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Thread: Inter - Genoa (28 Feb 21)

  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Universe View Post
    I would ask another question though, which, to me, seems the accurate question to ask: do those of you arguing this, honestly believe that Conte gave Eriksen a legitimately fair shot to begin with, and that we as a club, did as much as possible (or reasonable) to ensure the success of this sizeable investment?

    For me the answer is a resounding no.
    Its a good question, Uni. But I don't think the answer is that simple. So let me provide the countering argument. IMO this is Conte's 3rd attempt at giving Eriksen a fair shot:

    1. When Eriksen joined us, Conte tried him out as a mezzala with a little more freedom. It didn't work, coz Eriksen lacked the discipline specially defensively.

    2. Post lockdown, Conte changed the entire formation of the team to 3-4-1-2 like you mentioned. I can argue that this change was largely done to integrate someone like Eriksen, to utilise him in a role that suited his talents more. If we didn't have Eriksen, I doubt Conte would have changed the formation to that. Like you said, that didn't work at all. And Eriksen found himself on the fringes of the squad.

    3. We can say this retrospectively, once Conte realised he has to live with Eriksen this season, he worked with the player to transform him to his new (current) role in a 3-5-2. You can again see that this role is tailor-made to suit Eriksen, he doesn't play similar to Barella-type mezzala on either side of Brozo. Eriksen is allowed to stay deeper and help Brozo distribute the ball and utilise his strengths in play making. All that training work is also evident in the shifts Eriksen is putting him, specially his off-the-ball movement. Finally this has worked.

    So I think its unfair to say that the coach hasn't given Eriksen a fair shot. In a top team fighting for serious objectives, a fair shot is dependent on the performances of the player too. We also have to take into account that Conte & Eriksen hasn't yet had a summer break to work on integration, so its understandable why it took longer to successfully integrate.

    I am just glad it has finally happened. And while the majority of the credit should rightly go to the player and his hard work + professionalism, the coach also gets some credit for this.

    Ditto re Perisic. His performances we also poor at the start of the season as he couldn't adapt to the LWB. He was even tried as support striker. But again, clearly Conte has been working with him at training, and now Perisic interprets his LWB role a lot better, both defensively and in attack. Again, the large part of that credit goes to the player, but the coach gets some credit here too.

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  3. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenine View Post

    1. When Eriksen joined us, Conte tried him out as a mezzala with a little more freedom. It didn't work, coz Eriksen lacked the discipline specially defensively.
    He did??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenine View Post




    2. Post lockdown, Conte changed the entire formation of the team to 3-4-1-2 like you mentioned. I can argue that this change was largely done to integrate someone like Eriksen, to utilise him in a role that suited his talents more. If we didn't have Eriksen, I doubt Conte would have changed the formation to that. Like you said, that didn't work at all. And Eriksen found himself on the fringes of the squad.
    The 3-4-1-2 change occurred before Eriksen played a minute for the club. And he shifted the formation in the lock down because we had a run of bad results prior to it. It had nothing to do with Eriksen. And everyone saw that it was bad fit from the Fiorentina game that Conte initially experimented with it and Eriksen was barely an Inter player by then. Sanchez was used there, a failed experiment Conte had tried a few times before actually, with him as trequartista.

    The 3-4-1-2 change also happened because the trident that Conte preferred, Barella-Brozovic-Gagliardini, was not always available. And he tried both Barella and Brozovic at the '1' spot. As well as started Valero several times over Eriksen.
    <<Gli scudetti è giusto vincerli sul campo>> Antonio Conte on Calciopoli

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  5. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenine View Post
    1. When Eriksen joined us, Conte tried him out as a mezzala with a little more freedom. It didn't work, coz Eriksen lacked the discipline specially defensively.
    This has been mentioned before so many times but let's try again. Before this January Eriksen was used as a mezzala only twice. His debut at Udine and the away game against Cagliari this season. That's it.
    #CONTEOUT


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    To be fair to Eriksen 3 4 1 2 was a dreadful formation, where not only did he look bad, but also every player who played there was bad. More importantly, the whole team played bad.

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  8. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by brehme1989 View Post
    The 3-4-1-2 change occurred before Eriksen played a minute for the club.
    I am pretty certain largely playing 3-5-2 before lockdown. Just check some of our final games before the lockdown if you have any doubts. I will do the same.

    EDIT: Here are some posts from the Eriksen thread pre-lockdown which confirm my argument and show that your statement above is incorrect:

    03 Feb 2020:
    Quote Originally Posted by CafeCordoba View Post
    We still played the same formation and system where the mezzalas drift to their flanks. When we have the possession in their half then they move to more central position obviously when the RCB/LCBs move forward and RWB/LWBs provide the width.
    09 Feb:
    Quote Originally Posted by surripere View Post
    Is he exempt from tackling or something? I don't see how we can play him as a mezzala if he refuses to put the foot in. There's no way he should play ahead of Lautaro/Sanchez. He looks a luxury player, it's trequartista or bench. I'm beginning to wonder why we got him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaindé View Post
    As I said as a trequartista he shouldn't be expected to tackle, as a mezzala tho...
    13th feb:
    Quote Originally Posted by surripere View Post
    Looks like Conte is happy to play him in central midfield after all. I'd say it's him or Sensi in future, I doubt he'll play both unless forced to do so.
    9th Mar:
    Quote Originally Posted by surripere View Post
    A pointless, stupid signing if you're not prepared to play him as a trequartista, which Conte isn't.
    It is clear from these comments that we were still playing 3-5-2. Everyone before lockdown was complaining how Conte is wasting Eriksen NOT playing him as a trequartista or close to the goal. Yourself included.

    Here are some comments from the Conte thread immediately post lockdown further confirming when the formation change to 3-4-1-2 happened:

    04 Jun 2020:
    Quote Originally Posted by DARi0 View Post
    Finally some good news: Eriksen convinces Conte

    Inter playmaker Christian Eriksen has reportedly impressed enough in training and to book a place in the starting line-up against Napoli in the Coppa Italia.

    The newspaper reveals that Conte has picked Eriksen among the starters during his first tactical training sessions and points out that we might see a 3-4-1-2 with the Dane behind Romelu Lukaku and Lautaro Martinez when Inter travel to the San Paolo to face Napoli.
    Quote Originally Posted by Puma View Post
    Thus far, playing to our "strengths" has led to us playing a 3-5-2 with the omission of Eriksen.

    I have very little faith that Conte will sunddenly include Eriksen in the eleven, deploy him behind the front two and and change the team's formation to accommodate him. Personally, that sounds like a bit too much change for Conte.
    13 Jun 2020:
    Quote Originally Posted by vex View Post
    There is no way he is changing anything, putting eriksen in amf position is as radical change as we will see while he is here.
    Here is a tactical analysis of one of our final games pre-lockdown, against Juve with noEriksen. Its clear that we were still playing 3-5-2.



    So clearly your "facts" are incorrect. My argument holds.
    Last edited by Bluenine; Today at 14:43.

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  10. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by NimAraya View Post
    Well said Uni. Conte fans and apologists' memory works as good as last few weeks. There is 0 excuse for the treatment Conte gave to Eriksen prior to the past few weeks. Gaglairdini, Vidal and Brozovic were all playing poor, yet these people are defending Conte's decision to freeze Eriksen to the bench for these 3 and humiliate him with 2 minutes playing time every few weeks! No person on his right mind would defend such a treatment if they were not busy defending a coach whose job is to integrate the team and get the best out of the options he has.
    I know right. It was literally just FOUR games ago that Eriksen became a starter in this CM position.. 4!!! While I said myself that I want to leave things in the past and move forward, I allow myself that concession because I'm very aware of the time frame of these events.

