Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 41

Thread: What use is youth if we are just going to sell them all?

  1. #1
    .h.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    08 Jun 05
    Posts
    19,421
    Thanked
    19,155 times
    Old name
    browha

    Europe

    25 Forum Supporter 10 years of FIF

    What use is youth if we are just going to sell them all?

    Repost from here click here

    I’m very distraught by rumours of the sales of Duncan and Benassi at the moment. I could accept, individually, their sales, if they were intended to construct a clear plan for other youth players – i.e. having ‘too many’ good young midfielders, and trying to ensure you cherry pick the best and monetise the rest.


    But is that really what’s happening here? I wouldn’t necessarily say our primavera is currently blessed with too much talent in the midfield department – people like Mira or Tassi are very far behind Benassi and Duncan in terms of development. So what does the sale of Alfred Duncan, for only 3 million euros, serve? Rumours of an 8 million euro bid from Sunderland last season were rejected with joy, in hopes that Duncan would develop into a top player. A somewhat poor season at Livorno has now potentially decreased his value – but that makes his sale even more stupid.

    Considering the level of faith this club has repeatedly shown players who did not deliver – i.e. recently players like Chivu, Milito, etc – it puzzles me that we take the opposite approach at the Primavera/youth level.

    Surely our reasons for believing in Duncan last season are still there? He might not be as highly rated as last year, but does one bad season aged 20/21 justify writing him off already? Especially when remembering the storm he took Serie B by last season?

    Back to my original point, too. I don’t see any coherent thinking behind this. I understand that Crisetig is getting to be quite highly rated, but his circumstances were exactly like Duncan’s last year… What if he has a bad season next year in Serie A? We will look to sell him too?

    Benassi is even more perplexing if we remember the context that it happened in. We paid the co-ownership, which will now evolve into a loan+right of redemption, for a player who we could have signed on Bosman in 6 months anyway, a player who played a total of 672 minutes, and his only real first team exposure was enforced through injury. I’m not saying by any stretch that D’Ambrosio was a bad signing, but rather, why we paid so much for a player we could sign on Bosman, only to use him as a back up is beyond me.

    The current structure and long term planning at Inter really worries me. Midfield is one of the most critical – and always has been – deficits for us at youth level. Now we finally look like we have 3 good young midfielders, each unique and not comparable to another, we look to offload two of them?

    It just doesn’t make sense. But such is the truth of youth at Inter, we’ve always struggled to have any form of coherency here. It’s not necessarily the sale that I entirely mind – though I do object to the sale of any of the 3 aforementioned players, all 3 of whom have been linked with permanent moves away, though at least Crisetig’s seems to have gone away for time being. It is the lack of coherence that I am most disappointed in. If we didn’t believe in Duncan, we should have offloaded him last year for 8 million euros. If we don’t believe in Benassi, then why did we spend 1.6 million euros on half of him last January only to bench him for the next 2 months (another youth move which will perplex me until the day I die)?

    Then again, perhaps the only thing shocking here is my surprise. We are, after all, the club that offloaded Donati and Caldirola so cheaply last year, who have had such a stellar rise in the German league this season. Youth at Inter has always been perplexing, perhaps it is just my naivety in hoping that things would change, just days after our Chairman came out and commented on the loss of youth players, that is unexpected.


  2. #2
    Shaun's Avatar
    Join Date
    04 Mar 04
    Posts
    13,957
    Thanked
    17,839 times
    Fav. Player
    Kovacic

    Macau

    57 Forum Supporter 10 years of FIF Best Overall Poster
    One could also ask - what use is youth if WM is coaching us?

    The answer to both is that it basically renders the youth system useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by DM_ View Post
    Then we'll just buy the federation and create our own rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimpin View Post
    I dont think juventus are willing to sell


  3. #3
    .h.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    08 Jun 05
    Posts
    19,421
    Thanked
    19,155 times
    Old name
    browha

    Europe

    25 Forum Supporter 10 years of FIF
    That's also an excellent point (which in fairness I did partially point out in my badly written post in WM's thread). The serious discontinuity between the direction of the management and the coach has really worried me. Had hoped things would change under Thohir...

