European Super League Discussion

YoramG · Jul 30, 2021

I’ve done a complete turn around on this. I still hate the “invite” structure of the thing, but seeing Arsenal spend 50m on some nobody while in the Europa league while we have to sell Hakimi to even run the club is disgusting.

The EPL is already the super league. I want in. Forza Perez.

Candreva Crosses · Jul 30, 2021

How did you wake up Yoram? Tell us the story so the rest of forum can join in.

brehme1989 · Jul 30, 2021

YoramG said:
The EPL is already the super league. I want in. Forza Perez.

Remove dirty money from PL and it looks like their 3rd tier league.

Ethor · Jul 30, 2021

Spanish judge says for UEFA to quit messing with the Super Duper League signers. Now that's a shocker!

William · Jul 30, 2021

So does this mean no more fines?

Ethor · Jul 30, 2021

William said:
So does this mean no more fines?

Not a lawyer so I don't know, but it's definitely in UEFA's court.

CafeCordoba · Jul 30, 2021

YoramG said:
I’ve done a complete turn around on this. I still hate the “invite” structure of the thing, but seeing Arsenal spend 50m on some nobody while in the Europa league while we have to sell Hakimi to even run the club is disgusting.

The EPL is already the super league. I want in. Forza Perez.

If you checked closer how the payout structure was in the Super League, you would find out Inter and Milan would have been the fucking bottom tier clubs there, getting the least amount of money. There were 3 (actually 4) different tiers there how the money would be given. Inter, Milan and Dortmund I believe was the lowest. Real and Barca were at the first tier with some extra bonus money (at least for the first year I think), then two tiers after them before the bottom one.

Completely ridiculous conditions and Steven fucking Zhang decided to go for it. Disgraceful shit.

edit. I gotta add, salary cap would have been there, but based on the revenues of the club, not some fixed cap for everyone like in American sports. It would have been just cementing the status quo for the biggest ones. Real, Barca, Juve have been slowly left out (spending-wise) as they try to compete against the EPL and/or the oil money so they had to come up with something. So they came up with the Super League, with their own rules.

Kramerica Industries · Jul 31, 2021

CafeCordoba said:
If you checked closer how the payout structure was in the Super League, you would find out Inter and Milan would have been the fucking bottom tier clubs there, getting the least amount of money. There were 3 (actually 4) different tiers there how the money would be given. Inter, Milan and Dortmund I believe was the lowest. Real and Barca were at the first tier with some extra bonus money (at least for the first year I think), then two tiers after them before the bottom one.

Completely ridiculous conditions and Steven fucking Zhang decided to go for it. Disgraceful shit.

This. I don't want this to be forgotten in the course of time. We were going to be fucking doormats in the Super League, and that was something Suning was completely ok with allowing this club to become. There's nothing redeemable about that. There's nothing forgivable about that. Fucking Tottenham were more prestigious than we were going to be.

.h. · Jul 31, 2021

Better to be included than not.

William · Jul 31, 2021

Ever since I saw the payment structure leaked it was fucking outrageous that our management agreed to it. It just showed that they were just out to make money and they would have sold the club not long after when the fans realised we were the ducking bottom feeders in that league. Fuck we were getting less of a share than Tottenham!!!!

.h. · Jul 31, 2021

Would you rather they didnt enter it and we were in shit tier without any money, with CL rights values collapsing?

No.

I fundamentally and completely disagree with the ESL, but from the management perspective, its EXTREMELY important for us to even be at the party. If we're at the party, we're (a) unrelegatable and (b) able to work our way up.

They did the absolutely right thing.

William · Jul 31, 2021

.h. said:
Would you rather they didnt enter it and we were in shit tier without any money, with CL rights values collapsing?

No.

I fundamentally and completely disagree with the ESL, but from the management perspective, its EXTREMELY important for us to even be at the party. If we're at the party, we're (a) unrelegatable and (b) able to work our way up.

They did the absolutely right thing.

I’d disagree. If we didn’t enter it life would go on without those clubs and plenty of clubs in serie a and the CL to continue making money. If we did enter it I’d be entering it asking for nothing less than an equal share of the pie…we are fucking INTER!!!

more CLs than some of the clubs getting bigger shares and at the time we were looking good financially.

.h. · Jul 31, 2021

Nah. You're having a laugh. There's only so much money that wants to go onto broadcast football, as rights elapsed (or indeed broadcasters sued the leagues and UEFA), it would MASSIVELY go into the ESL. In Serie A they were estimating without Juve, Inter, Milan, the rights were worth maybe 40%. You'd see the same sort of number in the Premiership and La Liga. Where do you think all that ESL revenue was coming from? It's sponsorship + broadcast, and there's not suddenly money being poured into football - the money's already in football, it would have been repurposed from existing broadcast and sponsorship. CL prize money would fucking plummet, same as broadcast.

