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Thread: 2020/2021 Midfielders Rumours Thread

  1. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHM1605 View Post
    Barca could do that because academy is great, if not the best. We Inter fans hyped our Primavera a lot but any of them have a decent career anywhere, let alone Inter?

    If we are aiming for titles and starting with Fiorentina (Biraghi), Sassuolo (Duncan), Verona (Faraoni) or Serie B players, we are doing seriously wrong (am I missing someone?!?). Looking from hindsight, the probability that Dimarco or Agoume going downhill are higher than becoming core players for big teams. See Pinamonti, Vanheusden, Puscas, Bonazzoli trend. It isnt worth the cost of “developing”, in terms of points lost, if you can pay some millions and get already better players.
    Completely true, but with all the money/time we are already investing in our youth we should be able to get decent players. The fact we are getting players who are at most good enough for clubs like you mentioned means we are doing something wrong.

    The problem I have with only getting players is that it isn't sustainable for a club. Like now with the corona virus and ownership problems we may have a second summer of us not buying players. ( I know we bought Hakimi but you get what I mean). It would be great to be able to promote youth players to the first team. I know I'm romantic about this and probably supporting the wrong club for this but in the long run it will be beneficial for the club. We have dozens of ''Inter schools'' around the world spending quite a lot on youth Academy and players but without any idea it seems.

    And of course the mentality at the top clubs is different because the only thing that is important is to win. That's why the only clubs who are doing this will never win anything in Europe but that's more because they are smaller clubs where the good players will leave after 1 good year. So if you are already a top team like Inter it should be ''easier'' to get good young players and integrate them in the team because they are surrounded by world class players and are already the best in their age.

    IF and it's a big if Koeman will win the La Liga with this Barcelona team full of young players it's shows that it is possible. (I know it's a big IF and you could argue that Real is bad this year and that Koeman is only playing the youngsters because of the money problems but still).

    Quote Originally Posted by wera View Post
    Barca are focusing on the future because they spent too much on players they didn't need.
    That's true but they also have a coach who is not afraid to use youth players. The club wanted to loan out Pedri but Koeman wanted him with the first team for example.


    But I think it's easy to say this on a forum while playing FM than do it in real life when your job is on the line and you getting paid to win and not to develop young players.

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  3. #1042
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHM1605 View Post
    Barca could do that because academy is great, if not the best. We Inter fans hyped our Primavera a lot but any of them have a decent career anywhere, let alone Inter?

    If we are aiming for titles and starting with Fiorentina (Biraghi), Sassuolo (Duncan), Verona (Faraoni) or Serie B players, we are doing seriously wrong (am I missing someone?!?). Looking from hindsight, the probability that Dimarco or Agoume going downhill are higher than becoming core players for big teams. See Pinamonti, Vanheusden, Puscas, Bonazzoli trend. It isnt worth the cost of “developing”, in terms of points lost, if you can pay some millions and get already better players.
    I don't think Vanheusden belongs in the same category with the others. I know it's only the Belgian league but he has been one of the best cb of the league and he already had an offer from Arsenal in 2019. I would say that's more than decent at the age of 21. The only issue with him is his injuries.

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    With new ownership budget and a recovered Marotta we can look at this guy
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  7. #1044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Drago View Post
    I don't think Vanheusden belongs in the same category with the others. I know it's only the Belgian league but he has been one of the best cb of the league and he already had an offer from Arsenal in 2019. I would say that's more than decent at the age of 21. The only issue with him is his injuries.
    Vanheusden was very good before the injury, I agree, but now he is basically a Giuseppe Rossi without reaching the peak, sadly. He won't become anything significant in football.

    He has the skills, but lack injury avoidance awareness, which is equally important. Look at two examples with the same amount of talent, I assume, Barella and Sensi. Barella has been chopped down left and right, but he knows when to buy fouls, when to fall instead of standing on his feet, when to be aggressive. Sensi, on the other hand, doesn't have that instinct. He gets injured too often and becomes too timid and scared of challenges.