    Maybe he just doesn't want to rock the boat for now, hence the delay in renewing Mazzarri, and to slowly phase this in, but of course that isn't going to work if his aim is to be in the CL final (lol) in 2016. I doubt we'll even be in the CL in 2016.

  4. Thanks (1): Fitzy

  5. #4
    Cal's Avatar
    Join Date
    15 May 11
    Posts
    4,751
    Thanked
    4,115 times
    Fav. Player
    Y. Nagatomo

    Tenerife

    77
    Ive come to just accept that if they aren't Balotelli quality, they won't play for Inter, saddly


  6. #5
    ScottishInterista's Avatar
    Join Date
    14 May 13
    Posts
    8,081
    Thanked
    7,835 times
    Fav. Player
    Skrinrar

    Scotland

    31 Forum Supporter Most Improved Member
    I have come to accept that if they aint over 28 or Berhami, they aint gonna play for us
    Strachan can suck my tiny schlong

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass box View Post
    One day FIF should organize and we should go all together to watch a game. At least 50 people. Tickets are on me.


  7. #6
    Inter7's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Jun 11
    Posts
    4,222
    Thanked
    1,865 times
    Fav. Player
    Kova Magic

    United States

    64
    honestly if we are going to offload them at this time it is fine since we seem to be, as afore mentioned, sticking with WM but for the love of god put a buy back clause.....

  8. #7
    Armes's Avatar
    Join Date
    13 Apr 11
    Posts
    4,041
    Thanked
    4,477 times
    Fav. Player
    Ronaldo L.N.D.L

    Albania

    67
    Jokes and puns aside, that approach it's a bit pessimistic, with underlines of wishful thinking, or having "youth" for the sake of keeping them, not youth to be developed. As much as I'd like to contribute my own wishful thoughts, we're not particularly known for our youth, so unless the recruitment gets an upgrade so to speak, what use is youth if most of them are shit?

  9. Thanks (1): Ronaldo

  10. #8
    .h.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    08 Jun 05
    Posts
    19,421
    Thanked
    19,155 times
    Old name
    browha

    Europe

    25 Forum Supporter 10 years of FIF
    You think quality is our issue?

    We have 4 Italy internationals in the last few years from our youth team (Bonucci Santon Destro Balotelli). Only two of them played any real number of matches for Inter. We have players in the Champions League (Donati), or other top level leagues (Caldirola).

    Thats just from the last few years, and we would expect more to make it in the next few years too.

    Recruitment isnt the issue. We have the highest number (generally speaking) of players at most of the Italy U-21 levels of any club.


  11. #9
    thatdude's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Feb 10
    Posts
    12,204
    Thanked
    13,021 times

    United States

    Best Football Poster Nicest Poster
    When you look at that U21 team that lost to Spain you see Immobile, Insigne, Veratti all now in the Italian national team. To think we had the highest amount of players and still couldn't get one into one of the worst Inter teams of the last two decades is really damning. It's not the talent, it's us. If we picked the one with the highest upside and gave him chances we might even have a player in the Azzurri.


  12. #10
    Fapuccino's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Apr 12
    Posts
    12,076
    Thanked
    9,268 times
    Fav. Player
    Schelotto

    Brazil

    Can someone tell me if this idea is bullshit?

    When players are young, you get a machine that measures nervousness (heart beat, cortisol production in brain, etc...). Then you bring in a celebrity or a very famous person in the room.

    The players that record the lowest level of nervousness, will be the ones to grow up with the best "big" game mentality and be unphased by the pressure of pro football.

    (A problem is that diff celebrities/players might have different meaning to diff people, so that has to be taken into consideration)
    Team #Dare2Mazzari #Messi4Inter #Messi4AsadoClan

  13. Thanks (2): Guney, Redbullsnation

  14. #11
    thatdude's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Feb 10
    Posts
    12,204
    Thanked
    13,021 times

    United States

    Best Football Poster Nicest Poster
    Quote Originally Posted by Fapuccino View Post
    Can someone tell me if this idea is bullshit?

