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    Ranocchia?



    I’m going to systematically go through the 3 main points against Rano as captain (he’s not a leader, he doesn’t have enough quality, and he’s not old/experienced enough), and prove they are all bullshit. I'm sick and tired of this bullshit tirade against our captain.


    1. He’s not a leader



    Let’s make it very clear: Rano has a fucking difficult gig. He’s responsible for replacing one of the greatest captains in the history of football. All of the senatori that controlled the dressing room are gone. It’s essentially the Mourinho syndrome - i.e. when mourinho leaves, no one can measure up. That holds especially true for someone of Zanetti’s caliber.

    In order to be a leader, other players need to respect you. How could Ranocchia have possibly asserted himself in a team with JZ, stank, matrix, Cordoba, lucio, cesar, cuchu, chivu, Samuel, milito in the dressing room?

    Rano has only been captain for 2 months, yet in that time he’s become a leader with inter and certainly with the Italian nt. In nearly every game Conte has had with Italy, Rano has been a starter and Italy’s best defender by far - ahead of Chiellini, ddr, barzagli, bonucci, de sciglio, darmian…

    Leadership comes with respect. If Rano wasn’t respected, how can the team look up to him when they’re used to THOSE players heading the dressing room?

    And is leadership the only important quality in a captain?





    Javier Zanetti was an exemplary captain. And yet for years his leadership was questioned by his teammates for being far too passive. It was Recoba who said that while Zanetti is a fantastic person, Inter needs a captain like Paolo Maldini.

    JZ walked into the club in 1995 as Moratti’s first purchase alongside Rambert, Ince, and Roberto Carlos at quite possibly our lowest point. When Bergomi left in 1999, he was given the captaincy and rejected interest from RM and Barca. Watch Inter-Juve 2001 - zanetti was rano’s current age back then. And yet Blanc, zio’s replacement, was obviously the leader even if Zanetti was the captain.

    It was Blanc who was shouting at his teammates to keep moving and stay motivated, giving orders to Cordoba, JZ (where to mark, play the ball etc), scoring the goal, celebrating like a madman and encouraging the players to keep fighting, running his fucken ass off at the age of 35, and keeping trezeguet + zidane in his pocket. Zanetti played well, as always, but he wasn't close as dominant a leader as “le president” - the nickname given to Blanc by Marseille’s fans as a tribute to his leadership skills.

    When Inter were given unfair calls that favoured Juventus, it was Blanc and Di Biagio who passionately confronted the referee. Zanetti passively approached the official behind those two players, but he was pushed back and interrupted by Conte whenever he tried to say anything..

    While Zanetti became a very vocal leader and a legend of football and Inter later in his career, he was not as assertive earlier on - and yet that doesn’t mean he didn’t deserve the captaincy then. He deserved it over everyone else for two reasons - he bled black and blue on the pitch and he knew what Inter was all about more than anyone else.

    What do I mean by that second point?

    The reason why the player that has been in the team for the most time is given the armband is because it is assumed they understand the culture, fans, and history more than anyone else. The captain is the representative of the club to the tifosi from the squad. And that’s why Handa, ICardi, and Kovacic should not be captain, that’s why it would have been ridiculous to give Vidic the captaincy in his first year, that’s why it was only between Rano and Naga in the end.

    didn’t JZ and bergomi publicly give their blessing to rano? Now those are two people that understand what Inter means more than anyone else…


    2. He doesn’t have enough quality


    Lets cut the shit - Rano has had a very inconsistent 4 years with us, plagued by injury and bad form. He has only showed why we paid 17 million for him in a half season in 2012. Other than that, his game has been plagued with lapses in concentration and fuckups. Even though he’s been good with Conte, he was also dreadful under Prandelli in Italian nt.



    “le president”



    This year, on the other hand, he has become one of the league’s most consistent defenders and our best defender by far - even though he was largely played out of position (as rcb). and yet no praise came on FIF when he was beasting for weeks while JJ and Vidic fucked up constantly, and after 1 bad tackle in a game vs a ukrainian team and a loss against roma (where he even received a very solid 6.0 from gazzetta, was our best defender, scored the goal to keep us in the game, and make a number of crucial tackles) - he’s shit and needs to be stripped of his captaincy… overreaction much?

