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Thread: UEFA possible new financial rule

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    UEFA possible new financial rule

    We have to worry about money because from 2012 the new UEFA rulings will come into force and clubs will not be able to spend more than they earn. I think it is wise to accumulate as much finance as possible to get ready to the 2012 season. I am against selling Micon but if we consider the circumstances it is absolutely sensible.

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    Today's spending is independent and irrelevent to that rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felice View Post
    We have to worry about money because from 2012 the new UEFA rulings will come into force and clubs will not be able to spend more than they earn.
    I'm sorry; what ?

    I know I've been out of the loop lately, but what is this new "briliant" idea of UEFA about ?

    Is there a thread about this somewhere ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luka View Post
    I'm sorry; what ?

    I know I've been out of the loop lately, but what is this new "briliant" idea of UEFA about ?

    Is there a thread about this somewhere ?
    In 2012 to play in european football clubs won't be allowed to spend more than they earn. It was brought in about a month ago. Not sure how they are going to implement it.
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    This is the stupidest idea I heard in my life.

    Can anyone explain to me, how it is a good idea ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luka View Post
    This is the stupidest idea I heard in my life.

    Can anyone explain to me, how it is a good idea ?
    this favors teams that are winning.. So, to build good team you need or to have players from your youth, or to win the CL and get money from there No matter who is owner of the club, he won't be able to inject money for transfers... Which is quite stupid, let's say that team like Barca wins the CL, get;s all the money, and will be able to invest in their squad like 100 mils per season, while other team, like let's say Inter, doesn't win it, get 20 mils from participating in the CL and can invest in players of total 20 mils..

    Stupid huh, monopoly shit, for those who are the best ATM...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pajo View Post
    this favors teams that are winning.. So, to build good team you need or to have players from your youth, or to win the CL and get money from there No matter who is owner of the club, he won't be able to inject money for transfers... Which is quite stupid, let's say that team like Barca wins the CL, get;s all the money, and will be able to invest in their squad like 100 mils per season, while other team, like let's say Inter, doesn't win it, get 20 mils from participating in the CL and can invest in players of total 20 mils..

    Stupid huh, monopoly shit, for those who are the best ATM...
    Exactly.

    Not only this will not help to close the "gap", but it will favour the teams who has the biggest pieces in the pie that is made from all the money sources.

    This will favour the teams who are big, have a lot of marketing all around the world, and the teams who win stuff - thus making more money through winning itself and through media money.

    To explain it better. If that thing happen the pie (prize money from winning league, cups, CL, Europa League, TV money, merchendise money - selling shirts etc., ticket money) cannot change much. It might grow a little, but it's shape will not changing dramaticly.

    The reason for it, is that the supply of the money can't be altered artificialy, because of the simple reason. Cutting off the outside source of the money, which can change the size of the pie at will. All it takes, is some big investment, and say a Serie C2 club, can change into Serie A club within couple of years. All it needs, is strong cash install. With this change, it will become impossible, and I don't have to explain, that it would take an infinity, for a club who is small, to become on a financial level of Barcelona or Real Madrid, if we don't consider outside source of money.

    I can't believe how stupid this idea is. There must be something that me/you don't know about this deal. It just can't be this stupid.
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    It's an excellent idea. Though the implementation needs to be analyzed very well. Clubs getting sugar-daddy money could quite well get their money through sponsorship deals if the money can't be brought into the club directly. But generally, very good idea. No more ManCity/Chelsea/Real Madrid bullshit. In lesser extent Inter bullshit too, but surely we can cope it. Our management has started to think about this already (spending a bit less, profit from Zlatan etc.).

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    i don't see how good the idea is Cafe...

    It is once again plus for big clubs. If the club ain't big, then they won't be able to sign good sponsorship deals, and once again, they are doomed. Let's say teams from minor leagues, let's say Zenit. They don't spend that much, but spend more then they earn. For example, they gave 30 mils for Danny, and they managed to be competative in UEFA Cup. One of the more expensive transfers. IF they weren't able to buy him and few other players, they would have strugled in Russian premier league. Same with CSKA, and so on...

    So, if you want more competative football, then you will allow teams to spend. In the end, it is same shit man, or you earn from tropheys and spend those money, and other teams can't buy new quality players, or your owner inject money into the budget, and you buy even better players, with the difference that weaker clubs can get money from the owners as well.. If weaker clubs can't get money, they won't win anything, and they won't strenghten themselves...

    EDIT: btw, i think we are going off topic too much, maybe some of the mods can create new thread about this and move these posts within that one
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    I don't think Real Madrid is in trouble. I think the money they spent do not come from Perez directly but it was through loans that the club made and since Perez is the figurehead of the club, my guess is that banks are more lenient in giving them the credit and also charge a lower interest rate, because they think it's a safe loan.

    It's a ginormously bad idea if you ask me. I'd very very much prefer a sheikh or a Russian tzar making a football club their personal toy rather than see all clubs have to whore themselves out the way Milan and Real Madrid did.

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    Well, the flip side to that is that propping up some clubs with artificial solvency makes it even harder for a small club to compete who does have to pay attention to the bottom line...It does make me think again about a Super League for Europe for the richest clubs perhaps....Smaller clubs would get increasingly marginalized otherwise

    I do believe solvency is one issue UEFA wants to contend with, the other is a proper football model that includes cultivating talent from within rather than continually making grand purchases.

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    I don't see how it is fair to minor clubs that only few (and really just FEW) of all of them (hundreds) can get to the top stage by getting their own sugar-daddy. It's still the poverty for 99% of them. With financial fair play, at least all the clubs have the chance to get to the top with their own work. At this moment it's not possible at all since the big clubs do this "financial unfair play". They get the money from outside and that money has no relevance to the operation of the club organization. Mediocre/small clubs can't break the power even if they do well in their operations economically because big clubs can overpower that.

    With the new system, all the big clubs can't be big clubs anymore. Take Moratti's money out of Inter, and Inter isn't a total overpower in Italy anymore. How more interesting Serie A will be then? Much more interesting.

    Han, yes it's not Perez's money but exactly the bank loans with ridiculous interests (if at all). So after Spain goes into crisis like Greece, it's us EU-citizens who fucking pay Real Madrid's spending. Of course part of rules of the financial fair play have to be that the monitoring instance is able to check financing methods of the clubs. So that for example Perez can't get his zero-interest loans to finance Real Madrid's spending. I'm really looking forward to this.

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    I've heard talks about a Super League for Europe for almost a decade now and it has never come to fruition. I think it's just too hard, for top teams to be traveling for HOURS just to get to an away game. With the EU in such a high tension nowadays, the possibility of a Super League just look further away if you ask me. Also, they can already compete against each other in the Champions League, so there is no 'curiosity' factor that would further force them to create a separate league.

    Quote Originally Posted by CafeCordoba View Post
    I don't see how it is fair to minor clubs that only few (and really just FEW) of all of them (hundreds) can get to the top stage by getting their own sugar-daddy. It's still the poverty for 99% of them. With financial fair play, at least all the clubs have the chance to get to the top with their own work. At this moment it's not possible at all since the big clubs do this "financial unfair play". They get the money from outside and that money has no relevance to the operation of the club organization. Mediocre/small clubs can't break the power even if they do well in their operations economically because big clubs can overpower that.

    With the new system, all the big clubs can't be big clubs anymore. Take Moratti's money out of Inter, and Inter isn't a total overpower in Italy anymore. How more interesting Serie A will be then? Much more interesting.

    Han, yes it's not Perez's money but exactly the bank loans with ridiculous interests (if at all). So after Spain goes into crisis like Greece, it's us EU-citizens who fucking pay Real Madrid's spending. Of course part of rules of the financial fair play have to be that the monitoring instance is able to check financing methods of the clubs. So that for example Perez can't get his zero-interest loans to finance Real Madrid's spending. I'm really looking forward to this.
    Cafe, what is your opinion then on the fact that the clubs who are the biggest marketing whores, albeit with zero success, will also be financially competitive? Just take a look at Milan and all the disgraceful things they do.

    Eg, the signing of Beckham & Ronaldinho. Playing against unknown sides all over the world (Albania, UAE, etc) in the middle of the season. Having a company with zero tradition like bwin sponsor their shirt. Going to the US straight after the season proper ends. Etc etc.

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    I don't understand what that has to do with anything. Biggest marketing whores normally are financially competitive. It's what clubs can do to enable their operation under the rules of financial fair play. If those companies/clubs/instances are willing to pay to those clubs, then so be it. It's fine as long as those clubs do that according to the rules. If they keep sucking, eventually they won't get paid as much in the future. And then the clubs who are not getting success, will become marketing whores when the instances willing to pay, pay those who have more success. That way the circulation is not interfered with the outside money which has nothing to do with the football business.

    Unless the rules sucks and the outside money can be pumped to the business in other ways (by sponsorship deals, ridiculous loans etc.). Then of course the whole rules is total non-sense.

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    Personally I thinks this is BS. The authorities should stay out of the way clubs finance themselves. Is long as their accounts are in order that should be enough. How they finance it should be their business.

    If abromovich or moratti wants to pour his money into a club that is his business and should have nothing to do with uefa or anyone else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeCordoba View Post
    I don't understand what that has to do with anything. Biggest marketing whores normally are financially competitive. It's what clubs can do to enable their operation under the rules of financial fair play. If those companies/clubs/instances are willing to pay to those clubs, then so be it. It's fine as long as those clubs do that according to the rules. If they keep sucking, eventually they won't get paid as much in the future. And then the clubs who are not getting success, will become marketing whores when the instances willing to pay, pay those who have more success. That way the circulation is not interfered with the outside money which has nothing to do with the football business.

    Unless the rules sucks and the outside money can be pumped to the business in other ways (by sponsorship deals, ridiculous loans etc.). Then of course the whole rules is total non-sense.
    What I mean to say is, are you willing to sacrifice Inter's pride & honor when we whore ourselves the way Milan is doing right now?

    With regards to "If they keep sucking, eventually they won't get paid as much in the future," that's not entirely true you know. Real Madrid, even though getting zero trophies from 2003 until 2007, still got lucrative sponsorship deals. So are Milan, trophyless from 2007 until now and God knows when it will end.

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    They got lucrative sponsorship deals because they've bought star players with the zero-interest money.

    I copypaste (+ edits) my reply from Benitez-thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Handoyo View Post
    If the UEFA rule is really gonna be in play, then we really have no choice but to whore outself as a club the way Milan & Real Madrid are doing right now.
    And how much more are they whoring now compared to us? We are doing our America- and China -tours, we are going to Middle-East in winter retreat and so on. We've been starting to do exactly the same thing like those clubs (ManU started it originally) because we've seen it's the only way to generate more money.

    edit. Is it that as we have Pirelli as our shirt sponsor whore a long time, it's much less whoring than other clubs (most of them) who changes the sponsor time to time? How is getting money from oil industry less whoring? How there is more pride & honor in that? It's like you've stuck in status quo that it's "always been like that" and it's somehow more honorable to be dependent on money from the outside of the club, on money coming from Moratti and other interest groups of Inter. I really don't catch your breathe in this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeCordoba View Post
    They got lucrative sponsorship deals because they've bought star players with the zero-interest money.
    And these 'star' players were has-beens like Beckham, Ronaldinho, Michael Owen and the likes. You want Inter to be infested by these pests, Cafe? Or do you want humble players who stay out of the limelight like Diego Milito & Cambiasso but who keeps delivering the goods?

    Quote Originally Posted by CafeCordoba View Post
    And how much more are they whoring now compared to us? We are doing our America- and China -tours, we are going to Middle-East in winter retreat and so on. We've been starting to do exactly the same thing like those clubs (ManU started it originally) because we've seen it's the only way to generate more money.

    edit. Is it that as we have Pirelli as our shirt sponsor whore a long time, it's much less whoring than other clubs (most of them) who changes the sponsor time to time? How is getting money from oil industry less whoring? How there is more pride & honor in that? It's like you've stuck in status quo that it's "always been like that" and it's somehow more honorable to be dependent on money from the outside of the club, on money coming from Moratti and other interest groups of Inter. I really don't catch your breathe in this one.
    There's a big difference. Milan were doing their trips even OUTSIDE the winter and summer breaks. They played Albania when it was an empty mid-week slot for them, even though they have weekend matches sandwiching that mid-week friendly match.

    Also, Milan & Juve IMMEDIATELY went to the US after the season ends. For us right now, we wait until it's really pre-season time (1-2 months before the season proper)

    With regards to the Pirelli thing, obviously there is a much deeper connection between Inter and Pirelli than Milan/RM to bwin, Cafe. Do I really need to get into the details here? And I'm sure that the sponsorship deal we got with Pirelli is not something that's extraordinary. As far as I know, they are based on fair market value.

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    No doubt that Richer Clubs will be favoured in the New System but it has its pluses like Cafe said, it will force Clubs to run its operation as a corporate. Also it will force them to promote local talent. Suppose a Club like Inter cannot use Moratti money anymore then it will be forced to rely on their own youth system more.

    Also in the existing system the Richer Clubs are favoured. I dont see how being in the same situation,i.e, the newer system favouring the richer Clubs would be a down anyway.
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