    When players are young, you get a machine that measures nervousness (heart beat, cortisol production in brain, etc...). Then you bring in a celebrity or a very famous person in the room.

    The players that record the lowest level of nervousness, will be the ones to grow up with the best "big" game mentality and be unphased by the pressure of pro football.

    (A problem is that diff celebrities/players might have different meaning to diff people, so that has to be taken into consideration)
    I think that it's not a bad idea in theory. The problem is that no two people are the same. Some people feed off energy and rise to an occasion through adrenaline, some have ice in their veins and are unfazed. Both can be effective in high pressure situations so the only thing that would really work is a serious of tests that induce stress with a set task that needs to be completed. The scores on the tests could than be calculated and weighted to come up with some overall "stress number" probably on a scale of 0-100.

  15. #12

    Join Date
    20 Mar 13
    Posts
    58
    Thanked
    68 times

    Denmark

    Thanks for an insightful piece of writing, browha (including the Serie B loanee article).

    I’m interested your view on the youth development structure of not only Inter but Italy as a whole. In my opinion, Italian football suffers greatly for the constant loaning and co-ownership of young players.

    The reasoning behind the co-ownership system is based on two general assumptions. Firstly, young players benefit from playing time. Secondly, simply loaning players is inferior to co-ownership, as the latter allows the smaller club a direct incentive to furthering the development of the player in question. While both these assumptions are valid and have provided a system that propelled Italian football into a position of great success on both club and national level, we now see the shortcomings of this strategy with vaning successes of Italian players generally and lack of results for both clubs and to a lesser extent the national side.
    To illustrate the reasons for these shortcomings, I will use the example of Denmark. All top-class Danish players over the last 20-30 years have gone abroad in a very young age. This has been the case with Michael Laudrup, Peter Schmeichel, Frank Arnesen, Søren Lerby, Brian Laudrup, Daniel Agger, Simon Kjær and especially the current generation of Viktor Fischer, Christian Eriksen and Pierre Højbjerg.

    Only very few players have made it to the top level without going abroad before the age of 21-22. How does this relate to Inter? Well, it shows that in general, players need to be AT top clubs to develop properly. It is all fine and dandy to play 28 matches for Frosinone, but if the training is mediocre and the coaches there never played football on the top level, it doesn’t matter.

    So, in short: It would be MUCH better for our young talents to remain at Inter until the age of 21-22. Perhaps they could be loaned out to sub-top clubs just before this age as we have seen with Courtois, Lukaku, Kroos, Carvajal etc. But the constant loaning of players aged 18-22 to Serie B clubs hampers their development seriously and should only be done with players that we have all but given up on.

    The issue is, then, that they have no matches to play. The Primavera is a U/19-league, and the Serie A clubs therefore desperately need a good Reserve League where the brightest young players could be matches with each other plus recovering top players. In most countries, the Reserve League more than equals the level of football that is seen in the 2nd tier, and this would definitely be the case in Italy as well, if the Reserve League were made out of the top 10-12 clubs. The benefits from such a structure would be that young players such as Benassi, Duncan etc. could train alongside Cambiasso, Zanetti, Milito etc. and be coached by Luis Figo, Beppe Baresi and so on. They would learn vital technical as well as mental insights and have much better schooling in general.
    So – stop the constant loaning and establish a strong Reserve League!

  16. #13
    Somebody stop me! Devious's Avatar
    Join Date
    01 Oct 06
    Posts
    11,470
    Thanked
    22,812 times
    Fav. Player
    Javier Zanetti

    Egypt

    Nicest Poster
    You guys seems to misunderstand the concept of "youth project".

    Simply it is the process of discovering talented players so we can buy them really cheap and/or develope them in the primavera ranks in order to sell them with a relatively higher price than we`ve bought them/invested in them.

    In that sense, Inter has been so succesful in applying the youth project. Things that makes you proud of your club.