    Juan, Dodo, Mvila, Medel, and Campagnaro were worse than Ranocchia vs Roma, yet they didn't receive close to the amount of hate. Think about it this way: would anything have changed if we had fucking marquinhos or howedes instead of ranocchia? probably not. on the other hand, something would have definitely changed if we had lahm instead of campagnaro, or marquinhos instead of Juan Jesus...

    Juan has been our most inconsistent defender this season. He’s been involved in an innumerable amount of fuckups and it was predictable our left flank would be exposed with dodo ahead of him as leftback. JJ is still young, yes, but he's not THAT young.

    Lucio left brazil aged 23 and walked into a Leverkusen side challenging for UCL (lost to zidane’s RM in the final in his second year), bundes (lost the title by a single point on his first year). In 2002, aged 24, he started in brazil’s world cup winning team.

    Thiago silva aged 23 was still in brazil with fluminense as captain after moving to Europe waaaay to early and riding porto and dynamo’s bench for a season. Samuel aged 23 was one of serie a’s best defenders in his second season with roma after winning the scudetto in his first. Ramos was starting with real as one of their vice captains aged 23 5 years ago. Chivu aged 23 was coming off his last season in ajax and his first with roma…



    Bergomi waving goodbye to the “rano shouldn’t be captain” argument


    There’s definitely still time for jj to improve, but his positioning is beyond shit. it will continue to haunt him for the rest of his career - though it will probably also get much better.

    Lastly, let's briefly talk about Vidic, our highest paid squad member besides Guarin. the only reason he's getting so much dough is because he was expected to give us instant quality in our backline. Instead he’s become a liability, and in his absence others have risen to the challenge (namely andreolli).

    It's beyond ridiculous that some say “other than his fuckups in like 1 minute of the game, vidic is a beast in the other 89 minutes so give him time”. Yeah, but that one minute has costed us points. It’s a risk we don’t have to take that isn’t worth the reward.

    I also find it ridiculous others (no names, but you probably guess who) have the audacity to say Rano is shit and Vidic and Juan are much better, but “that still doesn’t mean andreolli should play over him”. Andreolli has without a doubt been better than both vidic and JJ this season because he’s been solid as fuck. If anyone should overtake rano in the lineup, it’s him.

    Although if any two players should even be overtaken, it should be campagnaro and jj.

    The arguments for Handanovic as our new captain are built around the fact he’s currently world class. Does that mean shit though? Is the best player necessarily the best captain? was picchi the best player in la grande inter? Was beppe baresi the best player in the scudetto winning side of 1989/1990?

    Does handanovic know shit about Inter, the tifosi, our history? Even if we ignore that, has he shown any signs of being a leader like blanc or picchi? Doesn’t handanovic want to leave Inter if we don’t qualify for UCL? What kind of loyalty/captain material is that? On the other hand, I don’t see rano ever leaving us no matter who comes calling or where we are in the table…

    And Handa wouldn't be a long term option either. It would be a short term fix to a non-existent problem.


    3. He’s not old/experienced enough to be the captain.



    Zanetti became captain aged 26, mazzola/picchi became captain aged 27, Bini became captain aged 23, Valentin Angelillo became captain aged 21…

    And just because there was a trend for older players to have the armband in the past, doesn’t mean it’s right to happen again. For example, Quaresma is 30, and he's still a dickhead.

    It's frankly absurd to have standards as to what a captain should and should not be. I can name you young captains, experienced captains, people who were at inter for a year and were then given the armband, people who were at inter for twenty years and were only given the armband for a single year, Italian captains, foreign captains…



    FIF wants my head? Tell them to fuck off.


    if I’ve missed anything, please add it to the list. if you disagree with this post, please respond. And lastly, I want to say it’s fucking disgusting some of you out there care more about being right than Inter or Rano doing well. The club and the forum are both better off without narcissistic fucks like you.

    edit; you know what, fuck this shitty ass debate. I wrote such a fucking pointless article. Ranocchia is Inter's captain - period. no point bitching about it or even addressing the bitching going on.
    Last edited by bandiera; 03 Dec 14 at 05:05.


