Inter - Juventus (18 Oct 15) [0-0]

[ElDuccio]

 

[Sassuolu]

i'm sorry then if i forgot that we had a goal bonanza when we had a match against top teams such as madrid or muenchen
yeah we had a great first half. buffon must have been so fucking tired at halftime after made so many save in that first half

Are you high?

 

[Universe]

GdS's has offically become a joke. In what world did Icardi play as well as Murillo yesterday? Also, how was Barzagli not man of the match?



Also, I'm definitely not on the "that was our best football in years" brigade. I was impressed with our intensity in the first half, and we certainly flustered Juventus. However, they had just as many good chances in the first half as we did despite our "dominance". Not to mention that playing at such an intensity clearly had negative effects in the second half as we couldn't keep it up.

Also, the whole, "who are you to judge or disagree with a highly successful coach with years of experience" shtick is so ridiculous. Time and again experience coaches have made obvious mistakes and terrible decisions. If an experienced chef burnt your food one wouldn't hesitate to criticise them for doing so, but yet somehow because this is professional football he's beyond reproach? Mancini is just as fallible as you or I.

Perhaps Murillo was penalized for his two almost-calamitous fuck ups. But yeah, considering Icardi may as well not have played at all, he deserves the lowest score on the team. Santon was clumsy once or twice but IMO Icardi should have got a 4.5. Did nothing except lose out to Barzagli. Not entirely his fault, because Mancini doesn't help him with any kind of tactical plan.

 

[Bes]

Inter-Juventus Scarpini highlights:
https://goo.gl/PxMUSm

 

[Mnassar]

.

Also, the whole, "who are you to judge or disagree with a highly successful coach with years of experience" shtick is so ridiculous. Time and again experience coaches have made obvious mistakes and terrible decisions. If an experienced chef burnt your food one wouldn't hesitate to criticise them for doing so, but yet somehow because this is professional football he's beyond reproach? Mancini is just as fallible as you or I.

While an occasional mistake by a top Chef is expected, as with anyone, but if a chef consistently burns the food then he's neither a top Chef nor is the restaurant any good. I don't thing any person is above criticism or reproach, but the "fuck manshitni" "Mancini knows nothing" is just stupid and just reflects poorly on the person saying it. It's as if they think Mancini doesn't want what's best for his side.

 

[Sokrates]

What a game
what a game!!!

Pics are coming, amala!!!!

 

[militoscores]

happy with the draw. even firs thalf but juve had me scared in the second!

at least we showed we can hang with big boys for at least 45 mins, we will only improve as season goes on i think

1pt off top 8 games in, ill take that

as for individual ratings ,icardi needs to do more off the ball but santon just strikes me as out of place, hes like nagatomo,good player but not top tier level. and thats what we should be going for now

 

[Ronin]

Brozovic did in fact cause issues on the wing.

Brozo was much better on the left wing than on the right one. He split Cuadrado open at one point before crossing to Perisic. Also the crossbar.

 

[TGDella]

Actually disagree with quite a bit of the icardi criticism for this game, I thought he showed a lot of strength in holding up the ball when it was knocked up to him in isolated positions and managed to retain possession well under pressure. That's a very important part of a target mans game and will need to be his main contribution aside from goals - he's never going to be a dribbler.

 

[Bluenine]

@Mnassar, I'm not a Mancini hater but at the same time I'm not a lover of his managerial style. What I'd like to question about your post is point 1 'we had one of the best halves in the first half'... What exactly was so good about it ?

The pressing and intensity of the team was without a doubt impressive. Off the ball they 'looked' fantastic. But ! Once in possession, there was simply no real structure or fluidity in the attacking third. They simply relied far too much on individuality to orchestrate any real opportunities (which there was only one) and the long balls are too ineffective when you consider Icardi had to wrestle against some very strong & experienced defenders.

This type of attacking build-up is a lottery, sometimes you may get away with a moment of brilliance but that is simply not a reliable or good enough plan.

It's quite evident that it doesn't work when you consider that we haven't scored a single goal in the opening 30 minutes of a game this season yet we continue with this hard pressing starts to a game.

Juventus was splendid defending that first half. Pushed Inter wide all the time and aside from the Brozovic 'fuck-it-i'm-gonna-have-a-crack' attempt that hit the bar, Juventus had absolutely no issues with dealing with our attacks.

Sorry, but it's gonna take a hell of a lot more to make me believe we were 'great' in that game.

Dude, no one is saying this Inter is a finished article, or even a great team yet. I am sure most of us understand that we are far from that. There are a lot of issues to resolve, specially in attack which like you said is still completely based on individual moment of brilliance - which good teams can defend against most of the time.

