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Thread: 2018/2019 Midfielders Rumours Thread

  1. #2681

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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeCordoba View Post
    It's not my nonsense I just said it. Source is Bild.
    Bild and L'equipe are 2 of the shit sources that somehow people still think they are reliable

  2. #2682
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    Quote Originally Posted by brehme1989 View Post
    Julian Brandt 25m.

    But I'm "stuck in the past" for saying that even Juventus gets starters for those fees when people promote wasting 50 and 60 millions we do not have on random prospects.
    What are you going on about? Just because there is a player with a low release clause does not mean thats his market value. It means there is an opportunity in the market, but unfortunately it also means that Brandt will choose his next team and his wage demands will be pretty high. You have to look at the total cost of the player, not just his transfer fee. And its not like its entirely up to Inter whether to pick up Brandt for 25m. Just like its not entirely up to Inter whether to pick up De Gea, Rabiot and Brahimi on a free.

    If Inter want a quality player for a specific role, these days 50m - 60m is pretty much par for the course. Thats the way the market has moved in the last 2-3 years. I am sorry but you still sound like you are stuck in the past.

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  4. #2683
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    We'll see in the summer where these transfer figures will be.

    As for Julian Brandt, he surely is an outlier but he's not the only exception. We could find at least a couple of those instead of wasting money we don't have on players that do not have a direct quality impact (ie elevate our playing level immediately)

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    At this moment there are a lot of players that will bring immediate positive impact compared to Perišić, Candreva and Nainggolan.

    This is what I have been saying and Brandt would def make us better.
    Quote Originally Posted by wera View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
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  6. #2685
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    Quote Originally Posted by wera View Post
    At this moment there are a lot of players that will bring immediate positive impact compared to Perišić, Candreva and Nainggolan.

    This is what I have been saying and Brandt would def make us better.
    Brandt is one of them, yes.

    Jovic is not a clear cut one and we have no space for him since we want to use Lautaro or keep our top class striker assuming we kick some senses in him.

    Lozano is a risk, Bergwijn cannot become our leader in 19/20, Chiesa will be an upgrade over Politano & Candreva but with that said, he's not world class yet and he's no guarantee that he can play at the very top level without hesitations (he's played some mickey mouse games with Italy and barely played in European cups with Fiorentina and has no championship experience, not even at Primavera levels, whereas players like Lozano and Bergwijn have championship experience)

    Nicoals Pepe is another similar one and he's probably just a firework. I don't believe players with the skill set he has can be late bloomers. It barks 'streaky' at best and we're not the ideal club for such expensive transfers.At least yet, since we still need to change something like 10 players for sure before we can consider signing players for the rotation in the hope that they can be better than the already pretty darn good ones we should have by then.


    The only 'now' players that we should spend [actual] 50m or more are players like Griezmann, Neymar, Hazard, Mbappe, Eriksen, De Bruyne, Kroos, Milinkovic-Savic, Isco, Insigne, Bernardo Silva, James Rodriguez, Pogba etc.

    And out of these, the ones that could be had for somewhere between 50 (or less) and 80m - which one can assume is the maximum figure Inter/Suning will be willing to spend to make some noise in the market - fairly limited between Kroos, SMS, Insigne(if he wants to leave Napoli) and James. Isco is borderline with Real probably demanding 70-90m.

    So essentially I'd rather get Barella, try to secure Tonali if possible for the year after, look to sign either Kroos or SMS and then for the LW or RW spot seek the typical Inter recipe for loan + option, perhaps adding a pending obligation [if we reach CL and said players features in 25 games etc] since we won't be restricted by FFP but only by cash flow. That's assuming we can get rid of half our central midfielders who are not up to Inter standards. That's our biggest weakness and we do not need to waste 60m on an unproven (I hate to use that word, but it's accurate here) winger from a league that doesn't suit the Italian style and no one gives them the Inter treatment of parking the bus for the majority of the game. We could welcome such players for the Atalanta games that we have failed at of course.

