Right, fine, my bad, semantics and all that.Originally Posted by brehme1989
Right, fine, my bad, semantics and all that.
Inter Banter Era; 2011-2018
Agree, it feels like their hate against rube prevails their sympathy to Inter.
There's nothing prevailing... What we have here is people who think that liking Inter and disliking Juventus are mutually exclusive. What you need to do is educate yourselves about the club you profess to support rather than engage in idiotic remarks such as "Don Antonio god" and other bullshit like that for a guy who has caused actual depression to many Inter fans for over a decade....
Fuck Antonio Conte and the moron that brought him here!
Forza Paolo Montero is the next thing I expect to see from "plastics" like Kurt... It'd be a step below from praising fucking Conte 50 times a day!
<<Gli scudetti è giusto vincerli sul campo>> Antonio Conte on Calciopoli
#ConteOut
Never would I ever let myself call someone God except for the God himself. I specifically noted this because you put the phrase in quotation marks as thoigh it belonged to me.
You too educate yourself that the ones who call themselves interista, especially the one you support more than Inter were actually harming the club.
So I've been doing some surface-level research, and here are some findings...
We played 82 games in Serie A + Champions League with Spalletti. Inter held a 2nd half lead in 48 of those games. Now, that's a gross number, which means it includes a 5-0 win over Chievo in the same way that it includes a 1-0 win, with the exception of four games in the 2018-'19 season where a winning goal was scored in stoppage time (1-0 wins at Samp and vs. Milan and Napoli as well as the comeback 2-1 win vs. Tottenham). In total, under Spalletti, Inter lost 19 points from games where they led in the 2nd half. Only one of those games - 2018 vs. Juve - went from a 2nd half lead and ended in a loss.
We've played 67 games with Conte in these two competitions (38 + 12 + 17). We've held a 2nd half lead in 46 of those games. We've lost 32 points from winning positions in the 2nd half, and we've lost four games from those positions - away to Barcelona and Dortmund in the CL, and away to Lazio and home to Bologna last season.
So, while we've held more second half leads under Conte on a proportional basis, we've also lost several more points in fewer opportunities than we did with Spalletti as the manager. All of this, mind you, with what is supposed to be a deeper, more talented squad, and with higher expectations.
For pro-Conte people here - and I mean this sincerely and without snark or condescension - how do you defend these numbers?
Post that on /r/FCInterMilan so those dumbasses there can learn something.
See thank you for admitting that you cannot have a reasonable conversation about our manager because you cannot and will not forget about his association with the thieves. The minute he became our manager meant he became our first supporter therefore I couldn’t give a fuck about his past. Whichever manager it is that ends those cunts dominance and most importantly gives us our first trophy will go down in OUR history whether you like it or not.
Unless Conte can fluke his way to the Coppa this season, it won't be him
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Unless Conte can fluke his way to the Coppa this season, it won't be him
Well done, interesting stats to say the least.
This is clearly a problem for us and for Conte. He doesn't seem to have a good game plan, specially when we lead after the first half (or take the lead). This should be really even easier since you have the half-time to prep for the second half. "Let's do this to keep the lead" / "let's do this and if we take the lead, let's to this".
His game-management seems to be lacking a lot. Which we have witnessed many times with his late and/or lackluster subs.
We cannot switch to defending, we just can't do it. If we're compact and tight for the whole match, it works better. But when we try to do the switch, it's just fucking awful. Barcelona, Dortmund as perfect examples from last season. Now this Roma match was another one. We run over them in the second half but then Conte just decided to shit his pants and replaced Toro with Perisic and went Vidal went down, defaulted to fucking Gagliardini. There died everything in our game and we couldn't do anything offensive anymore.
The next time my wife begs me to stop drunkenly beating our son with a belt I will tell her, "he is panicking, there's no need to stay back."
**I move away from the mic to breathe in
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah just come up with some jackshit of a statistics to put it up against the coach. Did you also compare how many points we lost playing vs small teams? Losses of points in a row? Did you take injuries into account? Especially of the key players? Did you consider the wrong calls by referees that led to losing points?
Today I learned losing games to small teams, injuries to key players and refereeing mistakes didn't exist until Conte became our coach.
You do realize that many lost points under Spalletti came from awful officiating, right?
We do not have bad officiating these days.
Juventys derby with Pjanic killing Rafinha, Fiorentina away game with Abisso fucking it up hard, Sampdoria away game (we managed a late win), Parma game with the Dimarco stunner, Sassuolo season opener away, Barcelona game refereeing in both home and away fixtures and several other examples.
Want to talk injuries? Really? Spalletti had a 12-14 man roster, Conte has 17-18 players. And he also gets to use more subs for half his games with us, got to play one and dones in Europe..
Spalletti had to use an injured Nainggolan because his only alternative was Borja Valero who couldn't play 90 minutes for more than once a month!
The target of the team was not the same.
The budget of the team was not the same.
The environment of the team was not the same (hostilities between Marotta and Spalletti for 6 months and the fucked up situation of in between with the Spalletti vs Icardi crusades).
You think that Spalletti would have choked from this CL group? You think he'd fuck up a 400m expenditure on this level in Europe and that he couldn't compete in Italy when freaking Pioli is top of the league with his brigade of Pretenders?
Please show us how the jackshit of a statistic that Kramerica posted can be debunked. Who were our injured key players and when did the refs cost us points?
<<Gli scudetti è giusto vincerli sul campo>> Antonio Conte on Calciopoli
#ConteOut
Man is this thread..... interesting?
Just watching that one specific highlight where Conte tries to get between our players and the ref for that infamous penalty makes my chest boil knowing that fuckin cunt is our bloody coach. It might not be reasonable, happened ages ago, wasn't even there myself but it still bothers me.
You're asking for it:
<<Gli scudetti è giusto vincerli sul campo>> Antonio Conte on Calciopoli
#ConteOut
Couldn't agree more with your post; and herein lies imo our main issue: we simply lack balance!
Ours is a team that creates many chances per game, even when playing overall bad, having slow build-up pay, or being a man down (see second game against Real). This is the difference compared to the Mancini and Spalletti eras. Whether it is due to having a better squad or to a better game-plan and execution is irrelevant for me. Probably it is a bit of both. And the coach deserves some praise for this.
At the same time however, compared to the previous eras, the defensive phase of our game seems to be at an all-time low. We concede left and right, from counterattacks (mostly), from corner kicks, from inexistent chances, from lucky deflections, or from elaborate build-up plays by the opponent. It seems to be somewhat better when we start by defending deep, as Cafe mentioned, because we allow less room for counter-attacks and manage to keep a more balanced defensive shape (first half against Napoli comes to mind); however, even so, I still have the feeling that we are constantly shaky when in the defensive phase. And if I can feel it in the front of the TV, surely our opponents can as well, and would want to capitalize on it (see final 20 mins against Roma).
I do not have sufficient football knowledge to say why it is so- because we attack with more men, because we use a system or tactical approach that is inherently imbalanced and does not allow for controlling the midfield, or because of a mentality issue. But I do not believe that you can win important titles in modern football with such a lacking defensive game. This is up to the coach to solve.
Following Inter since the mid-2000s, I am aware of the dangers of firing a coach too soon. IMO if you hire a coach, you should give him (generally) about one year and a half or two years to implement his ideas. But at the same time, I think it is reasonable to expect if not titles, then at least a steady growth from a footballing perspective. Especially when you have a high profile coach and sporting director; and one of the strongest squads in Italy, perhaps even in the world. So even though unlike many people here I sympathize with Conte and Marotta due to their work ethic and apparent hunger for results; failing to win the title or at least fight for it till the end in the favorable context of this season would be a huge let down. One that should result in management changes, imo. I'm sorry , but with this squad, we could have very well fought for a Champions League spot under Spalletti or Mancini as well. I expect more from a 12 million/year coach, with full support and well into the second year of his spell.
This means that they have to find some solutions to our defensive ineptitude and lack of balance soon- time is of the essence given the schedule we have in the next few weeks. I honestly hope they will find some. Forza Inter- always!
My rationale for looking that up was pretty simple. I've talked a lot about our 2nd half collapses under Conte, so I wanted to see how things were under our direct predecessor. The logic for this mostly dealt with two factors - that we had a lot of the same players under both managers, and that he was the manager who had the highest expectations on his team compared to some of the other recent managers. I didn't know what his numbers were going to be when I looked into it, but my main goal was to make sure that I applied a consistent standard for the sake of fairness. If that meant including games where we got absolutely screwed by refereeing decisions, then so be it. Have we gotten the short end of calls this season? Yes, but also a lot of those calls came in games that didn't fall under the scope of my research. For instance, if you think we got the short end of some decisions against, say, Milan, Shakhtar, or Parma, well, none of those games saw a second half lead, so they don't change anything. Further, as Brehme points out, it's not like the same problems didn't befall Spalletti at times. D'Ambrosio's handball against Fiorentina? Spalletti. Brehme alluded to others including this one so I won't rehash more of what he said. In any case, I would suggest that's something that evens itself out over time.
Now there's one thing you mention that is a bit interesting, sure - about losses of points in a row. I think we all remember well that long winless run in 2017-'18, a run that included two late draws from stoppage time equalizers. Do you remember a 1-5-2 run we had recently? Now, sure, maybe some of that can be ascribed to quality of competition, but it also included draws to Lazio, Gladbach, and Atalanta, all games where Inter had a second half lead. The Lazio game included 17 minutes playing 11v10 and went nowhere. Lukaku had to rescue a point against Gladbach. One of Conte's specifically requested players fucked us upwards, downwards, and sideaways in the home game against Real. The point being, long runs of underperformance isn't something has entirely gone away. We had one with Spalletti, we had one with Pioli, we had one with De Boer, we had one with Mancini...we're Inter. We allow this shit to happen to us.
In any case, comparisons across the board based on your questions are hard to make - they can be done, sure - because a lot of that is reflected by the quality of the team and the expectations of the time. Spalletti's point totals were 72 and 69. Conte's was 82 last season and will probably exceed 72 again this season as well, I understand. But a) if Conte has a better and deeper team, you wouldn't expect the team to have gotten worse at defending second half leads, because that doesn't make sense. Deeper team = better substitutions in terms of player quality. And, again, there's a lot of player overlap with the two managers. Did our players collective mentality become even more cowardly with Conte than it was with Spalletti?
I can't speak for others, but I don't get any satisfaction out of tearing Conte down, ridiculing him, calling him a coward, etc. I only want what's best for this g-d forsaken football club. When we're leaking points constantly in the second halves of games, that only derails our objectives. Those leaked points are why we didn't make the CL knockouts last season. If you even just hold on for a 2-2 draw in Dortmund, then Inter would've advanced even before playing Barcelona in the final game, because they would've been +3 on Dortmund with the tiebreaker already clinched. But, instead, we completely collapsed. If the 18 points lost from last season were, I dunno, a more manageable 9 instead, we might've won the Scudetto. But we couldn't stop fucking throwing away points in the second half of the season. Lecce, Cagliari, Bologna, Verona...take your fucking pick, you know? We're paying this guy €12M a season to figure things out and, despite that, one enormous problem has opened up that not only has he not figured out a solution for, but it's a problem that was not as severe under a previous manager with a weaker squad. And that fucking bothers me.
Kramerica, the stats are fine, but you miss that under Spalletti we were playing quite defensive football and struggled a lot to create any chances at all. Therefore, it's normal to have better stats when Inter had a lead in those games, regardless of second or first half. Main problem with Conte is the lack of balance as Rain mentioned. Last season Inter was good in the first half and crumbled in the second and now is exactly the opposite. Even if we are playing bad, we still somehow create chances or score goals but cannot "kill" the games. And for me it's partly because of Conte's style of play. We struggle to play possession football when it is required to do it and this is mainly because of our midfielders. Apart from Sensi, almost all of them have difficulties to past over an opponent or to keep the ball under pressure. That is why when we have the lead and the other team start to pressure us hard we cannot hold the ball for a long period. So, our only option is to continue that way, hoping to outscore the opponent at the end.
I understand the optimism Conte may have brought with his initial signing coming off the back of a few seasons , let's just were meh.
However surely after a season and an half you guys must realise he clearly is not the man for the job , especially as we are paying him top dollar, The Return on investment so far has been poor.
I hope the owners /management seriously consider who will coaching our team next season , preparation needs to commence soon
I don'y think we are in situation to fire him with his salary and players who are here for his style of play.
... “Every time I see Walter Mazzarri’s Press conferences I have this doubt: Is he really such an idiot or does he just think we all are?”
Parma team manager Sandro Melli
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