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Thread: South American Leagues

  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by brehme1989 View Post
    Neither European derby is local and neither has the kind of history and hostility that the Buenos Aires Superclasico has.
    But surely that history and hostility is due to the popularity of these two teams? I can't imagine that this would be one of the biggest rivalries in the world if one or both clubs had no significant following. You're right that objectivity is not the same thing as popularity. But the word "excitement" inherently implies some kind of popularity aspect. It isn't everything, but difficult to say it's insignificant.

    I think it's difficult to argue that quality of the game has no relevance to excitement. (I know you said that quality is part of what determines a top team, but you clearly don't think much of it). The European club game is of a higher quality than the South American one, objectively. And if we take into account quality, then I don't think it's such an obvious conclusion that Boca-River is objectively the most exciting fixture in years.

    (also, going by all the criteria you use, why isn't the Real-Atletico final a contender?)

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  3. #402
    brehme1989's Avatar
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    By quality I do not mean the present only. I meant in a historical context.

    Aston Villa was a relevant club historically, but their quality has not followed suit. Sometimes good, sometimes shit, as Gattuso stated it. But they're ancient and been around forever so they're like a top 5 team in English top flight football, ahead of Man City, Chelsea and Tottenham.

    Same applies to a team like Roma or better, Lazio.

    I don't get how people can get confused with what the present looks like when we're looking at the historical context here.

    Also, excitement is also about the history part. This is history, we're witnessing it. As I said before, people tend to suck at understanding that.

    Whether you like it or not, most games are forgettable in terms of history. Most semi finals stop existing after a while. It's only those who lived them that remember them or the fans of these teams that heard stories or just read about them, or some random documentary about past finals.

    Recently someone even asked who the fuck Red Star is. A team that won a Champions League in 1991. People also don't know Steaua, another winner in 1986. People definitely do not know who Real Madrid beat in the first five editions of the European Cup. They just know that they beat everyone. Personally I remember Stade Reims(x2), Milan, Fiorentina and Frankfurt being the finalists but cannot really remember which was when. I may get lucky sometimes and find the order, but it's not something I trust myself to know.

    Just like no one probably remebers Gladbach being possibly the strongest team in Europe in the mid-late 70s because they barely have any trophies to show for. Or that Leeds was the strongrst team in England before Liverpool showed up, because they barely have two league titles from then. If you read about it, you'll learn it, but it's not a type of info that the casual fan gets. Or how in 1970 there were four teams in England that were on par in terms of leagues won (Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd, Everton) and then Liverpool dusted them all, while Everton is barely relevant anymore.

    Now we're discussing the excitement of the River-Boca CL final. Year is 2018 and everyone 100 years from now, if football is still relevant, will know that date. Everytime someone mentions the Superclasico or the Libertadores, this will be part of it. This is the excitement part. We're witnessing it.

    Whether you like the games or not is irrelevant. Whether Boca or River wins is relevant only to their respective fans. Whether you like or it or not, this is the biggest game of our lifetimes thus far.

    P.S. Real vs Atletico is a decent derby, but the rivalry is just not there. Atletico is a top Spanish club, but it doesn't have the same stature and it's not even Real Madrid's main rival. Other than Atletico's struggle to overcome Real, there's not much else there. I personally like it.

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