Natalino unable to get into mediocre Serie B sides.

    These arent just random guys from the youth team, remember, these are meant to be the 'hot prospects', this is from our Viareggio winning cup, we'd already given Natalino a couple of Serie A games, Biraghi was so close to the first team fringe - either we say, okay, we got it wrong, these guys are nowhere near good enough for what we wanted, or they've fucked up in the mean time.

    Either way, bad situation.



    edit;

    My point is, for how great Moratti makes our youth team sound, they are sure fucking disappointing compared to expectations. Poor football, mediocre results, and poor big match performances from the so-called 'stars' of the youth team. For how great he makes them sound we should be doing better than the best 16 round in the Viareggio cup which includes people like Serie D representatives....

  10. #48
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    Natalino did'nt play in Verona because bureaucratic reason


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  11. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inter Siamo Noi View Post
    Natalino did'nt play in Verona because bureaucratic reason
    I know, he was ruled out until the previous window, but he left Verona and joined Crotone on loan, so I guess they didnt want him anyway.

  12. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by browha View Post
    I expect that when, just today, MM has spoken about how great our youth team is and how our youth project is going to be the driving force for Inters future, we should be expecting results better than this, or seeing people like Biraghi and Natalino unable to get into mediocre Serie B sides.

    These arent just random guys from the youth team, remember, these are meant to be the 'hot prospects', this is from our Viareggio winning cup, we'd already given Natalino a couple of Serie A games, Biraghi was so close to the first team fringe - either we say, okay, we got it wrong, these guys are nowhere near good enough for what we wanted, or they've fucked up in the mean time.

    Either way, bad situation.



    edit;

    My point is, for how great Moratti makes our youth team sound, they are sure fucking disappointing compared to expectations. Poor football, mediocre results, and poor big match performances from the so-called 'stars' of the youth team. For how great he makes them sound we should be doing better than the best 16 round in the Viareggio cup which includes people like Serie D representatives....

    Let's look at the youngsters (20 and under) from the 2007-08 Barcelona B squad that won promotion:


    Marc Valiente - Starter for Real Valladolid (Segunda)
    Sergio Busquets - Starter for Barcelona (La Liga)
    Iago Falqué - Failed at Villarreal B, Failed at Tottenham, now not being used at Southampton (Championship)
    Thiago Alcántara - Regular for Barcelona (La Liga)
    Toríbio - Haven't seen him play at all this season, no idea what happened to him
    Víctor Sánchez - Regular for Neuchâtel Xamax (Swiss Super League)
    Víctor Vázquez - Starter for Club Brugge (Juliper)
    Gai Assulin - I think he joined Man City a couple years ago, but I haven't heard anything about him recently
    Giovani Dos Santos - Barely plays for Tottenham (EPL)
    Jeffrén - Barely plays for Sporting (Primeira)
    Pedro - Regular for Barcelona (La Liga)



    And compare it to our 2006-07 Primavera squad that won the title:

    Tornaghi Paolo - 4th string goalie for Inter
    Belec Vid - Starter for Crotone (Serie B)
    Ciceri Davide - Not sure where this kid is now

    Fais Davide - Not sure where this kid is now
    Fautario Simone - Regular for Frosinone (Lega Pro 1)
    Bonucci Leonardo - Starter for Juventus (Serie A)
    Esposito Dennis - Bench player for Lecco (Lega Pro 2)
    Conrotto Giorgio - Starter for Canavese (Lega Pro 2) before the team dissolved this year
    Mei Andrea - Bench player for VVV-Venlo (Eredivisie)
    Figliomeni Giuseppe - Regular for Varese (Serie B) and now a starter for Nocerina (Serie B)
    Marconi Ivan - Starter for Savona (Lega Pro 2)

