Inter's Financial Situation

[Jnr]

Vecino, Nainggolan, and Mario all come off our books next summer (2022). The only "dead weight" left at that point will be Dalbert and Lazaro. Things should be better soon.

Radja will be gone. There's no way we are gonna be 'good guy Inter' for 3 straight loans until he expires. We want 5M atleast.

Joao Mario supposed to be done dealio @8M

We will try to sell Vecino, no new contract for him imo.

Theres lots to do for Beppe. Important summer.

 

[Luka]

But it means signing no more shit like Vecino/Nainggolan/Dalbert/Lazaro. Any transfers need to be highly considered, likely to be coming into their prime in 3-5 years time, aand likely to be substantially increasing capital value.

No top club can do that. It's impossible. You will be happy if we get 5 out of 8 transfers right. Those players are bound to happen for any team.

As to the other financial part, that would be understandable if it was pre 2010. Again, for the past 10 years we see lesser mercari activity overall, with increased revenues, and after all those 10 years of stuffing fdp down our throats, we have to dismantle scudetto winning team.

What those 10 years were about then?! Again, if it wasn't for covid, looks like we would still need a huge cash inflow from abroad. But fdp prevented clubs from doing that. So what would we do if there was no pandemic? Out of CL again due to huge losses?

That makes no sense. Eitherr our management is totally incompetent, or fishy owner stuff and I don't sway more to the first option.

Plus, shouldn't other clubs be in a deeper shit than we? Yet I don't hear any fire sales over there. WHAT THE FUCK. I didn't wait 10 years to get back to square one. Ever since sunning got to power, they said we need to get back to balance and every year was suppose to get us to that goal. And after that time, winning scudetto, new sponsor which should bring more money finally, more money due to revenues and prize money, 300mln loan and the sale of who knows who.

Again, WHAT, THE, FUCK.

 

[andrei]

No top club can do that. It's impossible. You will be happy if we get 5 out of 8 transfers right. Those players are bound to happen for any team.

As to the other financial part, that would be understandable if it was pre 2010. Again, for the past 10 years we see lesser mercari activity overall, with increased revenues, and after all those 10 years of stuffing fdp down our throats, we have to dismantle scudetto winning team.

What those 10 years were about then?! Again, if it wasn't for covid, looks like we would still need a huge cash inflow from abroad. But fdp prevented clubs from doing that. So what would we do if there was no pandemic? Out of CL again due to huge losses?

That makes no sense. Eitherr our management is totally incompetent, or fishy owner stuff and I don't sway more to the first option.

Plus, shouldn't other clubs be in a deeper shit than we? Yet I don't hear any fire sales over there. WHAT THE FUCK. I didn't wait 10 years to get back to square one. Ever since sunning got to power, they said we need to get back to balance and every year was suppose to get us to that goal. And after that time, winning scudetto, new sponsor which should bring more money finally, more money due to revenues and prize money, 300mln loan and the sale of who knows who.

Again, WHAT, THE, FUCK.

Man, you are one of the older members of this forum!! I understand your concern and is logic. But for someone who know shit about football, he would believe Inter before 2010 was something like Man United under Fergusson. Aside from that spell between 2007-2010 with Calciopoli when Juventus and Milan were decapitated, we won in 1989, 1980 and 1971. That was all. And between manny bitter years. Even in Moratti era.

 

[.h.]

No top club can do that. It's impossible. You will be happy if we get 5 out of 8 transfers right. Those players are bound to happen for any team.

As to the other financial part, that would be understandable if it was pre 2010. Again, for the past 10 years we see lesser mercari activity overall, with increased revenues, and after all those 10 years of stuffing fdp down our throats, we have to dismantle scudetto winning team.

What those 10 years were about then?! Again, if it wasn't for covid, looks like we would still need a huge cash inflow from abroad. But fdp prevented clubs from doing that. So what would we do if there was no pandemic? Out of CL again due to huge losses?

That makes no sense. Eitherr our management is totally incompetent, or fishy owner stuff and I don't sway more to the first option.

Plus, shouldn't other clubs be in a deeper shit than we? Yet I don't hear any fire sales over there. WHAT THE FUCK. I didn't wait 10 years to get back to square one. Ever since sunning got to power, they said we need to get back to balance and every year was suppose to get us to that goal. And after that time, winning scudetto, new sponsor which should bring more money finally, more money due to revenues and prize money, 300mln loan and the sale of who knows who.

Again, WHAT, THE, FUCK.

the problem for us is thatt we were losing a lot of money even before covid, and the loan+option/obligation strucutre meant, like Milana now, we were spending next year's money to build this year's team.

We've had a alot of mercato activity in the last decade. Most of it wasted. For the revenues this club brings in, bringing players like Kondogbia, Joao Mario, Nainggolan, Vecino, Ansaldi, Jovetic, Murillo, Candreva, Gabigoal, Gagliardini, Murillo, Santon, Melo, Dodo...

We could go on and on. We;'ve wasted a ALOT of money.

re the transfer success rate, yes, I agree, I'm just stating the facts. We cana get heallthier, it just means our bigger transfers need to be guaranteed to work out. Look at what we did the las tcouple of seasons - aside from Sensi andd Lazaro, they've al been much more successful. I'd rather drop 50-60m on a sure thing than 30-40m on a risky one.


This is why Marotta is key for us imho.

 

[Il Drago]

We can blame everything on covid as much as we want but we aren't the only club in the world that suffered from covid. I don't see other ownerships turning their clubs into a supermarket. Our biggest problem is Chinese government restrictions. And that's why there's no future with Suning.

I am grateful for everything they have done for the club. Increasing revenues. Bringing Marotta and Conte. Building the squad that won Scudetto. Even their plans for the new stadium. But now there's no future with them. Suning project is dead. Our best hope is they find a buyer for the club soon.

 

[.h.]

We can blame everything on covid as much as we want but we aren't the only club in the world that suffered from covid. I don't see other ownerships turning their clubs into a supermarket. Our biggest problem is Chinese government restrictions. And that's why there's no future with Suning.

I am grateful for everything they have done for the club. Increasing revenues. Bringing Marotta and Conte. Building the squad that won Scudetto. Even their plans for the new stadium. But now there's no future with them. Suning project is dead. Our best hope is they find a buyer for the club soon.

Milan are underwritten by a hedge fund - they lose more money than we do, but Elliott writes blank cheques for them.

Barca and Real have mitigated a lot of the COVID impact by... oh, yeah, their players taking salary cuts. Guess what our players outright refused to do? Selfish pricks

For English clubs, matchday revenue is a comparatively small revenue stream. Liverpool, for example, only lost about 40-45mil this year.

German clubs too - they rely heavily on commercial.


Italy is in the perfect intersection of getting fucked by this, and there arent many big clubs in Italy who rely heavily on matchday to keep themselves going. So it's basically us, Juve, Roma, Milan? Maybe Napoli?

And look whats happening there..

Roma probably will have a lot of sales this summer, they've been financially fucked for a long time and missing out on the CL hurts, as does appointing Mourinho.

Juve will have to sell Ronaldo, and probably a few players on top. Not purely for sporting reasons but financial too. Albeit Exor can continue to underwrite them anyway.




So, yeah, thats why we are where we are. We're in the danger zone where matchday is literally make or break for his club. For other bigger clubs, its a bit irrelevant (60m on 800m who gives a shit? You just spend less in the summer), whereas 60m on 350m when you spend like a 400m club is a huge impact.



Dont get me wrong, the chinese restrictions prevent us from being in the same situation of Milan by being underwritten by our owners, if they were so inclined. But, still, you're basically praying for unicorns to underwrite 250mil euros of losses in these times without being bothered by it. Milan will ultimately get fucked by Elliott too, I'm sure of it, when they want to monetize their asset.

 

[andrei]

the problem for us is thatt we were losing a lot of money even before covid, and the loan+option/obligation strucutre meant, like Milana now, we were spending next year's money to build this year's team.

We've had a alot of mercato activity in the last decade. Most of it wasted. For the revenues this club brings in, bringing players like Kondogbia, Joao Mario, Nainggolan, Vecino, Ansaldi, Jovetic, Murillo, Candreva, Gabigoal, Gagliardini, Murillo, Santon, Melo, Dodo...

We could go on and on. We;'ve wasted a ALOT of money.

re the transfer success rate, yes, I agree, I'm just stating the facts. We cana get heallthier, it just means our bigger transfers need to be guaranteed to work out. Look at what we did the las tcouple of seasons - aside from Sensi andd Lazaro, they've al been much more successful. I'd rather drop 50-60m on a sure thing than 30-40m on a risky one.


This is why Marotta is key for us imho.

The other problem is with selling players. In the last 10 years how many players we sell for good money? Aside from Kova, Kondog and Icardi, I remember none. And when you compare with all the shit we bought, there is no surprise that our amortisation bill is a huge pain in the ass.

Since Marotta came we were waay better: only Lazaro was a fuckup up. Sensi was a bad luck with the injuries, because the quality is there. Hopefully he has this bad spell behind him. I remember Thiago Motta was an ticking bomb with injuries at Barca and Atletico. Since his Genoa days, no more injuries and he became an excellent player. Maybe Sensi will surprise us in a good way.

 

[.h.]

The other problem is with selling players. In the last 10 years how many players we sell for good money? Aside from Kova, Kondog and Icardi, I remember none. And when you compare with all the shit we bought, there is no surprise that our amortisation bill is a huge pain in the ass.

Since Marotta came we were waay better: only Lazaro was a fuckup up. Sensi was a bad luck with the injuries, because the quality is there. Hopefully he has this bad spell behind him. I remember Thiago Motta was an ticking bomb with injuries at Barca and Atletico. Since his Genoa days, no more injuries and he became an excellent player. Maybe Sensi will surprise us in a good way.

yeah exaactly, good shout. We've been doing loan+options on our players so we foot the amortisation bill and then we reduce their cost to the end club. Things have been a disaster for us on the market in the last few years.

Even Kdog didnt go for good money, a bit over half what we paid for him



gaabigol was a great example of that

 

[brehme1989]

We can blame everything on covid as much as we want but we aren't the only club in the world that suffered from covid. I don't see other ownerships turning their clubs into a supermarket. Our biggest problem is Chinese government restrictions. And that's why there's no future with Suning.

I am grateful for everything they have done for the club. Increasing revenues. Bringing Marotta and Conte. Building the squad that won Scudetto. Even their plans for the new stadium. But now there's no future with them. Suning project is dead. Our best hope is they find a buyer for the club soon.

The restrictions are an issue only because of our owners.

- Zhang is a bit of an outcast in the Communist Party at the moment, he blamed them for his bad investments.
- Suning was hurt because they're operating in an industry that correlates with the market. If there's a crisis, they're in shit, if the economy is booming, they do well.
- The restrictions apply to anyone that Zhang had in his wider circle as a potential sponsor. They have no international connections worth anything, so all they could do was get mostly Chinese companies to sponsor us. This is where the restrictions are of a concern. If Suning had a better network and weren't so attached to the CPC, others wouldn't consider giving money for Inter as a gesture towards China but more of a business thing like it works with normal clubs.

Some companies avoid us because it is seen as dealing with China, others avoid us because they do want to avoid dealing with China and others avoid us because they don't trust our Chinese owners (lots of recent examples of cooked books and other similar stuff, even by NYSE listed companies).

 

[Luka]

the problem for us is thatt we were losing a lot of money even before covid, and the loan+option/obligation strucutre meant, like Milana now, we were spending next year's money to build this year's team.

We've had a alot of mercato activity in the last decade. Most of it wasted. For the revenues this club brings in, bringing players like Kondogbia, Joao Mario, Nainggolan, Vecino, Ansaldi, Jovetic, Murillo, Candreva, Gabigoal, Gagliardini, Murillo, Santon, Melo, Dodo...

We could go on and on. We;'ve wasted a ALOT of money.

re the transfer success rate, yes, I agree, I'm just stating the facts. We cana get heallthier, it just means our bigger transfers need to be guaranteed to work out. Look at what we did the las tcouple of seasons - aside from Sensi andd Lazaro, they've al been much more successful. I'd rather drop 50-60m on a sure thing than 30-40m on a risky one.


This is why Marotta is key for us imho.

First of all, let me just say I'm not attacking you. From your responses it doesn't seem like you've taken that that way, but I just wanted to be sure.

Now to the issue. I know all the ups and downs, the money wasted etc. If it would have been "no ffp" agenda since 2010, then I would understand. If it would have been "ffp" agenda since 2010 and then say we're down by 70mln from tickets and we need that 70mln or something close to that, even double that to prepare for next season, I would understand. If it would be, we need 150mln to cover for past and coming season and then 100mln for transfers and we need 250mln loan, I would understand. What I don't understand is ffp down our throat since forever, revenues going up year after year (except for last year due to tickets, but again it's -70mln), expenses going down (we don't have multiple players around 10mln a year mark like we had many years ago), we miss 70mln from tickets, and for some "reason" we need 250mln loan AND sell 1 if not more our major players. THAT'S what I don't understand and I don't think anybody on this forum, without being an inside person who actually knows our finances, can explain. I have no idea how did it happen, when "ffp mantra year after year" and our lower mercato expactations should PREVENT US FROM SUCH DIRE MEASURES.

As to delayed payments for transfers, yes I know about it. But it's not like we spend 300mln every year divided for next 5 years. If that was the case year after year, I would understand that. But we spend next years money, this year, which means this year should be no different as we just spend next years money. No problem with covid here as we DID NOT BUY ANYBODY YET for "next years money".

What's more likely to me is to sell one player to finance our mercato. But that's different topic, and that's something you only do if you get an offer you cannot refuse. Like 220mln for Neymar's clause, or 50mln plus Eto'o for Ibrahimovic and you buy Motta and Milito with that money. I can accept a sale like that for insane conditions (like getting 3 first time players with 1 possibly a flop for other 1st time player), but if we sell say Hakimi for 70mln, who do we get? De Paul for 40mln and then what?

Going with what others said, the problem with Suning is exactly the state they are in now. For all we know, those restrictions might continue on for next 20 years. We could get buy for a year or two. We cannot get by for next 10 years, not for a club like ours. If Suning can't put cash in to our club when there is a need for it due to some extreme circumstances (like covid times) then we might very well be owned by a bum on a street.

I'm grateful for the improvements they did over few years, by getting us Marotta (this guy is golden and I'm worried about times when he's gone) and Conte, but as things stand NOW (?), a year or two more of that and I'm sooooooooo for changing the owner or it's downhill slope, and quick! It would be good to be self sustainable, but the fact is, other clubs where there are no restrictions can manage through the covid (roughly), and we cannot due to our owners being limited.

Btw, the ticket prices in premier league are insane. No way that it affected italian clubs more. But EPL has shit ton of money from TV rights which helped, but that's beside the point.

 

[.h.]

The problem isnt so much that matchday is a bigger or smaller part for us - Inter and Juve's revenues are about 14% from matchday, Barca goes up to 18% - the problem is that our revenus are just generally shit anyway for a top tier club. We're already losing money heavily, so losing another 14% of our revenue just hurts more. If you're a club in profit, you can take the loss on your matchday revenues without too much impact (no shareholder dividends, no marquee signing, but no further cuts).


You look at Barca, for example, if they cana defer Messi's wage for one season alone that pretty much covers most of their matchday revenue.


I go back to the point - our players wont even make a small sacrifice. Disgraceful.





More hoistically, the problem we've had is that we've tried to be competitive in the last decade. If we hadnt bothered, instead focused on buying a squad like Sassuolo to become a solid mid-tier club for a few seasons, we'd actually have been better off financially. Instead, we were putting in 6th tier performances but paying for 2nd tier players who failed. We;d have been better off buying 6th tier players, normalising our cost basis, and then investing

 

[andrei]

Spot on!

Through the banter era we were like an aristocrat in misery. We didn't have the money or the competence to be a big club but we act like one. With financial consequences. Have we made in 2012, after Gasp and Ranieri fiasco with losing UCL revenue, a real reset, a real year, we could have been way better financially.
Either becoming like Sassuollo (I mean player wise and their salaries) or Roma way, we could have reduced the banter era with a few years.

Roma and specifically Sabatini made what most of guys here screaming not to do. They sold their best players year after year and invest the money in new players. One year Lamela, then Marquinhos, then Benatia, Pjanic - all sold. The result: Sabatini built a team capable to fight Allegri's Juventus until the very end to scudetto. 87 points achieved Spalletti with that team, the most in Roma history. A team made under the FFP, which we blamed for our incompetence.
The vital difference: Sabatini knew when to sold and more importantly,which player to buy. Big difference to our mappets like Branca or Ausillio.

 

[Il Drago]

Spot on!

Through the banter era we were like an aristocrat in misery. We didn't have the money or the competence to be a big club but we act like one. With financial consequences. Have we made in 2012, after Gasp and Ranieri fiasco with losing UCL revenue, a real reset, a real year, we could have been way better financially.
Either becoming like Sassuollo (I mean player wise and their salaries) or Roma way, we could have reduced the banter era with a few years.

Roma and specifically Sabatini made what most of guys here screaming not to do. They sold their best players year after year and invest the money in new players. One year Lamela, then Marquinhos, then Benatia, Pjanic - all sold. The result: Sabatini built a team capable to fight Allegri's Juventus until the very end to scudetto. 87 points achieved Spalletti with that team, the most in Roma history. A team made under the FFP, which we blamed for our incompetence.
The vital difference: Sabatini knew when to sold and more importantly,which player to buy. Big difference to our mappets like Branca or Ausillio.

True. A good example of implementing that model in Italy was Roma under Sabatini. But where exactly did that policy lead Roma? Nowhere really. Their best achivements were some top 4 finishes and a fluke CL semi-final. They never really challenged for the title. And it's not like they massively improved the club from a financial point of view. The financial situation remains bad and Palotta eventually had to sell the club.

This type of model could work in Germany or France but not in Italy. If you implement a Roma type of model, then you need to forget about being competitive.

 

[.h.]

Tbh inter had the benefits of sponsorship revenue etc. Had we taken a small number of years of intentional pain we would have still had the financial basis to go forwards. Unfortunately with the approach we did take it was a half arsed attempt at staying competitive. I guess we will never know what would have happened but maybe Suning for example wouldn't have bought us, and clearly their investment has been the main cause of our rejuvenation.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Excellent discussion here. The issue is indeed we've piled on the costs in these past few years. We've pumped the costs up, making losses every year, heavy losses. Add covid, external shock to the system, and the clusterfuck is here.

I'm not as optimistic as browha (.h) with how well we can do with the deadwood thing, but when we add that new main sponsor and can hopefully get the sponsorship game going on better, it should help in 1-2 years time. Of course we need the ticket revenue soon.

 

[.h.]

if its any consolation, basically anytime this decade I've said 'We coiuld do something like THIS to sort out mess out', the club's gone and done the exact opposite, so while I think things could be achievable, they're unlikely to be actually achieved



One thing I'd stress again - Milan lost more money than us in the ast 3 seasons. They posted -194m result in 19/20. Now, with CL revenue again things will definitely get better - they might be about profit neutral this coming season (21/22), but I think they're unikely to repeat their performances from last year again - relying on getting penalties isnt a long term tactic. Ibra is on the cusp, and Donna is clearly causing a downgrade.

At some point, its inevitable Elliott will lose interest in the club. the interesting thing is how much they'd sell it for. They lent 303m euros in the first instance and have underwritten something like 400-500mil of losses. If you were gonna spend 850m on a team would you rather spend it on Inter or AC Milan you tell me? And that's just to recoup the outlay - the net equity is probabaly a few hundred mill ontop of that as well?

 

[andrei]

True. A good example of implementing that model in Italy was Roma under Sabatini. But where exactly did that policy lead Roma? Nowhere really. Their best achivements were some top 4 finishes and a fluke CL semi-final. They never really challenged for the title. And it's not like they massively improved the club from a financial point of view. The financial situation remains bad and Palotta eventually had to sell the club.

This type of model could work in Germany or France but not in Italy. If you implement a Roma type of model, then you need to forget about being competitive.

Roma model was not the scope but a mean to come out of financial misery while beeing competitive. Imagine we could have had in 2017 a squad similar with Roma with Suning money back than and without FFP. they came out of FFP one year earlier. We could have been in a much better position now and financial way healthier.
And Roma fucked masively up with Monchi. He sell Salah, Rudiger, Paredes and than Allison but never was able to replace them (Kardsdorf, Kluivert, Pastore all where shit, Under semishit). And Monchi was considered back than something like a Guru - for Roma he was pretty toxic. He throw them back in misery.

 

[kurt0411]

The sad thing is you cannot be considered a top club if you don’t have money to spend. The history that we acquired we acquired by spending big. Every top club has done the same at some point. People might call it an exaggeration but I’m not just worried about this season, I’m worried about the future. Let’s cut the shit we’re not even going to be able to compete with the likes of Leicester, Wolves and Aston Villa in terms of money spent and it won’t be long before Juve and Milan in particular will open up a massive gap on us

 

[Fapuccino]

Well guys, whoring ourselves to find a new sugar daddy is much better than ESL right...?

 

[.h.]

10 times out of 10.

the esl kills the sporting merit of the game. You can go and spend all the money you want, but if you cant build a team, its irrelevant. Why miss out on the heart racing moment of asking yourself if Juve wont make the CL cut on the last day of the season, or if Juve will fail to get past R16 again?

That's the whole point of Sports. Without that, this shit is entertainment, not sports.