José "The Special One" Mourinho

bubba zanetti said:

Disagree on both parts. Klopp and Pep would do the same as Mou is doing now with Rome. They would fail big time. His style is out of date cause he is coaching now shitty teams. Give him PSG and with Mbappe,Messi and Neymar you'll see how his outdated football works. Last season Tottenham was killing everyone first half of season,killing City,ManU,Kane and Son were unstoppable.After that unfortunately loss against Liverpool shit started between him and players,same old shit like in Real and United. Thats a fact. So how can you say that he is outdated.He is not. He is not what he used to be,but give him job in Real(like Ancelotti who was also "outdated" in fkn Everton) or PSG and his outdated football will be minimum semifinal CL and wining/competing for domestic titles. There is no coach in the world that would bring this Roma team to top4,or that would achieve with this ManU premiership title. Look how bad they are.

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With the squd as it was when they took over, sure, I'm not suggesting overnight success. But having spent nearly 100m in the summer you'd expect some improvement. Like Mourinho at Inter of fully expect a major clear out of the squad, and it takes time to execute, but Roma are clearly underperforming even relative to the squad

brehme1989 said:

Nope, you just keep proving that your understanding of the sport comes from tabloid journalisms and the only thing you can go in-depth in is payroll stuff.

Otherwise you'd be able to BACK YOUR OWN WORDS!

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Nope, I just have no interest in arguing with a brick wall that pulls made up facts and insider evidence out of his back side. It's a waste of time, it's better for me, you, and this forum if we don't go down that road.

A decade or even five years ago I'd happily do this but I'm too old now for wasting my time in walls of text with you.

.h. said:

With the squd as it was when they took over, sure, I'm not suggesting overnight success. But having spent nearly 100m in the summer you'd expect some improvement. Like Mourinho at Inter of fully expect a major clear out of the squad, and it takes time to execute, but Roma are clearly underperforming even relative to the squad

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Inter was also underperforming that first season with spent big money on Quaresma,Mancini and Muntari(Yea,Inter won scudetto,but was shit in CL). They were all flop. Same thing with Roma,players that they bought are flop. It happens. It has nothing to do with outdated and decadent. So give him more time and money in Roma,like you would give to great modern,not outdated,coaches like Klopp and Pep,and he'll do his job in Roma. And that is top 4.

bubba zanetti said:

Inter was also underperforming that first season with spent big money on Quaresma,Mancini and Muntari(Yea,Inter won scudetto,but was shit in CL). They were all flop. Same thing with Roma,players that they bought are flop. It happens. It has nothing to do with outdated and decadent. So give him more time and money in Roma,like you would give to great modern,not outdated,coaches like Klopp and Pep,and he'll do his job in Roma. And that is top 4.

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Yeah I agreez we were and people here we're calling for him out. But we also didn't underperform this badly, we still won the league under Mourinho season 1.

I don't know the answer off hand, but where were Roma this time last year and how much net have they spent since?

.h. said:

Nope, I just have no interest in arguing with a brick wall that pulls made up facts and insider evidence out of his back side. It's a waste of time, it's better for me, you, and this forum if we don't go down that road.

A decade or even five years ago I'd happily do this but I'm too old now for wasting my time in walls of text with you.

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Okay, so you have no opinion on Mourinho's football style, nor have any evidence that it is outdated. I hear ya.

Yes that's definitely what I said


Lots of love xxxx

.h. said:

I don't know the answer off hand, but where were Roma this time last year and how much net have they spent since?

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Same competition this year and last year. Even more tabloid parroting.

After round 22 Roma were 4th last year 3 points clear with 43 points

This year they are 7th, depending on how Atalantas game in hand goes they could be 10 points off 4th, and they only have 35 points

Or is that too tabloidish

Lots of love xx

Actually fourth with 43 points after matchday 22 last season. This season sitting seventh on the same amount of points as eighth and with three teams in front having a game in hand. So the question should definitely be how he manages to spend 112mln.€ net in order to be eight points and three places worse than last season. I mean often enough the measure for Conte for example was having spent too much and the effect being too little when having spent 125mln.€ net and improving from fourth to second place with a plus margin of 13 points.

