Calling up Nationalized players?

Earth

Capitano
Capitano
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
2,271
Likes
872
Favorite Player
Skriniar
10 years of FIF
Please someone, close this thread, or keep it open and give infractions to anyone derailing other threads about this specific specific subject. I think all FIF members have had enough of this argument spreading everywhere, like the gago discussion.
 

I4E

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Messages
12,450
Likes
76
Favorite Player
₩€$£€¥
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
Better here than everywhere else...
 

Kakaroto

BLACK JESUS
La Grande Inter
Joined
Dec 26, 2010
Messages
11,727
Likes
552
Favorite Player
+ 15K Likes
Old username
Black Jesus
10 years of FIF
WE ARE THE WORLD!!! WE ARE THE CHILDREN!!!!


Sing it with me people!!
 

Fitzy

La Grande Inter
La Grande Inter
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
12,745
Likes
4,548
Favorite Player
Zanetti
Forum Supporter
Most Humorous Member
10 years of FIF
:lol:

So a few countries should only be allowed to call up a certain number of its own citizens of certain backgrounds to represent them, yet others (USA etc) can call up whoever they like. Funny as fuck.
 

Pimpin

I'm better than Icardi
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
17,325
Likes
1,599
Favorite Player
22IcardiBroHand
Old username
DomesticatedPimp
10 years of FIF
If you had a bit of education and know the history of america and australia then you'd understand it
 

Fitzy

La Grande Inter
La Grande Inter
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
12,745
Likes
4,548
Favorite Player
Zanetti
Forum Supporter
Most Humorous Member
10 years of FIF
If you had a bit of education and know the history of america and australia then you'd understand it

:lol:

I just find the idea of limits ludicrous and hilarious.
 

wera

might be Deadpool
La Grande Inter
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
34,152
Likes
13,419
Favorite Player
Bea Arthur
10 years of FIF
Most Diverse Poster
I still don't know if Pimpin is serious or not because he did the Allan > Nainggolan thing to me yesterday
 

Pimpin

I'm better than Icardi
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
17,325
Likes
1,599
Favorite Player
22IcardiBroHand
Old username
DomesticatedPimp
10 years of FIF
I still don't know if Pimpin is serious or not because he did the Allan > Nainggolan thing to me yesterday

i did many things to u son :p

btw check hip hop thread
 

wera

might be Deadpool
La Grande Inter
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
34,152
Likes
13,419
Favorite Player
Bea Arthur
10 years of FIF
Most Diverse Poster
I did check it.

Is Handanović a traitor like Shaqiri? It seems like the same example. If so, do you still support Handanović?
 

jmaster

Allenatore
Allenatore
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
6,181
Likes
27
Favorite Player
Il Capitano
i did many things to u son :p

whoa there man. whoa

SUFFERINGSUCCESS_610x0.jpg
 

Wings

Capitano
Capitano
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
3,768
Likes
95
10 years of FIF
What are you talking about? Country of birth? Just because you were born somewhere it doesnt even mean you lived there for more than a few days. If I was born in Malaysia because my parents were on a transfer flight, it doesn't mean im malaysian. Home is where the heart is.

I don't understand why you and Pimpin just lump all nationality cases together. Januzaj and Costa are clearly different cases. You know very well that Januzaj wasn't just born in a Belgian airport – he was born and raised in Belgium. If he feels more Belgian than Albanian, let him be. Why can't the kid choose his own nationality?

I might add that his parents aren't even from Albania – they're from Kosovo.

The entire premise of your argument seems to fixated on the idea that nationality should not/cannot change. Why are you so opposed to the idea of an immigrant changing his nationality? Why should European countries only be allowed to use players of their ethnicity while USA and Australia be allowed to use anyone? What about Belgium or Kosovo, who don't have a singular and unique ethnic group that identifies with the country?

It's not just about skin colour. I.E. the German NT shouldn't be composed of 10 ethnic English players.

Don't give me that leftist bullshit. Ethnicity/genes play a great part in your sporting career. Just like people of sub-Saharan African descent are the best sprinters, because they have more fast twitching muscle fibers in their thighs. Why is there only one white guy who has broken the 10 second barrier in 100m track?

And in football, the players that have the most innate/spontaneous footballing intelligence are of Southern/European Mediterrenean descent. 90-95% of the most creative #10s/Second Strikers have full/partial Southern European/Mediterrenean descent.

:palm: :palm: :palm:

You cannot be serious.

I usually don't use this emoticon, but this post is fully worthy of it.
 

Pimpin

I'm better than Icardi
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
17,325
Likes
1,599
Favorite Player
22IcardiBroHand
Old username
DomesticatedPimp
10 years of FIF
I don't understand why you and Pimpin just lump all nationality cases together. Januzaj and Costa are clearly different cases. You know very well that Januzaj wasn't just born in a Belgian airport – he was born and raised in Belgium. If he feels more Belgian than Albanian, let him be. Why can't the kid choose his own nationality?

I might add that his parents aren't even from Albania – they're from Kosovo.


.

if you were near me id beat the living shit out of you, you ignorant fuck :)
 

Kakaroto

BLACK JESUS
La Grande Inter
Joined
Dec 26, 2010
Messages
11,727
Likes
552
Favorite Player
+ 15K Likes
Old username
Black Jesus
10 years of FIF
Don't bring Kosovo into this....Shit is 'bout to go down now.... :pokerface:

Seriously though I think Pimpin's and Fap's seems to be influenced by personal things. I don't know if they are right or wrong since I'm not in any authority to deem that.

They are thinking about this as fans, they want their National team to be better. With all the guys that could be playing for them its hard to argue that they'd be better than they are now so I can't fault them for feeling this way.
 

Fapuccino

La Grande Inter
La Grande Inter
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
Messages
15,475
Likes
1,350
Favorite Player
Schelotto
I don't understand why you and Pimpin just lump all nationality cases together. Januzaj and Costa are clearly different cases. You know very well that Januzaj wasn't just born in a Belgian airport – he was born and raised in Belgium. If he feels more Belgian than Albanian, let him be. Why can't the kid choose his own nationality?

I might add that his parents aren't even from Albania – they're from Kosovo.

The entire premise of your argument seems to fixated on the idea that nationality should not/cannot change. Why are you so opposed to the idea of an immigrant changing his nationality? Why should European countries only be allowed to use players of their ethnicity while USA and Australia be allowed to use anyone? What about Belgium or Kosovo, who don't have a singular and unique ethnic group that identifies with the country?



:palm: :palm: :palm:

You cannot be serious.

I usually don't use this emoticon, but this post is fully worthy of it.

Here I'll help you with the difference between nationality and ethnicity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity

The thing that pisses me off is not when people pick another country because THEY FEEL like they belong to it, it's when they do so to further their careers.
 

Dylan

La Grande Inter
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
24,503
Likes
146
Favorite Player
Walter Samuel
10 years of FIF
FIF Special Ones
Guys just remember to try and keep things civil here. Feel free to tear at each others throats privately in messages to each other but just remember the rules. Don't start bringing up banned topics.



#ModMode #InformalWarning #CoolUncle #Procrastination
 

pencilpal

Capitano
Capitano
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
2,104
Likes
0
Favorite Player
Javier Zanetti
I'm going to write a very fucking long post about this issue, to end this discussion once and for all

I encourage everyone to read it, but keep in mind it will be fairly long

However, imo it will be worth it, given that it offers a resolution to this "problem"

- - - Updated - - -

It’s time to motherfucking end this ridiculous discussion right here, right now

Before I get into the argument, lets delve into some NECESSARY terminology to understand

Tbh the majority of this forum lacks a fundamental understanding of the differences between ethnicity and race; race is not dependent on ethnicity, and vice versa

Race is simply a group of people or a population descended from a common ancestor; you could even argue it is the categorization of humans based on similar physical characteristics