    In reality, let's not act like Eriksen being humiliated with punishment subs is ancient history and that now everything is happy because he's fully established himself as a key player. Four games is absolutely nothing! It was 3 weeks ago ffs. To assume he's a nailed-on starter is ridiculous. People talking about next season is ridiculous. I still worry every single match, right up until the lineups are published, that Conte will re-bench Eriksen

    4 games guys, I can't stress it enough. Past few weeks have been amazing but it's very recent history (literally just 6 weeks ago) that Eriksen was making a solitary 20 minute cameo across 8 consecutive league games.

    (Haters will argue I'm twisting the stats because he missed one of those games for the birth of his child )

    Quote Originally Posted by varmin View Post
    Facts are that there were some games where Eriksen was running like headless chicken with no idea what to do.
    Let's not put all the blame on Conte. There are two sides in every story.
    That's kind of the whole point of this conversation. Headless chicken, ineffective, whatever. Either way, you're saying he was poor, no? I'm saying the reason for that poorness were to do with the factors I mentioned earlier. And as we've discussed to death, the broken 3412, and Conte's insistence on playing Eriksen in that formation, was a significant factor to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Il Drago View Post
    This has been mentioned before so many times but let's try again. Before this January Eriksen was used as a mezzala only twice. His debut at Udine and the away game against Cagliari this season. That's it.
    Exactly. Played CM twice out of 17 league games last season. 6 times out of 26 total apps in 2019/20.

    I mean, the very fact that Eriksen averages just 42.6 minutes per appearance should really say everything. How anyone could think that is giving a fair chance is beyond me. And that's only a surface stat taken out of context. When you actually look at the closer picture it gets worse because everyone knows the completely random and inconsistent minutes he got.

    I took out all the games where he featured for less than 10 minutes (of which there are fucking TWELVE ) and these are the stats:

    - In 20 games as an AM he played on average 60 minutes. If you include the garbage time subs it goes down to 39 minutes
    - In 13 games as CM he played on average 45 minutes.

    However, before this recent stint as a starter (which I am counting from the Coppa Italia semi final 2nd leg to the Genoa match yesterday), Eriksen averaged just 30.8 minutes in 9 games as a CM, having not once played more than an hour, let alone a full 90. (Again, this is purely AM vs CM data, I am not including the 2 games he played DM.)

    So.. Eriksen has worn the Inter shirt 47 times. If you remove garbage time apps under 10 mins, and count the games up until he became a "starter" (literally 3 weeks ago ), he only played 9 times as a CM spread out over those 47 games, averaging just 30.8 minutes per game.

    "Given a chance" my ass.
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  12. #407
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    Bluenine, are you for real? You picked some comments and the replies revolving around one (rather undecided) member throughout 4 months to present "facts"? That's a very poor sample out of a biased selection of comments. Do better please...
    <<Gli scudetti è giusto vincerli sul campo>> Antonio Conte on Calciopoli

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  14. #408
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    Conte hasn't treated special Eriksen or somebody else in the squad except his pupils aka Lukaku and Vidal.
    There are many examples that Conte applies the same "treatment" to other players from the squad, not only and particularly to Eriksen. Remember Asamoah, he was a starter at the beginning of the past season than he dropped suddenly out of the team. Skriniar also had a tough time being rotated left and right and on the bench. Same goes for Godin.IIRC Biraghi had been used mostly as substitute at the beginning of the season but at the moment when he improved his product, he received more chances. Barella had been benched for a while, after some not so convincing performances as well. This season Conte had an idea to play with Kolarov and DD as CBs and after he's realized that this is a complete bullshit, both of them went directly to the bench. So, if one does not deliver up to Conte's standards and expectations, he goes on the bench and receives his special treatment except if his name is Lukaku.
    Stop blaming only him for the unsuccessful start of Eriksen's career at Inter. He definitely has some fault but it's ridiculous to blame Conte for everything wrong on the pitch, but in same time to praise only players when we win.

