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ADRossi

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It's absolutely terrible. There's nothing wrong with the offsides rule.
 
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_OC_

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It's absolutely terrible. There's nothing wrong with the offsides rule.

Evu49orXIAYC_2t


Where is the problem with the current offside, and what does the above 'solve'? Except giving attackers an enourmous advantage. Ridiculous.

The worst thing is that it's already on the table of IFAB.
 

brehme1989

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Wenger should look to enforce a foreigners limit across FIFA competitions and use that power to threaten the EU (UEFA will squeal a bit but most of their members would support this) to block National Teams and players from the World Cup in the FAs that would still participate in this disaster that the Bosman ruling has created if he wants to preach "equality" for other continents... Up until the stupid FFP implementation this was an issue, but not a football killing one. Now it's actually too late to put an end to this, football will become a closed league because the European Union has created a monopoly.

The offside rule was fine before the VAR nitpicking.

As for ridiculous decisions, apparently they changed the handball rule in the middle of the season :lol:
 

wera

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Just found this, haven't watched it yet. Apparently great doc.
 

brehme1989

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[youtube]q2KcSjQur28[/youtube]
 

Kramerica Industries

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Honest question and I'd most appreciate Brehme's perspective on this since he's the one who I've noticed is the most vocal about it.

Is the case of the Bosman ruling a situation where the problem comes from the unintended consequences of it, or for what the ruling itself was about? Because, in the United States, there was a pretty similar case - at least, it seems like it was a similar case based on surface details - about 20 years before it, with Curt Flood taking Major League Baseball to court to try and eliminate the reserve clause rule. In a nutshell, what the reserve clause did was bind you to your current team for as long as they wished to have you. Year after year, they could renew your contract, and that was that. You didn't have all that much leverage. Teams were inclined to trade you if you wanted out, and some players just as soon retired, if for nothing else than to wait it out until a new manager was hired who didn't hate them, or something like that. You didn't have to, you know, try and present yourself as an honorable club to try and appeal to prospective recruits, because you weren't signing free agents anyway. "Free agents", as they were, consisted of unwanted players. The occasional find could be had, but it wasn't a high percentage.

The point being, while I obviously wasn't around when the Curt Flood ruling came out, I would've 100% supported the decision eliminating the reserve clause. I don't agree at all with the idea of teams being able to hold onto players out-of-contract in perpetuity and restricting their options of employment and capacity to earn what the market says they might be worth. It's not that I'm anti-business, but I'm opposed to artificially depressing anyone's market value, if that makes any sense. So, based on my understanding of the Bosman ruling, I feel very much the same about that. They're the ones actually playing the game and providing the entertainment. The game literally would not exist without them (at least, not in a manner that we would care to watch as much). Nobody is more important than they are and they deserve to be rewarded as such.

The part that I'm not going to claim to have any understanding of would have to do with unintended consequences that the Bosman ruling created. I mean, even after the Curt Flood decision in MLB, there's still been 23* different organizations to win the championship of the sport in the 45 seasons since. The most any individual team has won is seven. Seven championships in 45 years - even acknowledging the obvious differences in championship structures in the sports, but I suspect if I were to look at how many different teams finished with the best record in the league each season, the numbers in general still wouldn't be hugely different in the broader scheme of things - looks positively quaint compared to Man Utd winning 13 Premier League titles between 1993-2013, or obviously Bayern winning nine straight Meisterschale's, Juve "winning" nine straight Scudetti, PSG and Man City's modern day dominance, etc. (Barcelona and Real Madrid are somewhat notwithstanding given their historic dominance in La Liga prior to 1995, but even then there were more championships that would pop up from the Basque Country or from Atleti then as compared to since 1995). The point being, free agency not only didn't hurt parity in the sport, but it actually exacerbated it. The Yankees won 20 championships between 1923-'62, literally half of them. Since free agency entered the NFL, it's been a sport renown for teams going from the Super Bowl one year to also-ran status the next, and then bouncing back again after that. I honestly wouldn't know what difference has been made to the NBA because it's always been a sport of dynasties even before Lebron/Wade/Bosh kick-started the "superfriends" approach to roster building.

I'm rambling at this point. My general question being about just what it was about the Bosman ruling that has led to the sport being the way it is today, and what could've been done to have had a more optimal outcome instead while that was still possible.

*22 if you don't count the lone Astros World Series championship.
 

brehme1989

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I've been summoned.

I will dig into this more, don't want to give you a generic response. Will check what the rule change explicitly says and try to find the connection with the Bosman ruling.

US sports are of course much different, but I know MLB is less strict about salary caps and transfers.
 

ADRossi

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American sports have more mechanisms than European sports to promote equality and competition. The introduction of the Bosman ruling removed one of the only such mechanisms in European sports, whereas the American decision did not.

The biggest discernable difference between the two is the American concept of a draft. You're guaranteed a pipeline of cost-controlled, high-end talent regardless of your performance. You don't need to pay more than your competition for said talent and you don't need to recruit the talent to join you. The talent is told that if they want to participate in the monopoly that is American sports, they have to play by their rules. So the introduction of free agency into MLB didn't alter the primary way which teams are constructed. Due to salary limitations (there is a luxury tax in baseball) and overall resource constraints the most effective way to get good in baseball is from drafting well. The point to emphasize is that baseball players are drafted at age 18 or 21, when you have a solid idea of their skill profile.

Since a concept like this doesn't exist in European football, small clubs were immediately put at a disadvantage with the introduction of Bosman. Suddenly Alexis Sanchez at Udinese has no incentive to stay at his current club. Udinese knew that they needed to sell the player, or else risk losing him for free. When do they have the most leverage to sell him for the most money possible? When there's still a lot of time left on his contract. Players obtained a large source of power through this, rendering the smaller clubs helpless. Unfortunately for a club like Udinese, it's next to impossible to go out and just find another 15 year old Alexis Sanchez playing in Chile, regardless of how much money you receive. Players like him are recruited through "connections" and "agents" from the time they're little kids. Instead of competing against 29 team in a draft system, you're competing against hundreds of clubs across multiple continents - many with larger financial clout than you.

Hope that helps until brehme digs his almanac out of his parent's attic.
 

Ottoman empire

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May I ask the forum on which is more prestigious between the ballon dor and FIFA best? This issue may arise when 2 different players win the 2 in the same year. Who will be regarded as "the best player"?
 

TheNetworkZ

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UEFA are reportedly rejecting it, makes sense as it messes with the Euros. Regardless these guys all want more games, it's been reported on both club and international fronts. I'm sure there will be some sort of shift in the coming years to cater for it unfortunately.
 

wera

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Former Bayer Leverkusen & Fenerbahçe player Sezer Öztürk has reportedly murdered 1 person and injured 4 with a gun after a traffic dispute in Turkey. He’s now on the run.

WHAT THE HOLY FUCK
 

Fitzy

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Might as well just get rid of club competitions and have a year-long international break.
 

Harpsabu

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How do other leagues compete with the money of the Premier league? The premier league is only going to get larger where it feels like the other leagues are struggling.
 
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brehme1989

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How do other leagues compete with the money of the Premier league? The premier league is only going to get larger where it feels like the other leagues are struggling.
Probably by calling Moneyval to check on the whole scene?
 
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