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Thread: Mancini's Midfield Dilemma

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    Mancini's Midfield Dilemma

    Over the course of this current season, inter have changed its shape in midfield more then any team out there. This is understandable when a new coach has to play around abit before finding the right formula.

    At the start of the season mancini wanted the last piece to his jigsaw puzzle, that was Cesar. After failing in gaining the services of the Brazilian, Mancini then set out on finding the best midfield with the current players he had and one that had the right balance. However this would prove harder than initially thought...

    He begun with the flat 4 in midfield, with the pair of Veron and Davids in the middle, sadly this didnít work. Once the season got to the 3rd round, mancini ditched the idea of the pair in the middle, in came Cambiasso and Ze maria was then forced out of the team to make way for VDM.

    Cambiasso only had once chance and that was away to Atalanta where he did quite well, but once again (at home to Parma) Mancini went back to the pair of Veron and Davids. The game resulted in another draw and Mancini went back to the drawing board.

    After the problems in the midfield Mancini decided to stick with the diamond type midfield with Cambiasso playing the holding role in front of the defensive 4. This continued for most of the games until against Udinese and Fiorentina C.Zanetti came in and played alongside Cambiasso to give stability in midfield, as Inter were giving up so many goals that they had led the league in Goals Allowed.

    Since then there has been changes but lately Mancini believes the defensive midfielders have given the right balance for the team. But many argue (including Doctor Moratti himself) that against the smaller teams we need to impose our game more and use the ability of our players as an advantage.

    The problem Mancini faces is which midfield to play and when to play itÖ Too much change and it will unsettle the team.

    Many other teams can switch between the shape and position of their midfield but in the end they end up using mostly the same players,
    at Inter itís a different case as when we change the shape of our midfield, so do most the players who get picked.

    Mancini must choose now which midfield he wants. He has these choices

    Flat midfield (2 DMs, with wingers)
    ========C.Zanetti===Cambiasso======
    VDM========================Deki

    Split midfield (2DM's, 2 AM's) no wingers
    =======C.Zanetti===Cambiasso======
    =====Veron===========Stankovic===


    Daimond midfield (DM and AM, with wingers)
    ===========Camibasso===========
    VDM=========Veron=========Stanky


    Diamond midfield (1 DM, 3 CM) no wingers
    ==========Camibasso=========
    ====Veron====Emre====Stankovic


    Certainly a change in formation will result in a player losing his place in the starting 11. If theres no wingers there will be no room for VDM or Kily and with the inclusion of wingers there will be less room for the likes of Emre and Davids.

    I personally think, that Mancio must make his decion soon, so that next year the players that donít fit in his formation should be allowed to leave.
    Because with the knowledge of knowing what the coach wants, he keeps the players he needs so he can stick to one set of players to keep people happy, and at the same time, cutting down the size of the squad.

    Lately we have been succesful using the 2DM's of Hammer and Chu-Chu and then using the attacking midfielders in Stankovic and Veron. The coach and players have agreed that when a substitution is made during a match that changes the shape of the midfield, they lose their edge for the 'adaption' time.

    Another problem that faces Mancio is, his likingness to playing with Wingers. It hasnt been all to succesful with us, but its almsot certain in the off season we will be purchasing a winger. Wether its Cesar, Jankulovski or Taddei. The latter has been confirmed with the management not denying there quest to sign the player.

    It seems were starting to find consistency and thats hard to come by at Inter. This seems to have come when we have excluded VDM and wingers from our setup. Most noticable is how our defensce seems more secure without them.

    I forsee us having a succesful season with the midfield we have adapted in the last few games. What scares me is, if we leave it like that for the season and it works well, but come transfer market time Mancini buys new wingers and were back to square one, which is...

    - New players.
    - New midfield.
    - Trying all the different combinations of midfield. Which means taking that extra bit of time to find out perfect formula.

    Is that where we have been behind Milan and Juve? Have our coaches had to much change which takes to much time to finally find the right balance? Lets hope this year Mancini finds the right balance and then in the market he wont change that.

    So come Serie A 05/06 were battling for the scudetto from game one and not at the half way point.


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    Good one Helal.

    I think that this would be good for us:

    ---Stankovic -------------- Veron--------
    ----------- Emre ------- Cambi ----------
    ......................defence..................... .

    (the one which was applied against Atalanta, yesterday)
    It's not a diamond, but did well in attack and defence. Cambiasso alone won't be doing the defending job, all the other midfielders will be helping him.

    OR


    Kily Gonzalez --------------- Stanko------
    ----------- Cambi ------- Veron -----------
    ........................defence................... ...

    If Mancini doesn't continue with that one, then I want us to play with this one, if Mancini intends to start with Kily. And hopefully Emre will get his chance as well.

    You are right that we should really work out well on what kinda players we should have for next season. Players like V.Meyde won't shut his mouth if he doesn't get to play, even though I think that Mancini prefers him. Lets see.... And who knows, players could also help themselves by doing well in the system the coach wants to work out with. Just like Pirlo doing well as a deep midfielder. Who knows, it might be possible in Inter as well.



    By the way, the line up I have given there is for this season only. I got no clue on how we are gonne be for next season.
    I just know that we will have a new left back (if Coco fails, if given chance) and a central defender.


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    Let me give my take on this. I'll analyze all the choices you have.

    1) Flat midfield. No! Absolutely not! NEVER!!!! That tactics is obsolete and predictable, easily defended against if the opposition protects well the wings. No team in Europe that fights for honours uses those tactics. Once the wingers get cancelled out or run out of steam, the only plan B in this case are the hoofs towards the center-forward(s). Lazio employed those tactics in 1998/1999 and it ultimately cost us Lo Scudetto in spite of having the winger pair of Conceisao-Nedved, along with Beckham-Giggs the best in the world then. Such formattion only works if the team has a genious as a "seconda punta". The only one at Inter fitting the description is Recoba.

    2) Split midfield. Well, it seems to be working quite well at the moment. The trouble is, what without Veron?

    3) Daimond midfield (DM and AM, with wingers). That is Mancini's favourite formation and he used it at Lazio. However, for that he needs a champion in the defence and this roster sadly lacks one. Get Chivu or Lucio in the summer. For now, this one is too risky.

    4) Diamond midfield (1 DM, 3 CM) no wingers. In this case the fullbacks need to do the job on the flanks when it comes to offensive and Favalli looks rather suspect.

    Conclusion: Use 2) with 4) as a prime alternative. Use 3) only if a win is badly needed and 1) is simply not an option.

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    pravesh, in your first formation we didnt use wingers. and in the second u included kily. there alot different.

    Milos, Veron can play in the 2-2 midfield. he plays attacking mid on the right.

    By the way, the line up I have given there is for this season only. I got no clue on how we are gonne be for next season.
    this is the problem, i dont want new players to make a new midfield, we dont have that time. we've done it every year, it doesnt work. i think we should stick to what we work out is the best this season. maybe a replacement for Veron...emre?


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    Quote Originally Posted by helal25
    Milos, Veron can play in the 2-2 midfield. he plays attacking mid on the right.
    You are missing the point. I was asking who will play if Veron is out in such formation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by helal25
    pravesh, in your first formation we didnt use wingers. and in the second u included kily. there alot different.
    Well, it all depends on how we would play, incase Mancini prefers to play with Kily in the left wing. As I showed in my second line up. Kily in the extreme left as a pure winger.

    Kily ------ Cambiasso ----- Veron ----- Stankovic --

    .................-----..........---------........----------- J.Zanetti

    Something like that. J.Zanetti will have to play a role there.


    By the way, the line up I have given there is for this season only. I got no clue on how we are gonne be for next season.
    this is the problem, i dont want new players to make a new midfield, we dont have that time. we've done it every year, it doesnt work. i think we should stick to what we work out is the best this season. maybe a replacement for Veron...emre?
    Neither do I.
    So, might be the case with Mancini as well, hopefully and most importantly the management. Lets hope so.

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    and milos, u say who will replace veron in the formation. Why cant Emre or Davids?


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    Quote Originally Posted by helal25
    and milos, u say who will replace veron in the formation. Why cant Emre or Davids?
    I am not sure about Emre, even though Veron and Emre's style of playing is different as we all know. But Davids ?? Davids can replace him, not at all. Players like Stankovic could do it, in my opinion, if we are not to make any new purchase. Anyway, I do think that we will keep Veron for next season as well.

    Lets see, how Veron performs ?

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    alright were getting back to the point where we are being linked with more wingers!

    im so confused. look at milan, juve, barca. WHY CANT WE LEARN!

    all those 3 teams have the same players and same formation over and over.

    but US! one week we have no wingers formation with chuchu, Hammer, Veron and Deki. Then next week we have wingers and were playing with different players

    its a bloody joke.

    Why cant we just not buy any midfielders next season and why cant we stick with the same formation i hate this change, if we can take a lesson from chelsea, barca, and especially milan. Choose one and stick with it!


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    First of all, nice job Helal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milos75
    2) Split midfield. Well, it seems to be working quite well at the moment. The trouble is, what without Veron?

    3) Daimond midfield (DM and AM, with wingers). That is Mancini's favourite formation and he used it at Lazio. However, for that he needs a champion in the defence and this roster sadly lacks one. Get Chivu or Lucio in the summer. For now, this one is too risky.

    Conclusion: Use 2) with 4) as a prime alternative. Use 3) only if a win is badly needed and 1) is simply not an option.
    Not much time. Shortly. I'm pretty much with you. Also in Split midfield our flank play is pretty much up to our fullbacks.

    It's up to Mancio. When he buys new centraldefender, is he going to continue with split midfield or change to diamond? If he is going to continue with split midfield, which big problem is flankplay, he needs superb leftback who will take part to attacks. he needs Il capitano's left side-version, which wud mean Dede or Janku. If he changes to diamond midfield, which is mine preferred option, we could continue with Favalli.

    Adriano - Oba
    Stanky - Veron - Andy
    Cambi
    Favalli - Luisao - Cordoba - J Zanetti


    Milos can tell us about mancio's 4-3-3 in Lazio, which is very interesting formation for me. Chino in his best would be vital player, cause that three man upfront would need one talentplayer with strikers. We'd have width in upfront and fullbacks wud come from behind. Veron and Stanky wouldn't play outofposition.

    Recoba - Adriano - Martins
    Stankovic - Cambiasso - Veron
    Favalli - Luisao - Cordoba - J Zanetti

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    this is inter coaches problems.

    to many options!


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    You're right. But it's good you made the topic. This is vital issue and it must be discussed.

    But I believe Mancio wants diamond with wingers and he'll build the team for it in the summer. Mainly with world class defender and maybe also with winger.

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    exactly Ari, u made good points.

    but what my problem is, this season he didnt really go with wingers, it was the split formation of.

    4-2-2-2

    if next season we buy new players and then make a new formation its just the same old inter starting over and over. lol


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    Quote Originally Posted by helal25
    exactly Ari, u made good points.

    but what my problem is, this season he didnt really go with wingers, it was the split formation of.

    4-2-2-2

    if next season we buy new players and then make a new formation its just the same old inter starting over and over. lol
    If we buy new defender to save our asses and move Veron to middle it won't start over again. If we're lucky that's all we're going to buy to starting line-up. IMO that's all we're missing. But it's Inter, you can't be sure.

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    i think that next season i midfield should look somthing along the lines of this!

    =STANK=====ESSEIN=====VERON=
    ======= =======
    ===========CAMBI==========

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    Ok most people will tell you leaving out the 2 dm's is bad.

    But we need to play a style where both Veron and Stankovic can play aswell. Its very very obvious mancini wants to play Veron in the middle. But we dont want to lose these players.

    After taking many factors into consideration, such as Veron in the middle, Stan's drop in form, Cambiasso said he prefers to be a playmaker etc...

    ive come up with a midfield that will benefit everyone and keep the players on the field.

    Note: There are no wingers in this midfield however, they are playing left-center midfield. so basically almost where he normally plays. so i dont want u to get mixed up with Cambiasso playing as a left wing like kily cause its not like that.

    =========C.Zanetti==========
    Stankovic====Veron====Cambiasso


    As u can see thin this formation, it keeps our fantasic pair of DM's in. Also it does many other great things.

    1) it keeps Stankovic on the right, he gets more in the game
    2) Veron finally goes to the middle, where we need him
    3) Cambiasso basically will occupy the left area of midfield.


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    Telling frankly, I don't want to see that line-up (above) next season. Sometimes - is a different case, but not often. Just 1DM is more than enough in my opinion. It could be a diamond midfield or a flat midfield, but 1DM is more than enough.

    It seems it could be stg like this:

    (LM)Taddei/V.Mey ---- Veron/Stan/? ----- Cambi ----- Stan/V.Mey(RM)

    That's for a flat midfield.


    ---- Stan/? -- Veron/Stan -- Veron/? ---
    --------------- Cambiasso ----------------

    OR

    As Mancini has said so many times that he wants to play with the trio upfront:

    ------ Recoba/V.Meyde ------ Adriano ------ Martins/V.Mey --------

    OR

    ------------ Adriano --------- Martins --------------
    --------------- Ronaldinho/F.Totti ------------------



    Any kinda good line ups, but I have had enough with 2DMs', coz I do think that we won't need 2DMs. Instead, Cambiasso and C.Zanetti can be rotated well.

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    Did you see Cambiasso today as a DM? Putting this guy with a DM is like taking away a player from the team and having two LW's or something.

    He can do the job, having two DM's should be used minorily in games where we are leading and have a player sent off, or in games where we don't want to concede. That's it, don't have two DM's in all games!

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    i dont know im caught in 2 minds.

    having the hammer with chucu is exellent. They control the game and can cancel any pair in the world (i.e. Pirlo and Kaka)

    but does that mean we keep Veron on the right? idunno.


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    This is the wrong mentality, cancel other midfields. It should be the other midfields trying to cancel you, not the other way around. This mentality is pure italiana, safety first, it doesn't work anymore, we got rid of it with Cuper.

    We have to initiate everything, we should focus on winning, not dominating midfield. It can work if you have two offensively gifted DM's, like Costinha -- Maniche or Baraja -- Albelda and maybe Gerrard -- Xabi.

    However, we all know about CZ. God bless him, he is improving, but asking him to start offensive movements is like asking a penguin to fly. He might have the tools, but it just doesn't work.

    We can use the two DM's in some cases like I mentioned. But to base our midfield that way is wrong. Also, you are trying to build our midfield to accomodate players. That is wrong, you have a plan, then look for players to fit in it. Unless of course you have exceptional players, then you could build the midfield around them.

    With all due respect to Stan and Veron, they aren't players you build your team around.

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