European Super League Discussion

[NimAraya]

I have observed that most football fans don't want this shitshow which makes not understand how Madrid and Barcelona are in this, are they not owned by the fans or some kind of supporters group. Perhaps that just shitty thing and not real.

This is what Florentino Perez said:

"Football has to evolve. It is losing interest. We have to think why 16-24 year olds are losing interest. There are bad quality matches and other platforms for entertainment. We have to make it more attractive. It is not something for the rich. We do this to save football."

Well at least Perez doesnt think like 98% percent of FIF members, with the slogan of "a win is a win"! He thinks the poor quality matches is what making football losing fans.

I dont like the ESP idea, specially with all this controversies, but I see his point.

 

[brehme1989]

No pressure = "better product" because by their definition a good product is an "entertaining show", so basically they want to turn football in a shitfest where people don't play defense so that new fans will emerge.

At the moment, people who used to watch football, whether it was domestic or continental, are now turning to crap reality shows because it's some sort of shit casual entertainment. Could be covid related, could be lack of fans related, but in truth, this has been a trend since the mid 2010s at least. Crap reality tv shows sell. And crap football also sells (see PL). Crap basketball also sells (ie last few years' NBA).

What they don't realize is that football has lost interest because European fans do not care about it anymore. It has become a mayter of a few wealthy clubs. They don't realize that by cutting out the last ounce that made this interesting. The Porto beating Juventus part, the Ajax beating Barcelona part, the Monaco beating Man City part, the Shakhtar beating Real Madrid part... you are killing what made this sport the most popular one. Football has always been the one sport where you could see a surprise more often. In sports like basketball, volleyball, rugby, handball, water polo etc, the best teams are always bound to win. Turning football into this (which is where it has been taken in the last 5-9 years) will just turn the contintent's interest the same way those other sports have seen their popularity go. Downhill.

Good luck having a closed league with the "elite", just so that you can sell tv rights to fools. At some point, the fools will like something else and you've just killed the biggest social outlet of the last 100+ years we've had.

 

[K.I.]

Thats why when people were debating which owners would be better for Inter i thought it was kinda irrelevant. Clubs are gonna do whatever is in their interest, they are private companies and at this point i kinda see a mentality that doesn't matter what people think now, fans and people will get used to it and things will go on as they always do.

I am sure some of the people opposing this in a year or two will talk about how amazing the move was for football and how clubs now can even do more good with the money they will generate from this super league.

Are people supposed to hear Perez talk about how clubs lost 5 billion and cry? so? How much money have him and the different stakeholders made off football? Then u have the UEFA president talking about snakes and values, are people supposed to cry for UEFA either?

U have a worldwide pandemic and clubs are getting together to announce new plans that will offset their losses, had u better managed ur clubs u wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. Had Juventus not lost 7 finals they wouldnt cry that Lyon are in a semi final, had Inter better managed some of their funds and usable debt the last 30 years they wouldnt have sold the club to two owners in the span of seven years.

 

[brehme1989]

UEFA Congress live

[youtube]SJrDoT2rVls[/youtube]

 

[Jacquez]

UEFA Congress live

[youtube]SJrDoT2rVls[/youtube]

Listening to Infantino talking about respect, democracy.. what a pile of crap.

 

[Bluenine]

I would have less of an issue with the Super League if it was based purely on merit, and not on pedigree and elitism. I understand the need to revamp the CL, there are too many rubbish games which no one is interested in. If the super league proposal was to create a league with the Top 6 teams of EPL, top 3 from La Liga and Serie A, Top 2 from Bundesliga, and champions of Ligue 1, Eredivisie, etc, I could get on board. This founding members never getting relegated is bullshit.

Personally, I would love CL to become a KO tournament again. That makes all games interesting. But that will never happen, not enough money in it for the big clubs.

 

[qb4ever_2k]

Exactly. There's a discussion about a Super League for years but it always looked like an empty threat to UEFA from the clubs in order to get what they wanted. So why now?