  15. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kova10 View Post
    Eriksen had more than enough chances given even as LCM against Cagliari. Conte basically screamed half the Game for Eriksen to keep his position, as he freestyled his way into number 10 everytime. The point is that there were always better Performers, and even Gagliardini was tactically more sound. Why are substitutions an insult by the way? Why does noone say the same about Vidal and Ashley Young in the last two Games?

    Above the Eriksen issue, the post contains flaws that are actively spreaded and contribute to some 'alternative' facts about Conte.

    Kolarov and D'Ambrosio were never meant to be starters in this system. Conte was forced to use them in the games he used them because of either injuries, COVID or squad rotation.
    He picked Kolarov because he was short on budget, and expected to win. So naturally he took the most experienced cheap option. Same with Vidal by the way. I doubt that he would have played with us If we had a bigger budget to operate. He doesn't love Vidal, he treats him like anyone else which can be seen in him being left out of the starting eleven, because of disciplinary problems.

    The results we are delivering now should have been delivered on a weekly basis by the way, as realistically there has been only one game we have been literally outplayed (vs Napoli). We werent capable of finishing games (Lazio, Roma, Atalanta) and grab the games as soon as possible (Sampdoria) because of offensive individual fuck ups and Not because of the tactical aspect. Same goes for the games against Real Madrid, Juventus (Coppa), Gladbach, and Milan (the First one). There the individual fuck ups occured defensively.
    Vidal not favoured by Conte? If there is one player that if Eriksen played instead of you can argue the team would still be in the champions league it’s him. After his screw ups vs M’glabach he should have stayed on the bench.

  16. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by brehme1989 View Post
    Bluenine, are you for real? You picked some comments and the replies revolving around one (rather undecided) member throughout 4 months to present "facts"? That's a very poor sample out of a biased selection of comments. Do better please...
    LOL. I quoted 6 different posters over 6 months, funny how you saw only 1. Let me humour you a bit more with more posts and a quote by Bergomi, all collaborating the same fact. I am focusing on only that one point now, and calling your bulls**t on it. Are all these 10 odd posters wrong, or are you wrong?

    One thing you will have to appreciate Brehme is that you can't change facts to suit your opinion. It should be the other way around.

    Feb to May:
    Quote Originally Posted by ADRossi View Post
    I can see it now. The year is 2022. We've sold Skriniar and Eriksen to sign Marcos Alonso and Arturo Vidal. We're still playing a 3-5-2 with Candreva as starting RWB. After the retirement of Handanovic, the club has elected to name Berni captain.
    Quote Originally Posted by DARi0;1905570
    3. Finally he must [B
    learn all the secrets behind being the perfect mezzala[/B] in a 3-5-2 system as Inter manager Antonio Conte will not be changing from his tried and tested system.
    Quote Originally Posted by CafeCordoba View Post
    Eriksen forced to a mezzala role is just facepalm-stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by DARi0 View Post
    ^^ Inter legend Beppe Bergomi seems to agree with you Cafe:

    “Eriksen, on the other hand, finds little room in a 3-5-2 in my opinion. Under this aspect Conte had some difficulties, in order to enhance him we could change the formation to a 3-4-1-2, personally I would keep a 3-man defense anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pajo View Post
    He should be deffo played as AM. He has played as CM lots of time in Spurs as well, but ass attacking minded CM with less defensive responsibilites. Similar to how Sensi played in his first month here. And Spurs ALWAYS had two midfielders that are good in defense next to him, since he didnt defend much (in terms of tackling). We have those two, Brozo and Barella. Sensi probably too.

    That being said, even 3-4-1-2 can deffinielly work. Brozo and Barella behind Eriksen, is excellent trio. And having Sensi of the bench instead of Vecino when we need to attack is as great as it can be.
    Jun:
    Quote Originally Posted by Il Drago View Post
    I will be pleasantly surprised if Conte switches to 3-4-1-2 or 4-3-1-2 as his plan a. He hasn't played with a trequartista before so he would be getting out of his comfort zone.

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