Best team(s) to not win the World Cup

[brehme1989]

Rules:
1) Must have not reached the Final in that given year. The title would have been too long if I were more explicit there :epicwin:
2) Must have at least qualified from the first round of the tournament.
3) The main criteria is always to compare relative to competition and their chances of winning in that specific year, not an overall ranking.

This disqualifies teams like the 70s Netherlands or 1950 Italy [with the assumption that Superga never happened] or 2002 Netherlands who hadn't qualified but could have been a contender, or 2002 France who knocked themselves out of the tournament. Or 1966 Italy who were the first big time chokers in World Cup football.

We are seeking for teams that actually did very well in the World Cup, were a contender, but just couldn't reach to the point of challenging for it.

Here are some of my picks, in no order.

1) 1982 Brazil. Led by possibly the greatest player in the world at the time, Zico, Brazil had fallen short in the 2nd round group stage after beating Argentina 3-1 (and Maradona was sent off at the end) after losing 3-2 to Paolo Rossi's hattrick with Italy in what is still considered one of the greatest upsets of World Cup history.
Zico was surrounded in midfield by Socrates and Falcao, two top players, and a solid defensive midfielder in Toninho Cerezo.

2) 1966 Portugal. Some argue that these guys were robbed. Their semi final tie was rearranged less than 24 hours before kick off, moving the tie from Liverpool to Wembley. A team that included Eusebio, Coluna, Jose Augusto and Jose Torres, they were one of the top teams of the 60s but did not manage to reach the World Cup Final.

3) 1998 Italy. One of the greatest Italian teams, imo with better chances than the equally great 1990 team, just didn't have the luck to beat the French in the PKs. A team that included Maldini, Roberto Baggio, Vieri, Nesta, Cannavaro, Del Piero, Albertini, 3 top GKs in Pagliuca, Toldo and Peruzzi, veterans Bergomi and Costacurta, Di Biagio and a young Pippo Inzaghi. Arguably boasts a greater team selection than the 2006 wining squad.

4) 1998 Netherlands. Sticking to this tournament, where we could even talk about Croatia and Argentina, we have one of the greatest sides to never win in what was possibly their greatest chance ever. Losing to PKs to Ronaldo's Brazil, this team included the core of the great Ajax side coupled with some amazing PSV players from that generation that ended up flooding Barcelona, the top Serie A sides and some strong PL sides with names such as Bergkamp, Seedorf, Davids, Cocu, Kluivert, Stam, Frank De Boer, Overmars, Hasselbaink. Van der Sar, Zenden, Reiziger, Jonk and Winter.

5) 1938 Brazi. A rather unknown and forgotten one. Brazil didn't really start to dominate world football until the late 50s, but it could have all started earlier. They boasted the best attacking side in the World Cup but for some odd reason their manager decided to bench the team's star players in the semi final, losing to Italy in the process. It is said that the Italian manager (Vittorio Pozzo) asked his counterpart "What were you thinking? You're going to lose" before the match started and his reply was something cocky along the lines of "Nah, we got this". Italy won 2-1

6) 1986 France. An underrated choice here, France led by Platini with Giresse, Tigana and Fernandez in the midfield is widely considered as one of the top sides of the 80s from Europe. France lost to Germany 0-2 in the semis, but have had the greatest missed chance in World Cup history go against them as Bossis failed to equalize on the rebound in an open net, sending it over! Ironically, the same player that missed a vital penalty in the shootout vs the Germans in 1982. Could have been a great final versus Argentina. Possibly the only midfield in the World Cup that could contain Maradona somehow.
The 1982 French team deserves an honorable mention. Many argue it was a better team than the 1986 one.

7) 1986 Spain. Another double entry. A team made up of the greatest Real Madrid team since Di Stefano with Butragueno and Camacho leading the pack, a great GK in Zubizarreta followed by Bilbao teammate Goikoetxea and several others from a reviving Barcelona, plus a bonus addition of their recent/current manager in Quique Setien who was playing for Atletico Madrid at the time. Unlucky in the PKs vs Belgium in the quarters, which sent them home instead of facing Maradona's Argentina.

8) 1974 Poland. When people say football is unfair, this one should come to mind. Led by the great Lato who won the Golden Boot, the Poles beat an Italian team consisting of Facchetti, Mazzola, Burgnich, Zoff, Anastasi, Capello and Boninsegna. They also beat an Argentina team that was on the rise. A defensive hiccup against Germany in the final group stage allowed Gerd Muller to get an easy goal and complete a 1-0 win over Poland, which would send them to the 3rd place game against Brazil. Which they won.

9) 1978 Italy. A very underrated Italian team that is almost forgotten. Eclipsed by the 1982 winning team perhaps, but this team had nothing to be envious of the next one. The myth of "Italy does well after a bad group stage" was born here, as Italy had beaten all 3 rivals (eventual winners Argentina, France, Hungary) in the first group stage, a win against Austria, a draw vs Germany but eventually lost 2-1 to the Dutch who were struggling until that point, apart from a big win vs Austria, and lost their place in an epic final vs Argentina. Italy collapsed after a 1-0 half time score with a 2-1 defeat.

10) 2006 Argentina. Despite the absurd decision to leave Zanetti home, Pekerman's side was really good. Except that Pekerman managed to fuck it up himself, subbing Riquelme off (for our own Cambiasso) and invited Germany to attack, equalize and then beat them in PKs. A young Messi lost his chance to win the World Cup (okay, he was mostly benched). Not really the greatest Argentina team to not win, but possibly the one with the greatest chances. [I find the 1998 their most talented to not reach the final].

11) 2002 Spain. A team robbed by Korea, just like Italy, of its chance to go far in the World Cup. This team had Hierro in his prime, Raul at his absolute peak, Mendieta was in good shape, Sociedad's De Pedro was replicating his great form in the international stage, Tristan and Morientes rotating, a combination of Valencia and Deportivo midfield (Baraja, Valeron, Albelda), a young Carles Puyol slotted on the right side, wingers in Luis Enrique and a young Joaquin. This felt like the greatest Spanish side until that point and possibly still holds a place near or at the top. The Final should have been Brazil vs Spain imo and it's a shame we didn't get Italy vs Spain in the quarters to say the least.

Honorable mentions:
2010 Germany
2010 Uruguay
1994 Argentina
1998 Argentina
1994 Spain
1990 Italy
2018 Belgium
1970 (W.) Germany
2006 Portugal
2014 Colombia
1998 Croatia

Any other ideas? Any objections?

Who do you rate as the best under these criteria?

 

[KevinB]

2006 Brazil. Prime Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Juninho, Roberto Carlos and Ronaldo (arguably over his prime) but jesus what an attack they had.

 

[ADRossi]

2006 Brazil. Prime Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Juninho, Roberto Carlos and Ronaldo (arguably over his prime) but jesus what an attack they had.

This was my initial thought as well. That team was absolutely loaded.

Only other team that comes to mind for me is 2010 Uruguay. That was a really exciting team to watch with an elite attacking trident of Forlan, Cavani, and Suarez. If Suarez didn't get himself suspended for the semi, maybe they would have won it all (although using that logic they would have lost to Ghana).

 

[Adriano]

2006 Brazil. Prime Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Juninho, Roberto Carlos and Ronaldo (arguably over his prime) but jesus what an attack they had.

they basically got kicked out because in a close competitive battle, one of the greatest defenders of all time was busy fixing his socks and left one of the top strikers in europe unmarked for a tap-in (though zizou and henry certainly made it look easier than it was)

insane lol

 

[Il Drago]

2006 Brazil. Prime Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Juninho, Roberto Carlos and Ronaldo (arguably over his prime) but jesus what an attack they had.

2006 world cup was a hard pill to swallow as a Brazil fan. That team could have looked outstanding on paper but it had serious gaps thanks to Parreira choice to trust the veterans. Cafu and Roberto Carlos were way past their prime. Parreira left Maicon and Dani Alves at home in order to call up freaking Cicinho only because he was playing at Real. In midfield he chose to start with grandpa Emerson and Ze Roberto who had recently turned into a CM because he didn't have the legs to be a winger anymore instead of Gilberto Silva and Juninho in their prime. The attack was indeed impressive but Parreira even managed to fuck that up by benching Adriano against France.

 

[Universe]

this entire thread only exists so that brehme can show off his useless encyclopedic knowledge of black and white football history

 

[Adriano]

2006 world cup was a hard pill to swallow as a Brazil fan. That team could have looked outstanding on paper but it had serious gaps thanks to Parreira choice to trust the veterans. Cafu and Roberto Carlos were way past their prime. Parreira left Maicon and Dani Alves at home in order to call up freaking Cicinho only because he was playing at Real. In midfield he chose to start with grandpa Emerson and Ze Roberto who had recently turned into a CM because he didn't have the legs to be a winger anymore instead of Gilberto Silva and Juninho in their prime. The attack was indeed impressive but Parreira even managed to fuck that up by benching Adriano against France.

yea the maicon thing especially was just stupid, thats as dumb as argentina in 2010 not having an in-form veteran leader like zanetti on the squad (idc how old he was in age, he was still a beast) or barely giving milito any playing time behind aguero and higuain in 2010 world cup after the form he was in

as for aged players getting playing time, they had someone (who at that time was still a decent player) as creative and quick as robinho just chilling on the bench lool

ronaldo really was struggling with his fitness by then (still bagged goals though what a legend lol), i think if they made an adjustment earlier and used adriano as more of a central focal point up there as the main striker i think they would've had more success (though that france game, zizou has always been brazils kryptonite so i feel like they might've won in penalties or something either way), they seemed to try and play entirely through ronaldo at times asking too much of him

adriano seemed like an afterthought in that attack it was kinda annoying especially considering what he did in confederations cup and just in general during that period, probably one of the best forwards in the world - they hardly involved him in a lot of the possessions, he barely even got any shot attempts off half the time, heck even some PERFECT adriano ranged freekicks were missed opportunities (but i guess that team had a lot of amazing freekick takers so i can understand that as me being a bit biased lol..juninho, ronaldinho, roberto carlos etc certainly have more right to take 'em)

i will say though, ronaldinhos performance is harder to excuse, he seemed to have simply just shrunk and disappeared, it was really a strange thing to witness


i think 2006 argentina portugal and brazil all have a case, those were some impressive squads they had

also netherlands in '98 were a pretty strong team as well

 

[brehme1989]

this entire thread only exists so that brehme can show off his useless encyclopedic knowledge of black and white football history

That would have hurt if I wasn't a bot.

- - - Updated - - -

I loved Brazil but 2006 wasn't in no shape their year. They just were a collection of names and Adriano wasn't utilized. Reminds me of 2002 Argentina.

 

[firmino]

Brazil did not deserve it in 1982, half of their failure was a consequence of their arrogance, they thought they couldn't possibly not win.

A couple of years ago one of the players of that team still bitched about that Italy-Brazil 3-2, claiming that Italy winning the world cup paved the way to the success of a defensive-minded football worldwide.

I mean, while it is true that Italy for many years played kind of a defensive-minded football, you cannot build that argument on a match that ended 3-2.

Maybe I'll add something later, I need to dig into my (not so vast anyway) knowledge of the World Cups.

A piece of trivia: for many years, there was a legend that Meazza in 1938 scored the penalty of the 2-0 against brazil while holding his shorts with one hand because the cotton band was supposedly broken by a defender of the other team who fouled him.

