English Premier League 2019/2020

phonk

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Liverpool-Wolverhampton is losing quality by the minute, so many misplaced passes.

Btw what happened to this Pepe fella that Arsenal paid 80m for? Can't get a start over Reiss Nelson :lol:

And Liverpool score as I was typing this post. Great.

Phenomenal long ball by Van Dyke.
 

Wobblz

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Same Pepe that made some members here ejaculate in the summer? He turned out to be an expensive turd so far. Had two free-kick screamers in the EL for Arsenal, if I recall correctly. That's all - 40M a piece.

Frankly, I'm surprised by him. A very physical dude with nimble footing, he should be having at least a semi-decent season over at the EPL...
 

phonk

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Wolverhampton got one back right after conceding but the goal was overturned by VAR because of a very close offside. Liverpool got lucky there.

- - - Updated - - -

This game is boring af but I refuse to turn it off prematurely because what usually happens after I stop watching is that goals are scored. That means this game is bound to end 1-0
 

crzdcolombian

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Watching Arsenal play haha this is worse than the 8 year olds I use to coach

My god did we dodge a huge bullet not getting Ozil on loan
 

Hasan

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After 1-1 with Cristal Palace it’s visible that Arsenal players are happy, relaxed, content ... like the won 3-0 and fighting for title.
 

Pajo

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How the fuck did Lo Celso missed that?
 

Kev9Inter

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From Opta

Liverpool have won 61 points in the Premier League in 2019-20 - the most any side has ever registered after 21 games in a single season across Europe's big five leagues (assuming 3pts/win).
 

jamsieboy86

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For years every EPL fan and his dog have been saying how it's the best league in the world. Last season in fairness they had the best season in Europe that any league has ever had, having the 4 finalists in the 2 European competitions.

I was browsing through twitter earlier and now the majority of EPL fans, who don't support Liverpool, are saying the league is weak. Their hatred of Liverpool seems to trump their love of the EPL.

The EPL has the European & World Champions, the Europa League Champions and the reigning double English Champions with the 2 highest points tallies in EPL history. Yet most fans are claiming it's weak to detract from the greatness of this current Liverpool team.

The hatred of Liverpool is on a different scale to anything I've seen in the EPL. I find it both amusing and baffling. People eulogised over Chelsea & City teams that were dominant, when their success had been artificially created due to billionaire owners. Liverpool have created success the right way and people can't seem to handle it.

Anyone got any thoughts on why so many people are trying to detract from just how good this Liverpool team is?
 

brehme1989

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For years every EPL fan and his dog have been saying how it's the best league in the world. Last season in fairness they had the best season in Europe that any league has ever had, having the 4 finalists in the 2 European competitions.

Was it really? Sure, it's impressive for the current era, but the best ever was back in the 90s with Italian clubs. Luck played its role for the 2019 one as you will see below compared to the 2014 Spanish domination possibility.

1990: Milan CL winner, Sampdoria CWC winner, Juventus UC winner, Fiorentina UC finalist.

The only thing missing was poor Inter from the European Cup final in 1990 because we were too busy fucking up against Malmo, but either way, we'd face Milan in the quarter finals as the draw was set up so it was impossible to have a final between teams from two countries until the late 90s when the 32 team Group stage was around.

We also had
1993: Milan CL finalist, Parma CWC winner, Juventus UC winner.
1994: Milan CL winner, Parma CWC finalist, Inter UC winner

And in 1989: Milan CL winner, Sampdoria CWC finalist, Napoli UC winner

It was much harder back then to meet a team from the same nation in the tournament as there were so few entrants, let alone the final. And when the English clubs were dominating the European Cup, the rest of the tournaments weren't so much.

The two 2019 finals are historic for English football and obviously for Europe as well, but it's not the best season ever that any league had. It's the best result we've seen in the last 12 years where we have this format, but that's a very short time to claim "best ever".

In 2014 we had Real Madrid vs Atletico Madrid in the CL final. In the EL we had Sevilla. There were only two other Spanish teams there. They both could have reached the final. What happened? Real Betis was drawn with Sevilla in the round of 16. And lost. Then Sevilla beat Valencia in the semis. And thus, no other Spanish teams remained. Had Valencia played against Benfica or Juventus, we could have also had two Spanish teams in the final. In the same manner, had Arsenal faced Chelsea in the semis you wouldn't be hearing people say these things.
 

jamsieboy86

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Was it really? Sure, it's impressive for the current era, but the best ever was back in the 90s with Italian clubs. Luck played its role for the 2019 one as you will see below compared to the 2014 Spanish domination possibility.

I never said it was the best league. I think you missed the point of my post tbh or maybe I didn't explain it correctly.

EPL fans have said for years it was the best league, not my opinion. Last year was the only year they had any merit in saying that. For years the narrative from them has always been that it was the best, but now because Liverpool are top these same fans are claiming it is weak.

My point was that now that the league is at it's actual strongest is when they choose to claim that it is weak just to deflect from Liverpool's brilliance.

I live in a country where 95% or more of soccer fans are EPL fans. We get British newspapers and British TV channels too, the narrative has always been that it is the best, that's not my opinion of whether or not that is right, it's just a fact of what EPL fans have always said. I'm including journalists and tv pundits as EPL fans in this.

These same fans praised Chelsea and City when oil money brought them success, but now Liverpool are earning success in their own right they are throwing their toys out of the pram and claiming the league is weak.

My post was not to discuss the merits of whether or not the EPL was the best. It was to ask why these people who believe the EPL to be the best are now saying it is weak? What is it about Liverpool that triggers the average EPL fan so much that they go against the one mantra they have defended so passionately for the last 20 years?
 

brehme1989

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I didn't miss the point, I just isolated that part. I don't really care about intra-PL politics.

People don't like Liverpool, we know that. Tell them to talk about another league and the PL über alles rhetoric is still there.
 

jamsieboy86

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I didn't miss the point, I just isolated that part. I don't really care about intra-PL politics.

Lol, but that part was not part of my point, that was the premise for my argument.

If you don't care about intra-PL politics then maybe don't respond to a post discussing them next time.
 

brehme1989

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I did answer you.

There's no discussion to be made. People don't like Liverpool. They will diss them. It's not that hard. It happened when Liverpool was winning in Europe but failed in England.

The very same people would defend PL if the argument was different and would still hype Liverpool up to non-Liverpool fans in order to maintain the rhetoric that PL is allegedly the best.

Also, if you didn't want replies on another note, just don't make such remarks that will be answered to.
 

jamsieboy86

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I did answer you.

There's no discussion to be made. People don't like Liverpool. They will diss them. It's not that hard. It happened when Liverpool was winning in Europe but failed in England.

The very same people would defend PL if the argument was different and would still hype Liverpool up to non-Liverpool fans in order to maintain the rhetoric that PL is allegedly the best.

Also, if you didn't want replies on another note, just don't make such remarks that will be answered to.

You clearly knew that it was largely held view by EPL fans, your uber alles comment proves that. Of course people are free to respond to any part of a post that they want to.

Your initial response never answered me, you just went on to compare the leagues, which is fine you're entitled to do so, that's your prerogative if you so wish.

If you think there is no further discussion that is also fine, don't discuss it then. But making a sweeping statement that there is no discussion to be made is very arrogant and dismissive of other people who might want to discuss it further.

I was looking for a more in depth discussion on the topic as to why. You seem intent on flexing intellectual superiority, acting as if you are the lone authority on what merits discussion.
 

.h.

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It's not worth it bro trust me. FWIW he has missed the point entirely.
 

brehme1989

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You clearly knew that it was largely held view by EPL fans, your uber alles comment proves that. Of course people are free to respond to any part of a post that they want to.

Your initial response never answered me, you just went on to compare the leagues, which is fine you're entitled to do so, that's your prerogative if you so wish.

If you think there is no further discussion that is also fine, don't discuss it then. But making a sweeping statement that there is no discussion to be made is very arrogant and dismissive of other people who might want to discuss it further.

I was looking for a more in depth discussion on the topic as to why. You seem intent on flexing intellectual superiority, acting as if you are the lone authority on what merits discussion.

Okay, let's discuss further.

Who likes Liverpool?