    Bolzoni Francesco - Regular for Siena (Serie A)
    Maa Boumsong Daniel - No idea where this kid is now
    Maaroufi Ibrahim - Bench player for Damash Gilan (Iran Pro)
    Puccio Gabriele - Starter for Pavia (Lega Pro 2)
    Pedrelli Daniele - Bench player for Spezia (Lega Pro 1)
    Siligardi Luca - Regular for Livorno (Serie B)
    Filkor Attila - Starter for Livorno (Serie B)

    Litteri Gianluca - Starter for Ternana (Lega Pro 1)
    Ribas Sebastian - Barely plays for Sporting (Premeira)
    Cocchiere Ignazio - No idea where this kid is now
    Biabiany Jonathan Ludovic - Starter for Parma (Serie A)
    Slavkovski Goran - Bench player for Limhamn Bunkeflo (Sweden Division 1)
    Balotelli Mario - Regular for Manchester City (EPL)



    No doubt, the better players came out of the Barcelona squad, but look how many we had from our Primavera. That Barcelona squad included 4 players that now play significant minutes in the top 2 leagues of England, Spain, Italy, or Germany. Our Primavera squad included 8 players that now contribute significant minutes in those leagues and this team didn't even include Santon.

    Barcelona has Thiago, Busquets and Pedro, but if we kept our players then we would still have Balotelli and Santon. Maybe not as string as those 3, but still very solid players that came through our system.

    We may not be producing Messi's, Xavi's or Iniesta's, but we are producing some talented players. It just seems like we get rid of some of the better ones before we properly groom them into solid players.
    Quote Originally Posted by brehme1989 View Post
    This season is unfortunately a 5 season setback. We were 1.5 mercato away from becoming a top team, now won't really have expectations of winning an important trophy until 2025.

  13. #51
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    From wikipedia, Bolzoni has played 4 games for Siena this season. I cant see any stats for Siligardi on wikipedia so no comment there either.

    However.. you're looking at a list of 10 players vs a list of like 25? Not exactly a great comparison, really!

    I cant really find any 'complete' stats on anohter youth team, but if I take United, for example, the players they had in and around the first team at th etime:

    Lee Martin - played a lot at Charlton last season, playing regularly at Ipswich
    Frazier Campbell - semi-regular at Sunderland, lots of injuries
    Darron Gibson - nuff said
    Danny Simpson - regular starter at united
    Sam Hewson - plays for some club called Fram, never heard of them
    Rodrigo Possebon - just signed for Vicenza after a season back in Brazil
    Tom Cleverly - starting to break into the united team now
    David Gray - regular starer at Preston North End (last season championship, now league one)
    Craig Cathcart - regular starter at blackpool
    Ron Zieler - regular starter at Hannover
    James Chester - regular starter at Hull
    Ben Amos - nuff said, i'm sure you know who he is
    Macheda - nuff said
    Richard Eckersley - plays at Toronto FC
    Ritchie De Laet - think you should know him too
    Corry Evans - regular starter at Hull
    Danny Drinkwater - just signed for Leicester, played 4 league matches already
    Matthew James - not really on the fringe of united team yet



    anyway, my point is. Moratti boasts about how great our youth system is. The great team from last season, who I held SO much promise for, has done sweet FA except, realistically, Bardi. Benedetti looks interesting but I hesitate to take the defensive qualities of a player in the team who has conceeded one of the most goals (i think?) in Serie B too seriously.

    The rest have realistically been complete disappointments (whether via injury for Dell'Agnello or basically being crap, Natalino/Biraghi/Carlsen/Alibec/Knasmullner/Kysela)

    If this youth project is meant to be the future of Inter, then we're absolutely fucked, and destined to Serie B at best.


    For the hype, I would expect us to be getting to the semifinals of something like the Viareggio tournament with ease. What it does evidence to me, though, is that we are no better than a decent but not spectacular youth system even within Italy (Parma), and that for having spent millions on people like Alborno, Tassi, Livaja, we're still not signing people who give any more promise than what it seems we had before anyway.



