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Thread: Federico Chiesa

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DARi0 View Post
    I say we go ALL IN on him this summer, seems like a safer bet than Ziyech/Pépé to me, especially on the long run.
    How is Chiesa a safer bet than Ziyech? because he's playing for a relegation battling Fiorentina? Ziyech proved himself over and over

    Ziyech all the way. Fuck Chiesa
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    Im all in for Ziyech as well. Except raw pace, he is better at pretty much everything else.
    "This wonderful night will give us the colours for our crest: black and blue against a backdrop of gold stars. It will be called Internazionale, because we are brothers of the world."

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    Ziyech is also 5 years further in his development, just saying.

    26 year old that’s never proven himself outside the ajax system and Dutch league.

    Not saying Chiesa is more proven but we know Ajax can often make players look better in their system then they actually are. Similar to Atalanta under Gasperini. Chiesa has also proven to be dangerous for the national team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thatdude View Post
    Ziyech is also 5 years further in his development, just saying.

    26 year old that’s never proven himself outside the ajax system and Dutch league.

    Not saying Chiesa is more proven but we know Ajax can often make players look better in their system then they actually are. Similar to Atalanta under Gasperini. Chiesa has also proven to be dangerous for the national team.
    Which prompts me to ask the same thing I asked in the De Paul thread and never got an answer to - if there are these managers and these systems that can make players look "better than they are", why can't we replicate the same kinds of systems? Honest question. A key component of coaching and strategy is to get the most out of the players you have at your disposal. And, frankly, if Ajax and Atalanta are able to max out the talent in their squads, to me that just makes them sound like they're teams that are ahead of the curve.

    I'm over-simplifying here, but I'm of the belief about molding your system to the talent you have, not rigidly trying to mold the talent to your system. I'll pretty much always take the option that gives me the squad with the most talent, everything else being equal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thatdude View Post
    Ziyech is also 5 years further in his development, just saying.

    26 year old that’s never proven himself outside the ajax system and Dutch league.

    Not saying Chiesa is more proven but we know Ajax can often make players look better in their system then they actually are. Similar to Atalanta under Gasperini. Chiesa has also proven to be dangerous for the national team.
    Ajax's success doesn't come only due to their "system". They have some key players to make this system works and Zieych is one of those. Chiesa is more expensive and overhyped. He proved himself in Fiorentina, where has no pressure and a lot of freedom on the pitch.

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    I don't know why but I just don't get excited hearing Chiesa's name. He is definitely a very good player, certainly better than the likes of Ziyech.
    Ajax just thrashed Juve!! Fuck whoever uses the 'experience' excuse for signing bunch of mediocre 30+ year olds who do nothing other than laying in the treatment room and demanding high wages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by varmin View Post
    Ajax's success doesn't come only due to their "system". They have some key players to make this system works and Zieych is one of those. Chiesa is more expensive and overhyped. He proved himself in Fiorentina, where has no pressure and a lot of freedom on the pitch.
    No doubt, Ajax has some special players. De Ligt, De Jong, Ziyech and Neres are the obvious standout prospects for the transfer market. The difference between Ziyech and the others is he’s not really a prospect he’s a player in the prime of his career. I don’t think his ceiling is a high as Chiesa’s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kramerica Industries View Post
    Which prompts me to ask the same thing I asked in the De Paul thread and never got an answer to - if there are these managers and these systems that can make players look "better than they are", why can't we replicate the same kinds of systems? Honest question. A key component of coaching and strategy is to get the most out of the players you have at your disposal. And, frankly, if Ajax and Atalanta are able to max out the talent in their squads, to me that just makes them sound like they're teams that are ahead of the curve.

    I'm over-simplifying here, but I'm of the belief about molding your system to the talent you have, not rigidly trying to mold the talent to your system. I'll pretty much always take the option that gives me the squad with the most talent, everything else being equal.
    We can. It's easier for clubs which aren't constantly under the pressure of getting results, but indeed we can.

    It takes more time, clearly, and there is the risk of sacrificing the results for one season.

    If Conte is our next coach though, that means we have chosen the opposite path.
    Last edited by firmino; 17 May 19 at 20:29.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
    I don't know why but I just don't get excited hearing Chiesa's name. He is definitely a very good player, certainly better than the likes of Ziyech.
    Exactly, I find him more interesting than Ziyech. That being said, I won't be disappointed if we get someone/better than Chiesa.

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    is there any possibility that he could make the same level as eden hazard ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertigo View Post
    is there any possibility that he could make the same level as eden hazard ?
    No

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    I keep thinking that people don't actually watch Viola and see Chiesa only on highlites and vs. us. You do realize that if he continues to play as he does for Viola, you will be biting you nails and want him sold after 1 season?

    that's IF, it mostly depends on his mindset. The talent is deffo there, physicality too, his success will be determined ONLY by his mindset. He must learn to play with his team, under pressure, he must learn to pass, he must learn not to over dribble (hence he has tons of lost balls), and only then he will succeed at team like Inter and justify the money Della Valle ask for him.
    "This wonderful night will give us the colours for our crest: black and blue against a backdrop of gold stars. It will be called Internazionale, because we are brothers of the world."

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    Talent is not enough in todays football.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pajo View Post
    I keep thinking that people don't actually watch Viola and see Chiesa only on highlites and vs. us. You do realize that if he continues to play as he does for Viola, you will be biting you nails and want him sold after 1 season?
    So you are the guy who watches every Serie A match and knows everything about every player?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pajo View Post
    that's IF, it mostly depends on his mindset. The talent is deffo there, physicality too, his success will be determined ONLY by his mindset. He must learn to play with his team, under pressure, he must learn to pass, he must learn not to over dribble (hence he has tons of lost balls), and only then he will succeed at team like Inter and justify the money Della Valle ask for him.
    Fiorentina asks too much money, for this price he can go to fucking Juventus. Remember Bernardeschi?


    ... But I don't think he can continue his "beach soccer" style in a team with Conte as coach.
    IF a coach can change him to play as team player, then Conte is one of the few coaches who can do it!
    Inter clueless management with no strategy and wasting tons of money. every year, again and again

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  19. #34
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    Btw, Berna was also a bit overpriced, and he was and still is, better player than Chiesa. Different style, but overall better player.

    edit: just thinking, IF we buy him, where will he play under Conte? RWB/LWB? Contes primary formation is 3-5-2, i dont see place for Chisea there. Maybe in 3-4-3 as one of the 3 at the front...
    "This wonderful night will give us the colours for our crest: black and blue against a backdrop of gold stars. It will be called Internazionale, because we are brothers of the world."

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    As far players looking better in certain systems go, that is also why I believe you don't need Eden Hazard, CR7 and Messi in a team to win CL/a league. It's more about the system. Like there was a vast talent+experience difference between Pandev and Eto'o, and still, with Mourinho, they were both practically on the same level.

    So focusing on gettibg Rakitić, Modrić and that kind of experienced players don't actually mean our results will get better. Same for younger, cool attacking players. The system has to work and we have to spend money more wisely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
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    Chiesa vs Ziyech

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB View Post
    How is Chiesa a safer bet than Ziyech? because he's playing for a relegation battling Fiorentina? Ziyech proved himself over and over

    Ziyech all the way. Fuck Chiesa
    Very good arguments brought to you by thatdude ^^ Buy your question is also very good to think about: exactly, dude! He is playing in mid-table Fiorentina with mostly average players around him. Now imagine his stats playing in a team like Ajax. Even now he would be looking better. How about in 5 years?

    With "Chiesa safer bet" I was referring to:

    1. we need to cut juBe short on taking all the most talented italians out there!

    2. just the fact that we are talking about signing him, a 21 year old wonderkid with highest ceiling possible vs 26 year old complete player - means something already.

    3. Chiesa we know for sure what kind of blood runs through is veins (footballer genes) and his never-die attitude is a guarantee he will continue developing year after year. We all know how fine italians tend to be even better by the end of their careers, if they are serious about their careers. I am confident both Barella and Chiesa will make it big, potentially world class players if developed correctly. The fact that we are bringing in a very demanding coach also makes it appealing for ambitious personalities.

    4. Ziyech`s dream might be to play for other top club and he might see Inter as a stepping stone, while Chiesa might just settle to be legend of an italian club, because he is italian. Assumption to be debated below.

    5. ^^ in case he can actually prove himself in the world`s most difficult league, coming from the Mickey Mouse league. This, while Chiesa is Serie A proven at just 21 and can only up his level.

    6. potential re-sale value: let`s say Chiesa does want to leave at some point, say in 6 years moves to Barcelona. Given the inflation of the market, the profit margin is incomparable. Marotta for sure takes into consideration these types of things as well.