Liverpool fans and overseas people who don't give a flying fuck about English football but hold them in high regard. Except Juventus.

Who likes Man United? Man Utd fans. Just them.

Who likes Chelsea? Chelsea fans. And people who liked a few of their teams because they were cute (late 90s) or because they were relevant and broke the Arsenal-Man Utd duo in England, or because of Mourinho or whatever other reason.

Who likes Manchester City? Mostly no one in particular outside of their own fans, with the latest (10 years) exception being those who have a strong dislike for Man Utd.

Who hates Liverpool? Everyone in England who does not support Liverpool. And fans of their rivals from everywhere else.

Who hates Chelsea? Tottenham fans. And some Arsenal fans more recently (~15 years).

Who hates Manchester City? Man United fans within England mostly. Most overseas Man United fans never really cared about this team until the last 10 years and in reality, they're not even as fierce a rival for the average foreigner Joe than Wenger's Arsenal was. The reason is because Man United's fortunes started to turn away after a couple of years within this rivalry and they never witnessed them as a competitive rival.

Who hates Man United? Everyone in the world who doesn't support Man Utd.

Now if you think I'm being arrogant when you, a declared Liverpool fan, suggests that it doesn't make sense that there's a negative reaction to Liverpool winning as opposed to Man City or Chelsea or even freaking Leicester winning if I may add, is sacrilege to your own football club. These guys are nobodies. In fact, you should be proud that people are dissing you now. You are defending European champions and have completely ridiculed domestic competiion, that's everything you need to know and say.

So I'm sorry but this is the fanbase of a club that chants "fuck off Chelsea FC you ain't got no history" or that doesn't even care that Man City is part of Manchester, a very historic and important cross-town rivalry in England and they've only viewed Man Utd as their main rivals. Which is quite weird since between almost 40 championships won they barely competed for one with eachother like 3 times.

Also, since your next question might be why was the PL considered so great by the same people when Man Utd was winning, it's exactly because as I say all the time, Man Utd is mostly a marketing company (and a corporation that created "modern football" since Glazer took over, with Arsenal following suit). Man Utd must be the biggest and best football brand in the world so we have to claim that they play in the best league in the world. Not sure how old you are or when you started paying attention, but Man Utd being "the most popular team" and the PL being "the most important/entertaining/amazing or greatest or best league in the world" has been going on since 1997 when the then overweight Eric Cantona who had given up on competitive football decided to retire officially and they run out of selling points. It was also part of the centenary anniversary of top flight football in England, so it just took off from there and Man Utd took complete advantage of this and made themselves more relevant than they should have been considered due to recent domestic success. And that Treble obviously took things to the next level. It's like today, where as you say they claim to be the best season ever in Europe and what not. They do have a claim, and that's what makes them even more annoying. We'll be hearing about that 2019-20 season for decades to come unless it starts becoming a trend which will a) vindicate them and b) make them even more annoying.

It's like England NT. They suck, everyone knows it, even in 2018 it was obvious that they weren't really that good, but with some luck and good draws, they managed to carry on until the semi finals. And now we'll be hearing about how they are Euro 2020 favorites and World Cup 2022 favorites. Same way World Cup 1990 made them Euro92 favorites (didn't win a game) or World Cup 1994 (didn't even qualify). Then Euro96, they host, reach the semis and ever since we've been hearing about how they're going to win the next one until like 2012 when they realized that they suck. So now 2018 reignited this and we'll be hearing it for years. This is what they do. England NT and Man Utd are pretty much getting the same treatment. Three options: A) You're a fan and you think that this is the best and most important team in the world, B) You're not really a fan but you like football in that neighborhood (ie PL for Man Utd reference and British for England NT reference) and you also claim that they are great despite not supporting them [unless you support a direct rival, see option C] and C) you just hate their guts and find them overrated.

But I say it once more, if you want to discuss PL quality with those guys, assuming you can ignore the Liverpool dominance pretext just ask them if Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga or Ligue 1 are better than PL. They won't say that the PL isn't the best league. They will still say the same shit. But they will dismiss Liverpool at every chance they get. It's not a rational state of mind. No one with a rational state of mind can claim that the PL has ever been the greatest league as there are way too many counterarguments that suggest it is not.

P.S: The only other English club that'd get the same treatement you feel you are receiving now would be Leeds United. Because, as the English say "we all 'ate Leeds 'cum". To the extent that it actually happened in the 70s when the claim was that when Don Revie left Leeds and they became irrelevant, English football dominated Europe whilst the English NT that he took over had turned to shit :lol:
 

jamsieboy86

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Okay, let's discuss further.

Who likes Liverpool?

Liverpool fans and overseas people who don't give a flying fuck about English football but hold them in high regard. Except Juventus.

Who likes Man United? Man Utd fans. Just them.

Who likes Chelsea? Chelsea fans. And people who liked a few of their teams because they were cute (late 90s) or because they were relevant and broke the Arsenal-Man Utd duo in England, or because of Mourinho or whatever other reason.

Who likes Manchester City? Mostly no one in particular outside of their own fans, with the latest (10 years) exception being those who have a strong dislike for Man Utd.

Who hates Liverpool? Everyone in England who does not support Liverpool. And fans of their rivals from everywhere else.

Who hates Chelsea? Tottenham fans. And some Arsenal fans more recently (~15 years).

Who hates Manchester City? Man United fans within England mostly. Most overseas Man United fans never really cared about this team until the last 10 years and in reality, they're not even as fierce a rival for the average foreigner Joe than Wenger's Arsenal was. The reason is because Man United's fortunes started to turn away after a couple of years within this rivalry and they never witnessed them as a competitive rival.

Who hates Man United? Everyone in the world who doesn't support Man Utd.

I know who hates what teams and why. I have friends and also family who support a lot of these teams. My point was never about why people hate Liverpool. My question was why do people hate Liverpool so much that for the 1st time in my lifetime people are actually dissing the league that they would normally defend vehemently.

Now if you think I'm being arrogant when you, a declared Liverpool fan, suggests that it doesn't make sense that there's a negative reaction to Liverpool winning as opposed to Man City or Chelsea or even freaking Leicester winning if I may add, is sacrilege to your own football club.

I never meant to suggest that, I don't think I did, but maybe what I said was open to interpretation. Obviously there is a going to be a negative reaction from rival fans. The whole Li-VAR-pool thing and the like is to be expected. The thing that baffled me was that I have never heard any EPL fans question the quality of the league, ever, until Liverpool are dominating. It's not just rival fans that are saying it, it's fans of mid-table and lower teams too.

Not sure how old you are or when you started paying attention,

Born in 86, and have been following both EPL and Serie A since early 90's, pretty much as far back as I can remember. Probably not relevant but just clarifying.

It's like today, where as you say they claim to be the best season ever in Europe and what not. They do have a claim, and that's what makes them even more annoying. We'll be hearing about that 2019-20 season for decades to come unless it starts becoming a trend which will a) vindicate them and b) make them even more annoying.

You are 100% right here, they are hugely annoying about it. That's why it surprised me so much that these very fans are now questioning the quality of the league just a mere 6 months later.

But I say it once more, if you want to discuss PL quality with those guys, assuming you can ignore the Liverpool dominance pretext just ask them if Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga or Ligue 1 are better than PL. They won't say that the PL isn't the best league. They will still say the same shit. But they will dismiss Liverpool at every chance they get. It's not a rational state of mind.

Perhaps that is it, I'm probably just trying to rationalise something that isn't rational. I'll use that one though, I'll just keep claiming Serie A is the best league in the world without backing it up, like they have done about the EPL for so long.

I also think the fact Liverpool have been easy to dismiss by other fans due to not winning the league for so long could be getting to them. Their go to response will now be no longer valid. I knew Liverpool were a hated team but not to this level. I had always thought Man Utd were the most hated, as well as having the most fans. In fairness to Man Utd fans I've seen some of them defend Liverpool on twitter, maybe they are just more used to being dominant in the modern era. Perhaps Liverpool have never been good enough in my lifetime for people to reveal their hatred of them as much as they are now.

I'm glad that I got to discuss what I set out to in the first place, even if it did take a while getting there.
 

.h.

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Mate essay wars isn't worth it

It's a waste of your energy and life force and the co2 emissions
 
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