Julio Cesar

we were comparing to Julio Cesar 2010.. you are 3 years late.. Even before today we knew JC has declined in his performances..

But tbh, JC vision was blocked by Luiz although he should have at least made an attempt.

Who's talking skills? We are purely talking heart and determination. It doesn't matter the age.


Some times goalies just don't dive if they know they can't get it, simple as that.

age does matter though (except for zanetti)
plus jc has never played for a long time in the club level, thx to harry

thatdude said:

Who's talking skills? We are purely talking heart and determination. It doesn't matter the age.


Some times goalies just don't dive if they know they can't get it, simple as that.

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speak for yourself. If age doesn't matter, we would have won 3 treble in a row with the same team. fact is we didn't. fact is jc skills have dropped. fact is jc has now seldom made appearances. reflexes and determination is part of skills. pulling a difficult attempt to block a shot is more a skill than a heart and determination.

We are talking about diving, not ability to get to the ball. I can dive, you can dive, Julio and Handa can dive. The act of diving is not a skill within itself. Those who talk in Handa's thread are purely talking about his will or lack there of to dive.

Easily one of the best goalkeepers in the world in 2010 now he doesn't get a game for QPR in the Championship

Hope to see him move to a decent club in January, so long as it's not Milan..

ScottishInter97 said:

Easily the best goalkeeper in the world in 2010 now he doesn't get a game for QPR in the Championship

Hope to see him move to a decent club in January, so long as it's not Milan..

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Fixed

thatdude said:

We are talking about diving, not ability to get to the ball. I can dive, you can dive, Julio and Handa can dive. The act of diving is not a skill within itself. Those who talk in Handa's thread are purely talking about his will or lack there of to dive.

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Actually, diving itself is a unique skill though
Personally speaking diving rarely happened just as the result of reflexes
A gk need to concentrate and prepare for it
Do it wrong and a gk will not even able to reach an easy ball or worse, a gk will get injured

Moreover, If u see how goalkeeper do it you realize every goalkeeper has his own style and preference
Fontana for example, like to put his other hand on the ground for low dive while other simply let his body drag on the ground

thatdude said:

We are talking about diving, not ability to get to the ball. I can dive, you can dive, Julio and Handa can dive. The act of diving is not a skill within itself. Those who talk in Handa's thread are purely talking about his will or lack there of to dive.

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it's not about his will or lack to dive but his attempts to save balls. that's 2 very different context. I know that for sure because I was the first made that critic.

Diving, as you call it, is a skill by itself. It requires a high technique to actually be a good diver and a good goalkeeper. you won't know this unless you've ever trained as a goalkeeper. But, tbh, if you ever follow inter goalie training then you know that diving to save balls is part of their technical training.

yeah, better he tried to dive like amelia or doni, at least they try.. to look silly

which is better? look silly or look stupid?

Stupid

this Doni on Figo goal descibing well how he act silly and stupid,,
stupid because he made a mistake when guessing where figo put the ball
and silly because he know he cant reach that ball,, but still try

[youtube]CTsps56hGZE[/youtube]


good goalkeeper know his height,,
and when he didnt move not because his lazy, but he knows he already failed to guessing where the balls go,,
let me ask the question, when he faced Penalty kick, what the good goalkeeper should do?

a. guessing where the penalty taker will put the ball
b. waiting until ball get shoot before move

hint : this happen with handanovic

chipschups said:

this Doni on Figo goal descibing well how he act silly and stupid,,
stupid because he made a mistake when guessing where figo put the ball
and silly because he know he cant reach that ball,, but still try

[youtube]CTsps56hGZE[/youtube]


good goalkeeper know his height,,
and when he didnt move not because his lazy, but he knows he already failed to guessing where the balls go,,
let me ask the question, when he faced Penalty kick, what the good goalkeeper should do?

a. guessing where the penalty taker will put the ball
b. waiting until ball get shoot before move

hint : this happen with handanovic

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Not really no, making saves is not only depend on height
If only depend on height, the best goalkeeper is the giant over 2m
A shorther goalkeepr can compensate by train its lower body to do a strong jump
Many of professional gk are not tall and yet they are really good gk : casillas, barthez, Coupet, villar


There are many ways for goalkeeper to cover the goal such as positioning or speed
The goalkeeper training can be set to focus on that
the triangle drill to improve positioning or footwork to improve speed (goalkeeper move sideways if u notice)

I'm sorry but guessing is not the way to make saves, i never saw and trained to guess
And the same for penalty, none of your methods are good
the best is to read the penalty taker's body movement before kicking
But it is very hard to do, even for professional

Ed. said:

Diving, as you call it, is a skill by itself. It requires a high technique to actually be a good diver and a good goalkeeper. you won't know this unless you've ever trained as a goalkeeper. But, tbh, if you ever follow inter goalie training then you know that diving to save balls is part of their technical training.