CL would basically devolve to EL + a little bit (Since Bayern and PSG would still be competing), but that'd be about it.

Don't be so naive. We're a long way from equal to those clubs on current performance, etc. It's a real testimony to our club in recent years - 3 years ago when it was discussed we werent even a member. We dont *deserve* the same amount of CL revenue as Barca, Real, etc. The one I'd question is why Juve are doing so well

but other than that...

William · Jul 31, 2021

.h. said:
Don't be so naive. We're a long way from equal to those clubs on current performance, etc. It's a real testimony to our club in recent years - 3 years ago when it was discussed we werent even a member. We dont *deserve* the same amount of CL revenue as Barca, Real, etc. The one I'd question is why Juve are doing so well but other than that...

But Arsenal were going to get more than us, Tottenham for all their lack of glory too

. None of the clubs in the proposed ESL are equal! Real >>>Barca >>>>> jube but they had owners with big enough balls to demand an equal share! Had the egos to think they are equal. We merely lacked the back bone to tell them we want the same share, even if it meant their share would be less. There’s no true measure for the proposed ESL as to for who should get what as some clubs that were gonna get more of a share have less trophies, have won less recently, had more money but bigger debts etc so it comes down to demanding equality from all clubs across the board if you wanted to make a fair and entertaining super league competition. Else we’re watching Real win for the next 25 years! I wouldn’t be signing up to something where I’m the bit on the side for them to fuck over at their pleasure for a quarter of a century.

our owners haven’t proven with this act alone that they’re fucking incompetent, so they’re stay is well and truly over in my books.

.h. · Jul 31, 2021

Lol. Not even close to reality, tbh. If we had 'shown some backbone', we'd have been replaced by some shitter like Sevilla. Who actually have a far higher coefficient than we do right now. For all the criticism of Tottenham, they recently made a CL final. We cant even get out of the group stages. Even Arsenal are lightyears ahead of us on UEFA coefficient right now.

Again, point is, if there's a party, we need to be there, or we're fighting for scraps in the league and a *massively* diminished CL. They were absolutely right to go for it, and to agree on what waas discussed.

Truth is, its not even really about success, its more about revenue - clubs with higher revenues were going to get bigger slices of the pie. It's not perfect correlation (e.g. Juve), but its not far off.

We're not even a bit on the side for Real to win at the moment, at leaast if we were in the ESL we'd be able to compete for it. And if the ESL went ahead without us, we'd be competing against the league champions of Khazakhstan and Turkmenistan to win a goat and 3 pots of ramen, because that'd probably be the prize money by everything settled.

William · Jul 31, 2021

.h. said:
Lol. Not even close to reality, tbh. If we had 'shown some backbone', we'd have been replaced by some shitter like Sevilla. Who actually have a far higher coefficient than we do right now. For all the criticism of Tottenham, they recently made a CL final. We cant even get out of the group stages. Even Arsenal are lightyears ahead of us on UEFA coefficient right now.

Again, point is, if there's a party, we need to be there, or we're fighting for scraps in the league and a *massively* diminished CL. They were absolutely right to go for it, and to agree on what waas discussed.

Truth is, its not even really about success, its more about revenue - clubs with higher revenues were going to get bigger slices of the pie. It's not perfect correlation (e.g. Juve), but its not far off.

We're not even a bit on the side for Real to win at the moment, at leaast if we were in the ESL we'd be able to compete for it. And if the ESL went ahead without us, we'd be competing against the league champions of Khazakhstan and Turkmenistan to win a goat and 3 pots of ramen, because that'd probably be the prize money by everything settled.

You can’t know that though! You don’t know that we wouldn’t be kicked out for demanding an equal share! And who are we meant to be answering to in this scenario? If it’s fucking Agnelli I’d 100% be asking for more!!! Jube trying to shaft Inter off the pitch isn’t anything new but this was our deduction to put our balls in Agnellis purse! Imagine us and Milan said no for not getting equal shares despite the two of us combined being better in the CL and, at that point, our owners having the cash.

the German clubs weren’t interested/ couldn’t so yeah we might have had to play some smaller clubs till some of them became the new big clubs of their leagues but I can guarantee you that people would get bored of this fantasy league pretty soon if the financial share was so skewed that only 3 or 4 of the 16 teams ever won.

All that would have been achieved is a new league where we’re one of the bottom clubs that people would just laugh at, and we couldn’t even get relegated to save some pride! Every year getting bent over to take it! How long would you last before you stood up, hands in the hair and went nope I’m out!!!!??

Serie A any day mate. If they had kicked us out for demanding an equal share we’d still have a pretty good league (us, Napoli, Roma and Lazio) and the merda would finally be gone.

Playing against teams like Sevilla, Villarreal, Valencia, Porto, benfica, ajax, psv, Marseille, Lille, Bayern, Dortmund, Celtic etc… doesn’t sound all that bad. The EL would get some real shit clubs and yes the money would be reduced for the CL but all clubs would have to adapt. We would t be able to attract the best of the best players (can barely do that now anyway) but would be able to buy better players than other clubs in the league and to challenge in Europe so it balances out.

I hope this shit never returns while I’m alive. Also, to your point about competing, yes we could for 2/3 years max then the money differences/ disparity would take care of any fucking challenge for as long as we are in it. Imagine if we did win it! We’ve be compared to some team like Leicester and their 15/16 EPL title scenario where we get classed as a true underdog story. How fucking humiliating would that be.

.h. · Aug 1, 2021

William said:
You can’t know that though! You don’t know that we wouldn’t be kicked out for demanding an equal share! And who are we meant to be answering to in this scenario? If it’s fucking Agnelli I’d 100% be asking for more!!! Jube trying to shaft Inter off the pitch isn’t anything new but this was our deduction to put our balls in Agnellis purse! Imagine us and Milan said no for not getting equal shares despite the two of us combined being better in the CL and, at that point, our owners having the cash.

the German clubs weren’t interested/ couldn’t so yeah we might have had to play some smaller clubs till some of them became the new big clubs of their leagues but I can guarantee you that people would get bored of this fantasy league pretty soon if the financial share was so skewed that only 3 or 4 of the 16 teams ever won.

All that would have been achieved is a new league where we’re one of the bottom clubs that people would just laugh at, and we couldn’t even get relegated to save some pride! Every year getting bent over to take it! How long would you last before you stood up, hands in the hair and went nope I’m out!!!!??

Serie A any day mate. If they had kicked us out for demanding an equal share we’d still have a pretty good league (us, Napoli, Roma and Lazio) and the merda would finally be gone.

Playing against teams like Sevilla, Villarreal, Valencia, Porto, benfica, ajax, psv, Marseille, Lille, Bayern, Dortmund, Celtic etc… doesn’t sound all that bad. The EL would get some real shit clubs and yes the money would be reduced for the CL but all clubs would have to adapt. We would t be able to attract the best of the best players (can barely do that now anyway) but would be able to buy better players than other clubs in the league and to challenge in Europe so it balances out.

I hope this shit never returns while I’m alive. Also, to your point about competing, yes we could for 2/3 years max then the money differences/ disparity would take care of any fucking challenge for as long as we are in it. Imagine if we did win it! We’ve be compared to some team like Leicester and their 15/16 EPL title scenario where we get classed as a true underdog story. How fucking humiliating would that be.

1 - You do realise we ARE the underdogs already, right? If we won the CL, it'd basically be very similar to Leicester winning the EPL in 15/16.

2 - We might have more CL wins than Juve historically, but based on the last decade? No offense, but right now, we're probably behind clubs like Ajax. Have you SEEN the UEFA coefficients recently? We're not even in the top 20 clubs in Europe - we're 28th in fact, mostly because of the EL final run from last season - https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/#/yr/2021

Juve have made 2 finals in the last decade, we havent even been out of the group stage since 11/12?

Without Juve and Milan, even with us still there, revenue probably drops 30-40% in the league anyway. People pay to watch the biggest games. Same with matchday revenue, our attendence would plummet - our biggest 4 matches of the season pull in something like a quarter/a fifth of our matchday revenue.

If you're happy being at the kids table in life, then so be it, I'd rather be at the adults table. At least there we get good money, we can invest it into the team, and work our way up. In the kids table we'd never be able to.

Realistically, all the best players will move quickly to the ESL (sponsorship and wages will be much higher), and we'd be having our best players taken by shit clubs like Arsenal and Tottenham who dont even make the CL now. Like Lautaro - he'd be off in a heartbeat.

Don't be so naive

The share of money wasnt permanent, just the starting point. And, to be honest, right now its BASICALLY the difference we have between those clubs (if not less than) - Real, Man Utd, etc, make 2-3x our revenue easily. Why do you think we're entitledd to an equal share?

brehme1989 · Aug 1, 2021

It literally said money distribution for the next x years. Don't recall if it's 10 or 25. Years... As if this nonsense would last more than 5 years.

Sorry to sound harsh, but anyone defending this ESL shit has no business supporting a football club because you don't seem to grasp the basic aspects of it.

.h. · Aug 1, 2021

I agree, the ESL is bullshit and I was never a fan of it, or being in it. Horrendous idea.

but if it was going to go ahead, its important for us to have been in it. And even if we were entering as a bottom tier club, it'd still be the right decision to make sure we were there.

Pimpin · Aug 1, 2021

when fif asks zhang why he joined ESL on those terms

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