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    The reason why the player that has been in the team for the most time is given the armband is because it is assumed they understand the culture, fans, and history more than anyone else. The captain is the representative of the club to the tifosi from the squad. And that’s why Handa, ICardi, and Kovacic should not be captain, that’s why it would have been ridiculous to give Vidic the captaincy after a year, that’s why it was only between Rano and Naga in the end.
    What does Ranocchia's extra 2 years or so put him in advantage of Handanovic or Nagatomo learning of the culture and history of Inter. Also since when is this the most important factor for choosing a captain? Not every captain at Inter needs to be in the Zanetti mould.




    Personally I have no issue with Ranocchia being captain. I would have chosen Handanovic but I'm not going to call for him to be stripped of it or even dropped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dylan View Post
    What does Ranocchia's extra 2 years or so put him in advantage of Handanovic or Nagatomo learning of the culture and history of Inter. Also since when is this the most important factor for choosing a captain? Not every captain at Inter needs to be in the Zanetti mould.

    Personally I have no issue with Ranocchia being captain. I would have chosen Handanovic but I'm not going to call for him to be stripped of it or even dropped.
    naga hasn't even proven he's good enough to start for inter this season, and it's a short term fix (he's 29 and he relies on stamina/speed)

    On the other hand, I've heard Rano talk about our history a lot - and I trust two people who know Inter more than anyone else (Zanetti, Bergomi) to recognize whether or not a player understands what it means to be at this club.

    And lastly, I touched on Handanovic at the end of the second section.

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    Andreolli should be the captain, Inter youth product, defensive leader elevating others' performance on the pitch, and solid like you said.

    If not, then he should at least be the vice captain.

    Furthermore, his hairstyle is quite similar to Capitano too.
    Wallace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace View Post
    Andreolli should be the captain, Inter youth product, defensive leader elevating others' performance on the pitch, and solid like you said.

    If not, then he should at least be the vice captain.

    Furthermore, his hairstyle is quite similar to Capitano too.
    he's not even a starter and he's not good enough either.

    why is it a contest between individual quality and passion for the shirt/leadership to be captain? why make it black and white when the truth is grey?

    what, either the captain is a world class player that doesnt care much about Inter or the captain is a passionate interista who is shit? Ffs.

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    Why not?

    A captain is a representation of the team, and someone who drives the team forward through motivating the team or by skills. Without some reasons that can convince people as to why he is capable of this task, how can he lead a team? More importantly, how can he lead a team through difficult moments and when we're in deficit?

    And plus, I'm not the one who's judging the criteria of the selection of a captain here, you are the one who's saying "he's not good enough". If you truly believe that quality has no correlation with the selection of a leader, then even Jonathan can be our captain.
    Wallace

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    not sure if you read the article at all..

    if the captain needs to be a leader, why wasn't blanc captain instead of zanetti in 1999? ranocchia has been much more vocal over the past two months than hes ever been in the past. How could he even assert himself as a leader and command the respect of his teammates in THAT dressing room?

    you're making it too black and white. never said quality "has no correlation with the selection of the leader".

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    nice article. kudos to bandiera who's willing to make a long writting for this debate.

    i personally dont see any significant point to create controversy around rano being our captain. i agree with bandiera. leadership skill grows over time and experience. after 2 months and people want to strip that armband is ridiculous.it's not like he fuckin propose himself to be a leader, or act like the only badass of the team. it would be logical if the leadership aspects becomes the 50 or 60 percent factor that contributes in the overall performance or result. but it's not. so the scapegoat not on the captaincy. yes, it does influence,but it's like about 15-20 % of the team performance. all the team that above us in the table so far dont always mean that they have better captain than inter

    people start to call rano is shitty captain when we lose or draw. but shut their mouth when victory comes. it means that it's all about results, not this assesment on personal skill about being a captain. result comes from more on technical aspects. and we are in stagnation or even decline in this term. non technical like psycological aspect can be divided into 2 namely role of a coach and a captain. so the portion will be smaller there to point the nose of a captain.

    but rano isnt free from the critics. he must realize very soon his role and bring up better leadership.
    shape of inter to come

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    Quote Originally Posted by bandiera View Post
    why wasn't blanc captain instead of zanetti in 1999?
    It's quite clear really, I thought this has already been mentioned a dozen times, but I'll say it again. Blanc was new to the team and he didn't know any Italian, that's why a more veteran Interista was chosen before him.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandiera View Post
    you're making it too black and white.
    What's wrong with that? I personally have a clear set of criteria of who I would choose to work as the team leader, be it in football or any other projects in any industries. You don't just choose random people to lead a team of people because there are "grey areas".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace View Post
    It's quite clear really, I thought this has already been mentioned a dozen times, but I'll say it again. Blanc was new to the team and he didn't know any Italian, that's why a more veteran Interista was chosen before him.
    so leadership isn't the most important thing? let me ask you this. what is your definition of a captain? the one you gave me was too cloudy - "representation of a team" "drives team forward" "motivates team" "skills". I have no idea what Im arguing against, so I answered against what I understood.

    and who is the player in the team that fills your criteria?

    What's wrong with that? I personally have a clear set of criteria of who I would choose to work as the team leader, be it in football or any other projects in any industries. You don't just choose random people to lead a team of people because there are "grey areas".
    the problem with making an issue black and white is that it oversimplifies/dilutes the issue. eg. it's either between a passionate interista who is shit or a world class player that doesn't care about Inter

    for example, you completely misunderstood my argument by making it black and white (with the andreolli nonsense)...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bandiera View Post
    let me ask you this. what is your definition of a captain? the one you gave me was too cloudy - "representation of a team" "drives team forward" "motivates team" "skills". I have no idea what Im arguing against, so I answered against what I understood.
    Perhaps you should be the one giving a clear definition before submitting a whole thesis trying to defend the decision to employ Ranocchia as the captain.

    This is what you gave:

    Quote Originally Posted by bandiera
    The captain is the representative of the club to the tifosi from the squad
    And you were talking about *cloudy* definitions

    Quote Originally Posted by bandiera View Post
    the problem with making an issue black and white is that it oversimplifies the issue and dilutes it to 1-2 key issues, when it's more complex (more issues, different importance put to different issues etc)...

    for example, you completely misunderstood my argument by making it black and white.
    I really don't see what's so complicated with choosing a captain.

    The entire article was initially based off comparing Blanc and Zanetti, but who said the appointment of Zanetti was actually absolute correct during that time? Heck, even until 2004/2005, there were people complaining about Zanetti's ability to act as a leader, from FIF to xtratime. Just because we didn't choose Zanetti based on leadership skills, doesn't mean we must avoid choosing one now based on leadership skills.

    And then the article goes off and argues Ranocchia's competitors don't either have sufficient quality or that they have sufficient quality but they somehow don't qualify as the captain. This is actually the funniest part of the article. The players who are not as good as Ranocchia are somehow not good enough to be the captain, somehow quality matters. But then when you talk about Handanovic, somehow quality doesn't matter anymore. If you don't make up your mind, then of course you're going to find everything complicated.

    The only reason why I mentioned Andreolli is because YOU actually mentioned Andreolli in your article, claiming how much quality he had over other defenders, but stopped there abruptly because he might have actually challenge Ranocchia's captaincy.

    Why don't you actually do something to save people's time and from arguing against your article, list a set of criteria on how you would choose your captain to show how difficult it is. If you can't, well then I think you're just making it more complicated because you're disregarding every point people are bringing up with fabricated reasoning, rather than arguing and evaluating these players with solid evidence.

    I do appreciate the points you bring up, but you're not going very far if you think you can get away arguing solely by telling people they are oversimplifying things.

    As for who should be the captain and who shouldn't. Quite frankly, I don't give a flying fuck.
    Wallace

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    I thought that definition actually makes a lot of sense. The captain is the person that talks to the curva nord. The captain is the player that knows the history of the jersey and respects the shirt a lot. The link between the fans and the squad.

    But in order for the position to have any meaning within the context of a competitive sport, obviously quality matters too. I never said otherwise. it's not one or the other.

    I'm not saying "we chose Zanetti for reason X, so let's choose Rano for the same reason". I'm saying Zanetti's appointment makes sense, as does Rano, because they both have what I personally value in a captain. Only the first section talks about Blanc, but it's a great example...

    And then the article goes off and argues Ranocchia's competitors don't either have sufficient quality or that they have sufficient quality but they somehow don't qualify as the captain. This is actually the funniest part of the article. The players who are not as good as Ranocchia are somehow not good enough to be the captain, somehow quality matters. But then when you talk about Handanovic, somehow quality doesn't matter anymore. If you don't make up your mind, then of course you're going to find everything complicated.
    ummm... this was precisely what I was addressing in my previous post. why are you making it black and white? Quality and passion for the shirt/leadership both matter - it's not a competition between one or ther other. Players that have quality but zero passion for the shirt and players that lack quality but have lots of passion for this shirt should both NOT be captain.

    to be specific, for handanovic, i said the best player isn't always the best captain. first i gave examples. then i explained why. there are other things (like knowing what Inter is about, leadership, loyalty) that are also important... the reverse holds true for andreolli.

    Andreolli doesnt start. Captains shouldn't be on the bench. He's on the bench because his quality isn't good enough to start - all I said Andreolli has been solid as fuck with us so far. It's similar to say Kuz has been better than Kova over the past few weeks. I never said Juan should be benched, just like I wouldn't say Kova should be benched instead of Kuz. I said IF anybody should be benched at this point, it should be JJ and Camp - meaning they were the two worst defenders vs roma.

    Why don't you actually do something to save people's time and from arguing against your article, list a set of criteria on how you would choose your captain to show how difficult it is.
    Relax bro. This wasn't as much of a pro Ranocchia article as it was an anti- anti-Ranocchia article .. and you didn't give anything close to a definition or a criteria that you claim to be sooo important to have any credibility (awkward moment ).

    edit; i don't think rano is a perfect option either. but this article just confronted everyone's problems with him as captain. that's it - im just going against the case of people who say rano is a terrible captain and he should be stripped of the armband, im not going FOR rano over everyone else per se. it's a matter of perspective.
    Last edited by bandiera; 03 Dec 14 at 09:31.

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    I don't him as someone with leadership qualities. And I think our side is in need of someone with such qualities. He's a good player who is great on his day. He's been okay this season. I don't think he's been awful like some people have been suggesting, but he's done an adequate job. Do I want someone to replace him as captain? No, not at this point.
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    I dont agree with Bandiera on this but I thank you for the effort you put in the article.

    And who knows maybe I`m wrong about Ranocchia, I certainly hope someday that I`ll be proven wrong specially that not so long ago I had a dream of a Rano-Juan solid partnership that`ll last for more than a decade and will remind us of the days of Lucio-Samuel.

    Shit doesnt happen

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    Quote Originally Posted by bandiera View Post
    naga hasn't even proven he's good enough to start for inter this season, and it's a short term fix (he's 29 and he relies on stamina/speed)

    On the other hand, I've heard Rano talk about our history a lot - and I trust two people who know Inter more than anyone else (Zanetti, Bergomi) to recognize whether or not a player understands what it means to be at this club.

    And lastly, I touched on Handanovic at the end of the second section.
    Nagatomo was still the a first choice player at the time when Ranocchia was handed the armband as this was in preseason before his drop in form was seen.

    When did Zanetti and Bergomi back Rano as captain? Was it before or after he was selected. Either way I think a)In the case that they backed him before he was officially made captain. These players (Zanetti still being employed at Inter in some capacity) are not just going to throw their name behind someone without knowing who would become captain. It would look bad an untrusting. Or, b) They gave their backing after he was made captain. In which case someone like Zanetti isn't going to come out and say ''Rano wouldn't have been my choice''.

    I just think overall you're overplaying this connection to our history and knowledge about it.

    About Handa you said:
    Does handanovic know shit about Inter, the tifosi, our history? Even if we ignore that, has he shown any signs of being a leader like blanc or picchi? Doesn’t handanovic want to leave Inter if we don’t qualify for UCL? What kind of loyalty/captain material is that? On the other hand, I don’t see rano ever leaving us no matter who comes calling or where we are in the table…
    Does Handa know shit about Inter? Who knows? Maybe he knows more than Ranocchia but he just doesn't say anything. You can't know that. I've seen him be a lot more vocal than Ranocchia and pretty much anyone on the pitch when he has to give out shit when the defence fucks up. More than I've seen Ranocchia do this year in his new role as captain. Yes there are rumours that he wants CL, but I like that ambition. Who's to say if a big club comes calling Ranocchia won't ask to go? If we put both Handanovic and Ranocchia up for sale to CL clubs then a club who needs a goalkeeper would be more likely to pay more money fro Handa than a CL needing a CB considering we would probably look to sell him for over 15 million to recoup some of what we paid.