If we want to find the answer of that we don't have to look further than what Perez said last night. It probably was the only honest thing he said last night. Many years of bad management combined with covid crisis have run many of those clubs into the ground and they need the money of this league to survive. Just look at the clubs that are behind it.

Real had to ask from their players and staff to take paycuts, they didn't sign anyone last summer and they even had to sell their best academy players. Barcelona are in a terrible financial situation thanks to Bartomeu disastrous management.

Juventus suffered big losses, they even suspended salaries payments and they need to invest a lot in order to become competitive again in Europe. Inter have also suffered big losses, they were struggling to pay salaries, the ownership don't want to invest further but they also don't want to sell the club at a cut price.

Then you have clubs like Milan who want to get into this because it's the perfect model for Elliot to attract potential buyers while English clubs are getting into this for increased revenues because why the fuck not?

Unsurprisingly, the only top club that is against this league is Bayern, one of the best managed clubs in the world that is rub by club legends and not some greedy bastards and a club that remains in a great financial situation. They even managed to have profits last year.

Good, hope Bayern stand firm and become the new Ajax.

Incredibly well managed and heathy financially club, just irrelevant.

Forza Super League:challenge:

 

[Stefan]

meh, i dunno. You've got to get licenses, things like that. It's well out of my domain of knowledge of 'sporting law', but for example, there are probably FIFA restrictions they can bring in place that prevent them from doinga nything. Bear in mind, for example, all transfers are done via a FIFA system as it already stands. Any arbitration could take years of appeals to go through, as well.


At the endo f the day, that Premiership rule is clear cut - you cannot join another competition without approval from the Premiership. So all those clubs will now have to make a decision, it's either or.

Of course there's nothing to prevent any club from saying "We no longer do competitive football, the only thing we will do is participate in a series of friendlies with other clubs that don't do competitive football"

But even then, you probably have some minimum obligations to be FIFA licensed, for example.

I'm out of my depth on this one, FFP and balance sheets are much easier than laws, I'm just guessing for what its worth.

Only if they want to be fifa licensed. a Break away league doesn't need fifa.
There have been break away leagues in other sports before and played without the world governing body. World series cricket of the 1980's comes to mind.

 

[brehme1989]

Ceferin hitting at the 2007 Serie B champions again

 

[IRR26]

Ceferin: where Juventus were 15 years ago? If I remember they were in serie b.

 

[.h.]

hit them where it hurts

- - - Updated - - -

Only if they want to be fifa licensed. a Break away league doesn't need fifa.
There have been break away leagues in other sports before and played without the world governing body. World series cricket of the 1980's comes to mind.

itd be interesting to have a bit of a review on the ramifications of fifa license vs not. There might be a legal side (e.g. coaches in communication with kids need to be certified professionals with active licenses), something perhaps with sponsors not being able to sponsor a non-FIFA licensed football player... who knows.

 

[IRR26]

Ceferin asked some english clubs to consider this decision again. Spanish and italian seems then lost in this matter.

 

[CafeCordoba]

They cannot overturn it anymore. Papers have been signed. It is done.

 

[Minardista]

Football clubs are not supposed to do what the duty of a local council/government is.

Certainly in a country that embraces socialism that is true. But the reality is most of the Western world and its various democracies have voted to live in societies where the government is absolved of almost all responsibilities and it is shouldered onto private enterprises, including areas that a socialist government would otherwise administer. Rich football clubs embrace this type of society because it usually means they pay fewer taxes, keeping more revenue for themselves. And an insatiable appetite for more revenue is how we've ended up with ESL. Anyway, if clubs want the rewards from societies structured in such a manner, they must assume the burden of the responsibilities forced upon them by an absentee state. Then again, if we are speaking of a pure neoliberal state, not merely a capitalist one, then no-one has any responsibility to anyone else...and then civilisation destroys itself through greed and selfishness. Like ESL destroys football through greed and selfishness.

But OK, maybe it's time I stop being a bargain bin Slavoj Žižek. I've slipped into outright diatribe territory at this point.

