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Thread: Change of Rules, Rules of Change?

  1. #1
    Tommi's Avatar
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    Change of Rules, Rules of Change?

    I found couple of quite interesting articles, these are the most important things i think should be resolved ASAP.

    Time to loosen strikers' shackles

    (Eurosport.com) - While the authorities wage all-out war on excessive goal celebrations and non-regulation kit, eurosport.com's Alex Chick laments the continued blind eye turned to far greater crimes, most notably the orgy of foul play at every set piece that could threaten to turn Serie A into a farce.

    FIFA are so eager to fight cosmetic battles against excessive celebration and non-regulation kit, they forget to deal with the genuine foul play plaguing Italy.

    At every corner or free kick the penalty box becomes a war zone, with defenders pulling shirts, treading on feet and even bear-hugging their man to keep him in place.

    Would they get away with it on the half way line? Certainly not. In the box, however, a different set of rules seems to apply, with forwards fair game for sustained rough treatment.

    So ingrained is this malaise that even the strikers have given up complaining. Players of every stripe seem to accept it as part of the game.

    Even Inter powerhouse Christian Vieri is routinely bullied out of contention for the ball by Machiavellian means, and his plaintive shrugs seem more in hope than expectation.

    The great and good of world football harp on about favouring the attacker, yet this is a situation where top strikers like Shevchenko and Cassano are simply not given the chance to score.

    Still referees refrain from cracking down with anything like the evangelism with which they have taken on players with the temerity to "do a Ravanelli".

    Removing your shirt after scoring? Unacceptable. Removing your opponent's shirt during the match? No problem!

    FIFA SEE NO EVIL

    FIFA have a habit of skirting around real footballing issues. They tend to take on high-profile battles they know they can win, and shy away from making changes that could make a real difference to the way the game is played.

    For all the talk of bigger goals, four 25-minute quarters and a clock that stops every time the ball goes out of play, the governing body has enacted none of its more outlandish schemes.

    At the same time it fails to act quickly and decisively when the game needs tweaking. Backpasses marred European football for years before goalkeepers were finally prevented from picking them up, while efforts to refine the offside rule have merely resulted in greater confusion.

    The current issue does not even require the rules to be changed, only enforced: a foul is a foul, even when six of them are committed simultaneously.

    'PART OF THE GAME'?

    "But it's part of the game," bleat apologists for goalmouth thuggery, "everybody does it." If you penalised every bit of shirt-tugging, each match would have eight penalties and five red cards.

    Maybe so, for a week or two at least. But teams don't want to end up with eight men and coaches would soon make absolutely sure their defenders knew there had no carte blanche to assault their opponents.

    People say it will cause chaos, but isn't it chaos now?

    Whenever the odd spot-kick is given for goulmouth skullduggery, defenders look aghast despite being caught red-handed, and understandably so. The player has just seen ten defenders get away scot-free, yet only he is sanctioned.

    The answer is not to penalise a little, but a lot. Make sure defenders know that those sneaky penalty box infringements, so beloved of Italy's centre-backs, will no longer go unpunished.
    ________________________________________________

    - I for one arenīt happy with all these jersey ripping, shirt pulling, bear-tucking elements which happens every time someone getīs a corner/free-kick etc. For what iīve seen this happens mostly in Serie A. Itīs a war in our penalty areaīs, itīs a shame weīve come to this. It has become a habit already and itīs difficult to change, but i really think it should. Because itīs a habit in here, Italian teams are having difficulties in CL, UEFA cup etc. We think it belongs to football, but refereeīs from other countries doesnīt and they are right. Italian NT is also having troubles because itīs common thing to do in Serie A. For the sake of Italian football, do something Lega-Calcio!
    __________________________________________________ ______

    - Current offside rule should be changed as well, this passive rule doesnīt work and itīs even more confusing to refereeīs/players than it used to be. Something should be changed before our league goes even worse (if possible). Is the technology the right answer? I donīt think so, but it looks like we are going with that path in near future. ->

    Technology: Italians keep an eye on the ball

    (Zoomata.com - Nicole Martinelli) - Perhaps the most difficult rule to call correctly in the sports world is soccer's offside. Leave it to the Italians—who have complained about more than their fair share of dodgy calls—to dive into solving the problem. Experts at Italy's National Research Council are developing a computer-based system that could change the way the game is judged.

