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Thread: UEFA Champions League 2017/2018

  1. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by brehme1989 View Post
    It'd be better if you tried at all instead of posting nonsense.
    You're talking about perennial winners with a decade and a half in the CL. That's experience no matter how much their average is. Had you talked about teams like Lyon, it'd be different, but you opted for the most absurd "counter" (it's not even a proper counter argument...)
    When you're talking about players with 6-7 seasons of experience and barely 6-7 games a year, that's the level of Olympiakos who are probably the worst team statistically in the competition's history.

    Just some examples.

    Vasilis Torosidis: 20 games in 4 seasons.
    Giannis Maniatis: 22 games in 4 seasons.
    David Fuster: 23 games in 4 seasons.

    Average of around 5,4 games per season. Only reason they don't have 6 seasons is because they managed to get disqualified before the CL groups the few times they didn't qualify automatically.
    That's the level of CL experience you're comparing the Man City lot to, not Xavi, Scholes and Iniesta ffs... Additionally, big clubs have the luxury of resting some players for a couple of CL group games.



    I never blamed their loss on experience. It's a quality + circumstances situation. But to say that Man City are "seasoned" in the CL is even more bullshit. Their CL campaign is comparable with the likes of Roma, PSV and Benfica. They have a lot of potential and too much strength in numbers to consider them a small team in the tournament, but the numbers so far suggest this. This season will probably be the initiation point of Man City becoming an important club in the Champions League.
    I'm gonna be honest dude, you're kinda just proving his point for him...........the whole argument that Man City's team was under experienced is as ambiguous as saying they're just as experienced as Barca's legends. And that's what monster was showing. And you're reaffirming it by proving that the whole ambiguity comes full circle.........
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    Quote Originally Posted by monster09 View Post
    wera?
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    What I gathered from his point about lack of experience was the experience playing under Pep and his extremely demanding style and methods, not in playing in the CL.

  4. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh View Post
    I'm gonna be honest dude, you're kinda just proving his point for him...........the whole argument that Man City's team was under experienced is as ambiguous as saying they're just as experienced as Barca's legends. And that's what monster was showing. And you're reaffirming it by proving that the whole ambiguity comes full circle.........
    If you add the times those 4 players were unused substitutes, you get an average of around 10 games in the CL per season. That's signficantly better than less than 6 which is just group stage numbers.

    As I said, Man City's players can be compared to the teams I've mentioned.

    Just look at Dejan Stankovic as an example of our own. Has 11 seasons in the Champions League iirc, with 87 appearances and sat on the bench for another 5 games, which basically makes it 92 CL game presences with his team in 11 years, ignoring any injuries and suspensions. Compare that 8,5 games a season to 5,8 games a season. That's the difference between playing until winter and playing until spring. Less than 6 games a year in the CL is loser's numbers. You can't compare with players with top 10 appearances of all time who play until their late 30s and are underused after a point. Aguero and David Silva need to play at least 10 games a season for 3 years to reach Dejan Stankovic in his 11 season CL career whilst their career average is less than 7...

    Experience can be just a word, but when you want to talk about how experience can help winning, then Man City did not have that. Whether you want to compare to Monaco or Bate or Real Madrid, it doesn't matter. They just didn't have it.

    It's almost like calling Brian Scalabrine an experienced NBA player because he's been in the league for 11 years and barely managed 560 games in 82-game seasons + playoffs. Sure, he played 11 years but what did he do? 3 points per game and 50 games a year... Or almost like calling Berni a 'seasoned' goalkeeper, a player whose been in professional football for over 15 years and has less than 100 appearances. Both know how their team sport works, but they don't really have any relevant playing experience, let alone winning experience.

    P.S: It's also rather established in sports psychology that winning breeds winning and losing breeds losing. Which is why too much experience with no results isn't really better than no experience at all. Which is also why teams want to hire managers that can bring a winning culture into the team (eg Mourinho back in 2008, or City with Guardiola).

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    Do you have a TLDR, and I'm still not understanding the point you're trying to make?
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  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh View Post
    Do you have a TLDR, and I'm still not understanding the point you're trying to make?
    Copy-pastying from above:
    Experience can be just a word, but when you want to talk about how experience can help winning, then Man City did not have that. Whether you want to compare to Monaco or Bate or Real Madrid, it doesn't matter. They just didn't have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brehme1989 View Post
    Copy-pastying from above:
    Experience can be just a word, but when you want to talk about how experience can help winning, then Man City did not have that. Whether you want to compare to Monaco or Bate or Real Madrid, it doesn't matter. They just didn't have it.
    Ahh yes it was their lack of EXPERIENCE that made them lose to Monaco in such a shameful way.