    Shit doesnt happen

  17. Thanks (2): Guney, Redbullsnation

  18. #14
    Ronaldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Oct 10
    Posts
    9,435
    Thanked
    5,162 times
    Fav. Player
    Ronaldo

    Kuwait

    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Armes View Post
    Jokes and puns aside, that approach it's a bit pessimistic, with underlines of wishful thinking, or having "youth" for the sake of keeping them, not youth to be developed. As much as I'd like to contribute my own wishful thoughts, we're not particularly known for our youth, so unless the recruitment gets an upgrade so to speak, what use is youth if most of them are shit?
    I agree with Armes.. What use is youth if most of them are shit?! Wasn't Bessa once our best player and you guys all had high hopes for him? Where is he now? All you are going to say is 'injuries' because you can't admit it that he just sucks at senior level. Where is Longo who was also one of the best players in Next-Gen? Livaja? Obi? The player whom some of you guys were against selling him to PSG? And the list goes on and on.we've had hundreds of youth players but you guys can't name more than five who made it at senior level. Duncan used to cost 8 million and now he costs 3? And you seem to think he can go back to bossing and costing 8 million? What if he costs 1 million next season?

    To me, I don't mind using our primavera players as bargaining chips provided that we get better players (not like the Moratti era when we used to replace them with shit older players) unless someone is crazy talented like Balo was.

    The only young players that I care about are the ones that we sign at senior level. Players like Taider, Icardi, Kova, Belfodil. I want us to invest more in these types of players and if someone didn't do well from first attempt we be patient with them and maybe send them on loan to lower clubs with less pressure and to not cut them loose just after one season.

  19. Thanks (1): Irequis

  20. #15
    .h.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    08 Jun 05
    Posts
    19,421
    Thanked
    19,155 times
    Old name
    browha

    Europe

    25 Forum Supporter 10 years of FIF
    Quote Originally Posted by Seyedo View Post
    I agree with Armes.. What use is youth if most of them are shit?! Wasn't Bessa once our best player and you guys all had high hopes for him? Where is he now? All you are going to say is 'injuries' because you can't admit it that he just sucks at senior level. Where is Longo who was also one of the best players in Next-Gen? Livaja? And the list goes on and on.we've had hundreds of youth players but you guys can't name more than five who made it at senior level. Duncan used to cost 8 million and now he costs 3? And you seem to think he can go back to bossing and costing 8 million? What if he costs 1 million next season?

    To me, I don't mind using our primavera players as bargaining chips provided that we get better players (not like the Moratti era when we used to replace them with shit older players) unless someone is crazy talented like Balo was.

    The only young players that I care about are the ones that we sign at senior level. Players like Taider, Icardi, Kova, Belfodil. I want us to invest more in these types of players and if someone didn't do well from first attempt we be patient with them and maybe send them on loan to lower clubs with less pressure and to not cut them loose just after one season.
    I think everyone is happy to admit that, for various reasons, even the best youth players will fail. The general rule of thumb is that one or two per 'class' will make it at a decent level.

    So, yeah, I'm sad Bessa didnt make it, but these things happen.

    The point is, though, in people like Duncan, Benassi, MBaye, we have a LOT of genuinely talented youth players, who are developing nicely at Serie A level. Its nothing about people like Livaja or Longo (who dont get a game really), but its about people who have shown already they aren't out of their depth in Serie A.

    If you think I expect 50% of our youth players to go on to be top flight footballers, then you've completely misunderstood me. The question is what is the point of a youth project at all if we spend all of our time looking to fault them, rather than develop them, and our primary focus is how to make (a little) money off of them, rather than having faith and developing them.

    Our youth system costs 10 mil euros a year to run (approximately). Let's finally start to get some serious rewards for that.

    The attitude of selling players like Bonucci (for peanuts), Destro (6 mil? Within 1 season he was worth 12-16?), etc, is not reaping the rewards of our youth system.

  21. #16
    Ronaldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Oct 10
    Posts
    9,435
    Thanked
    5,162 times
    Fav. Player
    Ronaldo

    Kuwait

    9
    Yea one or two per class might make it but the problem is there is noway of knowing who would make it and who wont. When 99% of your youth are going to end up mediocre and you have no way of recognizing that 1%, the sensible thing to do is to sell them before their values decrease, like what we should've done with likes of Obi and maybe Duncan. The risk of keeping them is just too high and in that case you have no option other than risking that 1%.

    Either risk the whole 99% just so might see the 1% or risk the 1% so you make money out of 99%. I myself, prefer to risk the 1%.

    Here IMO, the system is somewhat at fault. If we had a system which could produce at least 20-30% quality players then it might make sense to keep them.

  22. #17
    .h.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    08 Jun 05
    Posts
    19,421
    Thanked
    19,155 times
    Old name
    browha

    Europe

    25 Forum Supporter 10 years of FIF
    But the point is about trying to allocate your faith optimally. Having faith in a player who has already played a full season of Serie A, and impressed at Serie B, is not really top of my candidates of 'failed youth players'. 3 million isn't worth selling Duncan - I'd rather keep him and roll the dice and see if he's worth 1 next year, or 10.

    The risk of keeping them isnt that high, either. You have 20 youth players a year who maybe make 100k a year (doubtful if it's even that, to be honest) - loan them out for 2-3 seasons and maybe 4 will still be left making the cut. There's actually very little inherent risk - most of the youth players we produce are also pretty much valueless, its only the really hyped ones who have any associated value.

  23. Thanks (1): Caecuban

  24. #18
    Ronaldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Oct 10
    Posts
    9,435
    Thanked
    5,162 times
    Fav. Player
    Ronaldo

    Kuwait

    9
    You yourself said it; our primavera cost us around 10 million per year doesn't it? Meaning in the last 5 years we have spent around 50 million on players like Bessa, Livaja, Longo.. Etc. we are spending all this money and we might end up not even making one tenth of it out of these players.

    I already said that if a player is crazy talented like Balo was, then yes we need to keep him. But the rest IMO, have to go.

    Even a crazy talented kid like Bessa didn't make it.

  25. #19
    .h.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    08 Jun 05
    Posts
    19,421
    Thanked
    19,155 times
    Old name
    browha

    Europe

    25 Forum Supporter 10 years of FIF
    Quote Originally Posted by Seyedo View Post
    You yourself said it; our primavera cost us around 10 million per year doesn't it? Meaning in the last 5 years we have spent around 50 million on players like Bessa, Livaja, Longo.. Etc. we are spending all this money and we might end up not even making one tenth of it out of these players.

    I already said that if a player is crazy talented like Balo was, then yes we need to keep him. But the rest IMO, have to go.

    Even a crazy talented kid like Bessa didn't make it.
    You make it sound like it is pre-determined if a player will make it or not, like football manager. It of course isn't. It comes down to hard work and years of development. Why you keep assuming Bessa isn't going to make it is beyond me. He's had a hard couple of years and anyone would agree this is going to make it LESS LIKELY that he will make it - but I wouldn't be writing him off already unless you know something I don't about Bessa.

    That 10 million a year isn't just for Primavera. It's for every stage of the youth team, so if you're going to be looking at that, you need to look all the way down. Players like Camara, Bonazzoli, Puscas, Tassi, down to people like Opoku, Taufer, etc.

    The whole point is that we've moved away from this model of 'sell or release immediately if they aren't good enough'; because simply deciding if a player is good enough at 20 or not is not cutting it. You have to consider how many Italy players now 'make it' in Serie B before moving up, for example, which is why I'm in favour of a patient model which gives 2-3 years for them to really test themselves before making any decisions about their future.

    Clearly this also works both ways - people like Riccardo Bocalon aged 24, or Andrea Mei then aged 25? should have been cut a long time ago.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Remember also our new relationship with Pro Prato needs to be factored in too.

  26. Thanks (3): Caecuban, Fitzy, Redbullsnation

  27. #20
    Universe's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Jan 09
    Posts
    16,730
    Thanked
    26,949 times
    Fav. Player
    Bossvaldo

    South Korea

    89 Forum Supporter Most Humorous Member
    I would say this approach to 'youth' not only applies to our primavera but to the 'youth' of our first team too, who are pretty much treated as primavera players.
    **I move away from the mic to breathe in

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •