Ok, so we have 10 threads or something, in every one of them Rafa is being discussed. I don't want to write it down there, because I'm repeating myself to death now. Also, it's more about the issue of evaluating situation, rather than situation itself. Otherwise I could post it in Nyall thread. Furthemore I wanted to write it for some time now, and now I had some time to finaly sit down and write most of what I think.
Now lets see. What distinguishes an inteligent human being, from a moron ? I'll say, an inteligent human being tends to think more, than a moron. He thinks before he does something, and he puts a reasonable amount of time before he acts. He also is more resonable and thinks more about the circumstances, he doesn't just look at the surface. He tries to be fair.
Basicly he ain't blind, and he keeps his eyes open.
Lets see for example:
A kid on the street is crying. 2 parents walk towards him, and ask him what happened. He says other kid hit him. 1 parrent doesn't like to think much, he goes to the kid, starts to yell at him, and tells him to appologies and he is not interested in excuses.
What does the other parrent do however ? Ok, a kid shouldn't hit the other kid, that's always wrong, and he will get his punishment, but he ain't as hasty. He first tries to get more information, and be more objective, before making up his mind completely. So he walks to the other kid, and before saying he was wrong, he asks him why he did it. Now the other kid says, the other kid stole his toy, and didn't want to give it back, even though he asked him to.
Situation changed a lot, didn't it ? Now the parrent moron, just keeps repeating like a retard, that the kid needs to be punished, because he shouldn't hit the other kid. The other parrent AGREES, but ALSO tries to remind that the situation ain't that simple, and that the kid should be given some slag because he didn't do it without the cause. The first parrent though doesn't like to think about many variables at once, so he just keeps repeating "He hit him! he hit him !"
This is a basic concept I'm expieriencing lately (no offense). Some will agree upon learning, but then, couple days later, it's like it never happened, and we're to square one.
Now this is what differs smart, reasonable people, from unreasonable. A reasonable person won't be blind to the surrounding circumstances, unless he can't recognise them at first. But once he does, he will not forget those and he will include all in his view of the situation.
I have to say. If there is a meating, and say a future of company, or the future buisness plans are being discusses, and there is a list of important circumstances that count, and if somebody forgot about some circumstance when saying something, then there would be either silence, or the CEO would remind him of that circumstance. Either way he would look like an idiot.
Now to the key point. Anybody who brings up anything here, forgetting, or just ignoring a circumstance while discussing something is just looking (to say it lightly) silly. That's how it is, and I'm sorry for being honest. You can't say Ferguson is a terrible coach, if his first eleven is all injured at once, and then just repeat like a moron, that he had a string of 5 bad games, and forget about this "slight" detail.
It's even "better" if someone popps up, and says: "But last year he won against the same team 5-0, but now he can't do the same !".
Ok, so we covered the base of the issue. Now, lets go to the substance. We could fool ourselves, but it's obvious, that everywhere the anaolgy to the Jose era is seen, so lets stick with it.
a) The team was always in the crisis
Wrong. The team is NOT in crisis since the first week.
Nobody wondered why this is ? Why nobody screamed crisis before, or why nobody screamed we are dommed ? Why ? Because we weren't. We're in the crisis from my personal feeling since the game after second Tottenham game (that is beginning of november). I think most will agree. This is the time, after which Brescia and Lecce games occured, which I think were the ones.
Lets see, maybe we'll find some reason for it. Oh here it is... after Tottenham game, we got 0 of our 5 midfielders that would start, if only healthy. (I don't consider Javier midfielder).
We'll go back to this later.
b) The team plays bad, and can't play "like Rafa wants".
True but ONLY RECENTLY. This is pretty funny, considering that this talk FOR REAL started when... ? You got it. Since the second Tottenham game - > midfield completely destroyed afterwards.
Before that, we had some worse games, but overally I saw many people happy, and even praising Benitez for the way we played (Where are those people now) ?
So YES, we can't play like Benitez wants NOW, but we COULD when there were still Cambiasso, and Stankovic.
After Genoa game and second Tottenham game, we were still just points off Lazio, and at the first place in the CL group with Tottenham, DESPITE all other problems that we still had - meaning besides injuries, we still didn't have proper offensive options, some of our key players from last seasons were terribly out of form, so on, so on.
c) The team shoud lower the deffensive line, cause we're bad deffensively with it.
AGAIN, this is ONLY since the second Tottenham game. I could say first Tottenham game, if only our players didn't want to hit the showers directly after the 45 minutes. Bale basicly did the same thing 3 times. You can't be sane to say he scored that because he was THAT good, or because we were THAT BAD. He scored because players LET HIM.
I won't say either way, and it's true our team is not suited perfectly to play like that, but WE DID play like that and even though we had some problems here and there, our team was learning and it didn't look as bad as it is now.
Also, not many people remembers, that till Genoa game we had the best deffensive record IN THE LEAGUE. 4 goals conceded, and I've read article that said, that neighter Jose in BOTH seasons had better deffensive record at this stage of the season.
What happened AFTER Genoa game ? Oh right, Cambiasso got injured, and then Muntari (our last midfielder) the very next game.
d) Atletico and Roma games prove that we were bad before.
Wrong. The only thing those games prove, is that if players mentaly lost the game before they even entered onto the field, they won't win it on it.
Whether this is Rafa fault partially, or none, is not important. What's important is to recognise, that players were not up for those games, and should take some fault.
e) Jose wouldn't allow players to walk onto the field like that.
WRONG. Genoa home game from last season proves it. Jose couldn't do squat, either from first minute, or after the break. The game ended in 0-0, and it was one of the most boring games ever.
Jose is mastermind in this aspect, but he ain't God, and he had games like that too.
f) We should go to how Jose played - counter attacking mode.
Now this is one of the things I read that amazes me the most. First of all, we didn't play like that all the time. Hell, we didn't even play like that MOST of the time.
Does people think, that we won against teams like Bari, or Parma, or Bologna, by playing counter attacking game ? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Are people suffering from mass amnesia ? What did we say ? That in Serie A, teams (especialy coming to San Siro) are parking the bus. People think that we won some games of those, by parking the bus, playing low deffensive line, and countering OURSELVES ? OFCOURSE NOT. We had to win those games, while the other team didn't. So we HAD to play possession play football, cause we had NO OTHER CHOICE.
Jose did play deffensive game, but he did it MOSTLY in the CL last season. And why ? Because FOR THE FIRST TIME we had to face SO MANY good offensive teams, like Barcelona, Bayern, or Chelsea.
Also, didn't we attack Barcelona in our first game ? Didn't we attack Chelsea in our second game ? Did we park the bus ? No. But I didn't see people accusing Jose of doing that. Why ? CAUSE WE WON. The result determines what people said, not the way we played.
Granted, we tend to be "more offensive" with Rafa. It seems some players deffend less, sometimes more players are active in the offensive stage which allows teams to counter, and our deffensive line us more often pushed higher up. However this goes in relation with the injuries problems. Before our midfield problems we did play good, and it did work to some extend. I even see people saying, we tend to do better against those "bus parking teams" than we did with Jose.
Didn't we say at some point, that our team wins ball back very quickly, presses nice, and keeps possesion well ? Didn't we ?
So what happened ? Injuries happened, that's what. If we could play a lot better before "crisis" occured, then we can do it again, can't we ?
g) It's Benitez fault that so many players are out of form.
Apparently, some people say Benitez is at fault for Milito, Maicon, Sneijder, Pandev being out of form. But at the same time forget Quaresma/Mancini case of Jose, or last years Eto'o. What we do about that ?
Couldn't the "great Jose" do something about it ? Couldn't the "great Jose" help them to find the form by adjusting the team towards them ?
I've read that Rafa system doesn't help Sneijder, or Milito, or Maicon to get into form. Ok, but what about Jose and Quaresma ? Didn't we all say, that Jose asks Quaresma to do something he ain't good at (deffending) ? Seems that he would do better, if he mostly stay on the other side of the field (something Rafa does now), and not use so much of deffending.
So as we see, Jose didn't help Quaresma either by those standards.
So it's basicly like this:
- under Benitez: Players out of form, his fault
- under Jose: Players out of form, players fault
Now, am I the only one seeing something "funny" about that ?
I do agree, that the coach can "help" the player to find his form, but I disagree that it's coaches fault (or mostly his fault), and especialy I don't like double standards.
h) Benitez shouldn't use Pandev, it's obvious he should use...
Who? Some people just like to say, we shouldn't use player A. Ok. True that, but if there is no player playing better, that ain't much of a choice now is it ? And especialy, it's not coaches fault.
Benitez shouldn't use Pandev. But hold on. He shouldn't use Biabiany either, cause he ain't good enough + he's only good for counters. Rafa also shouldn't use Philippe, cause he is too young, and he also needs more kg on him, before he starts producing.
Rafa also should bench Milito cause he's terrible.
Oh, and don't forget. Sneijder is out of form. IT might be a good idea to bench him for one or 2 games.
. . . . . hold on a minute. Pandev out, Milito out, Biabiany out, Philppe out, Sneijder out, so who the hell is there for Rafa to choose from ?
Oh right, I forgot about our new cloning facilities. Eto'o number 2, 3 and 4 are almost ready. Probably Rafa is at fault, cause he didn't pick those guys.
i) Rafa is at fault with injuries
So so. Could be. But are we blind again ? Maybe the problem is that most of our guys played almost every game ? Didn't we all were at some point angry at Jose who used Zlatan every game ?
So I'm just thinking. Maybe, just MAYBE the players were simply overused, and now it's the result of that ? It's like overclocking the CPU. It goes on 120% for you, and it's all great. Then you sell it to some guy, and 2 weeks afterwards he finds it broken. Now who's fault is it. The guy who currently has it, or the guys who was using it at 120% before ?
The only way to find out is over time. If those problems will keep reapeting for the other part of fthe season, and especialy at the beginning of next season, then I will concure, it's Rafa's problem. But till then, it's not CLEAR. Not yet at least.
j) If Jose stayed, he would motivate the players like shit!
No team till now could win the CL two times in the row. What's the problem ? You got it. Motivation. No team the following season, looked as "hungry" as the year before. The same coaches, who "did the best work" the previous year, could't repeat it the fofllowing year. Pep tried to make "Gladiators" out of Barca, and even that couldn't work.
It is very naive to believe, Jose would get from those guys same deal like last year.
Also, lets not forget. We were in the "siege mentality" for the whole year. That takes toll also I assume. I think players can't be on the edge the whole time. Maybe if you make players play on 120%, the following year they can only play at 80%. But when you make them play on 140%, maybe the following year they are "burned" even more and can play only on 60% ?
Considering Jose is the best at this sort of thing, maybe the second case is in order ?
We can safely say, players would look better now, more motivated with Jose. But would it be close to the same as last season ? Very doubtfull.
k) When injuries happened, Rafa should "go back to Jose system".
What does it even mean ?
Like I've said, when you play Brescia at home, you don't play "Jose system", you play to score a goal, and that means possesion play. It doesn't matter if your coach is Benitez or Jose. Jose did the same - possesion play. Not because he liked it, but because other teams didn't give us any choice. If other team is parking the bus, and using 3 players in attack, and just uses counters, you don't play direct game, because it's useless. There is not space for that. What you do ? You play possesion play, just like Rafa does.
Unless people think, that beating a bus parking team means to do exactly the same on our end ?
Ok, so we established that we have to attack teams like Brescia or Lecce to win. Why? Because thei coach doesn't say "Let's attack and play possesion football against Inter, so that they can counter us". Their coaches say: "We play safe, and try to score a agoal if it's possible".
And since we're Inter, we can't sit at our ass and wait for 1 chance in a game to score, even if we have to play Obi and Zanetti in midfield.
So what we do ? We do what Jose would do. We ATTACK, try to risk more, and try to score a goal, even if it means that we're more likely to loose possesion, and find it harder to distribute a ball because we play Obi and Zanetti.
l) We are pathetic offensively. We should score more.
Should we ?
Well lets see. There is Milito, a scorer of 30 goals last year, who can't hit a goal recently, even if it had 30 meters wide. Then there is Pandev, who is falling more on the ground recently than he runs.
Then there is Philippe, who was signed as our future star, who now is whistled, because the fate of our team hangs on his shoulders, and he "HAS TO" perform.
And last, we have Biabiany, a guy who can run.
Who's left ? Eto'o. Oh right, the only guy who is ON FORM, and the guy that Rafa is not responsbile for (he is only responsible, when players are off form), the guy who saves our ass.
Have I missed anybody else ? Oh right, other players. Well lets see...
We have Maicon, a guy who has "Real Madrid, I beg you sign me" written on his forehead since the beginning of the season.
We have Dejan, who played well, and "suprisingly", when he got injured our team started to sack offensively.