As for Klopp it shouldn't be even appropriate to put him into comparison with Mourinho. He improved Liverpool by a margin of 16 points from seventh to fourth by havin earned money in his two first seasons.

Forgot the conclusion in this one; Looking at the result generated by the investment one has to surely ask what exactly has become better at Roma since Mourinho has been there. Also it cannot be a coincidence there is a fallout almost in every club he has been after his Real Madrid experience. I won't go as far and say he is outdated, but his results clearly show that his career is hitting the wrong trajectory and everyone who is denying this is just biased by his past success with us.

Kova10 said:

Actually fourth with 43 points after matchday 22 last season. This season sitting seventh on the same amount of points as eighth and with three teams in front having a game in hand. So the question should definitely be how he manages to spend 112mln.€ net in order to be eight points and three places worse than last season. I mean often enough the measure for Conte for example was having spent too much and the effect being too little when having spent 125mln.€ net and improving from fourth to second place with a plus margin of 13 points.

As for Klopp it shouldn't be even appropriate to put him into comparison with Mourinho. He improved Liverpool by a margin of 16 points from seventh to fourth by havin earned money in his two first seasons.

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You fucking tabloidier!

Mourinho hasn't done well this season but it's not like Mourinho is the one running their transfer market. And he definitely needs a longer project to pull "Roma" out of this team. Calculating some points or transfer market figures is totally irrelevant at this point.

Whether he will get a longer project remains to be seen. He got 3 year contract but will Friedkins keep him if the results aren't arriving?

CafeCordoba said:

Mourinho hasn't done well this season but it's not like Mourinho is the one running their transfer market. And he definitely needs a longer project to pull "Roma" out of this team. Calculating some points or transfer market figures is totally irrelevant at this point.

Whether he will get a longer project remains to be seen. He got 3 year contract but will Friedkins keep him if the results aren't arriving?

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It's relevant in so far as being called a tabloid parrot who knows nothing about football. The team is demonstrably worse than last year, and as a statement of fact had a pretty sizeable net expenditure too.

bubba zanetti said:

Inter was also underperforming that first season with spent big money on Quaresma,Mancini and Muntari(Yea,Inter won scudetto,but was shit in CL). They were all flop. Same thing with Roma,players that they bought are flop. It happens. It has nothing to do with outdated and decadent. So give him more time and money in Roma,like you would give to great modern,not outdated,coaches like Klopp and Pep,and he'll do his job in Roma. And that is top 4.

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I wouldn't say we underperformed. We just performed on par with the level of the squad. We simply weren't good enough to go further in Europe. We had to change half of the starting lineup to make it happen.

Il Drago said:

I wouldn't say we underperformed. We just performed on par with the level of the squad. We simply weren't good enough to go further in Europe. We had to change half of the starting lineup to make it happen.

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I think but could be wrong the point was underperforming for the money we laidnoutx which is fair. We brought Quaremsa and Mancini expecting a different style of football and both of them were a total waste of space

Who would replace Mourinho? Clubs are struggling to find proper managers commensurate with the ambitions of their club.

.h. said:

After round 22 Roma were 4th last year 3 points clear with 43 points

This year they are 7th, depending on how Atalantas game in hand goes they could be 10 points off 4th, and they only have 35 points

Or is that too tabloidish

Lots of love xx

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Yes, it is. But I'll play along.

Lazio has the same exact points now as Roma after these 22 games. Lazio did not have a roster shake up, they have a better team and they also employed a "modern" coach in Sarri, who won Serie A two seasons ago (since you find that winning when Juventus cheats counts for something) and also won the last trophy that Mourinho won, just a couple of years later, in the Europa League. The same trophy that Conte did not manage to deliver under more favorable conditions (one off summer tournament rather than taking a toll during the season).

Roma last year was with Fonseca for the second season, he had already had a rotation in mind and it wasn't a work in progress like Mourinho's Roma currently is.

They also get to face Allegri, Sarri, Spalletti on top of Inzaghi with a better team, whereas last season none of these guys were in the league apart from Simone. Who did better than highly celebrated Sarri does now. CL last 16 and more points, woohoo!


