Benjamin Pavard

[Il Drago]

What's with the revisionist history? Pavard was fantastic last season.

Just typical recency bias. It's hilarious really. People were calling him world class till Atletico game.

 

[brakbrak]

What's with the revisionist history? Pavard was fantastic last season.

And people forgot how dreadful Bisseck had been defensively before the Arsenal game. As Il drago said, it's recency bias. People have short term memory.

 

[Kramerica Industries]

Just typical recency bias. It's hilarious really. People were calling him world class till Atletico game.

He was a 10/10 player in the Juventus game in February.

 

[Damageplan]

Or maybe we expect more from him considering his credentials ? I was calling for him back after seeing some of Bissecks performances but at this point they are pretty much the same.

 

[vex]

Our three expensive signings (20m euros +) since austerity started have been Correa, Pavard and Frattesi and all three have underwhelmed at best.

We paid 30 mil for pavard, I would say given the prices players go for these days, he showed more than enough quality for that type of money. Price was fair as fuck imo. To illustrate that, just about five mill less (so 25 mil) is where milan operates with their transfers, and you can clearly see what kind of russian roulette you are playing with players in that price range.

 

[RickyMaravilla'sRightFoot]

He’s not convincing as much as he did last year with several brain farts to boot, but he’s still a very intelligent and skilled player. His speed is a bit of an issue for pacy attacking wingers, but that’s our entire team tbh.. the tactics need to account for our lack of pace.

I think he’ll return to form eventually. We may even see him in the center at point. Acerbi’s body is declining rapidly, Bastoni is too good on the left, and I doubt Inzaghi would trust Bisseck to play as CCB in a big match.

 

[CraigM]

Maybe my expectations were excessive but I thought the plan for Pavard was for him to be something akin to the right-sided version of Bastoni, a balanced player who could push forward and add another creative element to the build-up. We know Inzaghi is happy for his central defenders to do this. In reality we have seen little of this, even when he has played with Darmian at wing-back who himself is more defensively orientated. Bisseck looks much more of an attacking threat, carries the ball forward better, is an aerial threat in the opposition box and can even improvise to score weird goals like the 5th against Verona.

Their respective stats thus far:

Pavard - 3,493 mins - 0 goals - 4 assists
Bisseck - 1,950 mins - 3 goals - 3 assists

So Bisseck has offered more in a little over half of the playing time. The other role is the defensive side of course and while Bisseck has undoubtedly had some defensive lapses, he has put in some great performances too, especially in big games like the Man City one. Can anyone say they are especially convinced defensively by Pavard? He had moments last season undoubtedly, but he is as others mentioned susceptible to anyone running at him, anyone with a burst of pace over the first five yards he has gotten too close to and he is very, very poor when required to compete for defensive headers.

I'm not saying that Pavard has been a bad signing, but when judging these things all assessments have to be relative to cost. Pavard cost 4+ times as much as Bisseck and earns 4+ times in wages, even after Bisseck's new contract. I think Bisseck has been an excellent signing and all criticism of him has to be put through the filter of him costing us next to nothing. Criticism of Pavard has to be put through the filter of him being a senior-international with vast experience of elite club and Champions League football that we thought would be a game-changer.

 

[wera]

Bisseck was a gamble that worked out, while Pavard was a known commodity and ofc we paid more for him. I am glad we have both, plus also Darmian can slot in their place if needed.

There are many other gambles that don't pay off in football or even known players that are bought and don't deliver -> just look at Lukaku at Chelsea (his second run at Chelsea when we sold him)

It's not like it's easy to find 3 Bissecks for the money we paid for Pavard. Let's just be happy a gamble worked out and hopefully the same will happen with Palacios or Asllani.

 

[ADRossi]

Maybe my expectations were excessive but I thought the plan for Pavard was for him to be something akin to the right-sided version of Bastoni, a balanced player who could push forward and add another creative element to the build-up. We know Inzaghi is happy for his central defenders to do this. In reality we have seen little of this, even when he has played with Darmian at wing-back who himself is more defensively orientated. Bisseck looks much more of an attacking threat, carries the ball forward better, is an aerial threat in the opposition box and can even improvise to score weird goals like the 5th against Verona.

Their respective stats thus far:

Pavard - 3,493 mins - 0 goals - 4 assists
Bisseck - 1,950 mins - 3 goals - 3 assists

So Bisseck has offered more in a little over half of the playing time. The other role is the defensive side of course and while Bisseck has undoubtedly had some defensive lapses, he has put in some great performances too, especially in big games like the Man City one. Can anyone say they are especially convinced defensively by Pavard? He had moments last season undoubtedly, but he is as others mentioned susceptible to anyone running at him, anyone with a burst of pace over the first five yards he has gotten too close to and he is very, very poor when required to compete for defensive headers.

