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Thread: Salary vs Bonus

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    Salary vs Bonus

    The money situation in football is outrageous. You can have people like Muntari or Mancini who make 100+k a week without once playing a competitive game for the club.

    Couple with this, 50% financial taxation on salaries, and you very quickly end up paying an awful lot of money to people who don't do anything. Footballers shouldn't earn very much for doing nothing. If they turn up to training every day of the week, that should be max like 100k a year... image rights of course will always be separate to that, so a top footballer even if he doesnt play (injury or whatever) could still make a few million a year. the rest should be bonuses based on that. like 50k for man of the match, 20k for a goal, bla bla bla

    As an example, Milito would have earned 600k for goals in the treble year, probably like another 750k for man of the matches, and then you'd also give bonuses for team wins, performance in competitions (e.g. winning the CL probably give another million bonus, 750k for the Serie A, 250k for Coppa Italia...)

    for the treble season, lets say on a base salary of 100k, that's already 3.5million, before you argue about bonuses for assists, winning games, and other shit.

    if you gave everyone a bonus of like 30k for winning a game, then that would have been like another 35-40*30k in the treble year? so another 1.2 million...

    call it 5 million all round, thats more than he made just on his regular wages. Probably less if you add in the CL money, but I never claimed this was already set up well



    Under this system, people like Sneijder or Maicon would never have had their performance levels drop.
    you'd also NEVER see some cunt like Muntari or Mancini sat on the bench again just waiting their contracts out... for 100k a year I can guarantee you they'd fucking change club so quick you wouldnt even have time to start a rumour thread about it

    I dont know about Italy, but the taxation system is typically very different for bonuses than salary.

    In the UK, it's a 20% bonus tax (i believe) - so if all our players were paid in the forms of bonuses, rather than salary...

    lets say 100million a year on their wages (to the players), that means we pay 100/0.8 = 125million a year total (25mil to tax). That's instead of 200 million a year, where 50% goes to tax.


    If we changed to this scheme we wouldnt even have to get rid of any of our fucking players, you could sign anyone you wanted.... that 80 million difference there is roughly what we lost last year...




    In this system, top GOOD footballers would earn MORE money than they did previously, the clubs would save a LOT OF MONEY in taxation, and there would be people being less bitter over footballers doing nothing for £5 million a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by browha View Post
    The money situation in football is outrageous. You can have people like Muntari or Mancini who make 100+k a week without once playing a competitive game for the club.

    Couple with this, 50% financial taxation on salaries, and you very quickly end up paying an awful lot of money to people who don't do anything. Footballers shouldn't earn very much for doing nothing. If they turn up to training every day of the week, that should be max like 100k a year... image rights of course will always be separate to that, so a top footballer even if he doesnt play (injury or whatever) could still make a few million a year. the rest should be bonuses based on that. like 50k for man of the match, 20k for a goal, bla bla bla

    As an example, Milito would have earned 600k for goals in the treble year, probably like another 750k for man of the matches, and then you'd also give bonuses for team wins, performance in competitions (e.g. winning the CL probably give another million bonus, 750k for the Serie A, 250k for Coppa Italia...)

    for the treble season, lets say on a base salary of 100k, that's already 3.5million, before you argue about bonuses for assists, winning games, and other shit.

    if you gave everyone a bonus of like 30k for winning a game, then that would have been like another 35-40*30k in the treble year? so another 1.2 million...

    call it 5 million all round, thats more than he made just on his regular wages. Probably less if you add in the CL money, but I never claimed this was already set up well



    Under this system, people like Sneijder or Maicon would never have had their performance levels drop.
    you'd also NEVER see some cunt like Muntari or Mancini sat on the bench again just waiting their contracts out... for 100k a year I can guarantee you they'd fucking change club so quick you wouldnt even have time to start a rumour thread about it

    I dont know about Italy, but the taxation system is typically very different for bonuses than salary.