Basically all this points out that your arguments aren't based on much, it's just sentimentalities and yes, tabloid mentality because you cannot factor in dynamic changes in competitions. 22 games, lol. Do you realize that this just means 1 round and 3 games? You didn't even bother to check which those three extra games are...

"Mourinho is finished" has been a tabloid chant ever since he left Chelsea for the second time, despite winning them the league. It replaced the previous chant of "Mourinho plays defensively", despite his teams breaking all the records in Spain and Europe for scoring and they were actually a beauty to watch in his second season.

But sure, keep reading those tabloids. It serves you well. I'm pretty sure you also believe that Fonseca was a crap coach for not winning with Roma. I sure don't believe he was half-bad. Wasn't great, but he's no Mourinho. And it'll show if Roma is serious. Which they aren't.

Kova10 said:

As for Klopp it shouldn't be even appropriate to put him into comparison with Mourinho. He improved Liverpool by a margin of 16 points from seventh to fourth by havin earned money in his two first seasons.

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Want to compare Klopp with current Roma situation? Tell us about his Dortmund years. They were in an even better position than Roma was, don't let the standings fool you. Hint, check their Cup progress that year.

Then tell us how many years it took Klopp to win something there and create a dangerous side. Then tell us if he was "finished" when he lost the league to Bayern with a 25 point gap, the same year he lost the CL final...

Kova10 said:

but his results clearly show that his career is hitting the wrong trajectory and everyone who is denying this is just biased by his past success with us.

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Of course it is. He was coaching Tottenham and is now coaching Roma. Has only himself to blame for taking that Tottenham job, especially in the middle of the season.

Even so, he took Tottenham to a cup final and they didn't even let him play it

brehme1989 said:

Want to compare Klopp with current Roma situation? Tell us about his Dortmund years. They were in an even better position than Roma was, don't let the standings fool you. Hint, check their Cup progress that year.

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What are you talking about? Dortmund were battling to avoid relegation and on a terrible financial state when they hired Klopp. He literally built Dortmund from scratch with a laughable budget.

B

Il Drago said:

What are you talking about? Dortmund were battling to avoid relegation and on a terrible financial state when they hired Klopp. He literally built Dortmund from scratch with a laughable budget.

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It's not worth it!

Il Drago said:

What are you talking about? Dortmund were battling to avoid relegation and on a terrible financial state when they hired Klopp. He literally built Dortmund from scratch with a laughable budget.

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Well, partly true. From scratch assumes that the team was dismantled and Klopp had to come up with a new roster. That wasn't the case. Their finances on the other hand were a mess, that's obvious.

Dortmund were Cup runners up (okay, easy run but still), they had a decent squad, it's not as if their football foundations were as bad as the table suggests. There wasn't a massive overhaul, it was very gradual. Sure, their finances were a mess. They were genuinely midtable due to restricted finances, yet they were still spending decent amounts compared with their peers. They were making bad deals, but they also made a lot of those when Klopp was there. They were never big spenders but they were prudent and it's typical of Klopp to have a say in transfers and they're usually spot on. And even if Mourinho was given the same free rein, he'd not be as good at it.

Klopp did change most of the team by the time he had to win, that's a given. That's also what Mourinho has to do. Almost none of those shitters are CL calibre players. Zaniolo is ruined by injuries, Spinazzola is hospitalized and then there's just Pellegrini. Arguably Rui Patricio, but he has to learn the language as well. It's not just a player card that plays, it's a human being.

At Liverpool the situation was much different than both Dortmund and Roma.

The reason why Dortmund was in a better situation than Roma is now is based on how football is. You need more money, back then good players would join teams more easily, now (2010s) they want the team to be in the Champions League, until the late 2000s that was just a luxury they enjoyed, but not the catalyst unless it was between mid-tier league teams (PSV plays in CL, Ajax does not, player prefers move to PSV etc. Same player now doesn't even blink when those two clubs approach him). Also German football was far more fluid. Bayern wasn't in the position they are now, Schalke was awkward, Wolfsburg was a firework, Hamburg was inconsistent. There was an opening. In Italy now you have 5 established sides ahead of Roma and maybe 2 more on the same level with the same ambition. Roma can spend more, but they're bad spenders as we saw over the last 5-6 years. No matter the management. Monchi, Pinto with these guys...