German Bundesliga 2023/2024

[DiegoMilito22]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1692850613858533472

 

[Il Drago]

Leverkusen-Leipzig didn't disappoint. 3-2 win for Bayer in an entertaining game. Openda with a nomination for the miss of the season.

Crazy match in Augsburg between home team and Gladbach that ended 4-4.

 

[brehme1989]

Curious to see how Victor Boniface turns out for Leverkusen this season. I expect big things from him as a player.

 

[Il Drago]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1693162807041073580

 

[Kramerica Industries]

The Bundesliga thread kinda depresses me when I read the negativity. Personally, I feel like, with the combination of the playing surfaces, infrastructure, weather, stadium atmosphere, and style of football, that it's the best of any country when taking all those factors into account for watching football. I probably watch more Premier League than Bundesliga just because it's hard to, you know, "be on top of things" if you don't follow the Prem, but this is the league I enjoy watching the most, and it always has been.

Heidenheim scoring their first goal in the top flight today, and it's going to be hard to do any better because it was a wonderful free kick scored by someone named "Beste".

Gosens with two goals in his Union debut, and Behrens with his 4th header goal in 130 minutes of play this season.

 

[brehme1989]

Bundesliga rocks. But Bayern ruins it in the last 10 years.

 

[Kramerica Industries]

Bundesliga rocks. But Bayern ruins it in the last 10 years.

The problem is - and I know I've had this discussion many times, probably even on this forum - how do you actually "fix" it? Bayern isn't a club owned by a sugar daddy. They have wealthy sponsorships, of course, but they abide by 50% + 1. They've gotten to the position they're in over the course of time. They have the combination of being the biggest, most successful club along with playing in the most attractive city in the country (generally speaking; I don't need to hear anecdotal examples). You can't impose a salary cap, because that would make the Bundesliga uncompetitive in the transfer market and uncompetitive in the Champions League long-term; Bayern would never allow for that, nor should they. (Personally, I'm also against suppression of wages.) There is a competition issue there; Bayern winning 11 straight Meisterschalen is proof of that.

But I don't see what the solution is, short of disbanding 50% + 1, and of course you do that and open yourself up to potential foreign ownership, it could obviously bring more money into the league, perhaps allow some other clubs greater competitive opportunity both in the league and in the Champions League, but I'm concerned there would be the risk of the "average fan" eventually getting priced out. I mean, maybe I'm wrong, there are definitely more complex factors than what I'm even thinking of right now, I would just hate to see the Bundesliga and German football in general lose some of what does make it appealing...very difficult thread to needle. (This is without discussing that Germans in general simply don't want ownership models that you find elsewhere, even if it means a maintaining of the Bayern status quo at the top of the table. It's hard to have a triumph over the will of the fans, in that regard.)

 

[Il Drago]

The Bundesliga thread kinda depresses me when I read the negativity. Personally, I feel like, with the combination of the playing surfaces, infrastructure, weather, stadium atmosphere, and style of football, that it's the best of any country when taking all those factors into account for watching football. I probably watch more Premier League than Bundesliga just because it's hard to, you know, "be on top of things" if you don't follow the Prem, but this is the league I enjoy watching the most, and it always has been.

Heidenheim scoring their first goal in the top flight today, and it's going to be hard to do any better because it was a wonderful free kick scored by someone named "Beste".

Gosens with two goals in his Union debut, and Behrens with his 4th header goal in 130 minutes of play this season.

To negativity i always respond the same thing. Each to their own. They can choose to focus only on Bayern dominance to shit on the league. We will focus on everything else that makes the league so entertaining to watch. I will add one thing to your list about why we follow Bundesliga. Interesting footballing projects. The project of Freiburg. The project of Union Berlin. Eintracht, Hoffenheim, Mainz to name a few. Beautiful footballing stories. Clubs on very low budgets but with resourceful management, great infrastructure and a great mentality when it comes to promoting talents. How can you not be charmed by the rise of Freiburg, and Union if you're a true football fan?