Overall my point is that the origin of most football clubs, 100+ years ago, was as a meeting point of the community. A lot of that has already been erased for many clubs, for sure, especially in the last 20-30 years. But even these big clubs put in some kind of effort on occasion; Inter Campus comes to mind. During this period the multi-billion euro clubs at least put up a pretence of social responsibility, even if they didn't really believe it. Gloves are off now.

This is what Florentino Perez said:

"Football has to evolve. It is losing interest. We have to think why 16-24 year olds are losing interest. There are bad quality matches and other platforms for entertainment. We have to make it more attractive. It is not something for the rich. We do this to save football."

Well at least Perez doesnt think like 98% percent of FIF members, with the slogan of "a win is a win"! He thinks the poor quality matches is what making football losing fans.

I dont like the ESP idea, specially with all this controversies, but I see his point.

If elite clubs actually believed in what Perez is saying and not just putting it up as a crap justification for the ESL, then Zdeněk Zeman would not have been frozen out of managing top clubs after uncovering Juventus' doping, would he? He brings this exciting football, after all – he is the man you are looking for! So why don't you put your money where your mouth is and hire him then, Perez? Because he has principles and you do not.

 

[Il Drago]

Ceferin asked some english clubs to consider this decision again. Spanish and italian seems then lost in this matter.

Italian and Spanish clubs desperately need the money so there's no chance they will back down. Only English clubs could stop this league and even not all of them. The Americans of Man Utd and Liverpool want to turn this league into the European version of NFL. Levy and Kroenke are as greedy as it gets. Only City and Chelsea could back down as they don't need the money.

They cannot overturn it anymore. Papers have been signed. It is done.

There's no contract that doesn't have an exit clause. And if there's anyone who can afford it, it's Man City owner.

 

[Linege]

Italian and Spanish clubs desperately need the money so there's no chance they will back down.

exactly, if nothing happens top serie a teams will have to cut budget very hard and selling all top players

just one number, 750 mil a season for new tv deal for all 20 clubs with more money to shit clubs

inter will get less money from domestic tv deal then in mid 2000s

and bundesliga got like 1100 a season, serie a is like diadora/kappa to adidas/puma

 

[Materazzi_23]

It baffles me that all these clubs in the ESL talking about more money and how much money they've lost during the Corona crisis.

Normal companies (unfortunately football clubs are companies nowadays) would cut their budget, seek new opportunities within the current work environment but not the football clubs. Instead of taking the Corona crisis as a starting point of reforms in terms of salaries and payment to agents etc they want more money so they can pay someone millions more. Maybe we should realize that the salaries in the football world are not sustainable, not now and not if you get another 300M a year. Football clubs are very good in spending all the money they have whether they need the players or overpaying is irrelevant for them.


They've lost them self in the football world and are not living in the real world and have some delusional thinking that they are entitled to certain things. I think a lot of people aren't interested in football as much as they where because of the crazy money which is spend in football and that takes the fun away. (the last part is purely my own opinion).

 

[qb4ever_2k]

Ceferin asked some english clubs to consider this decision again. Spanish and italian seems then lost in this matter.

Sounds like they're begging

 

[Linege]

Normal companies (unfortunately football clubs are companies nowadays) would cut their budget, seek new opportunities within the current work environment but not the football clubs.

as for inter, we would have to sell 2-3 players like lukaku, lautaro and hakimi

I think a lot of people aren't interested in football as much as they where because of the crazy money which is spend in football and that takes the fun away. (the last part is purely my own opinion).

when i browse the sport pay tv forums etc, 90% of people who pays for watching tv want ONLY EPL/LALIGA and CL.

they watch like 2, 4 max games in a weekend. its all real, barca, city, liverpool etc. NOTHING else.

so most people want to watch ONLY teams with crazy money

 

[Kev9Inter]

The big clubs have pissed everybody off let's see if Gianni Infantino can get the fans on his side

Infantino, "Qatar has made a great implementation in human rights. The 2022 World Cup will be the best in history."