    Here's how it would work: a camera installed on the sideline at midfield would offer a 180-degree view of the field. The camera's footage would be processed by a computer capable of distinguishing not only each player's position on the field, but also that of the ball in order to determine if a player is offside. At the moment of infringement, the machine will then wirelessly signal the referee.

    Why does a sport require so much brain power?

    Follow if you can: the offside rule states that a player for Team A, usually a forward, can't be closer to the goal than Team B's last defender when a Team A player touches the ball toward the goal. Judging offside is not an easy matter, even for professionals. Soccer authorities created training videos for referees to help them make more accurate decisions and simplified rules but arguments about offside calls still abound.

    "Referees make mistakes about 50% of the time, no matter how good they are. To work, our system would have to vastly improve that," says researcher Archangelo Distante, 59, himself once an amateur soccer player. "Humans don't have eyes in the back of their heads, but the computer will have to be capable of judgment, not picking up false offsides and stopping play. It's a real challenge."

    The system—which the team hopes to complete by next year—would be a blessing to any team that has ever been on the receiving end of a bad call. Still, although domestic leagues around the world may well adopt the technology, not everyone is keen on the idea. Football is a game played by humans that should be judged by humans, says a FIFA spokesperson. Fair enough. The soccer clubs, however, are interested enough in bringing computers to the field to fund the research, Serie-A's Udinese is behind the latest effort. Other projects, based on more intrusive and expensive wireless technology, have also been presented to the Italian soccer league recently. If this new technology takes off, FIFA's referees may find themselves facing even more cries of foul than they do now.
    __________________________________________________

    What about EU-Rule then?

    Is it really working or are the players form South-America for example faking their passports more often? If you ask me, itīs a yes, theyīre faking their passports more often now because of this rule. All the sudden they remember that their grand-grand father was an italian/spanish etc. Another question is that do we really need that many foreigners to play in "our" domestic leagues? Sure the better players should play, no matter where are they from, but football shouldnīt go to this way.

    Few weeks ago we (Inter) had two italians in our match (Favalli and Toldo), this weekend we had only one (Toldo). I watched Chelsea-Liverpool at the weekend and i noticed that they only had four english players in the field, two each. Is that what the big audiences wanna see? Teamīs full of foreigners or a team with half foreigners and half of their own country mates for an example? I bet the answer would be the latter. Iīm not a racist nor think that all foreigners should leave, but i really do think and hope to see more italian players in italian team. Thatīs why we still have our domestic leagues and not one global league. There should be a rule that at least five players from the league theyīll play in should be from that country.

    I know i could be quite alone with my worries, but i think football is going with the wrong path here. Why do we have domestic leagues if our leagues are full of foreigners? It certainly isnīt helping national teams. Weīve been talking about this for years already, but nothing has changed. It has become worse to be honest.

    We are called Internazionale, but that doesnīt mean we shouldnīt have any italians in our team. What about the difference of Milan and Inter. How was these teams created?

    Inter and Milan may be divided today but once the football lovers of Milan had just one team to support. Milan Cricket and Football Club, founded in 1899 by Englishman Alfred Edwards, was the domain of the expatriate English community and their well-heeled friends in the city, who met over cocktails at the American Bar.

    So, in early days Milan was an tea drinking "english" team.

    On March 9th, 1908, after a meeting in the backroom of the Orologio restaurant near Piazza del Doumo, an Italian and Swiss rebel faction decided to break away and set up their own football club. The club was named "Internazionale" in a jibe at the exclusive nature of their old team-mates who in turn later adopted the Italian Associazone Calcio, and dropped the reference to cricket, although they have kept to this day the English Milan title, in respect to their origins.

    Am i way off if i tell you guys that Internazionale was created originally for italians? Milan had all those english mens drinking tea and all that bullsh!t and we created Internazionale originally for italianīs who werenīt allowed to represent Milan. Thatīs not a fact or anything, i just have thought/read about this and i think it might be true.

    Anywayz, what you guys think? Should "we" change something or are you happy with the way the things are going now?

    Maybe i shouldnīt worry so much. Instead i should maybe listen to Christopher Walken when he said:

    "Donīt worry, have a nectarine"
    Peppino Prisco: "La gioia pių grande? Scontata. Il Milan in B. E per ben due volte: una... a pagamento e una... gratis. Sono dell 'idea che una retrocessione cancelli almeno cinque scudetti conquistati e che la vittoria di una Mitropa Cup elimini i residui"

    Peppino Prisco: "Io non rubo il campionato, e in Serie B non son mai stato"

  2. #2
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    Here's what I think of the suggested things. This shirt pulling has to end and the only way to do it is to punish for it in every area of the pitch. It ruins the game and especially the set pieces.

    The current offside ruling is a joke. For linesmen judging with the old rule was hard enough and when everything happens in fracions of a second the job is simply impossible. I'm totally for the techical equipment and also to change the offside rule back to what it was. If someone is not affecting the game, what the hell is he doing on the pitch in the first place?

    For what I know, Inter was founded so that the foreigners (mostly Swiss) were able to play too. But still even though our roots is to accept foregn players, there should be some restrictions. Having only one Italian in the starting lineup just isn't enough. This is NATIONAL league afterall.
    Nella gioia e nel dolore, per l'Inter eterno amore
    "It's not murder, it's an act of faith..." -The Cardigans
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    Indonesia

    32 Forum Supporter 10 years of FIF Most Important Member
    Shirt-pulling
    About the shirt-pulling during corners and set-pieces, I think it is find the way it is. It gives some physical addition to the game. It should only be punished if the pulling was too strong. Of course, this is very hard to see because there are so many pullings and there are only a referee and 2 linesmen. But still, I don't think it should be altered.


    Offside
    Passive offside rule should be simplified. It shouldn't be an offside if a shot came in and became a goal even when there is a player who is beyond the last defender. However, if he is obstructing the goal, it should be offside. However part 2, if the ball is either saved, deflected or bounced off the post/bar and fell to an attacking player, it should be called offside even though that attacking player was previously onside.

    I don't like this new offside rule that says it is fine for the upper body to be ahead of the defender as long as one of the food stays on the same line. It's true that it will bring more excitement and goals since strikers will be able to time their run earlier but it will be incredibly much harder for the linesmen to judge.


    Foreigners
    As I am kinda a neutral when it comes to the national team, I don't care about the rule. But if there really is a need to set, I think the notice should be made very advanced before the rule is implemented. About 3-5 years or so. This is to give the team more time to arrange their squad. It would be completely unfair if the rule is applied for the next season. Inter would be in complete predicament if that is the case.


    Btw, can anyone please enlighten me with that Christopher Walken quote? Thx.


    Handyo

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    Great post Tommi!

    Even Lennart Johansson - UEFA president - talked about forgeiner issue today. Too bad I didn't find the interview in english hence I must give a summary based on finnish version.

    • 1) Lennart Johansson suggest a plan for EU which would limit number of forgeiners in European football series.

      2) Johansson thinks that several clubs have losed their typical features because of big number of foreigners.

      3) In addition chances for youngsters' break throughs have decreased due to number of foreigners

      4) European teams should have 7-8 domestic players (obviously he means 7-8 domestic players in every playing eleven)


    I can't say anything else that I agree from bottom of my heart with every point. Especially the point number two is very important, I think. It's amazing fortune that countries have different football cultures and it's big big loss for sport called football if they vanish. Hope something will be done since current development sucks very big time.