    Your statistic is also fairly selective - Biabany is a bench player (last few matches), Bolzoni doesnt play, its only really Balotelli and Bonucci I would say have truly succeeded (with Belec liable to be good) from that side, whereas in Barca, Pedro, Busquests, Alcantara are all REALLY good. Iago, you didnt mention either, signed for Juve, and joined Tottenham on loan from them, at which point he convinced them to sign him (and he's now out on loan to Southampton), Gai Assulin is still working his way through the City youth system, etc.


    My point is, for the money we're spending on our youth team, we're not seeing anything like the returns you would hope for. And those that do transpire to be good get fucking sold anyway (Destro, Bonucci).

    ---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:46 ----------

    lets try a different approach.

    Are you happy with what the youth team has delivered to the first team in the last few years, and what it looks like it will be capable of delivering in the next few years? Considering every season we spend the equivalent of Alvarez, or Motta, or Sneijder even on it?

  14. #52
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    damn even if we make good players like balotelli or santon , we will sell them and buy forlan or someone 30+ yrs old

    thats how we roll

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    forget even inter, manu or barcelona, look at man city's recent youth products,

    daniel sturridge -starter for chelsea
    vladimir weiss-starter for espanyol
    dedryck boyata-in and out of bolton team
    John guidetti- starter for feyenoord
    Greg cunningham-starter for nottingham forest
    michael jhonson-starter for licestershire city
    stephen ireland-regular for aston villa

    I cant remember more names, but recent years, they have developed, onouha,richards, and even hart who has been at city since he was 18 something

    Its not only inter, but italian teams youth policy as a whole needs to be looked at

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    Inter invests only 5m euro every year for the youth sector, Barca for example invests 25-30m every year, and I guess that now (might even before) City invests also a lot more than Inter.

    When we sold Balotelli, we financed our youth sector for 6 years. I agree that we might have to invest more, and have to chance the policy of the youth sector (try to have more players from there at the first team) but that's other thing.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Inter Siamo Noi View Post
    Inter invests only 5m euro every year for the youth sector, Barca for example invests 25-30m every year, and I guess that now (might even before) City invests also a lot more than Inter.

    When we sold Balotelli, we financed our youth sector for 6 years. I agree that we might have to invest more, and have to chance the policy of the youth sector (try to have more players from there at the first team) but that's other thing.
    Baggio recently stated that Inter invest 13 million a year, whilst Barca and Real go up to 55m.

  18. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by browha View Post
    From wikipedia, Bolzoni has played 4 games for Siena this season. I cant see any stats for Siligardi on wikipedia so no comment there either.

    However.. you're looking at a list of 10 players vs a list of like 25? Not exactly a great comparison, really!

    I cant really find any 'complete' stats on anohter youth team, but if I take United, for example, the players they had in and around the first team at th etime:

    Lee Martin - played a lot at Charlton last season, playing regularly at Ipswich
    Frazier Campbell - semi-regular at Sunderland, lots of injuries
    Darron Gibson - nuff said
    Danny Simpson - regular starter at united
    Sam Hewson - plays for some club called Fram, never heard of them
    Rodrigo Possebon - just signed for Vicenza after a season back in Brazil
    Tom Cleverly - starting to break into the united team now
    David Gray - regular starer at Preston North End (last season championship, now league one)
    Craig Cathcart - regular starter at blackpool
    Ron Zieler - regular starter at Hannover
    James Chester - regular starter at Hull
    Ben Amos - nuff said, i'm sure you know who he is
    Macheda - nuff said
    Richard Eckersley - plays at Toronto FC
    Ritchie De Laet - think you should know him too
    Corry Evans - regular starter at Hull
    Danny Drinkwater - just signed for Leicester, played 4 league matches already
    Matthew James - not really on the fringe of united team yet



    anyway, my point is. Moratti boasts about how great our youth system is. The great team from last season, who I held SO much promise for, has done sweet FA except, realistically, Bardi. Benedetti looks interesting but I hesitate to take the defensive qualities of a player in the team who has conceeded one of the most goals (i think?) in Serie B too seriously.