    Look at Justin Kluivert at Roma. No one denies the talent, no one can say that Roma has been misusing him or that they don't like youngsters (they use Zanilo and Under all the time) and no one can say that he was in any way inferior to Bergwijn or other talented wingers from Eredivisie. And he even grew up in a home of a top professional player who's played at the last great Ajax team, Milan and Barcelona so we could assume that he was mentally more prepared for a big move than others. Someone else may say that's added pressure, but let's leave it up for debate. We could compare them season by season, age by age, either way those two are very comparable. And Justin Kluivert who also carries a name value (which matters in the transfer valuations despite its lack of logic) was sold to Roma for less than 20m and Roma was hoping to use him as a starter but El Sharaawy is better. And Perotti remains a choice. With the hype he got you would think he'd get a 40m transfer and be an instant starter anywhere he went. Reality says otherwise. And yes, he's still young, but Roma spent all that money now and they could have used it elsewhere for an immediate upgrade. They may regret this choice as they might miss out on the CL and they might also get frustrated by him and just send him off to some midtable Spanish or English club for less than they paid for. Or he could have a breakout year next season, but problem is they wanted him to have the breakout year this season. Which is even less of a hurry than we'll be in with our potential summer transfers.


    P.S: A lot of you seem to have the impression that the option after a loan is some sort of market valuation. It's not. The option is there as leverage and it's very rare for teams to exercise said option. If they want the player, they will seek to lowball the parent club and use the player's will in their favour. If they're lucky, their parent club is not Barcelona.

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    might be Deadpool wera's Avatar
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    I believe James would not work out here. German league, the football is played faster, he's just a perfect fit there.


    As far the 'now' players is concerned, I believe Lautaro wasn't a 'now' buy, but he performs better than most expected. It's also about circumstance and playing in the right system to reap the advantages. Bergwijn WILL MOST DEFINITELY perform better than Perišić is right now. You want a winger than can beat his man and then picks the right pass. That's who you want then. And he will get better, just like Lautaro will, if he keeps getting the minutes (and if the club won't be a total circus).
    Quote Originally Posted by wera View Post
    if Mauro doesn't leave this summer, I'm moving to Forza Wolverhampton Forums until he does
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    If Icardi is ever sold for 110m euros i'll stop watching football and promote Pimp to moderator.

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    Lautaro was a $18 + 7m transfer and was given the #10. He was not a 'now' player as he wasn't world class. But he came for the first team, just not to be an instant starter. Just to clarify, 'now' means WIN NOW. World class players or players of a very high quality that will elevate our team. The unproven kids cannot guarantee that. There is a huge risk factor and we have a terrible track record.


    Bergwijn performing better than Perisic is first of all your subjective opinion and one that does not need to spend 40-60m to prove right or wrong. He probably is going to perform better than him, but how much better? And how many other players out there could also do that? What would their cost be? What can the difference in price get us for other needs we have?

    I don't only want a winger who can beat his [Eredivisie] man and pick the right pass [for his championship contending teammates against iffy Eredivise defences]. I want a player who is ready to play for Inter. Bergwijn is a grea prospect and can be a world class player in 3-5 years. Inter cannot give him that environment so he's a big risk. And if we're gonna spend 40m on someone to be our Kondogbia winger we should already forget about it.

    I don't see many people being happy with Politano who's an upgrade over Candreva. People want more. Let's get the 'more' before we drain ourselves with the 'a little better than before'. Because climbing slowly may mean that you make a bad slip and fall 3 levels below [see 2016-17 window]. Just as Joao Mario was a supposed to be an upgrade over Kondogbia, Barbosa was supposed to be ready, Candreva was supposed to be more consistent than Ljajic etc. Then 2017-18 came along with lots of the same mistakes.

    We need to make smart transfers and spending hype money on hyped kids is the exact opposite of that.

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  12. #2688
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    Quote Originally Posted by brehme1989 View Post
    The only 'now' players that we should spend [actual] 50m or more are players like Griezmann, Neymar, Hazard, Mbappe, Eriksen, De Bruyne, Kroos, Milinkovic-Savic, Isco, Insigne, Bernardo Silva, James Rodriguez, Pogba etc.
    Brehme, thats a sensible post. There is a lot I agree with, though I guess our basic disagreement comes on the size of the above list of yours for 50m+ (for me, that list is much much longer). Most players on that list are 100m+ players these days. I would love to see a De Bruyne, Hazard, Mbappe, Neymar or even a Mane at Inter, but at the moment that is unrealistic. So we both agree that Inter cannot afford top class "NOW" players.

    I guess my argument is to get the talents who have shown clear potential to reach that level or close to that level. Sometimes you can tell at 90% certainty that a young player will become a quality player... for e.g., even after watching just 5-6 games of Moise Kean, I'm fairly certain he will become a top quality player worthy of starting for a club like Inter. It was the same with Pogba at Juve. Some kids are so talented and have a good attitude that you can just tell. Its not 100%, nothing is, but say 90% surety.

    But I am not saying lets go after a 18 year old with potential. I want a bit more surety - young players who have shown great talent AND have at least 2 seasons of good performances. I rather Inter invest on such talented young players even if it is costly (40m-60m per player), than buy average "NOW" players like Politano or Vecino who are cheaper (20m-30m). For example, I much rather have a Lautaro Martinez in our squad (who is not ready NOW) than have Eder (average "NOW"). However, the players I want Inter to aim for are a year or two ahead of Martinez in development.

    For e.g., IMO Lozano, Neres, Pepe and Chiesa are such players. They are already better than our current starters, and they are close to becoming top class "NOW", maybe a year or two away. The Kluivert comparison is not a good one, he was a 18 yr old with 1 decent season. These 4 players are 21-23 years old, all have had 2 consecutive good seasons behind them and are far more ready for a bigger club than baby Kluivert. Here are their last 2 seasons stats:

    - Lozano, 23 yrs: 21 goals and 10 assists this season, 19 goals and 11 assists last season
    - Neres, 22 yrs: 12 goals & 15 assists this season, 15 goals and 14 assists last season
    - Pepe, 23 yrs: 19 goals & 12 assists this season, 14 goals and 5 assists last season
    - Chiesa, 21 yrs: 12 goals & 7 assists this season, 6 goals and 9 assists last season

    And stats only tell half the story, when you see them play you can see the talent and the growth. For example, even Politano had decent stats for 1 season but you can see Lozano plays at another level despite being younger and Chiesa has better decision making already despite being 4 years younger.

    4-5 years ago, players like these would have cost 15m-25m. Nowadays, its gonna be 50m-60m. Thats market reality. But this is my rational for going after these players - they will improve us immediately (which is not a high benchmark) and more importantly in a couple of years they can become top class "NOW" players. Right in time when we should be ready to challenge Juve.
    Last edited by Bluenine; 12 Apr 19 at 20:33.

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  14. #2689
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    Very wise words by brehme. The valuations of young prospects have gone through the roof and we shouldn't bend ourselves to those valuations.
    Last edited by CafeCordoba; 12 Apr 19 at 20:55.

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    I didn't say that we could get Griezmann etc with 50m, I just said that if we're going to go over that limit (our very own transfer record is not there yet), it has to be for that kind of player. I mentioned below who those could be from that list.

    As for the incorrect Kluivert comparison, you're missing the point where Kluivert would have the same and improved production if he remained at Ajax for the next year. And he'd still be the same player if Roma bought him next season instead of this one. It'd still be a gamble and he'd still wipe El Shaarawy's shoes before getting on the pitch.

    You're also claiming that these players would improve us. Well, if we had 500m and we'd spend 120m on two of them, maybe yes, they'd be part of an improvement. But if we're gonna have 150m including any sales and we waste 100m on these players that leaves no room for the real problem of the team which is the midfield. And by your 50-60m logic, we can barely afford anyone there whereas we'll need at least 2 quality central midfielders if we're gonna keep the 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 style which is why you're asking for wingers. So you're asking us to spend 33% of our budget on one of these players, without knowing if they're really going to end up being top class, without showing that they can cope at an environment such as Inter's and by spending a club record transfer fee which will add even more pressure... I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this as anything else than a recipe for disaster for both Inter and the unlucky kid that we'll spend so much money on and tell him you're going to have to be our leader because our wallet said so.

    That's not how you build a team.

    You want to improve this team? Sign 2 top class players and patch things up with the rest if the budget is limited and try not to sell any important players. We want to get rid of Icardi who will be a great asset for any team and replace him with 2-3 kids that cannot even guarantee that that they'd be starting at Inter? Because let's be real, whether Perisic performs well or not, there aren't many coaches out there who would bench him for most of these kids you're asking for. And I know he's going to be sold, but most coaches aren't stupid and we're probably not even upgrading there but replacing one headache for a big gamble we shouldn't be in a position to make as this is what got us here in the first place with Jaoo Mario, Barbosa etc forcing that stupid agreement where cannot register half our midfield and get eliminated from the CL (and even the EL later on) because we had no players to use, while the whole locker room became toxic as a direct consequence or as a catalytical effect.

    Say we spend 60m on Nicolas Pepe and he's just another Gervinho. He's okay-ish for a top 4 team but no world beater and doesn't really add much. What then? Loan him out with options at 40m just to avoid a loss? Give him the Joao Mario treatment and hope he becomes 'acceptable' as a freakishly expensive rotation player?

    What happens when this 50m transfer fails? It's not like getting a world class player where you can call it bad luck or bad timing. This is a prospect that's just not as good as you hoped. Just like Ricky Alvarez wasn't, or Alvaro Pereira, or Gabriel Barbosa. All of these were very good before we signed them, all of them had some hype around them... Something failed and in the first two cases the damage was big in terms of results as they were simply sub-par, whilst with Barbosa we mostly suffered economically.

    But what really happens then? Is this the way to go forward? By taking high risk, low reward chances? I'm more of a low risk, high reward kind of person...

  16. #2691
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    Low risk high reward?

    Or low risk low reward with occasional bonus?

    How many here are billionaires? Investment strategists? Investment coaches? I am neither, but some concepts here sound like we are living in lala land.

    And Ricky costed us 13mil euros. This was more or less equivalent to what we paid for Kovacic and Brozovic. Some deals work out, some deals don't. Even low risk acquisition has some probability of failing, and I definitely don't count Ricky as higher risk than the latter two.

    The problem is increased price.

    Even the likes of Candreva and Nainggolan were more or less align with the strategic decision of experienced players, but at that price for that sort of longetivity of the deal, the risk proportionally increases despite them being the "world class" or close to "world class" quality people here look for.

    I know people here are going to laugh when I mentioned Candreva in the same sentence as world class, but look at those Candreva forums, that was exactly what people were saying.
    Wallace

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  18. #2692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace View Post
    Low risk high reward?

    Or low risk low reward with occasional bonus?

    How many here are billionaires? Investment strategists? Investment coaches? I am neither, but some concepts here sound like we are living in lala land.

    And Ricky costed us 13mil euros. This was more or less equivalent to what we paid for Kovacic and Brozovic. Some deals work out, some deals don't. Even low risk acquisition has some probability of failing, and I definitely don't count Ricky as higher risk than the latter two.

    The problem is increased price.

    Even the likes of Candreva and Nainggolan were more or less align with the strategic decision of experienced players, but at that price for that sort of longetivity of the deal, the risk proportionally increases despite them being the "world class" or close to "world class" quality people here look for.

    I know people here are going to laugh when I mentioned Candreva in the same sentence as world class, but look at those Candreva forums, that was exactly what people were saying.
    Where the fuck have you been? Everyone here is billionaires.
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    Thats why we got the chinese involved. The only people better at profiting from corruption than Chinese business men are Russian business men
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    The difference between hazard and candreva is bigger than the difference between candreva and me, and i dont even play football

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  20. #2693
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace View Post
    Low risk high reward?

    Or low risk low reward with occasional bonus?
    Football transfers is not a standard investment that you can apply these things to in the standard way. Risk is not only correlated with the cost but with the underlying quality of the player you're signing and it's relative. Return and output is not correlated with transfer fees, so thinking that there's only a high risk, high reward kind of situation is not only wrong, but it is also naive. Spending 60m on a player you can sign for 40m does not increase his chances of being a better player in the long run.

    If you want to improve your team with Houssine Kharja, there's a higher risk involved than wanting to improve your team with Wesley Sneijder when it comes to reaching your goals.

    If you can get Brandt for 25m and the alternative with the same funds is someone like Candreva, you can see why the first one would apply as a low risk/high reward transfer while the latter would fall under the high risk/low reward category. So you see that there's a high risk that you spent too much money on a player who's never going to be an important player for where Inter wants to go.

    In an ideal world, what you spend is also what you get, so risk:reward is correlated. But it's not. You pay 40m for Joao Mario when in fact you know he's not a midfield leader and cannot shoot. That's just not a smart transfer and expecting it to be a 'high reward' deal just because you spent too much money on him is plain stupid. PSG is the only team that pulls off high risk, high reward deals with Neymar and Mbappe and in an ideal world they'd be punished by UEFA for that practice, so since they're sort of cheating FFP there's not really much risk involved for them either.

    The only place where you could apply the normal risk-reward spectrum in football economics is the players' salaries as opposed to the team's turnover. A subject which I haven't touched here. Transfer fees on the other hand are a different animal. Everyone seems to be splashing out millions for them which they don't have.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenine View Post
    Brehme, thats a sensible post. There is a lot I agree with, though I guess our basic disagreement comes on the size of the above list of yours for 50m+ (for me, that list is much much longer). Most players on that list are 100m+ players these days. I would love to see a De Bruyne, Hazard, Mbappe, Neymar or even a Mane at Inter, but at the moment that is unrealistic. So we both agree that Inter cannot afford top class "NOW" players.

    I guess my argument is to get the talents who have shown clear potential to reach that level or close to that level. Sometimes you can tell at 90% certainty that a young player will become a quality player... for e.g., even after watching just 5-6 games of Moise Kean, I'm fairly certain he will become a top quality player worthy of starting for a club like Inter. It was the same with Pogba at Juve. Some kids are so talented and have a good attitude that you can just tell. Its not 100%, nothing is, but say 90% surety.

    But I am not saying lets go after a 18 year old with potential. I want a bit more surety - young players who have shown great talent AND have at least 2 seasons of good performances. I rather Inter invest on such talented young players even if it is costly (40m-60m per player), than buy average "NOW" players like Politano or Vecino who are cheaper (20m-30m). For example, I much rather have a Lautaro Martinez in our squad (who is not ready NOW) than have Eder (average "NOW"). However, the players I want Inter to aim for are a year or two ahead of Martinez in development.

    For e.g., IMO Lozano, Neres, Pepe and Chiesa are such players. They are already better than our current starters, and they are close to becoming top class "NOW", maybe a year or two away. The Kluivert comparison is not a good one, he was a 18 yr old with 1 decent season. These 4 players are 21-23 years old, all have had 2 consecutive good seasons behind them and are far more ready for a bigger club than baby Kluivert. Here are their last 2 seasons stats:

    - Lozano, 23 yrs: 21 goals and 10 assists this season, 19 goals and 11 assists last season
    - Neres, 22 yrs: 12 goals & 15 assists this season, 15 goals and 14 assists last season
    - Pepe, 23 yrs: 19 goals & 12 assists this season, 14 goals and 5 assists last season
    - Chiesa, 21 yrs: 12 goals & 7 assists this season, 6 goals and 9 assists last season

    And stats only tell half the story, when you see them play you can see the talent and the growth. For example, even Politano had decent stats for 1 season but you can see Lozano plays at another level despite being younger and Chiesa has better decision making already despite being 4 years younger.