    Don't get me wrong, hell no I'm saying foreigners should be completely banned. They are riches for every country if they are used properly. But overmuch is overmuch also in this case.

    I'm not screaming more Italian players because I love Italian National team. Actually I don't at least care about Azzurri almost at all. I fell in love Italian team and Italian football culture. That's why I want see Italian players in our beloved team.

    And a bit about history in case some of you didn't know. Foreigners were completely banned in Italian football between 1964 and 1980 (the decision was made to improve Azzurri's success). After that at first three and later 5 foreigners were allowed. It was sensational when Milan had five Dutch at the beginning of 90s. Then came the Belgian Jean-Marc Bosman and renewed the transfer sysmem and a bit later damn EU scrapped EU players' limits. The limits for non-EU players were removed at the beginning of the 2000s because several false passports existed.

    You can notice that a senseless growth of foreign players is relatively new phenomenon. Personally I think, that things were at their best in 80s when three foreigners were allowed. Foreign players made teams stronger, there were no useless foreigners sitting on the bench or on the stands and also smaller clubs had opportunities to sign very good players (because big clubs weren't allowed to hoard all stars) at those time. Hell, for instance Udinese had superb world class players such as Zico. Could you imagine something like that owuld happen nowadays?

    Of course I'm not so naive that I would wish three foreiners limit. But there should be some limit definitely. Maybe 7-8 foreigners out of 25 players might be the best I can at least semi-realistically hope. If EU doesn't allow to limit number of EU players let's make limit for non EU players (but some questions like double nationality must be solved before setting any limit). Or at minimum a rule that very team must have 3-4 U21 players in 18 players match squad.

    edit: About Inter's history. We were found by Italians and foreigners. Our first captain was Swiss (Hernst Manktl) but the first president was Italian (Giovanni Paramithiotti, I'm not sure about the name and am too lazy and tired to check out). But basically we are Italian club anyway, that's the fact.
    \"Inter is a lovely illness which leaves eternal scars\"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antti
    edit: About Inter's history. We were found by Italians and foreigners. Our first captain was Swiss (Hernst Manktl) but the first president was Italian (Giovanni Paramithiotti, I'm not sure about the name and am too lazy and tired to check out). But basically we are Italian club anyway, that's the fact.
    Of course we are an Italian club and most of the founders were Italian.

    Btw, you got that name right.
    Nella gioia e nel dolore, per l'Inter eterno amore
    "It's not murder, it's an act of faith..." -The Cardigans
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    Tommi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    For what I know, Inter was founded so that the foreigners (mostly Swiss) were able to play too.
    I understand and iīm sure that story is true. But after reading more about Interīs history i just thought itīs possible that Milan was created to be Milanoīs "english" team and Inter were created for Italians. Reason why i might believe so is this sentence: The club was named "Internazionale" in a jibe at the exclusive nature of their old team-mates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Handoyo
    Shirt-pulling
    About the shirt-pulling during corners and set-pieces, I think it is find the way it is. It gives some physical addition to the game. It should only be punished if the pulling was too strong.
    Youīve seen the differences between Serie A/EPL/Primera league. In Serie A the pulling is too strong all the time, the penalty area is always like a war-zone (this isnīt wrestling), penalty area has become a way too "brutal" in Serie A. Not so much happening in EPL/Primera league. You very well know the differenceīs man...

    Btw, can anyone please enlighten me with that Christopher Walken quote? Thx.
    Sure, i saw Christopher Walken on Conan OīBrien show (few days ago) and the conversation went like this:

    Christopher: Yes, I think I would be a good psychiatrist. It would be like when I direct, I'd just say 'do whatever you want'.
    Conan: WHAT? That's no good! What if someone's like, 'I hate my brother so much I want to kill him!' and you say 'Mehh, just do whatever you want'.
    Christopher: Well, I'd say 'Don't worry about it. Have a nectarine.'

