CL coefficients and why Serie A clubs struggle in Europa League

[Luka]

Well, the CL seets is a good stats to base our opinions on, because it's not just that it involves like 7 teams every year, but also that it's based on more than 1 year, 5 to be exact.

However, the problem with bringing this 4th CL spot, is that Germany pretty much won it through UEFA cup. If we look through last 5 years and CL knockout stage, there has hardly been anyone from Germany there. Besides Bayern, I think only once there was a team in knockout stage (I think Werder a few years ago) ? I might be wrong here.

But I'm pretty sure I'm right, that if we take all the italian teams playing in CL knockout stage in last 5 years, and all german teams, Italy will easily win in this "competition".

Now going to my original point. Since the time UEFA games are counted as much as CL games, Germany started to gain points, and I'm not taking anything from them, but it is a known fact, that italian teams just don't care about UEFA cup. Couple years back, like 10 or so, teams cared more about Serie A games, than UEFA Cup games, and back then when UEFA games were counted differently to CL games, Italy still was coming on top. But ever since UEFA changed the rules, the germany started to gain more points, because german teams don't lay off UEFA Cup games.

That is the reason, that we shouldn't bring up those stats. If Italian teams indeed shown, that they DO care about this cup, we might bring this as some valid point after couple of years, but I don't think we're at this point yet, if we'll ever be. I do even remember, italian officials demanding the clubs to pay more attention to UEFA cup games.

 

[Efrain21C]

:howler:

Shows how much he knows about German football

Serie A atm is Inter + 19 average and shit team though.

Italy will lose their 4th CL spot next season, bank on that.

I can trust teams like Sampdoria or Roma to do the job and keep the 4th spot, while I can't see neither Jube or Milan doing the same thing...

It will all depend on the Europa League

 

[Azzkikr]

Had Hamburg beat fulham or had we lost the CL final, then we would have lost 4th spot.

Given the quality of the 3 other Italian CL teams its hard to them getting more points than the Germans will in the europa league.

Currently Milan, Roma, samp, palermo, Napoli and juve are not stronger than Schalke, Werder, Leverkusen, dortmund and stuttgart. Even though the germans will have one less team i still see them keeping up the trend and gaining more point and this season they wont have to gain alot to overtake us, its pretty much inevitable.

 

[Luka]

Given the quality of the 3 other Italian CL teams its hard to them getting more points than the Germans will in the europa league.

True, but again... this is because our teams don't take UEFA seriously. If they did (since the beginning as did Germany, or at least for past 5 years) we would have nothing to talk about today.

Currently Milan, Roma, samp, palermo, Napoli and juve are not stronger than Schalke, Werder, Leverkusen, dortmund and stuttgart.

I disagree. German teams (some) seems to have better financial situation, but as for quality, I rate our league still higher up.

 

[Azzkikr]

Its bullshit that the 'Italian teams dont take UEFA cup seriously' tbh, its an excuse because the italian teams in the UEFA cup are now shadows of what they were in the 90's in the times of the '7 sisters' and all that shit when Serie A was by far the strongest league on the planet.

Ofcourse they take it seriously, they have too, because Italian teams have terrible financial situations they need every penny they can get.

Italy had 7 UEFA cup winners (2 parma, 2 juve and 3 inter and Napoli right before too) in the 90's and was the best league in the world, not because the best Italian teams where better than the best english, german or spanish, but because the league had so many more top teams compared to the other leagues, this is NOT the case anymore. Back then the top 10 Italian teams had alot more quality than the top 10 of england, germany and spain, however thats not the case anymore and the results show especially in the UEFA/europe league because the quality outside the top 3-4 simply isnt there anymore.

Not 'taking it serious' is something that was invented by the italian media in the first years when serie a startet to decay and they got no results in the UEFA, its an arrogant excuse thats just silly. Italian teams cant afford to be arrogant anymore and they have tried for the last few years, but the quality isnt there to compete.

Another reason is the poor state of the league, teams being inconsistent. Only a few years italy had teams like Livorno and Parma in the UEFA cup, obviously teams like that isnt going to do anything. A quarter final from Udinese and a semi from Fiorentina (losing to freaking rangers...) is the best Serie A has been able to do here.

As the league and economy gets back in shape we should eventually get that 4th spot back, but its surely lost next season.

 

[Luka]

You know how many english teams won UEFA Cup since 2000 year ? 1, in 2001 through Liverpool. They couldn't win it, even in their golden era, when theoreticly their teams should be favourites to win it. They played 4 times in the final, and only Liverpool could win it in 2001.

UEFA league is just not that attractive, especialy since CL got so much money in it. Maybe it is the magnetism thing, and it's just not as big thing for the english/spanish/italian leagues, that were considered best, and who always gone for the CL win, and had the most teams playing there in hope for a win, while when russian team wins it, they play for it like it was fucking world cup, you know what I mean ?

I heard once, that you can even pay to play in EUFA cup, and not actually get any moeny through it in the end, unless you reach a very last stages of the cup.

Anyways, that's my stance, and my last word for it. I don't want to look into stats, and spent more time on that. I do agree that italian teams might look more favourably to it in recent years, but to me they still don't play this cup with a big determination to win it.

 

[Azzkikr]

Its irrelevant if its attractive to the top 3-4 in the big leagues, these are the CL teams.

UEFA cup is attractive for the teams outside the CL positions, its their chance to play in europe and get some extra income. UEFA cup matters plenty to these teams, and Italian teams in these positions dont do as well as their counterparts in the other leagues here anymore, because the quality isnt there.

Its ridiculous to say that the Italian teams doesnt play with the same interest in the UEFA cup as in other league tbh.

 

[CafeCordoba]

CL coefficients and why serie a clubs struggle in europa league

Yeah, it's pretty funny from "lesser" Italian teams' point of view that why would they not take Uefa Cup seriously? Why are they putting all the effort to Serie A? I mean, they put effort to Serie A to get where? To win the Scudetto? GTFO, not a chance. Well, what comes after that? Positions which allows them to take part in Euro competitions. So it's like a paradox. They try to get to Euro competition spots, which means they have to put effort to Serie A and put less effort to Euro competition which they are taking part atm because they have busy in the championship trying to get to position which allows them to take part in Euro competitions.

Okay, there is money issue with Serie A (certain money for certain position in the table) but it couldn't have been significant earlier since there's been own TV-deals for big teams and then common deal for the rest of the league.

 

[Luka]

Let me clarify one thing:

- money issues for the lesser teams (again, from what I've read/heard UEFA cup is not at all profitable until some later stages of the cup)
- motivation issues for the better teams that HAD to play UEFA cup

 

[Azzkikr]

If that was the case, why would other leagues give a damn about the UEFA cup? Why would only the italian league, which is the one in the worst financial state, do this? It makes no sense.

Its nonsense, the prize money is very low compared to the CL, but if anyone would want every last penny it would be the Italian midtable teams, since they are far poorer than most of their counterparts. How is it not profitable? Its not like the clubs can lose money on it and you DO get money in all stages of it. They get ticket fee's as well. although not alot bothers to see these pathetic Serie A teams anyways, regardless if the tickets only cost a bag of pasta.

Its a myth that mid/upper-table Italian teams do poorly in the UEFA cup because they dont rate it, its because they suck nothing else. As i already pointed out, Italian teams used to dominate the UEFA cup, but suddenly when the league has declined ALOT since the 90's they dont dominate anything anymore, then its the typical italian bullshit arrogance saying 'its because they dont care, not because they suck'. Ofcourse its because they suck, its the result of the poor financial state of the league and decline its been in for many years now.

 

[brehme1989]

If that was the case, why would other leagues give a damn about the UEFA cup? Why would only the italian league, which is the one in the worst financial state, do this? It makes no sense.

Its nonsense, the prize money is very low compared to the CL, but if anyone would want every last penny it would be the Italian midtable teams, since they are far poorer than most of their counterparts. How is it not profitable? Its not like the clubs can lose money on it and you DO get money in all stages of it. They get ticket fee's as well. although not alot bothers to see these pathetic Serie A teams anyways, regardless if the tickets only cost a bag of pasta.

Its a myth that mid/upper-table Italian teams do poorly in the UEFA cup because they dont rate it, its because they suck nothing else. As i already pointed out, Italian teams used to dominate the UEFA cup, but suddenly when the league has declined ALOT since the 90's they dont dominate anything anymore, then its the typical italian bullshit arrogance saying 'its because they dont care, not because they suck'. Ofcourse its because they suck, its the result of the poor financial state of the league and decline its been in for many years now.

Parma reached the UEFA Cup semis with their reserves while they were battling relegation in Italy....

 

[Stefan]

CL coefficients and why serie a clubs struggle in europa league

Creating a thread and moving other posts here.

 

[Efrain21C]

but the bad thing is that the sequence almost doesn't make sense lol

 

[skeet]

Yeah, it's pretty funny from "lesser" Italian teams' point of view that why would they not take Uefa Cup seriously? Why are they putting all the effort to Serie A? I mean, they put effort to Serie A to get where? To win the Scudetto? GTFO, not a chance. Well, what comes after that? Positions which allows them to take part in Euro competitions. So it's like a paradox. They try to get to Euro competition spots, which means they have to put effort to Serie A and put less effort to Euro competition which they are taking part atm because they have busy in the championship trying to get to position which allows them to take part in Euro competitions.

Okay, there is money issue with Serie A (certain money for certain position in the table) but it couldn't have been significant earlier since there's been own TV-deals for big teams and then common deal for the rest of the league.

thats a pretty one dimensional way of looking at it, look at the 3 italian teams in the EL last season, lazio is an exception since they had a spectacular nosedive in terms of results, while roma finished top of their group which contained fulham, but that was when they weren't in contention for the scudetto, they stopped giving a shit when they went unbeaten for 14 straight serie a matches, juventus were obviously still clinging to their scudetto hopes and genoa were fighting for a CL spot

it's the same thing with this year's representatives, juventus will put all of their eggs in the scudetto basket, and palermo and napoli will want to break into the top four because that is a much more realistic target than winning the europa league and because serie a standings carry much more prestige in italy than any continental competition other than the CL

 

[Stefan]

To be fair by the time juve faced fullham in the el their scudetto hopes were long gone and their 4th cl spot chase was a very very long shot.

 

[William]

To be fair by the time juve faced fullham in the el their scudetto hopes were long gone and their 4th cl spot chase was a very very long shot.

That was a good night
Always beautiful to see jube humiliated

 

[skeet]

To be fair by the time juve faced fullham in the el their scudetto hopes were long gone and their 4th cl spot chase was a very very long shot.

that doesn't mean that they cared about the EL, in the return leg the entire team was just waiting for the 90 minutes to finish and couldn't care less about the result

and it was friggin fulham for god's sake, juve would have won if they were giving 70%

 

[nbootu]

That was a good night
Always beautiful to see jube humiliated

I agree, but in this case I don't care if it's jube or whoever!
It's about the Serie A (as an italian i care about that) and the prestige etc.
The value of the Scudetto goes down with the prestige of the league!
It makes me just angry when the "Big" Clubs don't care about the CL spots when playing in EL!
Hope jube gets 4. and loose the CL Quali just to their very own ignorance!

 

[vitomins]

According to Channel4, we have lost our place and there is no way to recover it in time:

http://football-italia.net/feb25k.html


So, the 2011-12 Serie A will grant the following European spots:

1: 2012–13 UEFA Champions League Group stage
2: 2012–13 UEFA Champions League Group stage
3: 2012–13 UEFA Champions League Play-off round
4: 2012–13 UEFA Europa League Play-off round
5: 2012–13 UEFA Europa League Third qualifying round

 

[Besnik]

Well deserved!