Then we have Motta who is injured. Then we have Muntari, headless chicken, and couple of primavera guys Obiorah, and Obi.
Oh, and then there is Cuchu who also scores sometimes. Ooops, injured since the "crisis" era started.
So, who, who exactly should score those 3 goals every game ???
m) With Jose we would be ok.
Now this is my favourite. Some are so blind, so ignorant, that they can only see this:
Jose won trebble - everything this guy does, no matter what would be success
Rafa looses recently - excuses no matter, he is crap.
"With Jose we would be ok". Would we ? With so many players out of form, that even Jose couldn't fix (completely) ? With so many injuries ? With so many players who wouldn't be as motivated as last year ? With no proper offensive signings ?
I'm sorry to be honest, but I believe even Jose, and this is me LUK speaking, couldn't do MUCH better under the circumstances we're living now. It might get better, but I doubt we would get more than 3 points off the leader of Serie A.
n) Jose was never wrong, Jose never had bad games, Jose never made wrong subs, Jose never made tactics wrong, Jose would piss on Rafa, Jose would make Milito score 30 goals, Jose is s God, Jose...
JOSE JOSE JOSE JOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jose was at least second best coach in our history, and I will be the first one to say so. But that doesn't make Jose God, or clear any wrong things he did when he was Inter coach. He did few of those, true that, but it's not like some people ridiculously show him to be. This is stunning, that last year I was fighting against most people cause THEY DIDN'T GIVE HIM ENOUGH CREDIT, and now I fith AGAIN against most people cause they give him TOO MUCH CREDIT.
Pretty ironic. I wonder, why am not called Jose basher yet.
Jose had poor games, Jose made mistakes, Jose set up the team wrong. It all happened, although not often.
1) Injuries problems.
The problems we're facing now, Jose had never have. 1 injury in every formation, is not the same as having one formation completely out especialy if it's the most formation in every team - midfield.
2) The league last year was weaker than it is now, just like it was weaker before Jose arrived.
This is pretty clear. Basicly, if I've said (and rightfully so) when deffending Jose, that he has a more difficult job than Mancini had, then I also has the same reason now, to say that Rafa has more difficult job to what Jose had.
3) Jose got what he wanted, Rafa didn't.
Self explanatory. Some said, Sneijder was washout, Lucio was unwanted, Eto'o was unwanted.
Va bene. My question: What "washed out", "unwanted" has to do with the quality of fthe player ? IF Messi was unwanted by Barca tomorrow, does it mean, Mancini iss better than him ?
Lucio was unwanted because Van Gaal was a moron. Sneijder was unwanted, because the Perez was looking for scapegoats, and also Wes didn't fit their system best. Eto'o was unwanted by Barca, for reasons Pep only knows why.
But they ALL were very good players. If we got any players this year, who would have "similar problems" it would only benefit the team. The fact is, WE DIDN'T.
Everybody. Everbody knew we needed offensive reinforcments. I won't even bring up the fact we wanted a proper left back, and a midfielder who ain't injured for 2/3 of the season. But offensive reinforcments, especialy with Balotelli going was a MUST. Loosing Balotelli was correct. NOT GETTING anybody was a mistake.
4) Players seem LOT less motivated, and lacking a drive to win.
This is obvious. Some say it's Rafa's responsibility, and it is to some extend. But it's not only his fault, if players aren't motivated after winning the biggest success they had in their life. You can't fool the nature.
5) Key players for this team are out of form
We could play that well last year, because players performed. Some even more than that. What would happen to our trebble winning team, if we took out Milito from the final of CL ? Or Sneijder from Chelsea away game. Now you get the picture.
6) Last season, with ALL our strength, we barely won the scudetto.
Ok, someone might say, we played in CL till the end, and CI and it all had it's toll. Rightfully said. But that doesn't excuse the board from not noticing the signs, especialy since all our direct competitors got STRONGER (Roma, Juve, Milan).
7) You can't bring stats of draw-loss-draw-loss-win, without LOOKING closesely at those games.
If a team has 40 chances to score every game, but looses 5 games in the end, due to mistakes of deffenderes, and blunders of strikers, is it without any importance ? Sampdoria draw shouldn't be a draw. We were good enough to win this game, but didn't.
What's the difference, between say our Samp game, and 2 years ago Chievo game (the one Maicon scored from offside) ?