But please also take a look at where we are coming from. We have been broken for 5 years now. We have lacked badly in all components of a good team specially in the last 2-3 years. So far this season, we seem to have made a couple of steps in the right direction:

1. No more defensive leaks: Last season we leaked 48 goals. Sometimes it looked like our midfield did not even exist as the opposition would stroll unopposed to our end of the pitch. This season we have only conceeded 6 in 8 games, and half of them can be attributed to a bad start against a technically superior team. The midfield intensity, and technically better defenders have done that. What is more impressive is that we have done this while playing a higher line of defense.

2. Intensity: I like this word. It accurately describes a very key element of a successful team, and it relates directly to a winning mentality. Our intensity has been as low as our morale in the last 2-3 seasons. Even a few odd spells of good intensity were lost immediately as soon as things started to go wrong. This season seems different. The intensity we showed in that first half yesterday reminded me of the Mourinho days. Its even more impressive that this comes against the defending champions, and soon after we got a trashing. If we can just keep this up for rest of the season, that in itself will be a solid achievement.

Yes, there are numerous areas of improvement. But this season is just 8 games old, and we have a lot of new players. It takes time.

A bit of realism: It is unfortunate that this Inter revolution (assuming it is the real one, and not another false dawn - its still too early to tell) has coincided with a revolution across many top clubs in Italy. Roma, Napoli & Fiorentina seem to have considerably improved, and their starting point was much higher than ours. Juve have a slow start, but only a fool would write them off - they spent more than anyone else in upgrading, and I still think they have bought well (and had the luxury of investing for the longer term). Milan had a similar revolution as Inter, with a similar starting point, and their start to Serie A is more on expected lines than Inter's (I actually expected Inter to start like that). But they will improve once their attackers start gelling better (and Menez comes back). Lazio were at a higher starting point than Inter, and they went for continuity just adding some depth. So 7 good sides, only 3 will make the CL. The odds are stacked against us.

At the moment, I rate Roma, Napoli & Fiorentina above us. And Juventus too. While Fiorentina are a surprise, the other 3 were very much expected. Which is why I have been saying for 3-4 months now - I don't think Inter are the favourites to qualify for the CL - Juve, Roma and Napoli are. We might qualify, specially if these 4 teams go far in Europe, but we are the underdogs and not the favourites to qualify. Hence I get annoyed whenever someone suggests that the coach should be sacked if we don't achieve CL qualification because we spent so much money. As if Inter are the only ones who were spending money or getting stronger this summer. Or as if the starting point does not matter. Or that sacking coaches and starting over really has worked well for us so far!

We need to see how our team progresses over the season. At the end of the season, we need to evaluate how much we have improved or worsened from Mazzarri's team. Not just in terms of our position in the table, because that is relative, but in terms of our play. It may take more than a season to get back to the level Inter should be at.

Finally, for people who are saying we were shit yesterday - please get real. We were equal to Juventus yesterday, and that in itself is an achievement these days.

 

[I4E]

Dude, no one is saying this Inter is a finished article, or even a great team yet. I am sure most of us understand that we are far from that. There are a lot of issues to resolve, specially in attack which like you said is still completely based on individual moment of brilliance - which good teams can defend against most of the time.

But please also take a look at where we are coming from. We have been broken for 5 years now. We have lacked badly in all components of a good team specially in the last 2-3 years. So far this season, we seem to have made a couple of steps in the right direction:

1. No more defensive leaks: Last season we leaked 48 goals. Sometimes it looked like our midfield did not even exist as the opposition would stroll unopposed to our end of the pitch. This season we have only conceeded 6 in 8 games, and half of them can be attributed to a bad start against a technically superior team. The midfield intensity, and technically better defenders have done that. What is more impressive is that we have done this while playing a higher line of defense.

2. Intensity: I like this word. It accurately describes a very key element of a successful team, as it relates directly to a winning mentality. Our intensity has been as low as our morale in the last 2-3 seasons. Even a few odd spells of good intensity were lost immediately as soon as things starting to go wrong. This season seems different. The intensity we showed in that first half yesterday reminded me of the Mourinho days. Its even more impressive that this comes against the defending champions, and soon after we got a trashing. If we can just keep this up for rest of the season, that in itself will be a solid achievement.

Yes, there are numerous areas of improvement. But this season is just 8 games old, and we have a lot of new players. It takes time.