    In the UK, it's a 20% bonus tax (i believe) - so if all our players were paid in the forms of bonuses, rather than salary...

    lets say 100million a year on their wages (to the players), that means we pay 100/0.8 = 125million a year total (25mil to tax). That's instead of 200 million a year, where 50% goes to tax.


    If we changed to this scheme we wouldnt even have to get rid of any of our fucking players, you could sign anyone you wanted.... that 80 million difference there is roughly what we lost last year...




    In this system, top GOOD footballers would earn MORE money than they did previously, the clubs would save a LOT OF MONEY in taxation, and there would be people being less bitter over footballers doing nothing for £5 million a year.
    I love the idea but what about players who don't score or give assist and only contribute defensively. They would be discouraged in this system. Also in this system I feel it would force competition between players on the same team to score goals as the person scoring the most goals and the most assist get the most money. Having someone like Milito would be awful because he wouldn't pass the ball he would try to score every opportunity instead of passing the ball to an open teammate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostnik11 View Post
    I love the idea but what about players who don't score or give assist and only contribute defensively. They would be discouraged in this system. Also in this system I feel it would force competition between players on the same team to score goals as the person scoring the most goals and the most assist get the most money. Having someone like Milito would be awful because he wouldn't pass the ball he would try to score every opportunity instead of passing the ball to an open teammate.

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    Bonuses for clean sheets, distance run, tackles made...
    You could even make the assist bonus the same as the goal bonus, and of course the idea is that the match winning bonus will be more than any player can make (except, say, scoring 4 or 5 goals) so theres strong TEAM based incentive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by browha View Post
    Bonuses for clean sheets, distance run, tackles made...
    You could even make the assist bonus the same as the goal bonus, and of course the idea is that the match winning bonus will be more than any player can make (except, say, scoring 4 or 5 goals) so theres strong TEAM based incentive.
    Is their anyway that this can be included as a suggestion to football clubs. I think management would love this approach maybe not so much the players. Due to the fact that you have players who won't get paid a lot because they are on the bench.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostnik11 View Post
    Is their anyway that this can be included as a suggestion to football clubs. I think management would love this approach maybe not so much the players. Due to the fact that you have players who won't get paid a lot because they are on the bench.

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    You would have to have it implemented on a regulation level by FIFA or UEFA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by browha View Post
    You would have to have it implemented on a regulation level by FIFA or UEFA.
    So fans of football can write/email the regulation bodies of fifa or UEFA and suggest to them such an idea.

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    it'll never get implemented, sadly.


    but it would address all the issues

    financial deficiets in football are mainly driven by salaries. if you're running a club at like 120% salary-to-turnover, this would cut that down to like 80%...



    well, anyway, there you go.

    its a good idea, itll never be put in though.

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    Exactly. It's a great idea and it would benefit all parties. I think an incentive based system would increase the performance of the team greatly. Especially if the bonuses are primarily team-oriented instead of just individual based.

    But as you say, it will never get implemented.

    In order for it to work it would have to be incorporated at every top club. And the current system is rooted very deeply. Players like the fact that they can get a big weekly/monthly salary and not necessarily have to do much for it.

    I don't see how that could be changed at present. Also since player power has grown so much in recent years. There just aren't enough objections to the current system.

    It works for the people with the most power.. The oil sheiks with all the cash who want their club to become big, and the players who get massive salaries because of those types of projects. Like City, PSG.

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    Agreed.

    I dream of the day where UEFA has the moral ability & the dignity to stand up and implement something like this. Every professional player in a top league earns 100k a year, and the bonuses are negotiated SEPARATELY on a club/player basis (as a current contract).

    A player who does well - Milito the example above - could make millions a year, whilst saving money for the club (in taxation). It would just be nice to have a system where 95% of the player's income comes from performance-based incentives, rather than a base salary.

    No one should make 5 million a season for fucking TURNING UP TO TRAINING.

