Copa America 2021 Brazil

Irequis

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Otamendi might make brainfarts here and there, but he is the boss when he only has to defend the box.
 

nelsonrivas2011

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Our fullbacks are dogshit
Praying for Caio Henrique, Vanderson and Calegari's success
They and Arana should be our starting fullbacks.
 

Universe

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Bluenine

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Last year I had said that we should buy Martinez as a long term replacement for Handanovic, some idiots here said he was shite. Now he is the best GK of Copa America and probably way beyond our budget. What a great year he has had for Aston Villa and Argentina.
 

NimAraya

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Finally! VAMOS ARGENTINA CARAJO!!

De Paul was amazing tonight.
 

wera

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Finally! VAMOS ARGENTINA CARAJO!!

De Paul was amazing tonight.
Yeah I just came to write that. De Paul MOTM something I never expected to say, ever.

On the other side Richarlison was the best player in offence, Neymar was getting hacked and others were shitting their pants.
 

Fapuccino

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That goal pretty much sums up why Messi won't be considered the greatest player. At his peak he was unstoppable with Barca, but the great players have to shine in all contexts, club and country.

Our Ronnie is still imo the best player ever.
 

CafeCordoba

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That goal pretty much sums up why Messi won't be considered the greatest player. At his peak he was unstoppable with Barca, but the great players have to shine in all contexts, club and country.

Our Ronnie is still imo the best player ever.

The thing is he is considered the greatest player. :D
 

Glass box

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Now that Messi won this trophy, surely the silly debate is put to bed.

It's not
 

Fapuccino

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The thing is he is considered the greatest player. :D

Ronnie's resume wasn't long enough due to injuries for that, but I'm more talking about proving yourself in different contexts. He scored 2 WC goals in his a final, won 2 World Cups and UEFA Cup (back when it meant something).

Ronnie was excellent in club and country. Messi has never been excellent for Argentina. At best he was "good".
 

NimAraya

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Ronnie's resume wasn't long enough due to injuries for that, but I'm more talking about proving yourself in different contexts. He scored 2 WC goals in his a final, won 2 World Cups and UEFA Cup (back when it meant something).

Ronnie was excellent in club and country. Messi has never been excellent for Argentina. At best he was "good".
Messi has been excellent for Argentina on numerous occasions, just none of them has been in a final. The media love to use his less significant stats with Argentina (compare to his Barca stats) to make such conclusions that he's not better than this or that player. He doesnt make stats by just scoring tap ins and penalties, but his impact on his team's goals is huge.

Argentina as a whole nation was an underachiever. They've been like that for 28 years. We can't use this case against Messi. They have lost 7 finals since that Copa America win in 1993, and got knocked out pretty early when entering competitions as a favorite. Look at the list of all their star players in 90s and 2000s. All of those players were the stars of their clubs and had a much better club career than they did with Argentina. Almost all of them couldn't make the same impact for Argentina, and failed to reach even the semi final of WCs ; A spell which was broken by the 2014 team.

If Argentina had a better finisher than Higuain we didnt need to wait till now to win a title. He has missed 3 clear chances in 3 consecutive finals. You cant really be this wasteful in a final. Messi was not at his best in the finals either, but it's not his fault that his CF can't finish. He missed a chance in the WC final as well, but his chance wasnt as easy to score as the ones Higuain and Palacio missed.
 

brehme1989

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His stats look great for Barcelona but "human" for Argentina exactly because football has shifted now and top players for top teams enjoy luxuries that weren't possible in the past.

The difference in level between Argentina and Colombia or Argentina and Peru or Argentina and Venezuela is the same as it was 20 and 50 and 80 years ago.
The difference between Barcelona and the 10th or 15th or 20th team of the table has dramatically changed in favor of Barcelona in just 15-20 years and the gap widened more in the last 12 years than it did in the first 20 years of proper professional football.
The same applies with European encounters.
 
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