    My point is, mentality is not easily visible like football skills. Some have the right one, some don't, also a "risk" in developing youngsters. I could spend those 20m on a finished product like Milenkovic for example, and I am sure that he will never be injured and contribute more than Vanheusden.

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  9. #1045
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHM1605 View Post
    Barca could do that because academy is great, if not the best. We Inter fans hyped our Primavera a lot but any of them have a decent career anywhere, let alone Inter?

    If we are aiming for titles and starting with Fiorentina (Biraghi), Sassuolo (Duncan), Verona (Faraoni) or Serie B players, we are doing seriously wrong (am I missing someone?!?). Looking from hindsight, the probability that Dimarco or Agoume going downhill are higher than becoming core players for big teams. See Pinamonti, Vanheusden, Puscas, Bonazzoli trend. It isnt worth the cost of “developing”, in terms of points lost, if you can pay some millions and get already better players.
    The problem you have here is that you have a problematic, finished product and assume that this would have been the projection. In some cases, you'd be right, some of these guys just aren't good enough.

    But kids tend to improve a lot when given games and responsibilities earlier in their career, but not a la carte. This needs to be done paired with world class players. 10+ years ago we failed here. When Santon was playing initially as an 18 year old in the 'wrong' position, versus top competition (Cristiano Ronaldo etc), he was solid and promising. But he won't suddenly become Lahm.
    If we still had and played Bonucci in 2013, he'd be playing for Frosinone now. But to his credit, he worked to reach a very good level, in a role he was very comfortable in. He's usually exposed when he's in uncomfortable territory, it's not like he suddenly became the carbon copy of Gaetano Scirea! But in a team that's strong enough to hide his weaknesses, he thrived.

    There's a reason why players like Mohamed Kallon, Giovanni Pasquale, Obafemi Martins, Mario Balotelli were able to be part of the main team and sometimes have an influence. And even kids with cameos like Marco Andreolli, Alen Stevanovic or Rene Khrin were able to be part of the squad and not affect our overall quality and even contributed indirectly at points. Even players like Miangue, Gnoukouri, Duncan, Obi etc in a shitstorm weren't really that bad and perhaps one of them under better circumstances could have filled a role in a contending team.

    Real Madrid and Barcelona are on a different level because Spanish players in the last 2 generations tend to be vastly superior to Italian ones. Italian talent is also more spread out (there's Atalanta, Roma, Fiorentina, Torino, Milan, Juventus, Sassuolo produce good players and several other teams that produce 1-2 decent players a season) whereas in Spain there's Real Madrid, Barcelona, followed by Valencia and Athletic Bilbao really who aren't having the best of times actually. The rest produce decent talent of course, but nowhere near the levels of Real Madrid and Barcelona.

    But it's easy to play with scrubs like Francisco Pavon, Raul Bravo and Ruben De La Red, when you pair them with great local players like Fernando Hierro, Iker Cassillas, Ivan Helguera, Raul and add to them top players like Zinedine Zidane, Luis Figo, Roberto Carlos etc.

    You see Manchester City playing with guys like Delph, Zinchenko, Mangala and still managing to win the league because the rest of their team is too good.

    We live in an era where football transfers are more common than anything else, you cannot build your team around Primavera kids. Not even Real Madrid can do that when in fact they're possibly the only team in Europe who could bring up a competitive team with exclusively club grown talent. You can sign as many European players as you want now and teams are very militant there, top/wealthy teams buy everything that breathes. You fall behind if you try to play with kids. Look at Milan for example who tried to play with a bunch of their recent Primavera classes. Not good enough. Now they signed a couple of decent players on top of that and are having a honeymoon season, it probably won't last, not with Zlatan leaving eventually before they resurrect themselves.


    If the question is if we could use a few Primavera players to cover our issues, the answer is of course yes. As long as we keep signing players like Eriksen, Barella, Bastoni, De Vrij and Skriniar, we can use Primavera players to fill roles here and there. One-two of them will end up becoming really good and grab a lineup spot. I'm not even commenting on the Biraghi and Dimarco cases where they left and came back and then left again. From our current Primavera team, there's definitely 4-5 players that deserve a shot, but they will not get it. Because the pressure is too high and the coach will consider everything to be hard.