I'm not saying that Pavard has been a bad signing, but when judging these things all assessments have to be relative to cost. Pavard cost 4+ times as much as Bisseck and earns 4+ times in wages, even after Bisseck's new contract. I think Bisseck has been an excellent signing and all criticism of him has to be put through the filter of him costing us next to nothing. Criticism of Pavard has to be put through the filter of him being a senior-international with vast experience of elite club and Champions League football that we thought would be a game-changer.

But why are we evaluating a CB based on his attacking abilities? Sure, Inzaghi's system gives the wide center backs freedom to roam into the opponent's box, but that's not their primary function.

Pavard is a significantly better defender than Bisseck. It's not even close, regardless of whether you're using the eye test or advanced stats. Pavard has 16 tackles this year. Bisseck has 5. Pavard has 10 interceptions. Bisseck has 4.

We bought a world class player for like 30M Euros. I have close to zero complaints about Pavard. The troubling thing is this is now the second year in a row he's picked up an annoying muscle injury. We'll see how long he's out for.

 

[#NotForMe]

I think it is fair to give credit where credit is due and criticize when they are not doing as expected.

I think the drop in Pavard's performance has to do with a bit of him taking out his own elements in the plays and following more our system, which has a bit of an autopilot mode feeling.

Damian might not be as athletic or skillful as Pavard, but I feel more intentional and presence of mind, even when following the system.

Also has to do a bit of his form.

He still has that WC level player in him, but he is not displaying this season so far.

Bisseck's improvement is a joy to watch, better focus, better understanding and better decisions. Like some other pointed out, they have very different traits which is a big plus for us, cause we can deploy accordingly to who we play, and so far it payed off well, which also gave a bit of a illusion of Bisseck better than he currently is (I still think he is good).

 

[Ffi201zi002tlis]

Pavard is good, but comparing with Darmian is a bit unfair to him. Darmian was like one of our best deals in the last 10 years.

 

[Damageplan]

Dont think anyone can deny his class but his form is subpar to say the least and I have a feeling it started with him being left out of the NT first 11. I think that hit him more than we could have imagined.

 

[brehme1989]

People have short term memory.

They have memory?

 

[Alex de Large]

Does anyone feel a Bissek-Pavard-Bastoni for the next future?
Bissek-Bastoni have a very good size so that kind of balance things. And wasn't Pavard who wanted to play CB and not RB? ....

 

[wera]

RCB is not RB

We don't play with a RB. He is still playing a centerback, just on the right side, while Dumfries is RWB

 

[Alex de Large]

Yes i know, RCB is the perfect position for him. Thing is Bissek deserves to start.
And i like more Bissek RCB and Pavard CB than Bissek CB and Pavard RCB.

 

[ADRossi]

Pavard is not good enough defensively to play in the middle of the defense and Bisseck is nearly good enough defensively to start next to Pavard. In order for Pavard or Bisseck to work at RCB they need the freedom to attack with a sort of reckless abandon, and that can't happen if they're playing together.

 

[qb4ever_2k]

Bayern's retired Pavard's number 5.

 

[wera]

I'm a big fan of the guy but I believe he should be sacrificed so that we can afford another wingback or CB. His worth is halved if he can't even feature for months, better to get the most we can for him while we still can.

Dumfries plays better, Augusto plays better, while Frattesi isn't a good fit and Pavard is too injury prone, so these two should leave this summer.

 

[Besnik]

I'm a big fan of the guy but I believe he should be sacrificed so that we can afford another wingback or CB. His worth is halved if he can't even feature for months, better to get the most we can for him while we still can.

Dumfries plays better, Augusto plays better, while Frattesi isn't a good fit and Pavard is too injury prone, so these two should leave this summer.

It makes sense because the team is playing very well and defence has gotten its shit together without two key players like Pavard and Acerbi, but just because things are going well, club shouldn't make any premmature moves IMO.

Acerbi and de Vrij are at the end of their careers, especially Acerbi, while de Vrij doesn't have much time left while he's productive. It doesn't sound right to give up on Pavard already. He's only 28 years old, and he's been very impactful despite that he's had matches where he was below average or poor.

Then again, why would you claim Pavard as too injury prone? I thought he played major minutes, and injuries can occur at any time, to any player, especially how our schedule is very busy.

However I'm fine with letting Frattesi go. He doesn't suit to Inter's style of play. He needs to play way more at his age, therefore warming the bench at Inter and not being good enough is just damaging his career.