Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 47

Thread: (Rafa thread - Yes, another) The FACTS we so often "like to forget"

  1. #1
    Luka's Avatar
    Join Date
    23 Jul 06
    Posts
    15,830
    Thanked
    753 times
    Fav. Player
    Black & Blue

    Poland

    (Rafa thread - Yes, another) The FACTS we so often "like to forget"

    Ok, so we have 10 threads or something, in every one of them Rafa is being discussed. I don't want to write it down there, because I'm repeating myself to death now. Also, it's more about the issue of evaluating situation, rather than situation itself. Otherwise I could post it in Nyall thread. Furthemore I wanted to write it for some time now, and now I had some time to finaly sit down and write most of what I think.

    Now lets see. What distinguishes an inteligent human being, from a moron ? I'll say, an inteligent human being tends to think more, than a moron. He thinks before he does something, and he puts a reasonable amount of time before he acts. He also is more resonable and thinks more about the circumstances, he doesn't just look at the surface. He tries to be fair.

    Basicly he ain't blind, and he keeps his eyes open.

    Lets see for example:

    A kid on the street is crying. 2 parents walk towards him, and ask him what happened. He says other kid hit him. 1 parrent doesn't like to think much, he goes to the kid, starts to yell at him, and tells him to appologies and he is not interested in excuses.

    What does the other parrent do however ? Ok, a kid shouldn't hit the other kid, that's always wrong, and he will get his punishment, but he ain't as hasty. He first tries to get more information, and be more objective, before making up his mind completely. So he walks to the other kid, and before saying he was wrong, he asks him why he did it. Now the other kid says, the other kid stole his toy, and didn't want to give it back, even though he asked him to.

    Situation changed a lot, didn't it ? Now the parrent moron, just keeps repeating like a retard, that the kid needs to be punished, because he shouldn't hit the other kid. The other parrent AGREES, but ALSO tries to remind that the situation ain't that simple, and that the kid should be given some slag because he didn't do it without the cause. The first parrent though doesn't like to think about many variables at once, so he just keeps repeating "He hit him! he hit him !"

    This is a basic concept I'm expieriencing lately (no offense). Some will agree upon learning, but then, couple days later, it's like it never happened, and we're to square one.

    Now this is what differs smart, reasonable people, from unreasonable. A reasonable person won't be blind to the surrounding circumstances, unless he can't recognise them at first. But once he does, he will not forget those and he will include all in his view of the situation.

    I have to say. If there is a meating, and say a future of company, or the future buisness plans are being discusses, and there is a list of important circumstances that count, and if somebody forgot about some circumstance when saying something, then there would be either silence, or the CEO would remind him of that circumstance. Either way he would look like an idiot.

    Now to the key point. Anybody who brings up anything here, forgetting, or just ignoring a circumstance while discussing something is just looking (to say it lightly) silly. That's how it is, and I'm sorry for being honest. You can't say Ferguson is a terrible coach, if his first eleven is all injured at once, and then just repeat like a moron, that he had a string of 5 bad games, and forget about this "slight" detail.

    It's even "better" if someone popps up, and says: "But last year he won against the same team 5-0, but now he can't do the same !".

    Ok, so we covered the base of the issue. Now, lets go to the substance. We could fool ourselves, but it's obvious, that everywhere the anaolgy to the Jose era is seen, so lets stick with it.

    "FACTS":

    a) The team was always in the crisis

    Wrong. The team is NOT in crisis since the first week.

    Nobody wondered why this is ? Why nobody screamed crisis before, or why nobody screamed we are dommed ? Why ? Because we weren't. We're in the crisis from my personal feeling since the game after second Tottenham game (that is beginning of november). I think most will agree. This is the time, after which Brescia and Lecce games occured, which I think were the ones.

    Lets see, maybe we'll find some reason for it. Oh here it is... after Tottenham game, we got 0 of our 5 midfielders that would start, if only healthy. (I don't consider Javier midfielder).

    We'll go back to this later.

    b) The team plays bad, and can't play "like Rafa wants".

    True but ONLY RECENTLY. This is pretty funny, considering that this talk FOR REAL started when... ? You got it. Since the second Tottenham game - > midfield completely destroyed afterwards.

    Before that, we had some worse games, but overally I saw many people happy, and even praising Benitez for the way we played (Where are those people now) ?

    So YES, we can't play like Benitez wants NOW, but we COULD when there were still Cambiasso, and Stankovic.

    After Genoa game and second Tottenham game, we were still just points off Lazio, and at the first place in the CL group with Tottenham, DESPITE all other problems that we still had - meaning besides injuries, we still didn't have proper offensive options, some of our key players from last seasons were terribly out of form, so on, so on.

    c) The team shoud lower the deffensive line, cause we're bad deffensively with it.

    AGAIN, this is ONLY since the second Tottenham game. I could say first Tottenham game, if only our players didn't want to hit the showers directly after the 45 minutes. Bale basicly did the same thing 3 times. You can't be sane to say he scored that because he was THAT good, or because we were THAT BAD. He scored because players LET HIM.

    I won't say either way, and it's true our team is not suited perfectly to play like that, but WE DID play like that and even though we had some problems here and there, our team was learning and it didn't look as bad as it is now.

    Also, not many people remembers, that till Genoa game we had the best deffensive record IN THE LEAGUE. 4 goals conceded, and I've read article that said, that neighter Jose in BOTH seasons had better deffensive record at this stage of the season.

    What happened AFTER Genoa game ? Oh right, Cambiasso got injured, and then Muntari (our last midfielder) the very next game.

    d) Atletico and Roma games prove that we were bad before.


    Wrong. The only thing those games prove, is that if players mentaly lost the game before they even entered onto the field, they won't win it on it.

    Whether this is Rafa fault partially, or none, is not important. What's important is to recognise, that players were not up for those games, and should take some fault.

    e) Jose wouldn't allow players to walk onto the field like that.

    WRONG. Genoa home game from last season proves it. Jose couldn't do squat, either from first minute, or after the break. The game ended in 0-0, and it was one of the most boring games ever.

    Jose is mastermind in this aspect, but he ain't God, and he had games like that too.

    f) We should go to how Jose played - counter attacking mode.

    Now this is one of the things I read that amazes me the most. First of all, we didn't play like that all the time. Hell, we didn't even play like that MOST of the time.

    Does people think, that we won against teams like Bari, or Parma, or Bologna, by playing counter attacking game ? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Are people suffering from mass amnesia ? What did we say ? That in Serie A, teams (especialy coming to San Siro) are parking the bus. People think that we won some games of those, by parking the bus, playing low deffensive line, and countering OURSELVES ? OFCOURSE NOT. We had to win those games, while the other team didn't. So we HAD to play possession play football, cause we had NO OTHER CHOICE.

    Jose did play deffensive game, but he did it MOSTLY in the CL last season. And why ? Because FOR THE FIRST TIME we had to face SO MANY good offensive teams, like Barcelona, Bayern, or Chelsea.

    Also, didn't we attack Barcelona in our first game ? Didn't we attack Chelsea in our second game ? Did we park the bus ? No. But I didn't see people accusing Jose of doing that. Why ? CAUSE WE WON. The result determines what people said, not the way we played.

    Granted, we tend to be "more offensive" with Rafa. It seems some players deffend less, sometimes more players are active in the offensive stage which allows teams to counter, and our deffensive line us more often pushed higher up. However this goes in relation with the injuries problems. Before our midfield problems we did play good, and it did work to some extend. I even see people saying, we tend to do better against those "bus parking teams" than we did with Jose.

    Didn't we say at some point, that our team wins ball back very quickly, presses nice, and keeps possesion well ? Didn't we ?

    So what happened ? Injuries happened, that's what. If we could play a lot better before "crisis" occured, then we can do it again, can't we ?

    g) It's Benitez fault that so many players are out of form.

    Apparently, some people say Benitez is at fault for Milito, Maicon, Sneijder, Pandev being out of form. But at the same time forget Quaresma/Mancini case of Jose, or last years Eto'o. What we do about that ?

    Couldn't the "great Jose" do something about it ? Couldn't the "great Jose" help them to find the form by adjusting the team towards them ?

    I've read that Rafa system doesn't help Sneijder, or Milito, or Maicon to get into form. Ok, but what about Jose and Quaresma ? Didn't we all say, that Jose asks Quaresma to do something he ain't good at (deffending) ? Seems that he would do better, if he mostly stay on the other side of the field (something Rafa does now), and not use so much of deffending.

    So as we see, Jose didn't help Quaresma either by those standards.

    So it's basicly like this:
    - under Benitez: Players out of form, his fault
    - under Jose: Players out of form, players fault

    Now, am I the only one seeing something "funny" about that ?

    I do agree, that the coach can "help" the player to find his form, but I disagree that it's coaches fault (or mostly his fault), and especialy I don't like double standards.

    h) Benitez shouldn't use Pandev, it's obvious he should use...

    Who? Some people just like to say, we shouldn't use player A. Ok. True that, but if there is no player playing better, that ain't much of a choice now is it ? And especialy, it's not coaches fault.

    Benitez shouldn't use Pandev. But hold on. He shouldn't use Biabiany either, cause he ain't good enough + he's only good for counters. Rafa also shouldn't use Philippe, cause he is too young, and he also needs more kg on him, before he starts producing.

    Rafa also should bench Milito cause he's terrible.

    Oh, and don't forget. Sneijder is out of form. IT might be a good idea to bench him for one or 2 games.

    . . . . . hold on a minute. Pandev out, Milito out, Biabiany out, Philppe out, Sneijder out, so who the hell is there for Rafa to choose from ?

    Oh right, I forgot about our new cloning facilities. Eto'o number 2, 3 and 4 are almost ready. Probably Rafa is at fault, cause he didn't pick those guys.

    i) Rafa is at fault with injuries

    So so. Could be. But are we blind again ? Maybe the problem is that most of our guys played almost every game ? Didn't we all were at some point angry at Jose who used Zlatan every game ?

    So I'm just thinking. Maybe, just MAYBE the players were simply overused, and now it's the result of that ? It's like overclocking the CPU. It goes on 120% for you, and it's all great. Then you sell it to some guy, and 2 weeks afterwards he finds it broken. Now who's fault is it. The guy who currently has it, or the guys who was using it at 120% before ?

    The only way to find out is over time. If those problems will keep reapeting for the other part of fthe season, and especialy at the beginning of next season, then I will concure, it's Rafa's problem. But till then, it's not CLEAR. Not yet at least.

    j) If Jose stayed, he would motivate the players like shit!


    No team till now could win the CL two times in the row. What's the problem ? You got it. Motivation. No team the following season, looked as "hungry" as the year before. The same coaches, who "did the best work" the previous year, could't repeat it the fofllowing year. Pep tried to make "Gladiators" out of Barca, and even that couldn't work.

    It is very naive to believe, Jose would get from those guys same deal like last year.

    Also, lets not forget. We were in the "siege mentality" for the whole year. That takes toll also I assume. I think players can't be on the edge the whole time. Maybe if you make players play on 120%, the following year they can only play at 80%. But when you make them play on 140%, maybe the following year they are "burned" even more and can play only on 60% ?

    Considering Jose is the best at this sort of thing, maybe the second case is in order ?

    We can safely say, players would look better now, more motivated with Jose. But would it be close to the same as last season ? Very doubtfull.

    k) When injuries happened, Rafa should "go back to Jose system".

    What does it even mean ?

    Like I've said, when you play Brescia at home, you don't play "Jose system", you play to score a goal, and that means possesion play. It doesn't matter if your coach is Benitez or Jose. Jose did the same - possesion play. Not because he liked it, but because other teams didn't give us any choice. If other team is parking the bus, and using 3 players in attack, and just uses counters, you don't play direct game, because it's useless. There is not space for that. What you do ? You play possesion play, just like Rafa does.

    Unless people think, that beating a bus parking team means to do exactly the same on our end ?

    Ok, so we established that we have to attack teams like Brescia or Lecce to win. Why? Because thei coach doesn't say "Let's attack and play possesion football against Inter, so that they can counter us". Their coaches say: "We play safe, and try to score a agoal if it's possible".

    And since we're Inter, we can't sit at our ass and wait for 1 chance in a game to score, even if we have to play Obi and Zanetti in midfield.

    So what we do ? We do what Jose would do. We ATTACK, try to risk more, and try to score a goal, even if it means that we're more likely to loose possesion, and find it harder to distribute a ball because we play Obi and Zanetti.

    l) We are pathetic offensively. We should score more.


    Should we ?

    Well lets see. There is Milito, a scorer of 30 goals last year, who can't hit a goal recently, even if it had 30 meters wide. Then there is Pandev, who is falling more on the ground recently than he runs.

    Then there is Philippe, who was signed as our future star, who now is whistled, because the fate of our team hangs on his shoulders, and he "HAS TO" perform.

    And last, we have Biabiany, a guy who can run.

    Who's left ? Eto'o. Oh right, the only guy who is ON FORM, and the guy that Rafa is not responsbile for (he is only responsible, when players are off form), the guy who saves our ass.

    Have I missed anybody else ? Oh right, other players. Well lets see...

    We have Maicon, a guy who has "Real Madrid, I beg you sign me" written on his forehead since the beginning of the season.

    We have Dejan, who played well, and "suprisingly", when he got injured our team started to sack offensively.

    Then we have Motta who is injured. Then we have Muntari, headless chicken, and couple of primavera guys Obiorah, and Obi.

    Oh, and then there is Cuchu who also scores sometimes. Ooops, injured since the "crisis" era started.

    So, who, who exactly should score those 3 goals every game ???

    m) With Jose we would be ok.

    Now this is my favourite. Some are so blind, so ignorant, that they can only see this:

    Jose won trebble - everything this guy does, no matter what would be success
    Rafa looses recently - excuses no matter, he is crap.

    "With Jose we would be ok". Would we ? With so many players out of form, that even Jose couldn't fix (completely) ? With so many injuries ? With so many players who wouldn't be as motivated as last year ? With no proper offensive signings ?

    I'm sorry to be honest, but I believe even Jose, and this is me LUK speaking, couldn't do MUCH better under the circumstances we're living now. It might get better, but I doubt we would get more than 3 points off the leader of Serie A.

    n) Jose was never wrong, Jose never had bad games, Jose never made wrong subs, Jose never made tactics wrong, Jose would piss on Rafa, Jose would make Milito score 30 goals, Jose is s God, Jose...
    JOSE JOSE JOSE JOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Wrong.

    Jose was at least second best coach in our history, and I will be the first one to say so. But that doesn't make Jose God, or clear any wrong things he did when he was Inter coach. He did few of those, true that, but it's not like some people ridiculously show him to be. This is stunning, that last year I was fighting against most people cause THEY DIDN'T GIVE HIM ENOUGH CREDIT, and now I fith AGAIN against most people cause they give him TOO MUCH CREDIT.

    Pretty ironic. I wonder, why am not called Jose basher yet.

    Jose had poor games, Jose made mistakes, Jose set up the team wrong. It all happened, although not often.


    FACTS:

    1) Injuries problems.


    The problems we're facing now, Jose had never have. 1 injury in every formation, is not the same as having one formation completely out especialy if it's the most formation in every team - midfield.

    2) The league last year was weaker than it is now, just like it was weaker before Jose arrived.

    This is pretty clear. Basicly, if I've said (and rightfully so) when deffending Jose, that he has a more difficult job than Mancini had, then I also has the same reason now, to say that Rafa has more difficult job to what Jose had.

    3) Jose got what he wanted, Rafa didn't.

    Self explanatory. Some said, Sneijder was washout, Lucio was unwanted, Eto'o was unwanted.

    Va bene. My question: What "washed out", "unwanted" has to do with the quality of fthe player ? IF Messi was unwanted by Barca tomorrow, does it mean, Mancini iss better than him ?

    Lucio was unwanted because Van Gaal was a moron. Sneijder was unwanted, because the Perez was looking for scapegoats, and also Wes didn't fit their system best. Eto'o was unwanted by Barca, for reasons Pep only knows why.

    But they ALL were very good players. If we got any players this year, who would have "similar problems" it would only benefit the team. The fact is, WE DIDN'T.

    Everybody. Everbody knew we needed offensive reinforcments. I won't even bring up the fact we wanted a proper left back, and a midfielder who ain't injured for 2/3 of the season. But offensive reinforcments, especialy with Balotelli going was a MUST. Loosing Balotelli was correct. NOT GETTING anybody was a mistake.


    4) Players seem LOT less motivated, and lacking a drive to win.


    This is obvious. Some say it's Rafa's responsibility, and it is to some extend. But it's not only his fault, if players aren't motivated after winning the biggest success they had in their life. You can't fool the nature.

    5) Key players for this team are out of form

    We could play that well last year, because players performed. Some even more than that. What would happen to our trebble winning team, if we took out Milito from the final of CL ? Or Sneijder from Chelsea away game. Now you get the picture.

    6) Last season, with ALL our strength, we barely won the scudetto.

    Ok, someone might say, we played in CL till the end, and CI and it all had it's toll. Rightfully said. But that doesn't excuse the board from not noticing the signs, especialy since all our direct competitors got STRONGER (Roma, Juve, Milan).

    7) You can't bring stats of draw-loss-draw-loss-win, without LOOKING closesely at those games.

    If a team has 40 chances to score every game, but looses 5 games in the end, due to mistakes of deffenderes, and blunders of strikers, is it without any importance ? Sampdoria draw shouldn't be a draw. We were good enough to win this game, but didn't.

    What's the difference, between say our Samp game, and 2 years ago Chievo game (the one Maicon scored from offside) ?

    LUCK. Jose had this luck, especialy last season. What game this year, we can file under this cathegory. Easily:

    Genoa. Palermo (to some degree) and Cagliari (to some degree). What games did we had recently (in our crises) that we had some luck on our side ? NONE.

    Samp, Lecce, Brescia, those were all games we could have won, because in all those games we were better, and in some we should have won, if only world was fair.

    8) Jose also TOOK TIME before he got the most out of the team.

    Now some will say, ok Jose experimented in hiss first season with 4-3-3, and all, but he didn't have as bad situation as Rafa has now.

    True. But he didn't have all those circumstances either, now had he

    9) Jose Mourinho did last year something, that could not be done by any other Serie A team in the history - meaning: it was something EXTRAORDINARY

    Lets look what had to happen before we could even think of winning the trebble:

    - Jose had to get players to fit his system
    - The injuries couldn't occure, especialy during second part of the season, and especialy to offensive players
    - Many of the players had to have the form of their life like Milito, Maicon, Sneijder, so on...
    - We had to have some luck

    Lets see what we have now during this "crisis". Oh right, neigher of those.

    Does anybody believe that had any of those circumstances didn't occure with Jose during second part of the season, we would still win the trebble ? Like if Milito and Sneijder were gone/out of form.

    Really ?

    10) We didn't have yet games that would ABSOLUTELY require to play similary to Jose in CL last year.

    That means playing against teams like Barca, Real, Man Utd, Bayern etc. Unless someone calls Atletico that, or Tottenham (except second game, but this was also some blame in Rafa that I already covered in his thread) ? Currently we didn't have a game that it would be suicide to play differently to how Jose played with our team. I mean, ofcourse it would be wise, to do it recently, but I guess nobody of us would like us to see deffend, against LEcce, or Brescia now would it ?

    11) Rafa is NOT WITHOUT A BLAME.

    Yes, I believe, that if we had different coach, who wouldn't do mistakes on his part alone, we would do better, even with all those circumstances. I believe Rafa did some blunders, like playing the way he did versus Tottenham the second game. I also believe we should do better (look better) against teams like Lecce and Brescia.

    But at the same time, I don't believe in magic workers. People thinking that a new coach will somehow make all those circumstances disapear, and it's not the case, unless they think Rafa is responsible for all those circumstances, which to me is very, very naive.

    ...

    Now what' the trick ? The trick now, is not to pick 1, 4,a b and c and forget the rest. The trick is remember it ALL when discussing about those issues, and especialy when discussing Rafa in relevance to last seasons.

    Why I don't want Rafa sacked ? I don't want him sacked, because I keep track of this list ^^^. It's because I know, that if this list was much shorter, it could have been much different.

    It doesn't mean, Rafa can now go and loose every game till the end of the season. Obviously he has to start to win again, and at least make the ratio better, especialy against worse teams. But at the same time I will remember all those circumstances, and I will not expect Rafa to win almost every game, like he would have to had we have proper reinforcments and no major injuries and other problems that we have now.

    People like to say about how Rafa "destroyed this team", as if we had 1, 2 injuries, as if Massimo did what Rafa wanted and got him 2, 3 new players, as if Milito, Maicon, Sneijder looked decent. The fact is, it's not the case.

    IF, Rafa saves the situation to some extend (we have to get closer to Milan, to say 3 points, or AT LEAST not make the gap bigger), what we have to do is this:

    - wait until injuries will stop screwing us, especialy the return of Cambiasso, Stankovic and MOTTA !!!
    - wait until Milito, Maicon and Sneijder will wake up
    - BUY REINFORCMENTS that we needed already in summer
    - get some luck, or at least, loose the "un-luck"
    - be patient

    I still believe Rafa is very good coach, who would do a lot better if he wasn't as unlucky now (alongside us). I believe that IF we stick with him, and if Moratti will do what he should do before, I believe it will be better. Much better.

    I hope what Massimo said is genuine. I hope he realises (unlike many others, unfortunetly) that Benitez is not the major reason why we are in a situation we're now. I hope he stays, I hope Massimo will finaly loose his blindfold, and spend some money. I hope Rafa gets what he should have already got in the summer, and then show what he can do.

    And this I wish for myself, and for all you, for all interisti brethren.

    ps. If somebody wants to make a reply with dozen of quotes with parts of my post, please don't. This is not a post to start discussing every other paragraph, I don't want to enter in discussion like this. IF somebody has objections, it's better if he picks 1, 2 biggest issues for him at a time that he has objections to and present it.
    Last edited by Luka; 16 Nov 10 at 19:40.
    Quote of the week:
    "Farewell - Let the Good Times Roll"
    --------------------------------------------------------
    F.C. INTERNAZIONALE, DEPECHE MODE, UNIA TARNOW - Nothing more...

  2. #2
    Toninu's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Oct 06
    Posts
    9,920
    Thanked
    4,714 times
    Fav. Player
    Walter Samuel

    Brazil

    71 Forum Supporter 10 years of FIF
    Finally some sense, I agree with you completely Luka, we can't solely blame Rafa yes he does share some blame but it's not totally him, there other factors which are influencing our bad period and in my opinion they overshadow Rafa's inadequacies which imo aren't much. Thanks for finally giving some objectivity rather than the cluster fucks of stupid posts we've been getting from the drama queens and the fact that some of them say things like you have a lot of free time basically means that reason isn't good enough for them to explain our situation just take the easy way out and use Rafa as a scapegoat. Luka I salute you

  3. #3
    Luka's Avatar
    Join Date
    23 Jul 06
    Posts
    15,830
    Thanked
    753 times
    Fav. Player
    Black & Blue

    Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by Toninu View Post
    Finally some sense, I agree with you completely Luka, we can't solely blame Rafa yes he does share some blame but it's not totally him, there other factors which are influencing our bad period and in my opinion they overshadow Rafa's inadequacies which imo aren't much.
    I'm glad there are still people on these boards with common sense, like you Toninu, or Rain, or Rockball (and few others)

    ...

    Ok, I was going to write about injuries, although Rafa already got me to it (for some part) with his interviews after the game.

    "Who speaks of the preparation as the sole cause of injuries is a 100% ignorant. I work for 25 years, graduated ISEF, I have a partner who knows the physical aspect very well. This team has been squeezed to 100% 'last year, players older than one year and has spent so much psychologically. With my staff we had a ricrìerca and we found a number of reasons such as age, previous injury etc. .... Those who accuse only the preparation does not know what they talk about"

    Ok Rafa might got a little too overconfident after the win, and wanted to shut up this talk, I don't take it all with blind faith what he said, but I believe he isn't talking without much sense. He also mentioned some things I already wanted to say previously.

    First of all: Rafa's Liverpool was known for pressing CONSTANTLY. Pool fans said so themselves. They also said, for Rafa sometimes it's more important how much players work on the field, rather then the skill itself (see Kuyt). What does it mean ? It means, for Rafa athetic preparation of the team is key, he puts a lot of emphasis on it, and he wants the team to be prepared for a lot of running/pressing in the season etc. That means, a lot of athetic work.

    Do you guys remember how we played under Jose ? You got it, very little pressing, low deffensive line, and mostly waiting for opponent to make a mistake. We had very few games where we tried to press high, and where we tried to "outrun" the opponent. This all helped players from not getting too many injuries that were based on the worload.

    Now how we STARTED this season? You got it again. A lot of pressing, trying to win the ball high up the pitch, right ? Didn't we love it ?

    So, did we have so many injuries ? NO. Did we have many injuries before the season started ? NO. When the injuries started to happen ? After 4-6 weeks of the season of PLAYING exactly like that - constant running etc. What it means ? It means, the players were not USED to it + the last season, and so the boddies started to protest. But does it have to be like that always ? No. The players just need to adjust, and it takes time, but once they do I believe they will be able to run as much as they did at the beginning of the season, which we loved. (or even more, as Rafa said he didn't do as much athetic work as at Liverpool this year)

    Second of all: Our key players played A LOT last year, and were also drained psychologicaly. This is not debatable, and I think everybody will agree. I think also everybody will agree that it's fair to say that it took some toll (some say more some less, but I think it's undeniable that it DID take some toll) on those players.

    Third of all: People forget that injuries are NORMAL. I'm not saying it's normal that a team has 15 players injured at once. What I'm saying is that whoever it would be at the bench, we would still get injuries and whoever gets injury people forget about it. It seems like people accuse Benitez of every injury that is occuring that has muscle grounds. Jose got a fair share of muscle injuries himself, aside from other injuries.

    Fourth of all: EVEN if Benitez made a mistake and put too much workload on the players, can't he learn from this mistake. It already happened, we already got the injury crisis, so it won't change nothing (in this regard) if we'll get a new coach, or not. It would only matter if we would CONSTANTLY get those injuries, meaning every month, every season. Now, how it's possible, that a coach who makes such a mistakes, was so succesfull in his carear (speak what you won, but he did quite a few things). If he was a coach, who would constantly make such a mistakes with preparations, it would be quite a mystery, 1) how he was able to stay with Valencia/Liverpool for so long, and 2) how he was able to win.

    What I'm getting is, that it's very pessimistic to believe that with Benitez we will get those problems every season.

    Fifth of all: I want to emphasis again that our players are suffering from a change from Jose training workloads and Benitez. I think it is obvious. As we remember, Jose changed his way last year, and implemented a different methods, that would still prepare players for the season, but there was less athetic works, and everything was going with the ball. On the other hand, Benitez was used to preparing players in EPL, a league that is known by constant running, great atletic preparations. Lets not forget that Liverpool of Benitez was known for constant running, pressing.

    What I'm getting at, is that this MIGHT BE just a temporary thing. Our players bodies are simply adjustng to Benitez preps. BUT it doesn't have to mean, that it's for the worse. MAYBE our players, when adjusted, will look better (in the longrun), maybe those methods of Rafa will help the players to look better physicaly, like I've said ONCE they are adjusted ?

    THAT would be confirmed, if the players who already got those injuries would not get them again during this season, or AT LEAST all except for few single cases.

    Unfortunetly, that would mean, that muscle injuries are not done. I think there is fair chance, more are coming, from other players, who didn't have those yet, but the good thing is that, if that theory is correct, we're already past the worse.

    Sixth of all: Ok, but how do we explain the players who didn't play most of last season, or new players who were playing somewhere else, or young players. Here there are 2 possibilities. Luck - simply players got injury, just like players under Jose got them. Second possibility, is the same as with players at Inter. They were not adjusted in the teams before to the athetic workloads of Rafa, who as we've said before was known with Liverpool for a lot of running (meaning their players had to have a lot of atlethic work during pre-season to prepare them for this).

    But I think what Rafa should do, is make some of a middle plan, to help players adjust gradually to his ways. That is ofcourse if he will stay at Inter. He needs to maybe work something out with the new players that will come at Inter, unless they come from teams like Werder (who knows Schaaf, knows what I'm talking about).

    Rafa said in the interview, that he HAD to take a notch down from his liverpool regimes (that just shows, how much Liverpool players did to prepare them for the season), because of Inter having such a season last year, but it seems that it was not enough + players weren't yet able to run in every game.

    ...

    Only time can tell, if I'm right in all of this, and I hope Rafa will stay so that we will find out. IF our players kept having same problems, especialy at the beginning of the next season, then I'd agree Rafa made too many mistakes, and although he might get it right eventually, it would be time for a change.

    But Rafa ain't a moron I believe, and he didn't achieve succeses by being at the same time completely inept in preparing teams. He is coach long enough, his atletic guys also must know what they are doing. They might understand some short time ago, that they made a mistake, and put too much atlethic work before the season for this team, who wasn't ready, but I believe it is temporary, and once the players HAD the muscle injuries, they will be over it, and the next year it should be completely different story.
    Quote of the week:
    "Farewell - Let the Good Times Roll"
    --------------------------------------------------------
    F.C. INTERNAZIONALE, DEPECHE MODE, UNIA TARNOW - Nothing more...

  4. #4
    nerazzurri4life's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Jul 07
    Posts
    5,855
    Thanked
    7,565 times
    Fav. Player
    Mancini

    Trinidad & Tobago

    45
    sorry but luka, you're a complete idiot

    i was gonna try to read your post but after "first of all", i have come to the realization that you really just talk a lot of shit that you have NO CLUE about. You try to come up with all these "common sense" ideas just to support your stance, but when "common sense" goes against your stance, you invent all these theories/hypotheses and other shit that is completely baseless.

    i really suggest you read some books/research on exercise physiology, overload training, periodization, or just kinesiology in general before you start talking crap about training methods. You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about it. Period.

    You watch Real play this season? They all press high and constantly. They were not doing that last year. We didn't do it last year either. All their players played in world cup. How did Jose get them to do that? How come none of their players are dropping like flies with muscular injuries?

    You watch Barca play. They press high and constantly, something they didn't do under Rijkaard. All their players play the MOST GAMES period. Messi, Xavi, Dani Alves, Pique, Puyol play TONS OF GAMES year in year out. How did Pep get them to do that? How come none of their players are dropping like flies with muscular injuries?



    And for the last time, stop with this shit about "we were playing great in the beginning" or "we were playing better against the small teams". I already asked you to tell me exactly what games we were "great" and exactly what "small teams we played better against" and as usual, you stopped because you couldn't provide any sort of evidence to justify your claim ergo, you were talking shit again.


    Don't even answer to this post. I just want you to know that I KNOW you are full of shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    In what way is the rivalry with Juventus and Milan different?

    “There is no comparison. On one hand, we have a duel within the city, a constant and direct confrontation. On the other, we have a historical hostility. Sportingly speaking, the real enemy is Juventus.”

  5. #5
    Luka's Avatar
    Join Date
    23 Jul 06
    Posts
    15,830
    Thanked
    753 times
    Fav. Player
    Black & Blue

    Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by nerazzurri4life View Post
    You watch Real play this season? They all press high and constantly. They were not doing that last year. We didn't do it last year either. All their players played in world cup. How did Jose get them to do that? How come none of their players are dropping like flies with muscular injuries?
    I didn't watch them, except for 1, 2 games, so I can't speak about it, cause I didn't see them enough.

    You watch Barca play. They press high and constantly, something they didn't do under Rijkaard. All their players play the MOST GAMES period. Messi, Xavi, Dani Alves, Pique, Puyol play TONS OF GAMES year in year out. How did Pep get them to do that? How come none of their players are dropping like flies with muscular injuries?
    Probably because they're used to it by now. I also don't know how the training regimes were different between Rijkard and Guardiola. If they were very alike, then there wasn't much problem.

    And for the last time, stop with this shit about "we were playing great in the beginning" or "we were playing better against the small teams". I already asked you to tell me exactly what games we were "great" and exactly what "small teams we played better against" and as usual, you stopped because you couldn't provide any sort of evidence to justify your claim ergo, you were talking shit again.
    How bout this:

    I will stop saying that "we were playing great in the beginning", or "we were playing better against the small teams", if you stop saying that Benitez must be fired for this team to play better and start getting results.

    It's a deal ?

    Don't even answer to this post. I just want you to know that I KNOW you are full of shit.
    I'm happy for you. Then you have nothing to worry about. Benitez will fail like you've been saying (from the beginning, am I recalling it right?) no matter what I say.

    BTW, from the guy who wants Dunga to coach Inter, I couldn't expect anything less

    ps. "Don't even answer to this post" ? What is this, a fascist Berlin 1945 ?
    Quote of the week:
    "Farewell - Let the Good Times Roll"
    --------------------------------------------------------
    F.C. INTERNAZIONALE, DEPECHE MODE, UNIA TARNOW - Nothing more...

  6. #6
    Almirony's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Mar 10
    Posts
    218
    Thanked
    1 times
    Fav. Player
    No Milan player

    Bosnia Herzegovina

    Quote Originally Posted by Luk View Post
    Exactly. Last year. If we won the treble with the same team the year before, and we did with no problems last year you would have a point. But Milito didn't play as much the year prior. Sneijder same thing. So on, so on.

    A lot of players that have problems now played most of last season. We add to it WC, we add to it a change from Jose preps last season (all work done with the ball, a "revolutionary" way of working) and we get more injuries. To me it sounds logical.

    If these problems would continue for the rest of the season, AND if those problems would repeat in the beginning of next season, then I would WITH NO PROBLEMS agreed, that now we have evidence that Rafa just blew it. But to me it's too early, and there are too many things that point out to something else than (just) the methods of Benitez and his staff.

    I forgot also to mention, he also speaks about psychological aspect of this, something you laughed about when I mentioned it.
    Just simple answer, look at Barca and Real players. They played same amount of games for two years in a row as we did.

  7. #7
    Suneet's Avatar
    Join Date
    13 Sep 06
    Posts
    16,285
    Thanked
    2,061 times
    Fav. Player
    # 3

    India

    Forum Supporter
    Tactical genius who took 4 months to figure out our best formation? All he needed to do was ignore Mou's comment and throw his ego away.

    Rafa has a lot to prove now. He has changed stuff and took one step back from his "ideal" strategy and if he's a genius, then he woudnt change something that worked all of last season...


    Everything a man should be. We miss you Cipe.




  8. #8
    Luka's Avatar
    Join Date
    23 Jul 06
    Posts
    15,830
    Thanked
    753 times
    Fav. Player
    Black & Blue

    Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by Almirony View Post
    Just simple answer, look at Barca and Real players. They played same amount of games for two years in a row as we did.
    You're not getting what I'm saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suneet View Post
    Tactical genius who took 4 months to figure out our best formation? All he needed to do was ignore Mou's comment and throw his ego away.

    Rafa has a lot to prove now. He has changed stuff and took one step back from his "ideal" strategy and if he's a genius, then he woudnt change something that worked all of last season...
    Ehhh. You guys are very hard to please. Take Milito out of the team of last 2 months of last season and our season would most likely look different. We got A LOT lucky last year. It's incredible that we even pulled it off, when we think about how many things had to go our way, and yet THIS is the standard we live to. It's not. That season is special and although we did incredibly well, it couldn't never be repeated - meaning: we would play worse either way (with or without Jose).

    Fact is, that because we won this trebble, a lot of stuff was forgotten, but it the season was not as rosy. Playing "our style" did not always work. And wasn't you Suneed who ADMITED that in your opinion we looked better against parking bus teams in Serie A at the beginning of the season ?

    ps. Some people said it took Jose 2 months before "the genius" figured out 4-3-3 doesn't work. How it's different from Rafa's learning expierience. Jose got his time, but Rafa can't ?
    Quote of the week:
    "Farewell - Let the Good Times Roll"
    --------------------------------------------------------
    F.C. INTERNAZIONALE, DEPECHE MODE, UNIA TARNOW - Nothing more...

  9. #9
    skeet's Avatar
    Join Date
    09 Sep 09
    Posts
    4,108
    Thanked
    1,219 times
    Fav. Player
    Javier Zanetti

    Kuwait

    37
    Quote Originally Posted by Luk View Post
    You're not getting what I'm saying.


    Ehhh. You guys are very hard to please. Take Milito out of the team of last 2 months of last season and our season would most likely look different. We got A LOT lucky last year. It's incredible that we even pulled it off, when we think about how many things had to go our way, and yet THIS is the standard we live to. It's not. That season is special and although we did incredibly well, it couldn't never be repeated - meaning: we would play worse either way (with or without Jose).

    Fact is, that because we won this trebble, a lot of stuff was forgotten, but it the season was not as rosy. Playing "our style" did not always work. And wasn't you Suneed who ADMITED that in your opinion we looked better against parking bus teams in Serie A at the beginning of the season ?

    ps. Some people said it took Jose 2 months before "the genius" figured out 4-3-3 doesn't work. How it's different from Rafa's learning expierience. Jose got his time, but Rafa can't ?
    the difference is that jose didn't wait until our season was in jeopardy before changing his tactics

  10. #10
    Suneet's Avatar
    Join Date
    13 Sep 06
    Posts
    16,285
    Thanked
    2,061 times
    Fav. Player
    # 3

    India

    Forum Supporter
    Quote Originally Posted by Luk View Post
    You're not getting what I'm saying.


    Ehhh. You guys are very hard to please. Take Milito out of the team of last 2 months of last season and our season would most likely look different. We got A LOT lucky last year. It's incredible that we even pulled it off, when we think about how many things had to go our way, and yet THIS is the standard we live to. It's not. That season is special and although we did incredibly well, it couldn't never be repeated - meaning: we would play worse either way (with or without Jose).

    Fact is, that because we won this trebble, a lot of stuff was forgotten, but it the season was not as rosy. Playing "our style" did not always work. And wasn't you Suneed who ADMITED that in your opinion we looked better against parking bus teams in Serie A at the beginning of the season ?

    ps. Some people said it took Jose 2 months before "the genius" figured out 4-3-3 doesn't work. How it's different from Rafa's learning expierience. Jose got his time, but Rafa can't ?
    When did I say it will always work? I have always said, it will work most of the time.

    And Jose got his time because the team was top of Serie A, Rafa cant because he's what 6th-7th. We havent scored against the likes of Roma, Milan and Jube. Apart from the Milan game(where the players gave their all, but it wasnt meant to be with our high defence and their 2 lines of 4 defenders), we barely even looked like scoring. Lots of things count Luka, if we are hard to please, you are 3X harder to get out point across. Where is my "you are telling me" post? I saw your reply on that one and it smacked of the fact that you will go to any lengths to defend Rafa where he has made obvious mistakes...

    I'm not saying again that Jose didnt make any I'm saying, inspite of them he got the team results. Injuries are NOT the only reason. If you deny that Luka, then all you are looking for is alibis. I'm not trying to be rude, but like you are using injuries to defends Rafa's supposedly high quality of genius, I'm using his tactical mistakes to prove he's not as good as made out to be.


    Everything a man should be. We miss you Cipe.




  11. #11
    Luka's Avatar
    Join Date
    23 Jul 06
    Posts
    15,830
    Thanked
    753 times
    Fav. Player
    Black & Blue

    Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by Suneet View Post
    I'm not saying again that Jose didnt make any I'm saying, inspite of them he got the team results. Injuries are NOT the only reason. If you deny that Luka, then all you are looking for is alibis. I'm not trying to be rude, but like you are using injuries to defends Rafa's supposedly high quality of genius, I'm using his tactical mistakes to prove he's not as good as made out to be.
    OK, you have every right to judge him tacticaly. But surely, he deserves a fair chance, and that means injuries gone, some time with the team, and hopefully couple of purchases.

    Under the right conditions I will judge him too, but IMO it is unfair to do it now. When the time comes YES, obviously, and I'm not looking for any excuses. I believe I'm being fair.

    And Jose got his time because the team was top of Serie A, Rafa cant because he's what 6th-7th.
    Quote Originally Posted by skeet View Post
    the difference is that jose didn't wait until our season was in jeopardy before changing his tactics
    Like I've said in the first post of this thread, which is the key:

    - we didn't win the trebble the year before - slump in motivation/determination
    - the difference between us and the league wasn't shorthned like this year, especialy due to Milans buys
    - injuries

    Those are some of the things you guys forget constantly when bringing your comparisons with Jose times. OK, it is a a FACT Rafa's situation in the league ain't as good as Joses, but the facts are also the things I've put up there (only to mention few).

    AND even with all other things (except for the injuries) that really started to hurt us (which was since the second Tottenham game), we were second in the league, just couple points off Lazio, and we were still on the first spot in CL with Tottenham.

    Sometimes I feel like you guys (the ones who criticise Benitez the most) act like we're in this "crisis" (play crap, bad gameplay etc. etc.) since day one. That's just my impression. We're NOT. It just happened recently, and before, although we didn't play great, we were WAY better than now. That's why a crisis is called a crisis, but it will pass, and hopefully it already is passing.

    And again I ask you bro, weren't you who ADMITED that in your opinion we looked better against parking bus teams in Serie A at the beginning of the season ? Weren't you ?
    Quote of the week:
    "Farewell - Let the Good Times Roll"
    --------------------------------------------------------
    F.C. INTERNAZIONALE, DEPECHE MODE, UNIA TARNOW - Nothing more...

  12. #12
    brehme1989's Avatar
    Join Date
    17 Jan 05
    Posts
    8,495
    Thanked
    557 times

    Greece

    10 years of FIF
    Quote Originally Posted by Toninu View Post
    I've been supporting Inter for 10 years and he's in a terrible situation because his whole team is drained mentally and physically after a great season followed by a world cup, the club did not sign any players for him and plus our rivals are stronger than ever. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word terrible but it's still not good. No coach could do well in this situation, we're suffering due to fatigue and a lack of signings.
    Are you sure you remember all of those 10 years? I assume you mean 2000/1.

    Where we probably had our worst mercato ever, thinking it was a great one (Vampeta, Robbie Keane, Hakan Sukur) with Ronaldo out for the season who happened to be our best player at the time... which season also includes a terrible defeat vs Milan.

    Also, our rivals are stronger than ever? What is ever? Starting from 2000, I want you to remind yourself of these teams

    Honestly, Roma? 2000-2004?
    Lazio 2000-2? (including 2002 for obvious reasons)
    juve merda 2000-2006
    milan merda 2000-2005
    Parma 2001-4

    The only team that is stronger than its previous state 10 years ago, is us. And over those years in general.
    You honestly believe that our rivals are now "stronger than ever" in the 10 year span you've been following Inter?
    I've been following Inter in the last 15 years and the past 4 seasons have been laughable in terms of competition, including this one. There's competition for 2nd to 7th position from day 1. We managed to open up the #1 slot with Benitez this year. And even if injuries played a big part, I want you to dig up in your memory reservoirs and check the 2000-5 period and see how many injuries our players have suffered then.

    And back then even we were also massacred by the refs. Now it's much calmer than that. Now there's no other excuses. It's either the coach or the players. The same exact players have won the treble. It's not them. Has to be the coach. And if you wanna play the fatigue card, then why is Barcelona still so darn good? 2 important transfers made, coach rotates his team a lot, team reached semis of CL, won the domestic league, half of the team even won the World Cup... what fatigue are we talking about? 1 month vacation not enough for our players? And 2 months of pre-season not enough to prepare the team for the season?
    Yes, we should have bought a new striker in, one that would accept the bench for most part being behind Eto'o and Milito. Yes, we needed a left back. Yes, we needed another midfielder. Did Rafa threaten to leave if Moratti didn't sign anyone? Did Rafa sign a contract with Inter knowing he'd have the same exact team as last season? What is it? Did Rafa say I want new players but if no one comes it's still fine? Would he risk to have his reputation tarnished like that?
    The answer is unknown to us, but it doesn't take a nuclear scientist or a psychiatrist to figure out that the man wanted to prove he can do better than Mourinho with the same exact team. Transfer policy suggests that and there's nothing to prove things otherwise.

    So we are the best Inter team of the decade (since the same team won the treble + Coutinho & Biabiany - Balotelli) and our rivals are NOT as strong as ever (that is actually laughable). Rafa Benitez has managed to make his name synonumous with Inter's failure. That is all the "facts" we have. Be it because of injuries, be it because we hit the post 7 times a game and don't score but concede one, be it because his tactics are ridiculous... whatever reason there might be, Rafael Benitez has failed Inter. And the ship is sinking. It can either be helped with objects that will hold the draining for a while or it can be changed with a new captain who will repair the ship and set it back on course. Rafa has even lost his map, he has no clue of where he's going (I can't be bothered to quote him when he repeats after every loss the same stories...)


    [posted this by accident on flamers paradise Rafa thread, so that is 5, so I post it here where it's more appropriate. also I seen Toninu's post from Luka's signature that's why I responded]

  13. #13
    skeet's Avatar
    Join Date
    09 Sep 09
    Posts
    4,108
    Thanked
    1,219 times
    Fav. Player
    Javier Zanetti

    Kuwait

    37
    Quote Originally Posted by Luk View Post
    Like I've said in the first post of this thread, which is the key:

    - we didn't win the trebble the year before - slump in motivation/determination
    - the difference between us and the league wasn't shorthned like this year, especialy due to Milans buys
    - injuries

    Those are some of the things you guys forget constantly when bringing your comparisons with Jose times. OK, it is a a FACT Rafa's situation in the league ain't as good as Joses, but the facts are also the things I've put up there (only to mention few).

    AND even with all other things (except for the injuries) that really started to hurt us (which was since the second Tottenham game), we were second in the league, just couple points off Lazio, and we were still on the first spot in CL with Tottenham.

    Sometimes I feel like you guys (the ones who criticise Benitez the most) act like we're in this "crisis" (play crap, bad gameplay etc. etc.) since day one. That's just my impression. We're NOT. It just happened recently, and before, although we didn't play great, we were WAY better than now. That's why a crisis is called a crisis, but it will pass, and hopefully it already is passing.
    all of that has absolutely nothing to do with rafa's DECISION to change tactics

    And again I ask you bro, weren't you who ADMITED that in your opinion we looked better against parking bus teams in Serie A at the beginning of the season ? Weren't you ?
    to be honest i don't recall saying that, but i wouldn't deny saying it

    do you want to know why we stopped looking good against small teams? because ranieri decided to play like us from last season and sit deep and counter, and that earned an idiot like ranieri a deserved win over us

    what does that have to do with small teams? well, other teams thought "hey, that could work!" and we haven't scored more than 1 goal against a serie a team ever since because benitez's tactics are as predictable as charlie sheen getting caught with another hooker

  14. #14
    bibonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Apr 10
    Posts
    2,180
    Thanked
    523 times
    Fav. Player
    Ronaldo, Recoba

    Croatia

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuko View Post
    Are you sure you remember all of those 10 years? I assume you mean 2000/1.

    Where we probably had our worst mercato ever, thinking it was a great one (Vampeta, Robbie Keane, Hakan Sukur) with Ronaldo out for the season who happened to be our best player at the time... which season also includes a terrible defeat vs Milan.

    Also, our rivals are stronger than ever? What is ever? Starting from 2000, I want you to remind yourself of these teams

    Honestly, Roma? 2000-2004?
    Lazio 2000-2? (including 2002 for obvious reasons)
    juve merda 2000-2006
    milan merda 2000-2005
    Parma 2001-4

    The only team that is stronger than its previous state 10 years ago, is us. And over those years in general.
    You honestly believe that our rivals are now "stronger than ever" in the 10 year span you've been following Inter?
    I've been following Inter in the last 15 years and the past 4 seasons have been laughable in terms of competition, including this one. There's competition for 2nd to 7th position from day 1. We managed to open up the #1 slot with Benitez this year. And even if injuries played a big part, I want you to dig up in your memory reservoirs and check the 2000-5 period and see how many injuries our players have suffered then.

    And back then even we were also massacred by the refs. Now it's much calmer than that. Now there's no other excuses. It's either the coach or the players. The same exact players have won the treble. It's not them. Has to be the coach. And if you wanna play the fatigue card, then why is Barcelona still so darn good? 2 important transfers made, coach rotates his team a lot, team reached semis of CL, won the domestic league, half of the team even won the World Cup... what fatigue are we talking about? 1 month vacation not enough for our players? And 2 months of pre-season not enough to prepare the team for the season?
    Yes, we should have bought a new striker in, one that would accept the bench for most part being behind Eto'o and Milito. Yes, we needed a left back. Yes, we needed another midfielder. Did Rafa threaten to leave if Moratti didn't sign anyone? Did Rafa sign a contract with Inter knowing he'd have the same exact team as last season? What is it? Did Rafa say I want new players but if no one comes it's still fine? Would he risk to have his reputation tarnished like that?
    The answer is unknown to us, but it doesn't take a nuclear scientist or a psychiatrist to figure out that the man wanted to prove he can do better than Mourinho with the same exact team. Transfer policy suggests that and there's nothing to prove things otherwise.

    So we are the best Inter team of the decade (since the same team won the treble + Coutinho & Biabiany - Balotelli) and our rivals are NOT as strong as ever (that is actually laughable). Rafa Benitez has managed to make his name synonumous with Inter's failure. That is all the "facts" we have. Be it because of injuries, be it because we hit the post 7 times a game and don't score but concede one, be it because his tactics are ridiculous... whatever reason there might be, Rafael Benitez has failed Inter. And the ship is sinking. It can either be helped with objects that will hold the draining for a while or it can be changed with a new captain who will repair the ship and set it back on course. Rafa has even lost his map, he has no clue of where he's going (I can't be bothered to quote him when he repeats after every loss the same stories...)


    [posted this by accident on flamers paradise Rafa thread, so that is 5, so I post it here where it's more appropriate. also I seen Toninu's post from Luka's signature that's why I responded]
    Very well said Yuko, I was also thinking of addressing this issue since people tend to bring that a lot recently but I gave up on discussing this. You can even add to that list Fiorentina that was also a force back in the days. We were like 4-5 team in terms of quality in that period.

  15. #15
    delaurentis's Avatar
    Join Date
    05 Dec 09
    Posts
    453
    Thanked
    195 times
    Fav. Player
    4,19,22,25

    Belgium

    Look Luka you are twisting and turning like a Virgin.

    Doing what Rafa has done = handling players like objects instead of humans.

    Rafa would win Scudetto with Inter on Football manager or Fifa but in real life there are struggles. I'd even go as far to say if Inter have any succes it will wholeheartly be down to the players (just how Madrid won CL against JuBe) Such is the damage and confidence I had in this man gone. I've seen things I do not like.... And I'm not talking about results but much more then that.

  16. #16
    Luka's Avatar
    Join Date
    23 Jul 06
    Posts
    15,830
    Thanked
    753 times
    Fav. Player
    Black & Blue

    Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by skeet View Post
    all of that has absolutely nothing to do with rafa's DECISION to change tactics
    It would change very little if he tried playing differently earlier. Our problems have main roots not in tactics but in other things. I know you guys believe that, but having half the team injured might be "slightly" more important imo.

    If the tactics of Benitez were the problem, then what's the difference between the season till 2nd Tottetenham game, and the period afterwards ? We basicly played similarly for this whole time, so if the crisis started, the problem of this must lie somewhere else.

    Besides, it's just one game, and something tells me that this was just an exception of a rule, when we talk about playing against certain type of teams.

    to be honest i don't recall saying that, but i wouldn't deny saying it

    do you want to know why we stopped looking good against small teams? because ranieri decided to play like us from last season and sit deep and counter, and that earned an idiot like ranieri a deserved win over us

    what does that have to do with small teams? well, other teams thought "hey, that could work!" and we haven't scored more than 1 goal against a serie a team ever since because benitez's tactics are as predictable as charlie sheen getting caught with another hooker
    That was directed to Suneet.

    ps. The teams are parking the bus against us for years. Stop making up stuff. It's not a "new invention".

    Quote Originally Posted by delaurentis View Post
    Look Luka you are twisting and turning like a Virgin.

    Doing what Rafa has done = handling players like objects instead of humans.

    Rafa would win Scudetto with Inter on Football manager or Fifa but in real life there are struggles. I'd even go as far to say if Inter have any succes it will wholeheartly be down to the players (just how Madrid won CL against JuBe) Such is the damage and confidence I had in this man gone. I've seen things I do not like.... And I'm not talking about results but much more then that.
    The sooner our players will forget about Jose the better. Just today I listen again to Milito weeping that Jose is gone. IT's like most of those players are still having a hangover.

    Jose is not called special one without a reason.
    Last edited by Luka; 27 Nov 10 at 19:55.
    Quote of the week:
    "Farewell - Let the Good Times Roll"
    --------------------------------------------------------
    F.C. INTERNAZIONALE, DEPECHE MODE, UNIA TARNOW - Nothing more...

  17. #17
    skeet's Avatar
    Join Date
    09 Sep 09
    Posts
    4,108
    Thanked
    1,219 times
    Fav. Player
    Javier Zanetti

    Kuwait

    37
    at the beginning of the season teams were expecting inter to play deep, so obviously some possession football was expected from them, teams DID park the bus against us before but definitely not all the time, but now it's much easier for them because all they have to do is park the bus and counter ALL THE TIME, i can think of many teams from last season that brought the game to us and caused us a lot of problems, but now ever since the roma game that has yet to happen in serie a

  18. #18
    Luka's Avatar
    Join Date
    23 Jul 06
    Posts
    15,830
    Thanked
    753 times
    Fav. Player
    Black & Blue

    Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by skeet View Post
    i can think of many teams from last season that brought the game to us and caused us a lot of problems
    You're absolutely right, but more teams caused us problems when they parked the bus, knowing that Inter is not a very creative team, and thrives rather under the "counter" situations under Jose. We all knew that we had a lot of problems, especialy during last reign of Jose in Serie A. We found it hard to beat the teams who were parking the bus.

    With Jose we were very often suffering a lot for the first goal against those teams. I don't believe everybody forgot that. Whenever we knew a team is coming to San Siro, we knew it will be hard (until the first goal).

    Rafa changed that, and IMO we did suprisingly well for some time (not that, there wasn't any other problems) despite all our other problems - Miltio,Sneijder, Maicon, Pandev out of form, some players lacking motivation etc. That time ended, when we got our midfield injured.
    Quote of the week:
    "Farewell - Let the Good Times Roll"
    --------------------------------------------------------
    F.C. INTERNAZIONALE, DEPECHE MODE, UNIA TARNOW - Nothing more...

  19. #19
    skeet's Avatar
    Join Date
    09 Sep 09
    Posts
    4,108
    Thanked
    1,219 times
    Fav. Player
    Javier Zanetti

    Kuwait

    37
    Quote Originally Posted by Luk View Post
    You're absolutely right, but more teams caused us problems when they parked the bus, knowing that Inter is not a very creative team, and thrives rather under the "counter" situations under Jose. We all knew that we had a lot of problems, especialy during last reign of Jose in Serie A. We found it hard to beat the teams who were parking the bus.

    With Jose we were very often suffering a lot for the first goal against those teams. I don't believe everybody forgot that. Whenever we knew a team is coming to San Siro, we knew it will be hard (until the first goal).

    Rafa changed that, and IMO we did suprisingly well for some time (not that, there wasn't any other problems) despite all our other problems - Miltio,Sneijder, Maicon, Pandev out of form, some players lacking motivation etc. That time ended, when we got our midfield injured.


    are you listening to yourself? you have been spouting half truths and calling them "facts" for days now, it's getting annoying

    do you know how many times inter scored first at san siro this season? twice. and one of those was against bari, which was also the last time inter won at home

    cagliari away, palermo home, juventus away, atalanta away, siena home, bari away, catania away, fiorentina away, and chievo home were all games from last season where we suffered one way or another because the opponent took the initiative and attacked our defense directly, and other than roma there were very little teams that have caused us problems by parking the bus

    this season the only team since september that didn't rely on counters was genoa, and we beat them, before that inter only looked good against bari and in CL, and injuries aren't an excuse, because they only bcame an issue earlier this month when 3-4 players were injured against tottenham and brescia

  20. #20
    Luka's Avatar
    Join Date
    23 Jul 06
    Posts
    15,830
    Thanked
    753 times
    Fav. Player
    Black & Blue

    Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by skeet View Post
    do you know how many times inter scored first at san siro this season? twice. and one of those was against bari, which was also the last time inter won at home
    You didn't understand me.

    cagliari away, palermo home [...] were all games from last season where we suffered one way or another because the opponent took the initiative and attacked our defense directly
    I could go to other games, but can you tell me, how you figured that out about those first 2 games ? I'm curious.

    ...

    I'm wondering, since you're pretty vocal lately skeet. Are you saying that according to you we were playing bad (except for few games), using bad tactics since day 1, and pretty much you weren't happy with Rafa for months now, is that what you're saying ?
    Quote of the week:
    "Farewell - Let the Good Times Roll"
    --------------------------------------------------------
    F.C. INTERNAZIONALE, DEPECHE MODE, UNIA TARNOW - Nothing more...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •