Italian Serie A 2021/2022

CafeCordoba

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But that does matter. In sham transactions, the auditor is analysing the true nature of the transaction, who fiscally benefited, and the business purpose.

Allegedly in the Pinmonte case, he was disposed of for above FMV, and then repurchased for that FMV or above. Actual consideration was exchanged. So whatever tax benefit was obtained was offset.

In the Juve - Barca swap, you have a sham transaction, inadequate consideration, and no real business purpose, since neither player made their clubs more competitive.

Of course these allegations are hard to prove, but essentially the auditors are considering 1) whether a fiscal benefit resulted, 2) did the parties device or disguise the true nature of the transaction, and was 3) there a bona fide business purpose.

I think this will all depend on the evidence the auditors have in their possession.

If for example, there was evidence to show that Juve was demanding 20 million for Pjanic and he was disposed of for a valuation of 50 million than that's a solid case and similar for Arthur, if Barca was shopping him around for 20 million and 2 months later sold him for a valuation for 30 plus million that will show he was disposed for above FMV.
How can they prove Pjanic-Arthur was a sham transaction? Two players changed clubs and both played for those clubs. It's impossible to prove there wasn't business purpose in that transaction.

Only case I can see there is something tangible is that there's the "smoking gun" ie. they've wiretapped the fuck out of Juve directors and hear them say this guy is worth nothing but we value him this and this much in the deal to create artificial plusvalenza.
 

Verathia

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How can they prove Pjanic-Arthur was a sham transaction? Two players changed clubs and both played for those clubs. It's impossible to prove there wasn't business purpose in that transaction.

Only case I can see there is something tangible is that there's the "smoking gun" ie. they've wiretapped the fuck out of Juve directors and hear them say this guy is worth nothing but we value him this and this much in the deal to create artificial plusvalenza.
They are reportedly on tape saying it.
 

PHM1605

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Wait, how about Suarez's fake language test? Suarez himself admitted he cheated. Did they only punish that bitch from University of Perugia but but not Juve?


There should be an accumulated penalty and that pile of shit of a club should be erased from the Earth.
 

Jusef

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How can they prove Pjanic-Arthur was a sham transaction? Two players changed clubs and both played for those clubs. It's impossible to prove there wasn't business purpose in that transaction.

Only case I can see there is something tangible is that there's the "smoking gun" ie. they've wiretapped the fuck out of Juve directors and hear them say this guy is worth nothing but we value him this and this much in the deal to create artificial plusvalenza.
Well I think in these sham transactions there is usually a reverse onus, where Juve will need to demonstrate the business purpose.

Also they will take this by stages. First they will seek to recharacterize the transaction.

Should Juve have registered a capital gain? What was Arthur’s real FMV value and what was Pjanic’s?

If there is enough circumstantial evidence that shows the two players were not valued at x price they should be able to set aside the capital gain.

From there they could potentially see how how negligent the decision makers were and criminally charge.
 

thatdude

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Why is this good news? how else can Serie a compete with wages EPL and PSG are throwing around?
Yeah this is going backwards imo
 

forzainter257

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Forget about Arthur - Pjanic deal, they are players with decent recognition and market value. How about Rube carrying out shady deals involving their noname youngsters whose market values were inflated as fuck to gain plusvalenza?

Pinamonti on the other hand, had a fair price in line with his market value at the time. He was a key player in Italy's U19 in European Championship and U20 in the FIFA youth WC, scored bunch of goals for primavera, had loan spells at serie A clubs. 20 M for such a hot prospect was actually a steal.
 

CafeCordoba

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GTFO with Pinamonti's 20m valuation being fair. :D

I'm also more interested in those deals where Juve swapped random names for several millions with Marseille.

The point is however it's simply impossible to determine this fair value. Who is going to prove it and how will that proof hold in court?
 
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forzainter257

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GTFO with Pinamonti's 20m valuation being fair. :D
well I understand your reaction cause you are judging his value based on his status @ Inter. We have 4 strikers and you wouldn't spend 20M on a 5th striker like Pinamonti. But two years ago or when was it, you probably wasn't willing to let him go for less than that. Cutrone was sold to Wolves for what? 30 M? correct me if I'm wrong.

There are also clubs who would select him as their main striker given their limited budget and inferior squad, for an example Empoli, hence would be tempted to spend that sum. But would they spend 10M on an average player just rolled out from primavera with no achievement like the players from rube's deals are? Ok if you had 2-3 such shady deals, but when it's more than 40 deals of course it's gonna draw attention.

And some of you guys be like you are ok with rube having gains like that cause you believe Inter was also involved in similar deals although you do realize our actions were reasonable, however it feels like you are considering it as if we are in the same boat. Fuck them scums, they should be penalized severely. We were collecting our money literally by spoon while they were generating the cash by just fake deals.
 

.h.

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Honestly we basically are in the same boat. We practically invented this. The differences are that our scale is less than Juve and we aren't a listed company. But every end of season when we would talk about Ausilios plus valenza target to meet FFP requirements - what do you think that was?
 

wera

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Vlahovic 12th Serie A goal. Dzeko&Lautaro has 14 between them.
Haven't you heard, he is shit because we didn't buy him

It's good that he is doing well, it's only the start of december and he is already at 12
 

rockball

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The better he does, the more they want for him, and chances of him going to Jube are lesser. Unless of course, he acts cuntish like his predecessors at Fiorentina did.
 

SiamoNoi

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I want juve destroyed but I wonder what yet another scandal in Italian football will do in terms of damage to the reputation of the league and its attractiveness to investors, fans and players alike
Couldn't care less about reputation of the league.
 

wera

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The better he does, the more they want for him, and chances of him going to Jube are lesser. Unless of course, he acts cuntish like his predecessors at Fiorentina did.
All first depends if Juve's downfall happens
 

YoramG

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GTFO with Pinamonti's 20m valuation being fair. :D
I'm just saying, the guy is sitting on 5 goals this season, which is the same as Osihmen, Ibra, and Lorenzo Pellegrini. It's also more than: Insigne, Dybala, Chiesa, Morata, Belotti, Raspadori, Scamacca, Giroud, Leao, Kean, etc., etc. While playing for Empoli :lol:

I'm fully aware that 20m at the time we sold him was bullshit. But were we to be investigated for it for it now (which we're categorically not), there's all the evidence right there that he is now fulfilling that price tag :yao:
 

Jusef

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GTFO with Pinamonti's 20m valuation being fair. :D

I'm also more interested in those deals where Juve swapped random names for several millions with Marseille.

The point is however it's simply impossible to determine this fair value. Who is going to prove it and how will that proof hold in court?
Spoken like a true accountant.

This is exactly why they are in trouble and why many big accounting firms are recruiting people with legal backgrounds.

Many accountants can’t get past their accounting principles.

But tax rules are drafted by legal experts or lawyers.

The issue is not that A was willing to pay B x amount, which is equal to FMV.

The issue is you used tax rules to create a fiscal advantage that is not real.
 
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