A bit of realism: It is unfortunate that this Inter revolution (assuming it is the real one, and not another false dawn) has coincided with a revolution across many top clubs in Italy. Roma, Napoli & Fiorentina seem to have considerably improved, and their starting point was much higher than ours. Juve have a slow start, but only a fool would write them off - they spent more than anyone else in upgrading, and I still think they have bought well (and had the luxury of investing for the longer term). Milan had a similar revolution as Inter, with a similar starting point, and their start to Serie A is expected (I actually expected Inter to start like that). But they will improve once their attackers start gelling better (and Menez comes back). Lazio were at a higher starting point than Inter, and they went for continuity. So 7 good sides, only 3 will make the CL. The odds are stacked against us.

At the moment, I rate Roma, Napoli & Fiorentina above us. And Juventus too. While Fiorentina are a surprise, the other 3 were very much expected. Which is why I have been saying for 3-4 months now - I don't think Inter are the favourites to qualify for the CL, and I get annoyed whenever someone suggests that the coach should be sacked if we don't achieve that because we spent so much money. As if Inter are the only ones who were spending money or getting stronger. We need to be real, and see how our team progresses over the season. At the end of the season, we need to evaluate how much we have improved or worsened from Mazzarri's team. Not just in terms of our position in the table, because that is relative, but in terms of our play. It may take more than a season to get back to the level Inter should be at.

Finally, for people who are saying we were shit yesterday - please get real. We were equal to Juventus yesterday, and that in itself is an achievement these days.

My post was in context of the game (specifically the first half) and not a criticism of the team or manager as a whole to date.

What I was pointing out was that the intensity & pressing by Inter in a game that had that added emotion of playing against Juve didn't fool me into thinking we were great or even very very good.

I noted what I felt was very good by the team but it simply skewed a lot of people's thoughts into believing we were overall fantastic.

The attacking third is solely dependant on individuality and/or mistakes made by the opposition from our pressing and hassling. This is not the type of play that works against high quality, well drilled sides that rarely make mistakes.

Time will only tell if 'gelling' is the issue with this team, but I find it hard to see that is the case.

 

[Shaun]

I agree with a lot of what you say there, Bluenine. I especially like your thoughts about our intensity. Call it what you will. Be it intensity, or grit, or willpower, but I think the biggest difference this season is that improved mentality. A lot of the new players we've bought (Murillo, Miranda and Melo especially) certainly play the game at a higher intensity, and with a better mentality than the players we've had in recent seasons.

Likewise I agree with your thoughts in regards to where we are in comparison to the other top sides. I think we're probably the 4th best side in the league. I think we'll need a bit of fortune to go our way to qualify for the CL.

However, I really have to disagree with your final point. Firstly, I don't see many/any people saying we were shit. I see a lot of disappointment in the fact that Mancini was so readily willing to accept a draw. Something personally I have no issue with. My reason for this is because I don't think we were their equal. I think we flustered them with our intensity in the first half, and I think Allegri didn't expect Mancini's tactics. However, even in the first half I thought the first 20 minutes or so was about even, and then we had the ascendancy for the remaining of the half. However, even with that we only really had one great chance and that was a long range effort from Brozovic (am I forgetting anything?). While Juve had Cuadrado's chance and had several situations where Zaza's slow decision making stopped very dangerous situations. Whereas in the second half I thought Allegri tweaked his tactics and they were easily the better side. I thought the only times we looked dangerous was when Jovetic was running at their defenders and earning freekicks, but nothing really came of those. I think defensively we held up pretty well though, epecially considering the amount of ball Juve had near our penalty area.

Anyway, I think we played well, and to our strengths. I think it would be difficult to do much better given the technical disparity between the two sides.

 

[Ramdac]

What really bothers me, is that we were extremely lucky not to lose, Khedira's shot that hit the post may ended the match 1-0 to Juve especially that we were toothless in attack and there defense was very good.

Also that made me remember in Sampdoria's match, where IIRC Correa miraculously failed to put the ball in an empty net.

 

[Wobblz]

What really bothers me, is that we were extremely lucky not to lose, Khedira's shot that hit the post may ended the match 1-0 to Juve especially that we were toothless in attack and there defense was very good.

Also that made me remember in Sampdoria's match, where IIRC Correa miraculously failed to put the ball in an empty net.

True, but it's not like we didn't hit the post earlier. Maybe then it would've ended 1-0.

BTW Great post, Bluenine.

 

[Hugo Boss]

i'm sorry then if i forgot that we had a goal bonanza when we had a match against top teams such as madrid or muenchen
yeah we had a great first half. buffon must have been so fucking tired at halftime after made so many save in that first half

Can som3body ban this mofo, Im tired to see some shit stuff here..