LUCK. Jose had this luck, especialy last season. What game this year, we can file under this cathegory. Easily:
Genoa. Palermo (to some degree) and Cagliari (to some degree). What games did we had recently (in our crises) that we had some luck on our side ? NONE.
Samp, Lecce, Brescia, those were all games we could have won, because in all those games we were better, and in some we should have won, if only world was fair.
8) Jose also TOOK TIME before he got the most out of the team.
Now some will say, ok Jose experimented in hiss first season with 4-3-3, and all, but he didn't have as bad situation as Rafa has now.
True. But he didn't have all those circumstances either, now had he
9) Jose Mourinho did last year something, that could not be done by any other Serie A team in the history - meaning: it was something EXTRAORDINARY
Lets look what had to happen before we could even think of winning the trebble:
- Jose had to get players to fit his system
- The injuries couldn't occure, especialy during second part of the season, and especialy to offensive players
- Many of the players had to have the form of their life like Milito, Maicon, Sneijder, so on...
- We had to have some luck
Lets see what we have now during this "crisis". Oh right, neigher of those.
Does anybody believe that had any of those circumstances didn't occure with Jose during second part of the season, we would still win the trebble ? Like if Milito and Sneijder were gone/out of form.
10) We didn't have yet games that would ABSOLUTELY require to play similary to Jose in CL last year.
That means playing against teams like Barca, Real, Man Utd, Bayern etc. Unless someone calls Atletico that, or Tottenham (except second game, but this was also some blame in Rafa that I already covered in his thread) ? Currently we didn't have a game that it would be suicide to play differently to how Jose played with our team. I mean, ofcourse it would be wise, to do it recently, but I guess nobody of us would like us to see deffend, against LEcce, or Brescia now would it ?
11) Rafa is NOT WITHOUT A BLAME.
Yes, I believe, that if we had different coach, who wouldn't do mistakes on his part alone, we would do better, even with all those circumstances. I believe Rafa did some blunders, like playing the way he did versus Tottenham the second game. I also believe we should do better (look better) against teams like Lecce and Brescia.
But at the same time, I don't believe in magic workers. People thinking that a new coach will somehow make all those circumstances disapear, and it's not the case, unless they think Rafa is responsible for all those circumstances, which to me is very, very naive.
Now what' the trick ? The trick now, is not to pick 1, 4,a b and c and forget the rest. The trick is remember it ALL when discussing about those issues, and especialy when discussing Rafa in relevance to last seasons.
Why I don't want Rafa sacked ? I don't want him sacked, because I keep track of this list ^^^. It's because I know, that if this list was much shorter, it could have been much different.
It doesn't mean, Rafa can now go and loose every game till the end of the season. Obviously he has to start to win again, and at least make the ratio better, especialy against worse teams. But at the same time I will remember all those circumstances, and I will not expect Rafa to win almost every game, like he would have to had we have proper reinforcments and no major injuries and other problems that we have now.
People like to say about how Rafa "destroyed this team", as if we had 1, 2 injuries, as if Massimo did what Rafa wanted and got him 2, 3 new players, as if Milito, Maicon, Sneijder looked decent. The fact is, it's not the case.
IF, Rafa saves the situation to some extend (we have to get closer to Milan, to say 3 points, or AT LEAST not make the gap bigger), what we have to do is this:
- wait until injuries will stop screwing us, especialy the return of Cambiasso, Stankovic and MOTTA !!!
- wait until Milito, Maicon and Sneijder will wake up
- BUY REINFORCMENTS that we needed already in summer
- get some luck, or at least, loose the "un-luck"
- be patient
I still believe Rafa is very good coach, who would do a lot better if he wasn't as unlucky now (alongside us). I believe that IF we stick with him, and if Moratti will do what he should do before, I believe it will be better. Much better.
I hope what Massimo said is genuine. I hope he realises (unlike many others, unfortunetly) that Benitez is not the major reason why we are in a situation we're now. I hope he stays, I hope Massimo will finaly loose his blindfold, and spend some money. I hope Rafa gets what he should have already got in the summer, and then show what he can do.
And this I wish for myself, and for all you, for all interisti brethren.
ps. If somebody wants to make a reply with dozen of quotes with parts of my post, please don't. This is not a post to start discussing every other paragraph, I don't want to enter in discussion like this. IF somebody has objections, it's better if he picks 1, 2 biggest issues for him at a time that he has objections to and present it.