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    Problem with this system is very obvious, we will see 10 Zarates in the single team, everyone will try to score a goal rather than look for a pass and it won't give enough credit for players like Modric or Silva whose passes lead to assists.

    Also I'm not sure who and how anyone can judge X is the man of the match if there are 2 or 3 players playing well as it is the game of opinions, everyone might not agree with the MOTM choice.

    And like you said defenders will get cleansheet bonus (that anyways they will get as part of their contract), lets assume one CB is having game of his life and covering every mistake of other CB, while a winger is having awesome game and creating hell lot of chances, only for Striker to miss every chance. After the end of the game winger won't get the bonus he deserves whereas the other CB gets the undeserved bonus.

    Nice thought but I don't see it working.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cal View Post
    I think the point is theres a fine line between comming across as a learned individual and comming across as a bit of a wanker, and utilising every corner of your vocabulary on a global internet football forum with people many of whom don't have don't have english as their first language makes you come across as the latter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by monster09 View Post
    Problem with this system is very obvious, we will see 10 Zarates in the single team, everyone will try to score a goal rather than look for a pass and it won't give enough credit for players like Modric or Silva whose passes lead to assists.

    Also I'm not sure who and how anyone can judge X is the man of the match if there are 2 or 3 players playing well as it is the game of opinions, everyone might not agree with the MOTM choice.

    And like you said defenders will get cleansheet bonus (that anyways they will get as part of their contract), lets assume one CB is having game of his life and covering every mistake of other CB, while a winger is having awesome game and creating hell lot of chances, only for Striker to miss every chance. After the end of the game winger won't get the bonus he deserves whereas the other CB gets the undeserved bonus.

    Nice thought but I don't see it working.
    Like I said, its not a complete system already, but...

    You could set up payment through, say, you are paid for distance covered as well... Key blocks from the centre backs, and/or tackles... You could easily pay for passes that create chances..

    And what you could do is set up an independent panel that watched each game (paid for by the club, but not club employees as such)..

    And of course the win bonus is going to be more than the 'reasonable' contribution from people.

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    I see where you are coming from, but the game will be all about stats imo. I think there will be unrest in the camp if the payments is based on stats.

    Also if I'm not wrong (going by FM) players do get goal bonus, clean sheet bonus isn't it?

    Also I disagree with distance covered part as well, there are few players who run like a lunatic without any tactical knowledge and there are few who make very intelligent runs on and off the ball, so football is too complicated to use this system IMO.

    p.s: Your other articles are good, especially the how to train young players one. I have read it, will comment later
    Quote Originally Posted by Cal View Post
    I think the point is theres a fine line between comming across as a learned individual and comming across as a bit of a wanker, and utilising every corner of your vocabulary on a global internet football forum with people many of whom don't have don't have english as their first language makes you come across as the latter.

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    Like I said, I never claimed this was a working system, but they managed to pull some kind of FFP into shape, I'm sure they could do this if they wanted

    I agree, its not completely clean cut.


    Anyway


    I think FM lies a bit on how prolific those are. Appearance fees are standard already (from what I've read), but if you look at Zarate, for example, his assist bonus kicked in at 15 assists, and even then it was only a few hundred k. Clean sheet bonus we've definitely put in Handanovic's contract - I don't believe (as such) we had one in Cesar's contract.

    Again, i'm not sure, but we have made a big deal about it being in both Handa's contract and Zarate's one. Never heard any news of it being in anyone else's


    Thanks for the feedback. Keep up the commenting Ta

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    As an employer, bonuses >>> salary
    As an employee, bonuses <<< salary

    It's probably a good idea for football clubs but because the other clubs will give you the security of a higher basic salary, this system is unlikely to work.

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    like i said, i dont think itll ever happen, but its how it SHOULD be imho

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    Yeah, and that's too bad.

    Heck, outside of football, that's how things should be at work. Obviously the bonus parameters are even harder to set but I have always believed that basic salary should be as low as possible.

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