    The rest have realistically been complete disappointments (whether via injury for Dell'Agnello or basically being crap, Natalino/Biraghi/Carlsen/Alibec/Knasmullner/Kysela)

    If this youth project is meant to be the future of Inter, then we're absolutely fucked, and destined to Serie B at best.


    For the hype, I would expect us to be getting to the semifinals of something like the Viareggio tournament with ease. What it does evidence to me, though, is that we are no better than a decent but not spectacular youth system even within Italy (Parma), and that for having spent millions on people like Alborno, Tassi, Livaja, we're still not signing people who give any more promise than what it seems we had before anyway.



    Your statistic is also fairly selective - Biabany is a bench player (last few matches), Bolzoni doesnt play, its only really Balotelli and Bonucci I would say have truly succeeded (with Belec liable to be good) from that side, whereas in Barca, Pedro, Busquests, Alcantara are all REALLY good. Iago, you didnt mention either, signed for Juve, and joined Tottenham on loan from them, at which point he convinced them to sign him (and he's now out on loan to Southampton), Gai Assulin is still working his way through the City youth system, etc.


    My point is, for the money we're spending on our youth team, we're not seeing anything like the returns you would hope for. And those that do transpire to be good get fucking sold anyway (Destro, Bonucci).

    ---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:46 ----------

    lets try a different approach.

    Are you happy with what the youth team has delivered to the first team in the last few years, and what it looks like it will be capable of delivering in the next few years? Considering every season we spend the equivalent of Alvarez, or Motta, or Sneijder even on it?

    Definitely do not use Wikipedia for appearance statistics.

    Bolzoni has played in 11 Serie A matches for Siena, starting 5 and 4 Coppa Italia matches starting 2. He also injured his groin at the end of January and has been out for the last 2 weeks. he has 1 goal and plays CM in a 4-4-2.

    Siligardi has also played in 11 Serie B matches, starting 5 and has played every single match since Madonna took over at the end of December. Has 1 goal and 1 assist playing as their RM in a 4-4-2.

    Alborno, Tassi, Livaja are extremely young still.



    Macheda - nuff said? Nuff said about what? He did absolutely nothing at Sampdoria last season and now he can;t get minutes for QPR.

    Gibson is 24 years old, Amos is a backup...he is similar to Bardi, De Laet is 23 and didn't play much for Norwich before getting injured. The problem is the same as everything with our supporters. You guys sensationalize everything. If it is another club does something mediocre, it becomes sensational...but if Inter does the same exact thing, it is utter shit.

    Perfectly summed up with your Macheda comment. You think he is so special, but if he came from Inter you would complain about how awful he was a Sampdoria. Biabiany scored the same amoutn of goals as him while they were both at Samp...
    Last edited by vitomins; 15 Feb 12 at 11:51.
    Quote Originally Posted by brehme1989 View Post
    This season is unfortunately a 5 season setback. We were 1.5 mercato away from becoming a top team, now won't really have expectations of winning an important trophy until 2025.

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    Er, thats extremely presumtious of you.

    I never claimed Macheda was good or bad. I just commented that I'm sure you know who he is, and I dont need to provide any additional comment.


    If you would kindly answer the last question (After the edit) in my post, then I think your opinion will be immediately cleared up.

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    Its a Youth tournament I just care they play well nothing more, if they win its gravy.

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    moratti cannot make the FFP excuse for spending low on the youth team, FFP calculations exclude the expenditure on youth teams and facilities from their calculation, compared to italy, our expenditure may be high but in comparison to chelsea,real,city,barca,united,arsenal our spending is very low, all of them spend more than 35 million on their youth systems compared to our shitty 10-15 million,

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