Formula 1

brehme1989

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I wouldn't rate Hamilton over Fisichella to be frank.

That's mostly because I rate old generation drivers higher. Because it was tougher. And it is unfair on the new generation guys, but they get all the (unwarranted to an extent) hype, so don't care :D
 

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you guys are acting as if schumaher did not have 3 times the car hakkinen had. As if the "vastly superior car" all of a sudden happened with Hamilton.

Hamilton for me is the GOAT, rookie hamilton whooped Alonso (whom i suspect a few people would rate higher than Hamilton on "talent") who had same car as he did. Lately he has matured and become all around best driver.
 

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Emerson Fittipaldi!
 

brehme1989

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Ferrari at the time of Schumacher had a great vehicle, and iirc the best one in Formula 1. Don't recall the dynamics between them and McClaren but I guess it was far closer than it has been in the last 5 years. I actually recall that McClaren had a better car and Schumacher complained about that to Ferrari and they came up with a better one eventually.

It was also the 90s and his name was Michael and some fancy "Mika". He was bound for greatness :lol:.

All these guys are immense drivers, even the backup guys. It's hard to judge, but since the cars arent the the same it takes away from the argument.
 

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you guys are acting as if schumaher did not have 3 times the car hakkinen had. As if the "vastly superior car" all of a sudden happened with Hamilton.

Hamilton for me is the GOAT, rookie hamilton whooped Alonso (whom i suspect a few people would rate higher than Hamilton on "talent") who had same car as he did. Lately he has matured and become all around best driver.

and Schumacher also benefitted from team order.

Some people talk as if drivers do not have any contribution to their cars setup. Formula 1 isn't just about how good you drive your car.
 

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and Schumacher also benefitted from team order.

Some people talk as if drivers do not have any contribution to their cars setup. Formula 1 isn't just about how good you drive your car.

I agree. Especially if the driver is someone like Niki Lauda. Imagine if Hamilton won like this.

 

brehme1989

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Ha I remember there. Didn't they do the opposite a couple of races after?
 

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Race week :D something additional to watch besides basketball, baseball, and inter this weekend
 

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Verstappen is a huge dickhead
 

brehme1989

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Schumacher documentary on Netflix is top notch.

Brings back a lot of memories.
 

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Cricket. Mostly because I don't recognize it as one :lol:
Any game that stops for morning tea, lunch and goes five days is definitely not a sport. I think Cricket would be better classified as a picnic.

And for the record, the best driver in the history of F1 was and remains Ayrton Senna.

Michael Schumacher benefitted from team orders with both Rubens Barrichello and Eddie Irvine as teammates. Essentially, they were unable to race him.

As for Hamilton, he has not had much competition over the years both in competitive drivers that can race against him and competitive teams with great cars.
 
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brehme1989

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I rate Senna and Schumacher at the top. Cannot distinguish between them, the fascination of Schumi coming up so swiftly was just too much to not be affected by it.

Hamilton is a very good driver, no one can take that away from him, but he raced in an era that's not as competitive with some absurd rules, has had the best car by far for almost a decade now and you just cannot ignore F1's perennial British bias which will shadow his achievements when looking back. He took the easy road. Something that Schumacher did not. As for Barichello and Irvine, I think you're exaggerating this as it applied to everyone. Hakkinen and Coulthard did similar things during those championships iirc. And I remember Schumacher returning the favor to Barichello once or twice, those last turn position switches were pure cringe.

Last couple of seasons we're seeing something that was missing during most of Hamilton's reign. Hopefully Ferrari comes back strong next year. I just cannot stand Hamilton winning anymore lol.
 

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I rate Senna and Schumacher at the top. Cannot distinguish between them, the fascination of Schumi coming up so swiftly was just too much to not be affected by it.

Hamilton is a very good driver, no one can take that away from him, but he raced in an era that's not as competitive with some absurd rules, has had the best car by far for almost a decade now and you just cannot ignore F1's perennial British bias which will shadow his achievements when looking back. He took the easy road. Something that Schumacher did not. As for Barichello and Irvine, I think you're exaggerating this as it applied to everyone. Hakkinen and Coulthard did similar things during those championships iirc. And I remember Schumacher returning the favor to Barichello once or twice, those last turn position switches were pure cringe.

Last couple of seasons we're seeing something that was missing during most of Hamilton's reign. Hopefully Ferrari comes back strong next year. I just cannot stand Hamilton winning anymore lol.
this is absolutely not true. Schumacher gave way to barrichello in a meaningless race after he had clinched the title. If you think Hamilton's car is superior that means you simply did not watch 2000's f1, that ferrari was on steroids.

Hamilton had 1000 gazillion more competitive teammates than Schumacher, he never had anyone in the same stratosphere as good as Alonso nor as talented as Rosberg. He battled it out with Rosberg for 3 years, where he got 2 titles and rosberg 1. On the other hand he won the title versus Alonso on his rookie season. So 3 out of 7 titles have come versus his ultra competitive teammates, no favors and at his throat.

Who were Schumacher team mate "competition"? Baricchello?
 

brehme1989

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this is absolutely not true. Schumacher gave way to barrichello in a meaningless race after he had clinched the title. If you think Hamilton's car is superior that means you simply did not watch 2000's f1, that ferrari was on steroids.

Erm, the comparison is between peers, not 2004 with 2018 or whatever.

Ferrari car in the mid-late 90s wasn't that good, it became better in the early 2000s which obviously was a catalyst in Schumacher's reign. But McLaren wasn't that far behind or actually was superior in occasions. Ferrari only got the vastly superior vehicle for like 2 years during that time. With Hamilton it's been the case since 2013 or something. And there's zero competition. Ferrari had significant competition back then, with not only McLaren, but also Renault and several other Mercedes cars iirc. Then came Red Bull and killed everyone until McLaren just wiped everyone out. Talk about steroids...

As for Schumacher and Barrichello, this is something that happened quite often. To simply suggest that it was a Schumacher thing is bias. Ferrari picked that up from McLaren who did it with both Villeuneuve and Hakkinen as their lead drivers. The irony is that Eddie Irvine lost the championship due to this when Schumacher was out, although he could have clinched it at times but couldn't. After that, Ferrari started pulling this off for over 10 years :lol:

It's ugly and no one likes it. Not even the drivers.

Hamilton had 1000 gazillion more competitive teammates than Schumacher, he never had anyone in the same stratosphere as good as Alonso nor as talented as Rosberg. He battled it out with Rosberg for 3 years, where he got 2 titles and rosberg 1. On the other hand he won the title versus Alonso on his rookie season. So 3 out of 7 titles have come versus his ultra competitive teammates, no favors and at his throat.

Who were Schumacher team mate "competition"? Baricchello?

Barrichello is a very underrated driver actually, but he always drove shit cars before joining Ferrari. Massa wasn't great but he wasn't bad either.


I don't see much relevance here, but Hamilton also had the likes of Kovalainen as teammates.

I feel you're overrating Rosberg, don't think he was really that far ahead of Barrichello. And that's also one of the reasons why I feel Hamilton himself is overrated.
The difference in level between the cars in that period was enormous, partly the reason why so many people just stopped bothering with F1 in that decade:

Chart-1.png


By titles alone he's definitely a top 5 lock, some can argue greatest of all time and so on, but you gotta have context here if you're going that deep.

Fantastic driver, but it's like giving credit to Juventus for winning the 2010s scudetti when a catalytical reason was the collapsed competition.
 
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brehme1989

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fucking Hamilton took over 1st place
 
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