    You gotta love the man...

    Quote Originally Posted by Antti
    Great post Tommi!
    Thank you

    You did wrote great post as well. *sucking up*

    Even Lennart Johansson - UEFA president - talked about forgeiner issue today.
    He mustīve been reading this forum. Hope he remembered to mention his mentor when he spoke.

    4) European teams should have 7-8 domestic players (obviously he means 7-8 domestic players in every playing eleven)
    I guess youīre right and he meant seven/eight players in starting 11. Seven/eight domestic players in starting 11 is quite much i have to say.

    *counting Interīs italian players from Inter.it*

    I just counted our italian players and we have 11. Thatīs good, but we have to look how many of them will actually play. We have three goalies (only Toldo will play), We have four defenders (Coco is always injured, Pasquale wonīt play much, Materazzi i guess will share his duties with Burdisso and Favalli hasnīt played good/much lately), We have three midfielders (Beati and Rebecchi wonīt play much if at all and Cristiano will not be a regular...i think) and finally...we only have one italian striker (Vieri), but almost everyone wants him gone. I just donīt think we own enough italians who will actually play.

    If this rule Johansson proposed or something like that will happen in the next few years or so, then we better start looking for new players and not "sell" them to our biggest rival. I quotation marked "sell", because we practically gave one away.

    Foreigners were completely banned in Italian football between 1964 and 1980
    Interesting fact you got there.

    During those years we won quite a much trophies. We won four Scudettoīs: 1964/65 - 1965/66 - 1970/71 - 1979/80, one European Cup/Champions League: 1964/65 and two Intercontinental Cupīs: 1964 and 1965. Since then, we have won one Scudetto.
    Peppino Prisco: "La gioia pių grande? Scontata. Il Milan in B. E per ben due volte: una... a pagamento e una... gratis. Sono dell 'idea che una retrocessione cancelli almeno cinque scudetti conquistati e che la vittoria di una Mitropa Cup elimini i residui"

    Peppino Prisco: "Io non rubo il campionato, e in Serie B non son mai stato"

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    Iīm also one who would love to see much more quality Italians in our team. This is an issue that needs to be solved. Every country is losing their indentity right now. Itīs something nobody wants. Itīs just a shame that there isnīt an easy way to make these kind of things done. But that Johanssonīs statement is a good start. Even if there has been ones before, too.

    I was thinking what would our squad look like, if there had been some limitations for years already.

    Toldo
    Christian Panucci - Cannavaro - Matteo Ferrari - Coco
    Capitano - Andrea Pirlo - Cristiano Zanetti - Stankovic
    Roberto Baggio - Adriano

    Subs:
    Adani, Matrix
    Di Biagio
    Bobo, Ventola, Corradi

    I would love it..

  8. #8
    Stefan's Avatar
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    I agree on most points with you Tommi exept the eu rule.

    I beliege that the reason some people want this restrictions which imho is racist is because the italian players coming through just aren't good enough. Another point just cause thier italian doesn't mean they give our club an identity a player identify with the lcub when he has been there 5 or more years not cause of his nationality. I believe the best players should no matter where they come from.

    1 of the reasons I fell in love with inter is cause we are international.
    Forza Inter per sempre!!!!
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    well, I think many people love inter since inter is accepting any nationalities to inter.. and we never make a fuss of players' nationality...

    You should notice that even Kuwait general concelour coming to inter training ground... the fact inter is becoming 2nd most popular team behind real madrid in the world, despite inter never win anything major for 15 years... is also because of that..

    but inter can't deny the national or regional issues, if italian FA or EU wants some rules restricting foreign players, inter cant deny that and simply have to live with it...

    i think that would be the only reasons inter will sign more italians in the future..
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