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Agree
People think diving is easy, the reality is not
Diving is not just jumping around and look good when u make saves
Gk need to do it right from the start until the end

I'm not literally said height..
should I said, "good goalkeeper know his limit/capability"

francesco said:

I'm sorry but guessing is not the way to make saves, i never saw and trained to guess
And the same for penalty, none of your methods are good

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sadly, on 1 on 1 or some occasion..
gk really depend on his insting and guessing where he should put his body
or how he should do, catch that ball or just punching it
thats why some inexperience gk always made mistakes..
and they will learn from that kind of mistakes..

francesco said:

the best is to read the penalty taker's body movement before kicking
But it is very hard to do, even for professional

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this again,, you didnt get my point
and whats the difference with this "a. guessing where the penalty taker will put the ball"
thats part of point A, after read a body movement and everything
the gk still to guessing wheres he put his body.. left right..
because even a experience gk would never know 100% where's the penalty taker will put the ball..
so their should take a risk, to jump before the ball get shoot..

and thats the gk should do, because if you move after the ball get shoot, you 100% late..
because there's already experiment about that calculating a distance between penalty spot with goal, with average shoot speed it will be too late for gk if they moving after the ball get shoot..
thats happen with handa who always to move before the ball get shoot..
and its always sink or swim situation, sometimes you get right sometimes you get wrong..
so far he only block 1 penalty at Inter after known as penalty beater at Udinese
thats why people who bashing him says,, "Meh,, he just standing there, who said his penalty beater,, he should get that or even carrizo better than him"
and Im just laughed of it


okay I've stop here before I become pencilpal

I still don't think people are getting it. The act of diving= Man standing on two feet >>> man laying on his side. Full stop.

Who can't do that unless your paraplegic? The argument I was having was that people said Handa should at least try and make a save. And I responded by saying sometimes the goalie knows he can't reach it, and used Julio Cesar as evidence of this since people tend to think Julio would have tried to make a save (Gareth bale disagrees).

I am not talking about diving technique, yes that is a skill. I am talking purely about effort.

chipschups said:

I'm not literally said height..
should I said, "good goalkeeper know his limit/capability"

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yes, a gk should know and so other player position
and the limitation can be compensated or improved by training as I said before, so what's your point?

chipschups said:

sadly, on 1 on 1 or some occasion..
gk really depend on his insting and guessing where he should put his body
or how he should do, catch that ball or just punching it
thats why some inexperience gk always made mistakes..
and they will learn from that kind of mistakes..

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no
inexperience gk makes mistake siply because he is inexperience
he does not know yet about positioning
he does not know yet about the right timing to act
he does not make decision quick enough
etc

gk are trained for one on one including the right gesture, positioning, timing and also the basic knowledge such as enemy's angle of attack
again, they are not trained to guess, if they are then they don't need to have a training session, just let them bring coin to flip

and about catching vs punching
goalkeeper are trained to catch whenever possible because that way they can secure the ball
punching posses the risk of ball getting into enemy's feet
a gk can reduce this risk by punching the ball to the width area as far as possible
and don't forget tipping, when a gk cannot reach the ball but a little touch is enough to send the ball high or wide
as you can see, catching is always the preferable while tipping and punching are more situational

chipschups said:

this again,, you didnt get my point
and whats the difference with this "a. guessing where the penalty taker will put the ball"
thats part of point A, after read a body movement and everything
the gk still to guessing wheres he put his body.. left right..
because even a experience gk would never know 100% where's the penalty taker will put the ball..
so their should take a risk, to jump before the ball get shoot..

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it is totally different
guessing indicate you don't know totally, just based on luck or coincidence while reading means you put some effort to have some information to start with
it is true that body reading is not 100% efficient but it is much much much more accurate than guessing

and guess what?
the good penalty taker also read goalkeeper body movement
so it works both ways

chipschups said:

if you move after the ball get shoot, you 100% late..
because there's already experiment about that calculating a distance between penalty spot with goal, with average shoot speed it will be too late for gk if they moving after the ball get shoot..

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this part you are correct

thatdude said:

I still don't think people are getting it. The act of diving= Man standing on two feet >>> man laying on his side. Full stop.

Who can't do that unless your paraplegic? The argument I was having was that people said Handa should at least try and make a save. And I responded by saying sometimes the goalie knows he can't reach it, and used Julio Cesar as evidence of this since people tend to think Julio would have tried to make a save (Gareth bale disagrees).

I am not talking about diving technique, yes that is a skill. I am talking purely about effort.

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if you think it is easy why don't u try it
I would not be surprise if u ended up with dislocated shoulder, broken arm, bruised stomach or even hurting your back

francesco said:

yes, a gk should know and so other player position
and the limitation can be compensated or improved by training as I said before, so what's your point?

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this thatdude get the point..
no more no less..

v
v

thatdude said:

I still don't think people are getting it. The act of diving= Man standing on two feet >>> man laying on his side. Full stop.

Who can't do that unless your paraplegic? The argument I was having was that people said Handa should at least try and make a save. And I responded by saying sometimes the goalie knows he can't reach it, and used Julio Cesar as evidence of this since people tend to think Julio would have tried to make a save (Gareth bale disagrees).

I am not talking about diving technique, yes that is a skill. I am talking purely about effort.

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LOL

"All Handanovic needs to do is save the penalty", "He should just go a random direction"

The art of saving penalties is all about reading body language well;

Effective penalty takers (ala Signori, Balotelli) have such impeccable records on the spot, because they avoid giving away any hints to where they will shoot

Balotelli slows down A LOT when he approaches the ball, to shoot it directly, rather than at an angle; if you look at his body movement, you would think the ball would go in a different direction


Signori didn't even run up to the ball to increase its momentum; hence why the GK stood no reasonable chance against him, because he didn't give anything away before shooting


It's all about quick thinking and anticipation tbh

Based on pure reflexes and anticipation, Carrizo is great, but his overall game is quite poor; his concentration and positioning is particularly appalling

chipschups said:

this thatdude get the point..
no more no less..

v
v

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that is resigned mentality
the mindset is: oh it's seems too far, no need to reach it
you really want to have player with that kind of mentality and mindset?