England National team

vitomins · Jun 25, 2012

ADRossi said:
Argentina has 2 WCs. That's 2 more than every country except 7.

Top 4 Finishes
Germany: 12
Brazil: 10
Italy: 8
Argentina: 4

Germany/Brazil/Italy are on another level than Argentina when it comes to NT history.

monster09 · Jun 25, 2012

nerazzurri4life said:
That's not how England played this Euro's. How many crosses into the air in their 4 games? Get real. The one time they hit a quality cross, carrol scored a beastly header. After that, crosses were few and far in between. Ashley young wasn't crossing at all. Milner? Joke of a player. They played deep defense but when they had the ball, they tried to do patterned play and combinations. Only in the late 2nd half of the last 2 games did they try long balls to carrol.

They couldn't cross as they couldn't get out of their own half and when they did it was by England of old to lump it to forward and expect him to hold on to the ball. They didn't try any fancy stuffs as they were only able to hold the ball in their own half. It was just like England of old and more shittier version. Atleast England of old was able to bring the ball from defense but this team was complete shit and void of any ideas.

And FYI all of England's goals bar one came from crosses.

Lescott against France, Gerrard Set piece
Carroll against Sweden, Gerrard cross
Walcott goal, only goal scored without cross.
Welbeck winner, Cross by Walcott
Rooney goal, Gerrard cross.

Edit: Forgot to add, England's best chances against Italy came from crosses. Didn't realize England were able to cross the ball at all, now looking back at goals and chances it was all from crosses.

As for your 2nd comment, it would be best to research English FA grassroots coaching material and philosophy. I am not talking about what happens at senior club level. I am talking about the national infrastructure and what they've emphasized for decades. .

Fair enough, I was talking about senior team and re research, thank you I have done my bit. Grassroot changes are approved only month or 2 back. Still this part is unnecessary as I thought it was about senior team.

ADRossi · Jun 25, 2012

crzdcolombian said:
France has 1, Spain has 1. Thats great but out of every country in the world even if they send a sub 15 girls team I'd still put all my money on those Germany, Italy, or Brazil getting to a final. I like Argentina way better than Brazil but doesn't change the fact that brazil is 10x more likely to get to a final. Not to say that the refs don't help haha turkey got so robbed in 02 vs Brazil, Austrilla/US getting openingly screwed against Italy in 06, Spain scoring 15 goals against Korea and non counting in 02

Some teams just are awesome in big tournies and to me those are the big 3

That's fine, but your claim that Argentina do terrible on the big stage is ridiculous

n4l · Jun 25, 2012

monster09 said:
They couldn't cross as they couldn't get out of their own half and when they did it was by England of old to lump it to forward and expect him to hold on to the ball. They didn't try any fancy stuffs as they were only able to hold the ball in their own half. It was just like England of old and more shittier version. Atleast England of old was able to bring the ball from defense but this team was complete shit and void of any ideas.

And FYI all of England's goals bar one came from crosses.

Lescott against France, Gerrard Set piece
Carroll against Sweden, Gerrard cross
Walcott goal, only goal scored without cross.
Welbeck winner, Cross by Walcott
Rooney goal, Gerrard cross.

Edit: Forgot to add, England's best chances against Italy came from crosses. Didn't realize England were able to cross the ball at all, now looking back at goals and chances it was all from crosses.

You're missing the point. Gerrard (CM) is responsible for 2 crosses of 3 goals scored by crosses (I am not including a set piece). A CM. That's the point. It means their play and strategy was not directly targeted to go cross the ball or else young/cole/milner/johnson would have much more crosses and more responsible for the attacking plays.

monster09 said:
Fair enough, I was talking about senior team and re research, thank you I have done my bit. Grassroot changes are approved only month or 2 back. Still this part is unnecessary as I thought it was about senior team.

Grassroots approved only month or 2 ago? What are you talking about? I said that the English FA has been modifying their programs since the 70s. And obviously what they are training at the grassroots level has an impact on their senior team.

monster09 · Jun 25, 2012

nerazzurri4life said:
You're missing the point. Gerrard (CM) is responsible for 2 crosses of 3 goals scored by crosses (I am not including a set piece). A CM. That's the point. It means their play and strategy was not directly targeted to go cross the ball or else young/cole/milner/johnson would have much more crosses and more responsible for the attacking plays.

That had more to do with Shit wingers than modifying the game plan. Milner was snail paced and Young was atrocious (He played many crosses against Ukraine though).

Grassroots approved only month or 2 ago? What are you talking about? I said that the English FA has been modifying their programs since the 70s. And obviously what they are training at the grassroots level has an impact on their senior team.

I dont know how much they followed or tried to change back in 70s, but the youth development section was so 70s and 80s, only on May 2012 FA decided to change the coaching methods. (I dont know before that when was the last time they changed the methods).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...te-in-favour-of-reforming-youth-football.html

Again still this part is redundant as this is something to do with youth football coaching and its for future. Will see how much impact it will have, but to write it off before even they started is bit ridiculous. After all after decades they have realised the correct direction to move, technical ability rather than physical one.

---------- Post added at 00:59 ---------- Previous post was at 00:50 ----------

29 Ashley Young and James Milner put in 29 crosses in the four games. Only three reached an England team-mate

n4l · Jun 25, 2012

monster09 said:
That had more to do with Shit wingers than modifying the game plan. Milner was snail paced and Young was atrocious (He played many crosses against Ukraine though).

So in all of England, they have no decent wingers who can cross? The wingers selected reflect the game plan that was to be implemented, which was not a game based primarily on crossing the ball.

monster09 said:
I dont know how much they followed or tried to change back in 70s, but the youth development section was so 70s and 80s, only on May 29th 2012 FA decided to change the coaching methods. (I dont know before that when was the last time they changed the methods).

Again still this part is redundant as this is something to do with youth football coaching and its for future. Will see how much impact it will have, but to write it off before even they started is bit ridiculous. After all after decades they have realised the correct direction to move, technical ability rather than physical one.

You're not understanding so I'm going to try to be clearer. Since the 70s, the FA modified their program to be much more technical oriented. They've copied, pretty hardcore as well, training methods primarily from Brazil & the dutch. First it was heavily on the foot skills/ball manipulation and dribble moves and execution. Then they added dutch passing components. So, in 30+ years of TRYING TO BE TECHNICAL, they are STILL NOT TECHNICAL. What they've modified to recently is just another iteration, it is not a new direction.

monster09 · Jun 25, 2012

nerazzurri4life said:
So in all of England, they have no decent wingers who can cross? The wingers selected reflect the game plan that was to be implemented, which was not a game based primarily on crossing the ball.

They have, but they couldn't. Reason? They were camped in their own half for most of the game and when they did get into the crossing positions they did, i posted the stat for that. 29 crosses in 4 games by 2 wingers only (It doesn't include Walcott, Ox, Cole, Johnson's crosses). So when they got the chances they did, but like the stat says they failed miserably.

All the stat shows England did try to cross the ball rather than fancy stuffs. If you meant England playing on quick counter releasing Winger and then winger crossing the ball, then No. Because it was not possible with the midfielders (CMs) available. Gerrard tried to but couldn't execute and Parker was just Parker.

You're not understanding so I'm going to try to be clearer. Since the 70s, the FA modified their program to be much more technical oriented. They've copied, pretty hardcore as well, training methods primarily from Brazil & the dutch. First it was heavily on the foot skills/ball manipulation and dribble moves and execution. Then they added dutch passing components. So, in 30+ years of TRYING TO BE TECHNICAL, they are STILL NOT TECHNICAL. What they've modified to recently is just another iteration, it is not a new direction.

I have already told you that I dont know when was the last time they tried to change, I haven't heard of anything of that sort. If they have tried from 30 years like you said, then fair enough. I was not aware of this.

YNWALFC · Jul 27, 2012

nerazzurri4life said:
So in all of England, they have no decent wingers who can cross? The wingers selected reflect the game plan that was to be implemented, which was not a game based primarily on crossing the ball.

You're not understanding so I'm going to try to be clearer. Since the 70s, the FA modified their program to be much more technical oriented. They've copied, pretty hardcore as well, training methods primarily from Brazil & the dutch. First it was heavily on the foot skills/ball manipulation and dribble moves and execution. Then they added dutch passing components. So, in 30+ years of TRYING TO BE TECHNICAL, they are STILL NOT TECHNICAL. What they've modified to recently is just another iteration, it is not a new direction.

From a personal point of view "grassroots football" has always been about direct/physical football. bigger, faster, stronger and thats about it.
technical ability and tactics are not in the DNA of the Ingurlish FA.
Most youth teams are run by people who are willing (which is a nice thing) but not really qualified and ultimately it comes down to a cronic shortage of qualified coaches.
Unfortunately that down to the FA, which has become just another organisation taking money from the game.

The recent changes they claim to be making were looked at in the early 60s but i reckon the heroes of 66 convinced them that the ingurlish way was the right way.

Y&h · Feb 6, 2013

Wasn't it awkward when Brazil celebrated Ronaldinho's 100 cap, and England decided to gift Gerrard with his 'cap' but ignored Cole's 100 game... who was in tears I may add...

monster09 · Feb 7, 2013

There was much change in England's tactics it was so refreshing to see Wilshere and Cleverley playing short passes and making off the ball runs with Gerrard holding the midfield together. They were very comfortable in possession. It was the best England played in some years (first 45 mins), pressed high up the pitch and decided to play passing game than just lumping the ball to target man.

Once Cleverley was off in the second half, England couldn't string 2 passes as Wilshere was the only one who made runs and pressed high up with Gerrarrd and Lampard not able to.

Wilshere is really a special talent, he has everything to become world class midfielder. Can dribble, pass, shoot and create. If somehow we sign him then it will be awesome :troll:

Fapuccino · Apr 11, 2013

http://www.thefa.com/News/2013/apr/hodgson-glt-soccerex-110413.aspx

Hodgson is pushing for goal line technology in England, Blatter wants it too. But not Platini. :palm: