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Thread: Defensive woes

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    Defensive woes

    Altho this section is called "games and tactics" mostly match threads are opened here ... i opened dis one to discuss some tactics

    the concern that i want to share is about our defense. To say that they have not been brilliant in this later stages of the season wud be an understatement ... but do you really think our defense is really world class?

    RB - this is one area I do feel is covered once we sign an CM so that there is enough flexibility to revert JZ bak to RB when need arises.

    Andreolli or Burdisso are not really meant to be RBs

    CD - Now this is where the main problem lies.

    Materazzi - a wonderful world cup and an inspired season with a number of important goals, really been a stalwart this season. But he is 35 and can we rely him to carry this defense on his shoulders for too long. Add to that he does not really add any pace in the heart of defense.

    Cordoba - I hv said it for long he is nt Inter starting material any more. No offense to his fans, but if you look objectively, at no point of his career was he really been looked at as one of the best in the world. He is one player who has never found any suitors in the whole of Europe - even in his prime years.

    Walter Samuel - the WALL. Had a horrible time at Real, was better last season but hardly played this season as his game is too akin to that of Materazzi's. But he is no more the player he was at Roma. This is an established fact. So do we retain him as a 3rd chouice to take over from Materazzi once he goes of the boil? Bcoz it is obvious that Samuel-Materazzi wont work due to the simple fact that they are too slow. Again, he is 28. So in a year or 2 he will be still there to replace Materazzi.
    so what shud be done? Send him out on a year-long loan?

    Burdisso - he has promised so much, but not yet delivered much. So what do we do with him? Keep him and he remains as our 3rd or 4th CD or send him on a year long loan?

    Andreolli - i dont think there is any doubt that he needs to play a lot more and we need to find him a side in serie A to do so.

    So my summary:
    Buy a starting CD - world class quality.
    Send one of Samuel and Burdisso on loan
    If keep Cordoba, then he will be the 4th choice
    Loan out Andreolli.

    LB:
    Maxwell has been good in patches but improving all the while. I suggest we keep him but alternate with JZ for LB
    Grosso - good WC, but nothing since then. My verdict - sell him if we get a good deal seeing that we will have JZ bak as a WB nxt season.

    Between Maicon, JZ, Maxwell I think the wingback positions are comfortably covered.

    Materazzi to be the starting defender alongside Mexes/Gallas/Andrade/??
    Samuel i vote we keep him and loan out Burdisso
    I think we shud sign Heinze to cover for Grosso as 2nd LB and be our 4th CD.
    And loan out Burdisso and sell Cordoba.

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    I was also thinking about how bad our defence has been in the latter parts of the season. While some of it may be due to laxity, there is no denying that we have conceded goals all year round.....against Munich in the beginning, 3 against Milan..

    I think the ideal signing would be Heinze and selling Grosso. He could cover the CB and LB positions very well.

    Burdisso for me is an enigma...next yr he has to show the world that he is among the best defenders around.


    ps - I think we should open one more thread for our attacking options and discuss the interplay between our strikers and midfielders.
    IO SONO INTERISTA

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    No offence, but I think Materazzi's form has been abysmal this past few matches. Of course, he has came up with a few goals to compensate that but if we take our Matrix blinders off, he hasn't been as good as he was during the beginning of the season.

    Needless to say, Cordoba hasn't been that good either. Burdisso had a torrid time against Lazio and Samuel is still injured.

    For next season, I don't think we should get any defenders just yet. We should groom Burdisso and Andreolli up and if they are not up to their standards, then get a new defender in 2008 when Matrix would probably hang up his boots.

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    the problem isnt the players

    its the type of defending they do

    every match i watch, i see them backing off all the time, never shoulder to shoulder

    as a result, teams with more quality pass the ball around our 18 yard box until they find an opening

    no-one goes to win the ball off the defense as 5 players will always trump 2~3 DMs in midfield, this is especially most pronounced when we have only zanetti and dacourt trying to win the ball in midfield, and its not even midfield! its on the edge of the 18-yard box

    especially if our defensive line is unwilling to break the line

    there isnt a real solution to this, maybe mancini needs to alter his tactics to allow more risks and more aggressive defense

    its one thing i absolutely loathe, its a possession team like inter playing so god damn deep and not imposing its will on a game

    i hate it when we try to play counter attack and we cant even do it properly because figo is our only link up player and hes is slow as hell

    dacourt is shit as hell, maxwell/grosso are shit as hell because they get burnt every time they play, cordoba lets his man wander off and for gods sake materazzi cant play the way he did next season

    MORATTI!! BUY A GODDAMN WORLD CLASS CENTRE BACK

    AND BUY A GODDAMN WORLD CLASS TREQUARTISTA!!, i hate it when mancini decides to play counter and we end up wasting the entire first half and having zero urgency

    ITS AN ABSOLUTE SHAME WHEN MANCIO WANTS TEAMS TO OVERCOMMITT BUT THE DEFENSE IS DEFINATELY NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO GET THAT TO HAPPEN...
    Last edited by cloudq; 14 May 07 at 16:56.
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    RB and LB is wing backs, which mean they are tactically offensive. that's why 3 cm is necessary here, or vice versa perhaps . the problem is, when wing back attacks, our cm sometimes do not provide enough cover. also in defensive situation, our cm does not give enough help when oppenents winger and full back attack.

    this 4312 tactic need high stamina cm's. coz when we attack, practically two cm's go forward and the other one stay back in case oppenent do counter attack. most of the time, JZ is the staying back cm, and his position is in (rather) left side. so when the counters happen in the right side, we are sometimes late to anticipate, coz maicon (rb) and vieira or deki (rcm) is to far away up front. or when the counters happen in the left side, the lb is late to come back. but actually, that is a usual thing in this formation. more discipline from full backs and cm's will solve this.

    about cd, i've noticed when we face a dynamic team (i.e roma) our cd's is sitting too deep. when opponent play the ball around to confuse cm's, there will be a big gap between cd's line and cm's line. there lies opportunities to do long shot or chip shot which often makes JC looking like amatuers. i think doing man to man mark to opponents wingers (by full backs) and amc (by one of mc, i prefer the central one) will give more security. the other two will do zone marking and covering.

    another problem is the cds we have. matrix and samuel is rather slow players, which makes playing them both together with attacking full backs is risky, or we need a good dm to stay back while the team attacks. burdisso is decent with great potential and cordoba, duh, is no longer his old self.

    matrix is old, but the level of performance he showed this season is amazing. we only hope he ables to keep this standard, if it declines, just a bit. burdisso is still young, and i prefer to keep him. besides, he is a passionate player and i like it. unfortunately, his pair with matrix is not gelled up well so far. cordoba is a long servant for this club, and it would be sadden to see him leaving to another european league. i won't mind if he moves back to south america, coz it's another "world" (in term of football competition). samuel will be a perfect choice to be matrix's back up. but a player of his class will not want to wait too long for first team spot.

    loaning samuel out is good imo. but what about his feeling? i mean a player with his class and age probably will not accept this term easily. there is a possibility that he prefers moving out more. and if he stays, it means that there is a big chance that he ends up in the same situation as now. so, samuel stays and burdisso goes out on loan will be considerable only when samuel really knows what he wants. i personally do not want any problem when summer transfer market is over.

    so, if we buy a new cd, he must be a world class one and a perfect pair for matrix. now, who is available and does not cost a fortune? i dunno. coz if we need to splash cash, midfield and attack will gives more improvement.

    about lb position, maxwell secures one spot. about grosso, he did not perform as expected. but still, this is his first season, and i want to give him one more to prove his self. if he leaves, then i want a more defensive lb as substitution. having only maicon, JZ and maxwell as fullbacks, i think it is rather thin.
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    This is definitely yet another department we should make a change and I disagree with those who say that we are well set here. May be I am totally wrong to say that Chivu would be the man but I think we should bring in a defender who would start in the middle.

    Andreolli - Telling frankly, I don't know him that well even though I have seen him a couple of times. May be he would be a future prospect, especially to replace Matrix instead of next season. I wouldn't mind him to be loaned for a season, so that he would get to play regularly.

    Burdisso - Well, not a world class defender for sure. Yet a wonderful squad player but I don't think at all that he should be our starting defender next season. Am I wrong ? I don't think so !

    Cordoba - We all know it. He's not been the same player he used to be and that might be coz of his age, as alot of his game depends on his speed.

    Materazzi - He has been doing well since the World Cup but he's going to be 35 (or is already is) and most importantly, can he repeat the same performance throught next season as well ??

    Samuel - Well ! Now, this is one player who I think would do his job with a good partner alongside him. He's 28 and still has a lot to give. He might not have played much this season but that's also coz of Materazzi's amazing performance (amazing in the sense that never did I expect Matrix to perform that well). Otherwise, Samuel would have easily played week in and out and gained fitness and adapted to the team. It's not easy for defenders to make a great impact just by playing few games, or may be I am being biased.

    But as someone said - It's either Matrix or Samuel !!

    Then, as some of you guys have mentioned it - Our defence would have looked a bit better, had our midfielders helped them a bit with the defending.

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    We need a quick CD to partner either Samuel or Matrix. Young or old doesnt matter, the other leagues are very fast so we need someone who has what our defence lacks. Burdisso and Cafe are quick but definetely not one of the quickest. I dont know but this season our team could have been even better if we had some more pacy players.

    Andreolli will have to be 2nd or 3rd choice even next season, I dont mind it as long as he understands that we have 2 great world class CD's and that Marco will definetely get his chance and make about 20-25 appearances next season.

    How gud a player is Vincent Kompany?


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  8. #8
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    I have given my opinion on this matter before. I see nothing mayor wrong with the defensive aside from them relaxing totally in the later half of the season.

    I think that the current players are fine the only change I want is Nico starting every game and cordoba being a sub.

    I do however believe we need depth in the defensive midfielder part whenever cambi and viera has been out together we have struggled defensively because of this.

    I believe that if the players get their concentration back we are fine.

    Having said all of this I still think Mancini wants to sign a centreback. I expect Chivu will come as part of a pizzaro+grosso deal.
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    Chivu or mexes would be a great addition to our squad,but if one of them comes,samuel has to go.

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    defence has been absolutely fine all season when it counted even without our best defensive midfielders. you guys are completely overreacting, we have had injuries in defence as well but when it counted it has been brillant.

    the only concern is left back, that's it. you guys want 10 new players in every position

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    Quote Originally Posted by Handoyo View Post
    No offence, but I think Materazzi's form has been abysmal this past few matches. Of course, he has came up with a few goals to compensate that but if we take our Matrix blinders off, he hasn't been as good as he was during the beginning of the season.
    I want to emphasize this point. We can't be too sure that Materazzi will still be a guranteed starter next season, we have no idea how long his form will lasts, it's a shame, but his form came up a little too late.

    Burdisso has been quite promising IMO, yes he had a poor match against Lazio, but any one can have a bad day. That game didn't make me forget his positioning instinct and defensive capabilities.

    Another point I want to emphasize is the speed of our central defenders. Central defenders DO NOT require high pace and acceleration, it was a surplus that Cordoba had such a high pace a few years back then. There are not many fast defenders like Cordoba (young), and Burdisso isn't THAT slow to be considered a slow defender. We DON'T NEED an extra defenders just because Cordoba is slowing down.

    Lastly, regarding Samuel, I can't really understand why can't Samuel and Burdisso co-exist, even if their plays are similar, we can play man marking defensive tactics, so that can avoid them running into each other.
    Wallace

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    burdisso and samuel can easily co-exist.

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    Cloud actually made a very good point. I don't remember much from the previous matches but from the Lazio match, the defence indeed was backing down too much from the attackers. It was as if their movement was stagnant and nobody was confident enough to go forward and take the ball away from the attacker.

    I can definitely recall at least two occassions when such a thing happened. One was when Rocchi received a through ball, which he failed to convert with his left foot and the other was when Jimenez forced a great save out of J.Cesar.

    I can't remember exactly but I'd hypothize that, most part of the tactical failure mentioned above was due to the fact that Stankovic was our DM and since we were trailing, he had to go forward to pressure Lazio's defence and thus there was nobody in front of our defence line everytime Lazio counter attacked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    the only concern is left back, that's it. you guys want 10 new players in every position
    I do not understand why left back is a concern....Maxwell started slowly but has picked up very well in the 2nd half of the season. I see him improving further and playing a big role next year.
    And Grosso as 2nd choice isnt bad at all unless he wants more playing time..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaled View Post
    Chivu or mexes would be a great addition to our squad,but if one of them comes,samuel has to go.
    Not really.

    Ideally I wud like to pair up Samuel with someone like Mexes or Gallas.

    Materazzi has been good, scored nice and imp goals, but in the long haul he is 35, samuel in 28. Next season when both of them start from 0 (unlike this year when Matrix had the WC momentum) i wud bet on Samuel coming off the blocks faster.

    The reason why i want to loan out Burdisso (atleast for 6 months) is he rarely gets to play CD. Better hv Materazzi and Cordoba as 3rd and 4th as their best years are behind them, whereas we wud expect Burdisso to be our 3rd CD in one or 2 seasons from now.

    Unless he proves himself to be better than Samuel which frankly at this point of time i dont think he is.

    Someone mentioned keeping Grosso as 2nd LB. I ask why? Rather hv sumone like Heinze who is more versatile and can play CD as well if need arise.

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    You are all overreacting.

    I can't believe that you're even mentioning defenders like Mexes, Chivo, Gallas and Andrade. Non of them is better than any of our defenders.

    We have the best defenders in the world, and I'm not exaggerating.

    You have the best defender in the world = Marco Materazzi.

    You have the fastest defender in the world and a true Interista = Ivan Cordoba.

    You have one of the best defender in the world (he was the best with Roma, but injuries affected him this season) = Walter Samuel.

    You have a great great great defender, who's better than any of the defenders you're mentioning here, and he's only 25 = Nicolas Burdisso.

    You have the captain of the Italian youth national team (I thought you all wanted an Italian player, well guess what, he is Italian and he is Interista) = Marco Andreolli.

    You have Maxwell and you have Maicon, and if you don't think that they're good enough to start every single game in Inter, then you know nothing about Inter, realy.

    We don't need any new defenders.

    I want you to mention one team in Europe that has the defenders we have, give me one team. (unless if I forgot something..)
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    M.Adnan, I'm not saying that we should get new defenders but you'd be blind to not get worried over the recent performance of our defence. This is a huge problem and we need to solve it. And of course, not every problem solution has to be a transfer.

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    Our defense has been horrid the last little while but I think we're all just trying a little too hard to find something wrong with this team. As Enzo said, our defense was perfectly fine throughout most of the season. In fact, I'm sure it was one of the best defenses along with Roma and Empoli.


    One explanation is that complacency has sunk in, not just with the defense but the entire team. I don't think anybody can deny that after watching the last half dozen weeks or so. Much like having sex with a girl you really don't find attractive, it's hard for the players to get excited for games that don't matter. I'm not sure how to explain the 1st leg game but we have won that competition 2 years straight (over the same club mind you) and perhaps complacency is too blame there as well.

    I hope Moratti and co. avoid any rash purchases just because of a bad stretch. I think our defenders are perfectly capable tbh...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Handoyo View Post
    M.Adnan, I'm not saying that we should get new defenders but you'd be blind to not get worried over the recent performance of our defence. This is a huge problem and we need to solve it. And of course, not every problem solution has to be a transfer.
    This is exactly my point.

    I'm surprised that many members think that Inter should buy new defenders just because the defence isn't strong lately.

    The solution is that our defenders should concentrate more and work harder, that's it. Buying new defenders is what you do in FM.

    These are examples from 1919:

    Cordoba - I hv said it for long he is nt Inter starting material any more. No offense to his fans, but if you look objectively, at no point of his career was he really been looked at as one of the best in the world. He is one player who has never found any suitors in the whole of Europe - even in his prime years.
    So? a defender who's still 30 years old and played in Inter for more than 8 years. So he should be sold because of one average season?

    You know, I don't see Milan selling Nesta after a long series of average games and many mistakes. Now he's back into his top form, eventhough he's older than Cordoba.

    If Cordoba continues his average games, then he won't start many matches, but it doesn't mean that we should throw him away (after all what he did to the club).

    Mancini knows about football more than me and you. He's not that stupid to keep playing Cordoba when he has better defenders like Burdisso and Samuel.

    Send one of Samuel and Burdisso on loan
    Sending Burdisso on loan?

    I have nothing else to say here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by M.Adnan View Post
    You are all overreacting.

    I can't believe that you're even mentioning defenders like Mexes, Chivo, Gallas and Andrade. Non of them is better than any of our defenders.

    We have the best defenders in the world, and I'm not exaggerating.

    You have the best defender in the world = Marco Materazzi.

    You have the fastest defender in the world and a true Interista = Ivan Cordoba.

    You have one of the best defender in the world (he was the best with Roma, but injuries affected him this season) = Walter Samuel.

    You have a great great great defender, who's better than any of the defenders you're mentioning here, and he's only 25 = Nicolas Burdisso.

    You have the captain of the Italian youth national team (I thought you all wanted an Italian player, well guess what, he is Italian and he is Interista) = Marco Andreolli.

    You have Maxwell and you have Maicon, and if you don't think that they're good enough to start every single game in Inter, then you know nothing about Inter, realy.

    We don't need any new defenders.

    I want you to mention one team in Europe that has the defenders we have, give me one team. (unless if I forgot something..)
    im sorry, but the reason our defense was so good this season isnt because of the defence, its due to having either cambiasso, vieira or zanetti playing so god damn well, opponents were forced to play over us rather than through us, which was why materazzi dominated

    materazzi isnt the same as the one that finished the world cup

    cordoba is clueless half the time, and is too chicken shit to take chances, because when he does, he leaves materazzi exposed and is burned, and while he is fast, defending so goddamn deep basically makes his speed worthless, with less time to react and less room to make up for his mistakes

    burdisso, fair enough he has played well this season but definately not world class, i would settle for him subbing in on occasions where one of our starting CBs are out

    samuel, well year full of injuries but you dont lose the class, stick with him, loyalty pays off

    and andreolli, sigh, we cant afford to have him in defence and we cant develop him, im sorry but loaning him out is definately the best option so he can return to us a star

    our wingbacks with the exception of maicon have been continually targeted when opposition teams attack, its starting to become predictable how opposition teams begin to break our defence down

    it will not be the same next season, if any of us has learned anything from milan, its defenders get old and f*ck up

    im hoping moratti goes centenary birthday mad and buys us a team that will be talked about in another 100 years
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    he was one win away from a treble, so i wouldn't argue with his testicle oriented man-management techniques

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