    7. Adaptation factor: we are bringing Conte to win, enough with year zer0. Chiesa not only he knows the language, he understands the dynamics of Serie A defending and how to apply certain tactics in field. Who do you think would settle in quicker out of these 2, the established player or the younger italian one?

    Subjective stuff, so won`t even count it: I saw a couple of interviews with Ziyech and he doesn`t strike me as the most intelligent person, and sometimes his decision making is questionable. Sure his stats are looking great, but I`m 100% he wont won`t get so many chances/match over here! So yeah, perhaps Ajax system makes him look better because they play attacking football as a cohesive unit, but I`m not sure how he could break down Serie A defenses on his own...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pajo View Post
    Btw, Berna was also a bit overpriced, and he was and still is, better player than Chiesa. Different style, but overall better player.
    Again, why are you comparing 25-year old Bernardeschi training with top players and top coach with 21 year old Chiesa playing at Fiorentina? If anything, have a look where Bernardeschi was playing at Chiesa`s age and what his stats were. Yeah, he sure did well at Crotone in Serie B...

    Mentality is what makes the difference on the long run and while Bernardeschi is a fashion victim & Ziyech is dying his hair, Chiesa seems focused on football and his performances. So his asking price is made out of the higher potential + recent market inflation.

    Remember #InterIsComing? It`s about fucking time! No more FFP or SA excuses. Everybody is talking about Suning having the money and intention to make it big, then why settle for less? I want the best for my team, so let`s bring in what is best available in each transfer market.
    Last edited by DARi0; 17 May 19 at 08:46.
    NULLA É IMPOSSIBILE PER QUESTA SQUADRA! FORZA INTER PER SEMPRE

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    You miss something very important - price tag. Chiesa will cost around 70mln and his product is far away off that mark. 12 goals and 9 assists are nice stats for 21 years old lad but not enough for 70mln player. He will get huge wave of negativism after first 4-5 poor games of him and i'm not sure that Chiesa has the balls to overcome it. The possibility to turn to next Kondogbia or JM is high. Especially at Inter.
    Honestly i prefer a completed player like 26 years old Zieych for 40mln than a talented but spoiled youngstar for 70mln.

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  26. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by varmin View Post
    You miss something very important - price tag. Chiesa will cost around 70mln and his product is far away off that mark. 12 goals and 9 assists are nice stats for 21 years old lad but not enough for 70mln player. He will get huge wave of negativism after first 4-5 poor games of him and i'm not sure that Chiesa has the balls to overcome it. The possibility to turn to next Kondogbia or JM is high. Especially at Inter.
    Honestly i prefer a completed player like 26 years old Zieych for 40mln than a talented but spoiled youngstar for 70mln.
    That also means Chiesa has normally 5 more years in his prime than Zieych! From here is the price difference!
    And really I don't see Chiesa as a spoiled youngstar!

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    Quote Originally Posted by varmin View Post
    You miss something very important - price tag. Chiesa will cost around 70mln and his product is far away off that mark. 12 goals and 9 assists are nice stats for 21 years old lad but not enough for 70mln player. He will get huge wave of negativism after first 4-5 poor games of him and i'm not sure that Chiesa has the balls to overcome it. The possibility to turn to next Kondogbia or JM is high. Especially at Inter.
    Honestly i prefer a completed player like 26 years old Zieych for 40mln than a talented but spoiled youngstar for 70mln.
    Stats wise Chiesa is as mediocre as they get. Take the cup away where he had 1-2 games that immensely boosted his stats, in the league he has 6 goals and 3 assists, while being starter all the time, and has one of the most lost balls in serie a per game (bad touch + dispossessed), and like 70% passing success.
    Last edited by Pajo; 17 May 19 at 10:48.
    "This wonderful night will give us the colours for our crest: black and blue against a backdrop of gold stars. It will be called Internazionale, because we are brothers of the world."

    Derby d'Italia, why the rivalry?
    My message to JuBe cunts


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    I dont watch Chiesa enough to judge him but one thing I always find funny is people here on FIF usually use the game vs Fio to highlight how much better Chiesa is compared to Politano. Yes, that game where Poli scored a nice goal when Chiesa was exactly what people have always been criticized Poli of, i.e. being dangerous but no end products whatsoever.

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