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can we all agree Hamilton is the GOAT?
 

RickyMaravilla'sRightFoot

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Hamilton is good but I think that also reflects very favorably on George Russell. He’s looked like he’s had more pace than him for most of this season.
 
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Puma

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I think what Brehme was inferring that you can hardly be the greatest of all time when your rivals are all driving far inferior cars.

Out of the drivers you named, the only driver that is relevant to Hamilton was Verstappen. The other champions you named are not driving for championship contenders.

Ayrton Senna is definitely the greatest driver of all time.
 
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Adriano@10

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I think what Brehme was inferring that you can hardly be the greatest of all time when your rivals are all driving far inferior cars.

Out of the drivers you named, the only driver that is relevant to Hamilton was Verstappen. The other champions you named are not driving for championship contenders.

Ayrton Senna is definitely the greatest driver of all time.
Would have added Kimi to that list.
him and alonso were in the same car in 2007 and hamilton finished ahead of alonso in his debut season...
In terms of competitiveness i think you forgot how long hamilton is in the game there have been seasons where he had competition other than Verstappen that was on a fast car.
Also i cant think of a single F1 champion that won multiple in a row that was not also in clearly the strongest car not like schumacher had big competition for all of his championships at ferrari.

Anyways as i said before i dont think there s a right answer here.
 

brehme1989

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Schumacher is more of an iconic driver than the greatest. He shaped an era and this was during the time of Michaels being called the greatest (Jordan, Jackson and Schumacher) so there was also that :lol:

Hamilton is dominant in an era where his car was the most dominant by far, literally zero competition and he even lost the championship to his teammate Nico Rosberg for whatever reason you wanna say there was, we all know how teams prioritize certain drivers and Rosberg wasn't it.

The driving quality factor has become less and less important as years go by. There's no cut off period, but we can say that Schumacher also benefited from that.

There's this American derived tendency to measure quality by looking at quantity and it's plain wrong.

Senna is definitely the greatest driver in the last 35 years and I'm not sure how many before him can be argued as better.
I don't care how many championships Schumacher or Hamilton won. Durability and consistency is valuable but immaterial in the discussion about the greatest ever.

Maradona, Ronaldo and Baggio are three players that belong to the top 5 in the last 45 years in their sport, yet you have Messi at a similar level for multiple years and there's Cristiano who has been relevant at a high level for a long while as well. Doesn't make these two better than the first three, just makes them more durable and luckier to play in an era of insanely inflated top teams in terms of roster building capabilities and wealth, as well as better health and a more professional era.
You can count trophies all you want, but if you ask me to take three players at their peak I'm sticking with the first three and I'm only going to give a 2nd thought for Messi over Baggio.

With F1 it's harder to do this because you don't really see drivers use other cars much, the competition is pretty much constant for the most part at the height of their prime. There's not a multitude of tournaments they participate in, no national team car to drive or different surfaces and so on.

I mean, if you wanna ask who the best driver is, you put them all in the same cars, same circuits and make them race from F1 cars to rally cars and even freaking go karts.
When each car is different and each tyre is different you cannot draw proper conclusions. All you have is the time they put with what they have, not what's measurable for comparison reasons.

The 2010s aren't a good enough criteria for this due to the F1 tech. Hamilton was relevant before as well, and everyone acknowledges he's one of the best drivers if not the best of his era, and that's why he's on the best car. But extrapolating this to "all time greatness" feels very, erm, unsophisticated.
 

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Schumacher is more of an iconic driver than the greatest. He shaped an era and this was during the time of Michaels being called the greatest (Jordan, Jackson and Schumacher) so there was also that :lol:

Hamilton is dominant in an era where his car was the most dominant by far, literally zero competition and he even lost the championship to his teammate Nico Rosberg for whatever reason you wanna say there was, we all know how teams prioritize certain drivers and Rosberg wasn't it.

The driving quality factor has become less and less important as years go by. There's no cut off period, but we can say that Schumacher also benefited from that.

There's this American derived tendency to measure quality by looking at quantity and it's plain wrong.

Senna is definitely the greatest driver in the last 35 years and I'm not sure how many before him can be argued as better.
I don't care how many championships Schumacher or Hamilton won. Durability and consistency is valuable but immaterial in the discussion about the greatest ever.

Maradona, Ronaldo and Baggio are three players that belong to the top 5 in the last 45 years in their sport, yet you have Messi at a similar level for multiple years and there's Cristiano who has been relevant at a high level for a long while as well. Doesn't make these two better than the first three, just makes them more durable and luckier to play in an era of insanely inflated top teams in terms of roster building capabilities and wealth, as well as better health and a more professional era.
You can count trophies all you want, but if you ask me to take three players at their peak I'm sticking with the first three and I'm only going to give a 2nd thought for Messi over Baggio.

With F1 it's harder to do this because you don't really see drivers use other cars much, the competition is pretty much constant for the most part at the height of their prime. There's not a multitude of tournaments they participate in, no national team car to drive or different surfaces and so on.

I mean, if you wanna ask who the best driver is, you put them all in the same cars, same circuits and make them race from F1 cars to rally cars and even freaking go karts.
When each car is different and each tyre is different you cannot draw proper conclusions. All you have is the time they put with what they have, not what's measurable for comparison reasons.

The 2010s aren't a good enough criteria for this due to the F1 tech. Hamilton was relevant before as well, and everyone acknowledges he's one of the best drivers if not the best of his era, and that's why he's on the best car. But extrapolating this to "all time greatness" feels very, erm, unsophisticated.
296365808_758261355442341_1941101866360093154_n.png
 

brehme1989

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Verstappen is going to cruise with the championship
 

Adriano@10

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Honestly dudes just to good atm ... Yes he also has the best car but even when the other cars are competitive like today he just looks like he s driving in another class. He imho also made a huge step forward in terms of temper and making silly mistakes. It just always looks so controlled like today after the first like 2 rounds i was like oh shit he s gonna win this too if nothing huge happens.

Also just glad ferrari for once did not make a huge fuckup
 

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Max Verstappen is officially 2022 Formula 1 world champion 4 races before the end of the season. Second title in a row. Red Bull are expected to clinch Constructors title in the following races.
 
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