The problem is - and I know I've had this discussion many times, probably even on this forum - how do you actually "fix" it? Bayern isn't a club owned by a sugar daddy. They have wealthy sponsorships, of course, but they abide by 50% + 1. They've gotten to the position they're in over the course of time. They have the combination of being the biggest, most successful club along with playing in the most attractive city in the country (generally speaking; I don't need to hear anecdotal examples). You can't impose a salary cap, because that would make the Bundesliga uncompetitive in the transfer market and uncompetitive in the Champions League long-term; Bayern would never allow for that, nor should they. (Personally, I'm also against suppression of wages.) There is a competition issue there; Bayern winning 11 straight Meisterschalen is proof of that.

But I don't see what the solution is, short of disbanding 50% + 1, and of course you do that and open yourself up to potential foreign ownership, it could obviously bring more money into the league, perhaps allow some other clubs greater competitive opportunity both in the league and in the Champions League, but I'm concerned there would be the risk of the "average fan" eventually getting priced out. I mean, maybe I'm wrong, there are definitely more complex factors than what I'm even thinking of right now, I would just hate to see the Bundesliga and German football in general lose some of what does make it appealing...very difficult thread to needle. (This is without discussing that Germans in general simply don't want ownership models that you find elsewhere, even if it means a maintaining of the Bayern status quo at the top of the table. It's hard to have a triumph over the will of the fans, in that regard.)

If you want to stop Bayern domination disbanding 50+1 rule is the only way. Rest of the league just can't compete financially with Bayern. That's the problem. But if you do it then you open a can of worms and i fear it will ruin the beauty of German football. Fans footballing culture in Germany won't accept it. You see the perception of Leipzig and Hoffenheim by vast majority. And Hoffenheim aren't even a threat to anyone regarding top spots. It even took years for Leverkusen and Wolfsburg to be accepted. They prefer watching Bayern dominate over selling "the soul of the sport" to foreign (or even local) capitalists (or worse sovereign funds).

 

[brehme1989]

If only Hoffenheim was something like Heidelberg At least you could root for them as a foreigner. Hoffenheim is just meh. ChievoVerona vibes.

I don't think disbanding 50+1 fixes Bayern winning. There's no guarantee that anyone comes in and revitalizes clubs like HSV, Schalke, Werder etc and make them competitive again.

50+1 actually does work. Name me a club that has failed. Then look at Italy, Spain and even England and you see several of them. Italy is famous for zombie clubs, England and Spain have clubs that fall from grace, never to return to the top or even top 2 divisions again, after just 1 bad ownership.

I honestly don't see any German club that failed. Maybe Bayern's cousins are some sort of "failure", but they were never special. And the DDR teams were never competitive since 1990 to consider them a loss, although it'd be fun to have Dynamo Berlin, Dynamo Dresden and Magdeburg at the top division. A counter argument here is that teams that weren't usually irrelevant have become that. Schalke, Hamburg, Gladbach, Nurnberg, Koln, Werder, Stuttgart and Frankfurt are rather irrelevant now as none of them would compete for the Bundesliga. And even if they somehow did, it'd be a one off.
I'm not sure if this is Bayern destroying them as much as themselves just imploding because they want to become Bayern without the means [this only applies to a handful] and it just bites them. 50+1 has the populism element so a director who promises weird shit may be preferred over a realistic approach with 3-5-10 year plans.

 

[brehme1989]

St Pauli vs Magdeburg for the 2nd division now, till F1 starts

Let's go Magdeburg

 

[brehme1989]

Interestingly enough, this is on the discussion we had the other day

 

[Kramerica Industries]

If someone's gonna threaten Bayern this year, it's gonna have to be Bayer Vizekusen. Dortmund look awful.

 

[Il Drago]

If someone's gonna threaten Bayern this year, it's gonna have to be Bayer Vizekusen. Dortmund look awful.

On my preview i had said this:

Even if we put the biggest choke job of the century in Bundesliga (they put Vizekusen to shame) aside and the puzzling decision of taking the armband from Reus and giving it to Emre Can of all people (Kehl found the culprit), they have lost a lot in creativity with the departures of Bellingham and Guerreiro and i am not convinced about the replacements. I have my doubts if they can rise to the challenge.

As for the dark horse of the season, my vote goes to Leverkusen. Xabi Alonso did a tremendous job since taking over after the disastrous start last season and it will be interesting to see him from the start.

Dortmund lost their two main creators in Bellingham and Guerreiro. And how did they replace them? They brought Nmecha from Wolfsburg who's a good player but not a leader, Sabitzer who's been decent at best since he left Leipzig and Bensebaini who's good in defence but very limited in his attacking game. They also didn't address weakness in rb. They added Fullkrug who's a useful addition but it doesn't mean much if you can't reach the ball to him. Kehl doesn't even come close to Zorc when it comes to squad building.

Also i don't think Terzic is a long term solution. Good caretacker and players love him but he is tactically limited.

It's gonna be a tough season for them.

 

[IM21]

Wont be surprised if bvb doesnt make the top 4.

 

[RotterdamNerazzurri]

Curious to see how Victor Boniface turns out for Leverkusen this season. I expect big things from him as a player.

He started out great for Leverkusen. The talent was never in doubt regarding him. He’s had some serious injury problems what held his development back. Nice to see him perform like this.

 

[IM21]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699381652198232351

 

[SiamoNoi]

Even though i won't be really active on the forum in the following year i will try to update this thread as often as possible.

I see you still didn't tell people interesting story about Heidenheim and their coach.

 

[brehme1989]

I see you still didn't tell people interesting story about Heidenheim and their coach.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Il Drago]

I see you still didn't tell people interesting story about Heidenheim and their coach.

Right! What a beautiful footballing story. Fairytale-like. The guy who took them from fifth division back in 2007 and led them to Bundesliga. The guy who was only supposed to be an interim coach and ended up bening the longest serving coach in Germany. The fact he was born in the small town of Heidenheim and spent last years of his footballing career at the club makes it even more beautiful. But better share a lovely article about him that was written back in 2020.

Heidenheim's Frank Schmidt a rare coach​

Frank Schmidt is one of Germany's great coaches, but few know about the Heidenheim head coach. With the Bundesliga within touching distance, that might be about to change.
Frank Schmidt never really wanted to be a head coach. Just months after his modest playing career ended, Heidenheim's club boss Holger Sanwald gave the job to Schmidt on an interim basis.


"Back then Holger said, right, just do this for a couple of games," Schmidt told German broadcaster SWR.


Thirteen years later, it's safe to say Schmidt's decision was a good one. Perhaps the man who was born just meters from Heidenheim's stadium and went on to play for the club was always destined to be their head coach. Few could have expected Schmidt would go on to be the longest serving head coach in Germany.


Schmidt took the side from the regional fifth division all the way up to the second division, beating a certain RB Leipzig to the third division title in 2014. After years of consolidation in the second tier and a total of of 467 games in charge, Schmidt has led Heidenheim to within touching distance of the Bundesliga — after finishing third in the second division, they host Werder Bremen in the second leg of the relgation playoff on Monday, with the tie evenly poised after a goalless first leg.

A personal coach


Although his own person, Schmidt shares the social competence that Jürgen Klopp is a master of. He has recognized that so long as the effort is right he knows that for many on-lookers in Heidenheim it doesn't matter how the team plays.


Schmidt has kept expectations on the ground, all the while lifting the club to heights they could only have dreamed of. Anchored by his strong relationship with club captain Marc Schnatterer, who has played almost the same number of games for the club as Schmidt has managed, Schmidt has created a team united by a strong mentality and constantly driven by the momentum of their authentic head coach.

Augsburg forward Florian Niederlechner played two and a half seasons under Schmidt before making the move to the Bundesliga and still speaks highly of his former head coach. "He had an honest manner. He made me a better player," Niederlechner told t-online.de. "He knows how to talk to his players and is an incredible person."


In 2011, Schmidt got his "Fussball-Lehrer," Germany's highest football coaching qualification, in a class that included Cologne coach Markus Gisdol, former Leverkusen coach Roger Schmidt and friend Sven Mislintat. Two years later, Schmidt was one of three leading protagonists in a documentary about being a head coach in Germany.


Despite his competence and experience being plain for all to see, Schmidt and Heidenheim have never looked like being anything other than together. Such a part of the community and the club is Schmidt that Heidenheim without Frank Schmidt as head coach is as inconceivable as Freiburg without Christian Streich.

Bundesliga but not bust


When asked whether all the pressure was surely on Werder Bremen going into the promotion playoff, Schmidt replied with a wry smile. "Pressure is something the milkman has."


This response, while half in jest, is also a reminder that Schmidt recognizes football's privileged position in society. It also speaks to Heidenheim, the small club that people might only remember from losing a nine-goal thriller to Bayern Munich in the German Cup last year, and to Schmidt. There's no doubt Heidenheim want to beat Bremen and be in the Bundesliga, but there is very much a feeling that it's fine if they don't. The fact they're even in this position is special enough.

At 46, Schmidt is still relatively young in the coaching world, and in three years his contract with Heidenheim will be up. Club boss Holger Sanwald told SWR that Schmidt can have a lifetime contract. Given the strength of the bond between the club and the coach, it seems hard to imagine Schmidt gesticulating on anyone else's sideline.


Nevertheless, Schmidt's work with Heidenheim has issued a timely reminder that while always necessary, in the right context with the right people the personal skills of management can make the difference. For that reason alone, Schmidt may well end up in a Bundesliga dugout one day. It would be fitting if could be with Heidenheim.

Heidenheim's Frank Schmidt a rare coach – DW – 07/06/2020

Frank Schmidt is one of Germany's great coaches, but few know about the Heidenheim head coach. With the Bundesliga within touching distance, that might be about to change.

www.dw.com

Also a cool story about club's background:

A town of 50,000 will host Bundesliga football in 2023/24 after Heidenheim secured a historic maiden promotion to the German top flight. Competing in the fifth tier just 20 years ago and led solely by local boy Frank Schmidt since 2007, find out more about the Bundesliga's 57th and newest club.



History


A quick glance at Heidenheim's official name – 1. FC Heidenheim 1846 – might suggest you were dealing with the oldest football club in the world, but the year is simply a nod to their earliest incarnation as a gymnastics club, some 20 years before association football was developed in England.


It wasn't until 1910 that Heidenheim's first proper football team was set up, by local engineers working for the Voith Group: VfB Heidenheim. Since then, the club has undergone a host of name changes and been part of several mergers, notably with TSB Heidenheim in 1972. Throughout the 20th century, in its various guises, the club played in Germany's lower leagues, occasionally participating in the DFB Cup after winning their regional cup competition.



The modern day Heidenheim was created in 2007, when the club's football team split from the Heidenheimer Sportbund, a larger sporting association housing 24 departments. Not unlike Hoffenheim and RB Leipzig, Heidenheim's success is very much a recent phenomenon, although the club has climbed the ranks without the significant financial investment enjoyed by the duo it will now join in the Bundesliga.


Still playing in the fifth-tier Verbandsliga in 2003/04, Heidenheim spent four seasons in the fourth-tier Oberliga and South Regionalliga before enjoying promotion in 2009. They were 3. Liga champions ahead of Leipzig in 2013/14, and, having since established themselves as a solid second-tier outfit, they can now celebrate a historic first-ever promotion to the Bundesliga.

 

[brehme1989]

Ah, I thought there was some odd scandal