    This team could not have used Zaniolo, Esposito, Dimarco, Gravillon, Vanheusden Salcedo and Agoume as part of the roster. Zaniolo, being healthy and Dimarco in particular would have featured a lot, and Esposito played a bit last year, even in a tough CL game, so I'm guessing Conte would have used him more than Pinamonti. Who also should have been an option to use but he refrained for it for no clear reasons.


    Seven serviceable Primavera products in one generation is actually pretty great outcome given the times we live in. But since we never gave a chance to players like Salcedo, Gravillon and Agoume, they won't really have that high hopes of becoming relevant players in the future, at least not as high as being involved in a team that aims to win the championship, with however small part.
    We just flat out refuse to acknowledge that we produce the talent and as management, we succumb to coaching cravings of new, "ready" players. This was our biggest mistake in the Thohir era. The talent wasn't as great as now, but some players could have been turned out useful.
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  10. #1046
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Drago View Post
    I don't think Vanheusden belongs in the same category with the others. I know it's only the Belgian league but he has been one of the best cb of the league and he already had an offer from Arsenal in 2019. I would say that's more than decent at the age of 21. The only issue with him is his injuries.
    I hope he follows the steps of Kompany and Vertonghen, not Vermaelen.
    Massimo Moratti: "It's better to be multi-ethnic than buying matches."

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  12. #1047

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    What can Locatelli offer us that Wijnaldum can't?

    Keep in mind that Gini has won Champions League and Premier League while being world-class at Liverpool, whereas Locatelli has won Jack and Shit while being mediocre at Sassuolo.

    Keep in mind also that Wijnaldum will be 30 in June, not 35, he's far from being a finished player.

    Keep in mind also also that if we can't afford a free agent on moderately high wages, there's no way we could afford to actually pay a transfer fee.

  13. #1048
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    Improvement. Wijnaldum in 2023 will be the same player, Locatelli can improve (or not). Considering Wijnaldum wage is way higher it's risky to get Locatelli but even more risky to get Wijnaldum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex de Large View Post
    Improvement. Wijnaldum in 2023 will a much worse player, Locatelli can improve (or not). Considering Wijnaldum wage is way higher it's risky to get Locatelli but even more risky to get Wijnaldum
    Fixed


  15. #1050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex de Large View Post
    Improvement. Wijnaldum in 2023 will be the same player, Locatelli can improve (or not). Considering Wijnaldum wage is way higher it's risky to get Locatelli but even more risky to get Wijnaldum
    We don't have ~30m cash atm. Even if we do have that money, better to spend on Gosens, help us much more than a CM.

    Also there are plenty of better options for that money. Fabian Ruiz or Castrovilli for instance.

    Wijnaldum might eat fatter salary, but it spreads over years.

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  17. #1051
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHM1605 View Post
    We don't have ~30m cash atm. Even if we do have that money, better to spend on Gosens, help us much more than a CM.

    Also there are plenty of better options for that money. Fabian Ruiz or Castrovilli for instance.

    Wijnaldum might eat fatter salary, but it spreads over years.
    If Inter hit the door of Napoli for Fabian Ruiz, they will probably ask for 60m. ADL never sells to a Serie A rival. So he would be a much more expensive option than Locatelli. As for Castrovilli, i don't think he's the type of player we need. With Barella, Eriksen, Wijnaldum/Vidal i don't see a necessity to spend big on another mezzala. Instead a regista, like Locatelli, is much more needed considering Brozovic situation.

    Anyway, this is just wild speculation as we don't have any money right now. Without a big sale, it's unlikely we'll see any big investments in the summer.


  18. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightbackground View Post
    What can Locatelli offer us that Wijnaldum can't?

    Keep in mind that Gini has won Champions League and Premier League while being world-class at Liverpool, whereas Locatelli has won Jack and Shit while being mediocre at Sassuolo.

