Financial crisis (in Europe)

[CafeCordoba]

Didn't find a thread about financial crisis (thought if there was one back from 2008 when the last crisis occurred but didn't find one) so I decided to open a new one.

Anyway, it would be interesting to talk about these things with the people here as we have people from all over the world in this same forum.

I don't know how many of you know anything about the current situation in Europe, but it really looks we are heading for another recession here. And it isn't clear if Euro or European Union are even going to last. Very interesting times but also very worrying times because of the massive debts in euro zone. The future of the people in Europe doesn't look that good. Or at least for the people of countries belonging to Euro.

 

[Pajo]

It's the greeks fault...

 

[CafeCordoba]

It's the Greek's fault for taking massive debts but also the lenders fault for giving almost free money to PIIGS countries (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain). Now we (financially healthier EU countries) are saving those German, French and British banks which lend all that money to those countries.

And whatever Greece and Italy will decide with their new governments (decided in days in Greece and in weeks in Italy I believe) it will be a hell of a ride for the people in those countries. Massive cuts and increases in taxation will follow if they want to stay in Euro. If they don't stay in Euro, it will be even worse as they go in "bankruptcy" (they run out of money with their massive debt burdens).

 

[Lionheart]

I thought we don't do political discussions anymore. I can't see this thread not going into politics any second.

 

[Dylan]

Sorry :|

 

[Black&Blue]

It's the Greek's fault for taking massive debts but also the lenders fault for giving almost free money to PIIGS countries (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain). Now we (financially healthier EU countries) are saving those German, French and British banks which lend all that money to those countries.

And whatever Greece and Italy will decide with their new governments (decided in days in Greece and in weeks in Italy I believe) it will be a hell of a ride for the people in those countries. Massive cuts and increases in taxation will follow if they want to stay in Euro. If they don't stay in Euro, it will be even worse as they go in "bankruptcy" (they run out of money with their massive debt burdens).

The fact that french and germans are so concerned about italian economic situation is simply becouse ALL Europe risks the collapse if Italy fail. You should face the fact that without Italy in EU there's no Europe,not just for the historical importance but mainly for economic reasons (we are still the 3rd economy of Europe,the 7th in the World although the shame we are facing now)

 

[Pimpin]

okerface:

 

[snake]

Horrible times indeed for Europe. The world is not in a very good state it must be said. The banks shoulder a lot of the blame here for all the lending handed out. Silvio is finally stepping down...it will take a while, but Italy will need to slowly crawl it's way back.

 

[blackmore]

And yet MM should be getting more sponsorship money from Nike... seems like they will make anyone an accountant these days

 

[I4E]

It's the greeks fault...

In a way yes, but really its the fault of the countries like France and Germany for allowing a country like Greece membership into the EU when they clearly weren't fit for it. But i guess France and Germany were protecting their interests.

England weren't silly to give up their currency !

 

[Coasterfreek]

We're still the worst country compared to any European country right?

 

[Handoyo]

Get your asses back on track you damn Europeans. Our currency and stock market deteriorate every time you guys fucked up.



(Btw, we will be closely monitoring this thread. We know that this crisis is as much political as it is financial. Let's try to keep the politics side out of this forum altogether.)

 

[blackmore]

We're still the worst country compared to any European country right?

If in we you mean the US, then yes....most definately!

 

[I4E]

I guess this is one of the best things about being Australian :fuckyea:

 

[AxigZag.ESIOLAG.]

Psst! Germany should bail them all out lol...Aren't they supposed to be the China of Europe these days? In any case, I don't see this thing getting to the point where the Euro completely fails...Too damn powerful to go down like that.

 

[Handoyo]

I would say that at the moment, things look bleaker in Europe than in the US. At least there isn't that big of uncertainties in the US. Stagnant economy, slow growth and a rebound that is not as strong as it should have been after a crisis.

But Europe faces not only financial uncertainties, but also political as well.

By the way, 7.25% yield in Italian bond is just about the same as Indonesian government bond. Laughable really.

Heck with today's 50 bps rate cut from Bank Indonesia (to 6%), It will be lower.

Psst! Germany should bail them all out lol...Aren't they supposed to be the China of Europe these days? In any case, I don't see this thing getting to the point where the Euro completely fails...Too damn powerful to go down like that.

Pretty sure if even ze German can't bail out Italy.

I hope they're smart enough to not let the Euro fails. I can't even imagine the repercussions. We all saw what happened when Lehman Brothers collapsed. wtf will happen if motherfreaking Italy suffers the same fate? Might as well go liquidate everything and sleep with cash under our mattresses. :work:

 

[AxigZag.ESIOLAG.]

I would say that at the moment, things look bleaker in Europe than in the US. At least there isn't that big of uncertainties in the US. Stagnant economy, slow growth and a rebound that is not as strong as it should have been after a crisis.

But Europe faces not only financial uncertainties, but also political as well.

By the way, 7.25% yield in Italian bond is just about the same as Indonesian government bond. Laughable really.

Heck with today's 50 bps rate cut from Bank Indonesia (to 6%), It will be lower.


Pretty sure if even ze German can't bail out Italy.

I hope they're smart enough to not let the Euro fails. I can't even imagine the repercussions. We all saw what happened when Lehman Brothers collapsed. wtf will happen if motherfreaking Italy suffers the same fate? Might as well go liquidate everything and sleep with cash under our mattresses. :work:

True that...it seems American banks are back to their old tricks again lol...Who said 2012 is not real! These fuckers are out to ruin the world one way or the other...I think those crooks can cook up a way for the zone to distance itself from Italy even if Italy goes down...Hell all of this crap depends on dump speculation, broke ass folks like myself, unknowingly & forcibly too, pay for!

 

[CafeCordoba]

Lol, didn't remember at all that politics weren't allowed in this forum.

And yes, this crisis is all about politics. So I'm not sure if this thread needs to be locked. :rollani:


Recession will come, that is certain. The debt based economy can't continue for much longer, it just simply doesn't work. I can't see a solution where Greece would survive. And when Greece goes into default, lot of banks will be fucked. When Italy falls, all hell breaks loose. Germany can't save Italy, because Italy has something like almost 2000b€ debts. Even if there aren't that much debts which need to be paid in short time like it was with Greece and Portugal, the amount is so big it isn't possible to ever pay it back. I don't see a good outcome coming out of this in anyway.

And no one knows what really happens when Greece really goes into default and those CDSs (credit default swaps) goes off (or what is the right word?). Let alone when CDSs "insured" to Italy goes off. I'm not 100% sure how those financial instruments work, but anyway they are like insurances against something (in this case if A goes into default, for example).

My opinion is that financial sector have fucked up this world with their imaginative financial instruments they have invented looking for more and more victories, when the risk doesn't correspond the profits.

(mild politics discussion now) Generally I'm so pissed at our governement for giving those fucking austerity packages to those fucked up countries, because we will never get back those money. Greece should have been let go into default two years ago. Now Europe have just wasted money to buy time for almost two years and "save" the banks and the outcome will be that banks will fall anyway. Finland is AAA country, but I'm not sure are we going to be AAA country in the future when we put more and more responsibility to ourselves with that sinking ship called EU.

 

[FCBarca]

True that...it seems American banks are back to their old tricks again lol...Who said 2012 is not real! These fuckers are out to ruin the world one way or the other...I think those crooks can cook up a way for the zone to distance itself from Italy even if Italy goes down...Hell all of this crap depends on dump speculation, broke ass folks like myself, unknowingly & forcibly too, pay for!

They never stopped their old tricks, it's the same tricks on a loop...Different administration, same greed at work

Perhaps I was a bit naive in thinking I could escape the horror I witnessed as a citizen over there by escaping to Suisse...but the impact is obviously global, much like most things in this world - it impacts us all

 

[Handoyo]