    You know what managers are supposed to do? Be sound tactically, manage egos in dressing rooms, and get the best out of their players Pep certainly did not do that last year. Again I don't think Pep is absolutely shit like CC does (still got me creasing bro, one of my faves around here) but I just think he should have done a lot better than he did last year and definitely with Bayern. What's his excuse with them I ask? To me he still needs to prove himself, I realise that is not every ones way of thinking but that's just me.

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    I'm not talking about Pep. I said in an earlier post that this is the job of a manager to do, to destroy the loser mentality and bring something different. Which is obviously easier than replacing the whole team with new players. And it rarely happens overnight or within a season.

    The Monaco game was not due to inexperience vs inexperience. It was due to quality. Monaco was simply better and Man City's defence was awful like a typical EPL mentality that thinks they will stomp over anyone who comes to their path that they've never heard of (because they don't bother hearing about them). Saying that Man City had the CL experience to overcome Monaco is just silly. Winning against PSG the year before was their best ever achievement and it wasn't really due to merit, they were overplayed in both games yet they managed the win. That was on Pellegrini.

    Chelsea had that as well in the early Conte days and he turned it around by asking the players to embrace professionalism and a concentration to get the result instead of playing for the sake of playing. Now they're getting complacent again. Man City didn't have that and I can't comment on whether Pep can do that in the end but I definitely believe he will try.

  9. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by brehme1989 View Post

    Monaco was simply better and Man City's defence was awful like a typical EPL mentality that thinks they will stomp over anyone who comes to their path that they've never heard of (because they don't bother hearing about them).


    Just because they are an EPL team, that doesn't mean that doesn't happen elsewhere as well. Inter 2011 vs Schalke, Inter 2012 against Monaco.

    Otherwise I agree with your points.
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  10. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by wera View Post


    Just because they are an EPL team, that doesn't mean that doesn't happen elsewhere as well. Inter 2011 vs Schalke, Inter 2012 against Monaco.

    Otherwise I agree with your points.
    EPL teams tend to be reckless even against other EPL teams at the bottom of the table. Which makes up for "entertainment" in the league as there's too much complacency. The odd game where the favorites lose is part of the sport, but letting your guard down is something that's been going for years with English teams and only a few coaches have managed to 'lose' that trait in Europe. Ferguson, Benitez and Mourinho, the list could grow now that there's more managerial talent in the league.
    You can also see this with the national team. They're focused enough to be part of a competition (qualifiers) but when they get there, it's too damn hard to play well against teams not called Germany, Brazil or Argentina. It's called megalomania. And it's not a trait they only have, but I think collectively they do when you compare them to other leagues/teams. Italians are collectively more cautious, Spaniards are collectively more effective, Germans are collectively more determined etc. I know it's a stereotype, but when it happens too often it's almost a fact.

    Inter played Marseille in 2012, not Monaco. Also happened a decade earlier with Drogba in the Uefa Cup against Marseille. We're also quite reckless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wera View Post


    Just because they are an EPL team, that doesn't mean that doesn't happen elsewhere as well. Inter 2011 vs Schalke, Inter 2012 against Monaco.

    Otherwise I agree with your points.
    Anyone who thinks Clubs don't know some clubs from other big clubs needs to have a word with themselves. Also problem with EPL clubs is giving too much respect and playing with fear against any opponent in KO rounds. Also apart from geographical location, there is nothing Englishness in Chelsea, ManUtd, ManCity, Arsenal, Liverpool. Only Spurs have Englishness in their team.
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  13. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by monster09 View Post
    Anyone who thinks Clubs don't know some clubs from other big clubs needs to have a word with themselves. Also problem with EPL clubs is giving too much respect and playing with fear against any opponent in KO rounds. Also apart from geographical location, there is nothing Englishness in Chelsea, ManUtd, ManCity, Arsenal, Liverpool. Only Spurs have Englishness in their team.
    It's called "exaggerating to prove a point". Claiming 'too much respect' is funny.

    Also, Liverpool has the most players in the English NT with Henderson, Clyne, Lallana, Sturridge(when not hospitalized) and Chamberlain. I think they've called up that Joe Gomez kid as well.
    Tottenham has the most important ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh View Post
    Do you have a TLDR, and I'm still not understanding the point you're trying to make?
    Damn, he just keep digging huh



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    Monaco and Sevilla getting dolphin raped at home

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armes View Post
    Monaco and Sevilla getting dolphin raped at home
    Wtf happened to Monaco!!! They are total trash this Champions league. My homie Super Saiyan God mode Falcao scores tho he Needs to find a better team come this summer after he wins the golden boot at the WC
    can we stop buying fking MFs!!!

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    Napoli has a chance to qualify if they win the next one vs Feyenoord and Shakhtar loses vs City, which is very possible.
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