Ethnicity, on the other hand, is the affiliation or identity with a group of people bound by culture, language, religion etc; the trend is that people sharing an ethnicity possess similar racial bonds, but it is not an absolute characteristic

Note that I’m not saying that people with similar ethnicity possess similar race, just that there is a relation; in a practical context, you don’t necessarily need to be Ashkenazi to become Jewish, learn Hebrew/Yiddish, and follow general cultural customs; however, the general trend is that most Jews are Ashkenazi

There is some more terminology to understand, in particular the meaning of a nation as well as the nation state

In the context of ethnic geography, a nation is a tightly knit group of people possessing bonds of language, ethnicity, religion, and other shared cultural attributes

A nation state on the other hand is a state, or a country, where the population consists of only one nation; in other words, the population is ethnically and culturally homogenous

The meaning of nationality in countries like Albania, Slovenia, Hungary, Serbia, and Croatia is different than, say, France, Canada, Spain, and Germany, strictly because the former are all nation states, and the latter are all multinational states

The Yugoslavian conflict was purely motivated by the will to create a nation state, hence the initiation of ethnic cleansing and ethnically targeted genocide. This explains why the Balkans contain a relatively high density of nation states compared to any other region of the world (considering the high ethnic diversity)

One more definition to remember: nationality is generally regarded as the allegiance to a nation state

My argument is that race has no bearing on ethnicity, and therefore it has no bearing on nationality; so in other words, nationality is not dependent on race, but rather upon association with the culture/ethnicity of the nation state in question.

However, an observer may point out that countries like Spain and France are NOT nation states, and would be inclined to question what nation or ethnicity an individual would be aligning himself (or herself) towards in a multinational state, and therefore what nationality means in state with more than one principal nation/ethnicity

First let’s understand that a stable multinational state resembles a cultural melting pot, while an unstable multinational state resembles a cultural mosaic. Note that my definition of stability in this statement is dependent on the lack of conflict between the existing ethnicities within the multinational state in question

Then I would argue that in a stable multinational state, especially with the rise of globalization, racial and ethnic bonds are diminished in comparison to the development of a new hybrid culture, a nationality based on the links of ALL the existent ethnicities to a state

This is what it means to have patriotism or even nationalism; this is why (eg.) Brazilian cuisine isn’t referred to as a hybrid of African and Portuguese cuisine, why the Italian language isn’t referred to as a Florentine derivative of Latin, why Normans and the Provencal speak French as well as their traditional dialects of Breton and Occitan respectively

So a player like Zinedine Zidane may have the racial composition of a Berber, but has the ethnicity of a French individual

And this brings us to the principle of autonomy, how an individual has the RIGHT to choose what language to speak, what religion to follow, what ethnicity to be part of, REGARDLESS of their race

Hence why Ribery is still considered French, regardless of his following Islam; he is NOT obliged to follow Christianity because of him being racially Caucasian

In many cases, the synthesis of a national identity is a very difficult process; France is an excellent example, where despite the vast heterogeneity of the country, several “centripetal forces” initiated the development of a national identity (e.g. the French educational system, mandatory military service, state linguistic/cultural policies, as well as historical events like the Franco Prussian war and the World Wars).

Race is a meaningless characteristic; its notion was popularized during colonization to promote the superiority of certain physical characteristics over others, and tbh it should be COMPLETELY forgotten

Imo the perfect example that demonstrates my argument is a comparison between Kevin Prince Boateng and Jerome Boateng

The former played for the Ghana National Team while the latter played for the Germany national team

Why?

Both brothers were both born in Germany, and yet one declared a dissimilar nationality than the other

For the former Milan midfielder, it's because he was raised in an economically impoverished neighborhood, which he felt was alienated by the German government; as a result there was a lack of patriotism towards a German nationality in this area

Therefore when it came to choosing what senior national team he would play for, Ghana was an obvious choice, especially for someone who is a practicing Muslim and fluently speaks Akan (language of the Akan lands in Ghana); being ethnically tied to Ghana rather than Germany

Jerome on the other hand was raised in a relatively wealthy, middle class neighborhood of Berlin, and doesn’t speak Akan or practice Islam, declaring for the Germany National Team, being ethnically tied to Germany rather than Ghana

Mario Balotelli is another example of an ethnic Ghanaian who does not feel aligned with Ghana, who associates himself with Italy; an ITALIAN family raised him in Brescia, and he naturally feels tied to Italy rather than the country of his race.

This explains why he dropped the surname Barwuah in favor of Balotelli

There are countless other footballers who are not ethnically and culturally aligned with their race, such as Henry, Benzema, Ozil, Khedira, Abidal, Sturridge, Sterling, Zaha etc,

Within the idiotic scope of a racial lens, Argentina and Brazil should not have national teams, given that most footballers are of European origin (in South America)

A more outrageous but valid exaggeration of that argument would be that the only national football team of existence should be that of Ethiopia, given the origin of humanity from the Great African Rift Valley. :lol:

But is the initial premise of the argument valid? Ofc not.

However, in my eyes the Diego Costa incident is isolated tbh

Imo in light of his recent performances, he opted to change his nationality in the hopes that Spain has a better chance at winning the World Cup

I don’t think he feels ESPECIALLY aligned with either Brazil or Spain, GIVEN that he has a few senior Brazil caps to his name

Diego Costa doesn't really feel Spanish though... He said that he hasn't given up on being Brazilian, that his Family lives in Brazil and that when he retires he'll return to Brazil..... So really Diego Costa is not a good example for anything. He's just playing for Spain because he thinks thats best for his career.

Spot on, Black Jesus.

Hopefully this post has ENDED this discussion, and provided some insight into the geographical mechanics of footballers declaring nationality dissimilar to their race.

And remember, we are all “brothers of the world,” and this is Internazionale :proud:
 
Last edited:

wera

might be Deadpool
La Grande Inter
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
34,152
Likes
13,419
Favorite Player
Bea Arthur
10 years of FIF
Most Diverse Poster
Somehow, I think the last points have already been discussed and are the most problematic. Shaqiri is viewed in Pimpin's eyes as a traitor, because he chose the Swiss NT (which is better for his career). I'm sure Pimpin is going to keep his views on the matter no matter what we say. He was only born in Yugoslavia, next year his family fled to Switzerland and it's obvious to me that whichever NT he would choose to play for would make sense.

Just mentioning this example, because it's the first in the long list of arguments about Nationalized players. I understand Pimpin, but he takes it too seriously. Not every person feels the same about his country and origin. Sometimes you have to put yourself in their shoes.
 

pencilpal

Capitano
Capitano
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
2,104
Likes
0
Favorite Player
Javier Zanetti
Somehow, I think the last points have already been discussed and are the most problematic. Shaqiri is viewed in Pimpin's eyes as a traitor, because he chose the Swiss NT (which is better for his career). I'm sure Pimpin is going to keep his views on the matter no matter what we say. He was only born in Yugoslavia, next year his family fled to Switzerland and it's obvious to me that whichever NT he would choose to play for would make sense.

Just mentioning this example, because it's the first in the long list of arguments about Nationalized players. I understand Pimpin, but he takes it too seriously. Not every person feels the same about his country and origin. Sometimes you have to put yourself in their shoes.

I would understand if Shaqiri feels more Swiss than Albanian

However, given further research, it seems he is proud of his racial roots in Kosovo and Albania, but that doesn't necessarily imply ethnic association

If he speaks Albanian or is Islamic, then it would be obvious, but I don't see any record of him maintaining ETHNO-CULTURAL roots

But if he is in fact playing for Switzerland as a career choice, Pimpin should remember that every individual has a right to autonomy; therefore Shaqiri has the right to treat the concept of nationality with an arbitrary amount of respect
 
Top