 

[danz]

To all the Mancini haters, here's just a quick explanation of what happened:

1. We had one of the best halves in the first half, I don't think anyone can argue with that
2. Second half, our players started to tire, and not Brozo, but Jojo, Medel and Melo. Brozo is no magician or technical player, he needs support when going forward and couldn't find it in Jojo who was less mobile or Medel who was sitting back more and more (Medel was much more involved offensively in the first half). I think one of the reasons why we performed so well in the first half was the aggression and mobility of Medel and Melo who would cut the ball early and usually offer an extra man in the final third.
3. Mancini had a couple of options, to change one of the CMs to give the side extra mobility, or to change module, putting in Bibiany on for Brozo and really going for the kill. The second option, although gutsy, would have given Cuadrado even more space and made our two CMs even more pressed. Bearing in mind Melo was already on a yellow, he decided to change him and go with the latter option.
4. Many argue for a Kondogbia/Brozovic switch, I think that the reason it didnt happen is because Mancini wanted two midfielders to offer width, especially after Dybala came on who could've double teamed with Pogba on Santon and caused problems on the right. Putting in Kondog would've done very little to us going forward but exposed us at the back (I think). You have to Remember that Jojo and Icardi were unable to run much by then, so switching to a 4-3-3 was impossible because 2 our of the 3 at the top were pretty much static by then.

In conclusion, whine all you want about Mancini not going for the win, remember you myopic bastards that last season we would've:
a. Been unable to dictate how the game was played, which is EXACTLY what Mancio did tonight, albeit in a manner that you don't like.
b. Probably conceded three or four goals

1. quite agree
2. everybody knew how tiring our midfield on 2nd half, but why have to wait 90th min for 2x golden sub? and bring in lord guarin first? lol
3. By putting in Biabiany for brozo is a suicide mission. There is no way we can hold Rube midfield with guarin and medel only, and we are not in conceding situation, plus none of these guy can even make simple pass forward.
4. Our main problem last night is with trio medel guarin & bro offer 0 to minus creativity, unable to even hold the ball and offer nothing when attack ( did we even attack on 2nd half? lol). Put in kdog is good to hold ball before we start attacking. IMO our midfield should be filled up with kdog, goku and melo. Goku? I dont know man, for me he is much better than guarin, medel or even bro.

Im not hating Mancini if he has some balls and not to aim draw for some big matches like yesterday. Even allegri is trying to make changes in order to win, irregardless away or home match. Can someone enlighten me, why we can't make 3 successful passes in a row in any match? Coach or player issue?

I'm quite happy with the result and knewing that many new players still in blending process etc. But watching 2nd half of yesterday match was a nightmare for me ,and mancini post match saying we have a fair chance to win as well? DAI DAI DAI

 

[Pharaoh]

Slept on it, and I'm still fucking bitter we didn't win this game. Our finishing/final ball is so god damn bad it's infuriating. Icardi should've gotten on the end of at least 2-3 balls that were in his vicinity.

I had no problems with our midfield to be quite honest. Melo & Medel did well, Brozovic had his chances, but our frontline needs to get their shit together. Cuz right now we're holding our own defensively (excluding that viola fiasco). I wanna see our 20 goal scorer to get his shit together. He's gotten better service this year too so there are no excuses for him to not be scoring.

 

[Javier'sSon]

Our finishing/final ball is so god damn bad it's infuriating

Icardi should've gotten on the end of at least 2-3 balls that were in his vicinity.

He's gotten better service this year too so there are no excuses for him to not be scoring.

:chan:

 

[Pharaoh]

Wtf you channing for? There were plenty of chances that were within his vicinity that he just didn't get to. Either 1 step too short or he was outpositioned by Barzagli

 

[Harpsabu]

Just home from Italy and the match and a few things I noticed.

1. icardi is seriously limited. Im now on the side of, of we get a good bid for him, sell him. Anything going forward, when it got to icardi he looked so clumsy and awkward and usually messed the play up. It felt like there were quite a few in the stadium thinking the same. Everything was coming through Jovetic, any good inter did was always going to have him involved. Brozovic should have been off at about 70 minutes. Him and santon were scared stiff of Pogba, and he especially lost the ball a lot before he had that good run towards the end which now is why he's getting praised. There were a lot of Kondogbia shouts just before that run because everyone had lost patience with how much he lost it. Inter did a terrible job of pushing Cuadrado back. I feel like inter should have say perisic just behind him because there was always a gap, and her have been forced back.

Lastly, juve fans were pretty much louder the full game. Weirdly. Was slightly disappointed about that.