    4-5 years ago, players like these would have cost 15m-25m. Nowadays, its gonna be 50m-60m. Thats market reality. But this is my rational for going after these players - they will improve us immediately (which is not a high benchmark) and more importantly in a couple of years they can become top class "NOW" players. Right in time when we should be ready to challenge Juve.
    Agre 100% with your post.
    I would like to add something. It depends not only on players. There are only a few of them, when you can say this kid will be world class, no matter where he plays. The vast majority of them need to be in the right environment and circumstances to develop. The developer (club, coach) plays an essential role.
    Look at our former players Kova and Coutinho. If it would have been otherwise maybe their trajectories would have been different.
    But the most impressive comparison is between Renato Sanches and Ruben Neves. The same generation, both hyped as next world-class. Two different trajectories and different results.

    I know we have bad record at developing players. But it's not the fate is the incompetence. Developing players is a skill and we need to fucking learn it. I am afraid if we don't learn it, we won't see another "La grande Inter"!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeCordoba View Post
    Very wise words by brehme. The valuations of young prospects have gone through the roof and we shouldn't bend ourselves to those valuations.
    Good luck then for buying huge wages and zero motivation to win anything other than money of course. Nainngolan mistake with his long contract should never be repeated again.

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    Exclusive: Inter preparing Tonali offer to snatch him from under Juve's nose

    Sandro Tonali is one of the brightest talents of Italian football, with many top clubs interested in his services. The most serious suitors are Juventus and InterMilan, who are set to duel for the Brescia starlet in the coming months.

    Nerazzurri scouts appreciate the midfielder greatly and have been following him closely for some time. Marotta and Ausilio are ready to enter the scene but they know very well that Juventus have been in the front row for some time and already in negotiations with the agent of the player and Brescia to bring him to Turin and send him on loan somewhere in Italy.

    Marotta's strategy for Inter's first offer will be different. He will rely on good relations with President Cellino, which have been stable for years now. The Nerazzurri CEO wants to start negotiations with a purchase formula as early as next summer, with Tonali booked by Inter but left for a year on loan at Brescia in the event of Serie A promotion.

    A way to not immediately move the player from his environment, giving him a year of settling in Serie A and then bring him to the San Siro the following season. Thus, Inter will be included in this decidedly open race. Roma without Monchi at helm lost their position and Juventus insist on avoiding surprises.

    The Bianconeri will try to convince Cellino, who is asking 35-40 million for his jewel. Juve would like to add some young players in the potential deal or add a percentage on Tonali's resale. It will not be easy, Inter have their ideas and will propose them to Brescia. Juve are in the front row but Ausilio and Marotta are increasingly active.
    https://www.calciomercato.com/en/new...m-under--57569
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  26. Thanks (1): MVD

  27. #2698

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    73
    there was also a f-italia staff report on us eyeing Granit Xhaka as Brozovic's bodyguard on the pitch

  28. #2699

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    What about barella?, are we completely stop chasing him?

  29. #2700
    morepoststhanu JJM's Avatar
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    icardiscores

    Slovenia

    91 Forum Supporter 10 years of FIF Most Optimistic Member Most Passionate Member
    Barella-Birsa over at Cagliari have more creativity link up chem than any of our shittarded players... How are we 3rd is a real mistery to me tbh. Oh yeah rock solid defence mostly... Handa miracles

    Sent from my BLA-L29 using Tapatalk

  30. Thanks (2): MVD, Pravesh

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