    Keep in mind also that Wijnaldum will be 30 in June, not 35, he's far from being a finished player.
    When was Wijnaldum ever world class? He has a great work rate and stamina but what is he world class at?

    And if he's not on downward trajectory why are Liverpool unwilling to meet his wage demands?
    "Last person I called "Darling" was pregnant 20 seconds later!" Lord Flashheart.


  19. #1053
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Drago View Post
    If Inter hit the door of Napoli for Fabian Ruiz, they will probably ask for 60m. ADL never sells to a Serie A rival. So he would be a much more expensive option than Locatelli. As for Castrovilli, i don't think he's the type of player we need. With Barella, Eriksen, Wijnaldum/Vidal i don't see a necessity to spend big on another mezzala. Instead a regista, like Locatelli, is much more needed considering Brozovic situation.

    Anyway, this is just wild speculation as we don't have any money right now. Without a big sale, it's unlikely we'll see any big investments in the summer.

    People need to realize that we really really suffer without Brozović, thankfully he's really strong physically and it's rarely injured but when we've missed him we suffered a lot, and another thing is that Brozović will be in the last year of his contract next season and I don't think is gonna be that easy to renew him.

    I'd rather get Locatelli than Gosens even, specially if Perišić maintain his level and we get someone like Dimarco, plus there's Darmian. On the other hand our midfield outside of the 3 starters is absolutely horrible, we have 3 players that at best should be our 6th choice and one player that gets injured when he drinks water too fast.
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  22. #1055
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    Actually De Paul also hit the post and was quite involved in Udinese's attacks, but he lost many balls, some of which caused dangerous counter-attacks. Judging by his body language, i think that De Paul is not very motivated to play for Udinese anymore.


  23. #1056
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    Quote Originally Posted by varmin View Post
    Actually De Paul also hit the post and was quite involved in Udinese's attacks, but he lost many balls, some of which caused dangerous counter-attacks. Judging by his body language, i think that De Paul is not very motivated to play for Udinese anymore.
    Was a 6/10 performance but his crosses and set pieces were 9/10.
    "Last person I called "Darling" was pregnant 20 seconds later!" Lord Flashheart.

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  25. #1057
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    LoL. Apparently Barca offered 8mln wage for Wijnaldum with 3 years contract. Thank you Barca.


  26. #1058
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    That's gotta be total bullshit.

  27. #1059
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    Quote Originally Posted by varmin View Post
    LoL. Apparently Barca offered 8mln wage for Wijnaldum with 3 years contract. Thank you Barca.
    Aren’t they broke?
    VAR is some serious Bullshit!

  28. #1060
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    Barca are in debt (which can be re-financed?), but not exactly broke. Player on a free makes sense for them, especially after splashing hundreds of millions like morons.

    Quote Originally Posted by rfU View Post
    Quite contrast in that while Barca are focusing on youth and the future we're doing the opposite with Wijnaldum, a past his peak player with no resale value. What exactly is it that Wijnaldum has that we sorely lack at the club that would justify 200K per week wages? In fact, any qualities Wijnaldum does bring will quickly diminish with age (unless he has Zanetti-like freakish genetics) so the whole transfer-saga is pointless to me.
    Here you go m8:

    Inter reportedly put talks to sign Georginio Wijnaldum on hold, with Barcelona in pole position to sign the Liverpool midfielder.

    The Dutchman will see his contract expire at the end of the season, and he has recently revealed he hasn't reached an agreement with the Reds yet.

    Calciomercato.com reports Inter directors have been in talks with the player's entourage for a long time, with the the Liverpool star open to joining the Nerazzurri as a free agent in the summer.

    The agents' salary demands are in the region of €9-10m-a-year, plus a conspicuous signing bonus. Too much for the Nerazzurri, whose owners Suning are currently looking for reliable partners to sustain the club financially.

    Inter have now put talks on hold, favouring other clubs interested in his signing, especially Barcelona.

    The Catalans' interest is a concern for Inter with Ronald Koeman, who expressly requested the club to secure the services of the 30-year-old.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing View Post
    Plan B please
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