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    Grande Bandiera, great post.


    Quote Originally Posted by bandiera View Post
    lastly, I want to say it’s fucking disgusting some of you out there care more about being right than Inter or Rano doing well. The club and the forum are both better off without narcissistic fucks like you.
    this.

    And this forum is full of them.


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    Quote Originally Posted by bandiera View Post
    I thought that definition actually makes a lot of sense. The captain is the person that talks to the curva nord. The captain is the player that knows the history of the jersey and respects the shirt a lot. The link between the fans and the squad.
    Come on mate, that's far more blurry than what I gave. At least I talked about what he does, motivating the team, where as you simply say "the link", knowing the "history". What, are we choosing a historian or some HR person here?

    Quote Originally Posted by bandiera View Post

    But in order for the position to have any meaning within the context of a competitive sport, obviously quality matters too. I never said otherwise. it's not one or the other.

    I'm not saying "we chose Zanetti for reason X, so let's choose Rano for the same reason". I'm saying Zanetti's appointment makes sense, as does Rano, because they both have what I personally value in a captain. Only the first section talks about Blanc, but it's a great example...
    In that case, then you don't really have a certain criteria in valuing what's in a captain.

    Again, in your article you really never really properly evaluated the list of players along these points you've brought up. Sure, you have compared the lack of quality in Juan Jesus, but again as I've said, you've simply completely neglected the quality of Handanovic despite admitting quality matters.

    What I am saying here is, you are lacking a thought process here.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandiera View Post

    ummm... this was precisely what I was addressing in my previous post. why are you making it black and white? Quality and passion for the shirt/leadership both matter - it's not a competition between one or ther other. Players that have quality but zero passion for the shirt and players that lack quality but have lots of passion for this shirt should both NOT be captain.

    to be specific, for handanovic, i said the best player isn't always the best captain. first i gave examples. then i explained why. there are other things (like knowing what Inter is about, leadership, loyalty) that are also important... the reverse holds true for andreolli.

    Andreolli doesnt start. Captains shouldn't be on the bench. He's on the bench because his quality isn't good enough to start - all I said Andreolli has been solid as fuck with us so far. It's similar to say Kuz has been better than Kova over the past few weeks. I never said Juan should be benched, just like I wouldn't say Kova should be benched instead of Kuz. I said IF anybody should be benched at this point, it should be JJ and Camp - meaning they were the two worst defenders vs roma.
    How do you evaluate passion?

    What is showing Ranocchia got the passion over the likes of Juan Jesus, Handanovic, and Nagatomo, or even possibly Guarin?

    Again, you're being nebulous at best in your article and even in your reply. You're simply saying Handanovic is our best player but the other things he doesn't seem to hold against Ranocchia, for which I question the validity of such statement.


    Quote Originally Posted by bandiera View Post

    Relax bro. This wasn't as much of a pro Ranocchia article as it was an anti- anti-Ranocchia article .. and you didn't give anything close to a definition or a criteria that you claim to be sooo important to have any credibility (awkward moment ).
    Awkward moment? Yeah, the only thing awkward is reading your so called article.

    I'm only arguing in between the lines of what I read. Again, if you're trying to justify the employment of Ranocchia as the captain, then you should be proposing a clear cut definitions.

    Why am I, the reader of an article, supposed to be spoonfeeding you definitions and criterias? I'm not the one judging anything here. I'm simply questioning your method of justifying Ranocchia's captaincy. Have you ever heard a thesis committee giving the thesis writer the definition when they raise questions about his thesis? I honestly haven't, but you don't seem to understand this concept of providing proofs to support your statement, so I'm gonna let this go.
    Wallace

  30. Thanks (1): Kakaroto

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