The very poor images from that time don't seem to confirm it, and the historians of football now tend to believe it is just a legend: one of the reasons being that the Italian coach Vittorio Pozzo, who was also a journalist, wrote a piece on the match (on La Stampa, the day after the he match itself) and didn't mention this, despite describing the penalty itself for a few lines.

Source (in italian): https://carotenuto.blogautore.repub...ndiali-1938-il-giallo-dellelastico-di-meazza/

 

[brehme1989]

That Italy team was anything but defensive.

 

[Glass box]

Honorable mentions:
2010 Germany
2010 Uruguay
1994 Argentina
1998 Argentina
1994 Spain
1990 Italy
2018 Belgium
1970 (W.) Germany
2006 Portugal
2014 Colombia
1998 Croatia

Any other ideas? Any objections?

Who do you rate as the best under these criteria?

Anyone born during the earlier existence of Yugoslavia in almost all ex-Yugoslavian countries would be like:

Yugoslavia every time they played from 1950-1990.

Heard a thousand of complaints how they were unlucky/screwed by refs/conspiracy theories/etc. and somehow didn't win.

 

[brehme1989]

Their late 60s team was great. Played in the 1970 world cup.

Not sure how good their 82 squad was, they were not a regular fixture in the World Cup.

And even better would have been the what if 90s teams, with the 90 squad showing their potency. Could deserve a mention there.

 

[Glass box]

Their late 60s team was great. Played in the 1970 world cup.

Not sure how good their 82 squad was, they were not a regular fixture in the World Cup.

And even better would have been the what if 90s teams, with the 90 squad showing their potency. Could deserve a mention there.

Yeah I can tell for the 90s. Even recently. But 1+1 is not always 2 in this matter, one coach should have composed all the good players in one place and maybe leave out someone who is better than someone else, on the bench or even the whole squad.

For example Croatia did well so far on their own, who knows if Yugoslavia would've fared better. It's only a what if.

 

[brehme1989]

2006 actually was wide open. Some people here have argued Brazil, I've mentioned Argentina and Portugal, but an underrated option is Spain. Maybe the fact that they've won the next one softens this up a bit. A late loss to France after a perfect 1st round for them. Obviously Italy, France and Germany were great sides as well in that World Cup. The Dutch were another great option. That probably was the last World Cup with more than 4 sides that anyone could have argued that they could win it.

I liked Ghana a lot back then and they paid me big 4 years later in 2010 when I placed a bet they'd be the best African side. Overhype express in the English national team had a great chance as well but they never really were any good in this tournament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_FIFA_World_Cup_squads

Some of these are just wow. Also teams that got knocked out early such as the Czechs and the Ivorians were promising.

 

[Native]

This only goes to show there aren't enough World Cups. I get that having one every 2 years instead of 4 might have it lose some prestige. But the sheer amount of insanely talented sides that came so close, yet never got to win it because you can only have 2 WC tournaments before players get old and teams refresh, is just much worse, it makes the losses almost traumatizing. So many talented players who deserved it so much but never won it because you just rarely get the chance. Even now the Ronaldo Messi duo serves as an example of this. And who wouldn't have liked seeing most of the sides mentioned in the opening post getting to lift that trophy?

 

[Adriano]

This only goes to show there aren't enough World Cups. I get that having one every 2 years instead of 4 might have it lose some prestige. But the sheer amount of insanely talented sides that came so close, yet never got to win it because you can only have 2 WC tournaments before players get old and teams refresh, is just much worse, it makes the losses almost traumatizing. So many talented players who deserved it so much but never won it because you just rarely get the chance. Even now the Ronaldo Messi duo serves as an example of this. And who wouldn't have liked seeing most of the sides mentioned in the opening post getting to lift that trophy?

its such a massive event, even 4 years, unfortunately, isn't enough sometimes it seems for some of the lesser wealthier host nations to get it together, so often looks like a scramble and rush to be ready

but yea, we miss out on so many exciting matchups and storylines with players and teams