Italian Serie A 2015/2016

Scudetto winner?


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Fapuccino

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Shaun, funds come as a result of winning too. It's a two way street.

It's not the funds' fault that Napoli choked both in EL and Serie A in crucial moments, and it's not funds why Rube choked the last 15-20 minutes against Bayern while being 2 goals up away from home.
 

victor_inter

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Well what do you expect from italian teams in europe? Roma are perennial chokers. Napoli are just pathetic. Losing at hkme in europe to focus on the scudetto yet they somehow managed to mess up their chances of winning a title by being inconsistent.
Champions league need inter and milan back. Cant trust any of the other fodder italian teams to help improve the coefficients points of italia. In saying that, both inter and milan need ample amount of funds to compete because they are clearly not ready yet.
 

bandiera

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Well what do you expect from italian teams in europe? Roma are perennial chokers. Napoli are just pathetic. Losing at hkme in europe to focus on the scudetto yet they somehow managed to mess up their chances of winning a title by being inconsistent.
Champions league need inter and milan back. Cant trust any of the other fodder italian teams to help improve the coefficients points of italia. In saying that, both inter and milan need ample amount of funds to compete because they are clearly not ready yet.

roma have perennially choked, they are not perennial chokers. roma lack a winning mentality which is a result of garcia's lack of a winning mentality, and their strikers are chokers. if they signed conte and icardi, would they lack a winning mentality and would their strikers choke? they also stepped up vs real, and people forget their very decent away draw vs barcelona in the group stages.

this is such a self serving argument. why dont roma and napoli need the ample funds to better compete? they are the better teams, they currently have the higher ceiling in italy and in europe. our history means little to our present and our future relative to what we're talking about. we choked against wolfsburg, the same team napoli raped last season. or the celtic game for that matter where we took a shit on our 3-0 lead. not even going to talk about marseille or schalke.
 
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Black Knight

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I shudder to think how we'd perform in CL next year if we made 3rd place this year. Can you imagine us vs Bayern, rather than Juve? :yao:
 

ScottishInterista

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Tbh us vs a top seed makes me ball up in tears. Also Roma are the perennial chokers, yet how many goals have we conceded in the last 15 minutes of game time
 

victor_inter

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roma have perennially choked, they are not perennial chokers. roma lack a winning mentality which is a result of garcia's lack of a winning mentality, and their strikers are chokers. if they signed conte and icardi, would they lack a winning mentality and would their strikers choke? they also stepped up vs real, and people forget their very decent away draw vs barcelona in the group stages.

this is such a self serving argument. why dont roma and napoli need the ample funds to better compete? they are the better teams, they currently have the higher ceiling in italy and in europe. our history means little to our present and our future relative to what we're talking about. we choked against wolfsburg, the same team napoli raped last season. or the celtic game for that matter where we took a shit on our 3-0 lead. not even going to talk about marseille or schalke.

You answered the question yourself. Even with funds and the right coach, they just dont have the mentality to play in ucl. Its ingrained into their brains that roma will succumb to pressure. They dont have the dna to compete. Ucl is a magical competition.

- - - Updated - - -

I can guarantee you that we would fare better than roma in the champions league despite boasting a weaker side. Thats the difference in mentality i am referring to.
 
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Javier'sSon

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But why do some people assume that our mentality now is as tough as it was years ago? I really don't get that. Look at our results, performances and setbacks the last few years domestically and in Europe and where the fuck do people get the idea that we're tougher than others in mentality?!

Things do change.
 

victor_inter

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I can guarantee you that we would never get embarrassed by big teams like roma. Atleast we would make it appear competitive. Do not compare that third rated fodder club called roma to my beloved inter. We will bounce back. I am certainly sure about it.
 

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All this overblown talk about mentality and DNA. Mentality is not insignificant, but don't confuse it with simple quality.

We like to look at our glory days in CL and think about how good some of those sides were. Then we look to smaller Italian clubs in the competition and scoff at how easily they crumble. And for some reason, we point to mentality as the cause. Why? I suspect that it is a form of denial – if mentality/history is the key component, it doesn't matter that sides like Roma and Napoli have caught up or almost caught up to Inter and Milan in terms of player quality. Clubs like Inter and Milan will always do better, regardless of squad quality, because of history. It lets us fantasize that if only we were in Europe, we would give it a proper go. Never mind evidence to the contrary (Schalke? OM? Wolfsburg?) – those are dismissed as one-off circumstances ('if only Mancini didn't play Carrizo').

I'm not saying mentality is nothing. But the permanence of mentality is a false notion. Teams like Inter and Bayern used to be something of a joke among European teams – they had the resources to seriously compete but rarely did so. But Mourinho and Heynckes came along and showed that Inter and Bayern could be winners. The club's history didn't change. The club's DNA (whatever that means) didn't change. It's simpler than these abstract concepts. The coaches and the players changed. That changed the club's mentality – and their fortunes.
 

victor_inter

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I am not saying that a better coach wont help a team achieve their objectives like mourinho did in our case and to a lesser extent, mancini as well when he helped inter win the scudetto for 3 consecutive years. My point is that roma will still under-perform like they always have even if they were give the best resources including a world class coach. Their frail mentality is just one of the many reasons why they will fail regardless whether they have the best resources or not. It could also be the presence of totti in roma that is holding them back. He thinks of himself as above the club and that mentality affects their teamwork when he continues to play for roma. Even when they had chances to win the scudetto back in 2008-2010 period, they blew it by choking when it matters. They had a great squad back then which was comparable to our championship winninh team and a top coach too. Yet they managed to mess up their chances of winning a title by failing to deal with the pressure of playing in critical games. I cant really describe the exact reason but i personally think that they are a team that is capable of overachieving when they dont have to deal with pressure. But when they are required to compete for success/titles, they capitulate quite comically.

For example, take a look at our 3-2 win in munich away from home a few years ago. Do you really expect roma to ever achieve a result like that. Granted we had a stronger team back then but that bayern side were far too overpowered and a lot of their top players were in peak condition. Yet we stopped them. Can you ever see inter lose 7-1 on aggregate to any team?? I dont think so. Not even our current team which is probably one of our weakest side in years would lose so embarrassingly.
Yea we did lose to arsenal at home 5-1 and and we also got smashed by wolfsburg. But those were blips that could happen to any team. Conversely, roma have earned the title of being internationally recognized as the perennial whipping boys of ucl. You cant possibly lose by an aggregate score of 4 plus goals every season and proclaim that they dont have the right resources to compete as an excuse. Even lesser recognized teams with much limited funds have managed to compete and lose with dignity. Its just preposterous. Roma are a disgrace.
 
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Batista

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I can guarantee you that we would never get embarrassed by big teams like roma. Atleast we would make it appear competitive. Do not compare that third rated fodder club called roma to my beloved inter. We will bounce back. I am certainly sure about it.

 

Ziyad

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3-0
5-1 when we changed coach and had a player outside
aggregTe 5-4 against an Arsenal team that didn't lose a match in EPL
 

Caecuban

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Just some data about Juve being unreachable:
Last year Juve won Serie A by a 17 point margin vs second place Roma and a total gap of 28 points to 6th place Genoa
This year Juve is currently ahead by 3 points from second place Napoli and a total gap of 21 points to 6th place Milan
 

Wings

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I am not saying that a better coach wont help a team achieve their objectives like mourinho did in our case and to a lesser extent, mancini as well when he helped inter win the scudetto for 3 consecutive years. My point is that roma will still under-perform like they always have even if they were give the best resources including a world class coach. Their frail mentality is just one of the many reasons why they will fail regardless whether they have the best resources or not. It could also be the presence of totti in roma that is holding them back. He thinks of himself as above the club and that mentality affects their teamwork when he continues to play for roma. Even when they had chances to win the scudetto back in 2008-2010 period, they blew it by choking when it matters. They had a great squad back then which was comparable to our championship winninh team and a top coach too. Yet they managed to mess up their chances of winning a title by failing to deal with the pressure of playing in critical games. I cant really describe the exact reason but i personally think that they are a team that is capable of overachieving when they dont have to deal with pressure. But when they are required to compete for success/titles, they capitulate quite comically.

For example, take a look at our 3-2 win in munich away from home a few years ago. Do you really expect roma to ever achieve a result like that. Granted we had a stronger team back then but that bayern side were far too overpowered and a lot of their top players were in peak condition. Yet we stopped them. Can you ever see inter lose 7-1 on aggregate to any team?? I dont think so. Not even our current team which is probably one of our weakest side in years would lose so embarrassingly.
Yea we did lose to arsenal at home 5-1 and and we also got smashed by wolfsburg. But those were blips that could happen to any team. Conversely, roma have earned the title of being internationally recognized as the perennial whipping boys of ucl. You cant possibly lose by an aggregate score of 4 plus goals every season and proclaim that they dont have the right resources to compete as an excuse. Even lesser recognized teams with much limited funds have managed to compete and lose with dignity. Its just preposterous. Roma are a disgrace.

But that's the argument. Roma didn't have a world-class squad or coach back then, let alone comparable to ours. (Roma's squad wasn't even in the top three at the time – it was definitely us, Milan, and Juventus). Yes, in that season, they came very close to winning the title but didn't. But that's to be expected. In the long run, if you could somehow play that season over and over again with the same teams and coaches, Roma would win the league very few times, because Ranieri and Spalletti and most of their players simply weren't title-winning caliber. 2009–10 was odd in that Roma had a period of absolute awfulness under Spalletti and an amazing run of form under Ranieri, but in the end it evened out. Why did they keep getting whipped in CL? I suspect similar reasons – their squad simply wasn't good enough.

The hypothetical you're talking of – if Roma had world class squad and coach – is simply that, a hypothetical. Just about every circumstance you can think of when Roma choked is also a circumstance when Roma had less quality than their opponents. The two can't be separated.

I don't see the logic in saying that things like Arsenal or Wolfsburg are just normal occurrences/special circumstances for us but endemic of a pattern for Roma. Regardless of whether we were blown out or not, we were underachievers in Europe, and accusations of mentality issues weren't unheard of (even at Zanetti, no less). Did Roma falter in Europe more than we did? Probably, but that's par for the course. We had a better squad back than Roma, so of course we would lose less.
 

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All this overblown talk about mentality and DNA. Mentality is not insignificant, but don't confuse it with simple quality.

We like to look at our glory days in CL and think about how good some of those sides were. Then we look to smaller Italian clubs in the competition and scoff at how easily they crumble. And for some reason, we point to mentality as the cause. Why? I suspect that it is a form of denial – if mentality/history is the key component, it doesn't matter that sides like Roma and Napoli have caught up or almost caught up to Inter and Milan in terms of player quality. Clubs like Inter and Milan will always do better, regardless of squad quality, because of history. It lets us fantasize that if only we were in Europe, we would give it a proper go. Never mind evidence to the contrary (Schalke? OM? Wolfsburg?) – those are dismissed as one-off circumstances ('if only Mancini didn't play Carrizo').

I'm not saying mentality is nothing. But the permanence of mentality is a false notion. Teams like Inter and Bayern used to be something of a joke among European teams – they had the resources to seriously compete but rarely did so. But Mourinho and Heynckes came along and showed that Inter and Bayern could be winners. The club's history didn't change. The club's DNA (whatever that means) didn't change. It's simpler than these abstract concepts. The coaches and the players changed. That changed the club's mentality – and their fortunes.

The best post of 2016 so far. Besides that post from enjoy in the last match thread where he posted a video of the goal which didn't actually show the goal.
 

victor_inter

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But that's the argument. Roma didn't have a world-class squad or coach back then, let alone comparable to ours. (Roma's squad wasn't even in the top three at the time – it was definitely us, Milan, and Juventus). Yes, in that season, they came very close to winning the title but didn't. But that's to be expected. In the long run, if you could somehow play that season over and over again with the same teams and coaches, Roma would win the league very few times, because Ranieri and Spalletti and most of their players simply weren't title-winning caliber. 2009–10 was odd in that Roma had a period of absolute awfulness under Spalletti and an amazing run of form under Ranieri, but in the end it evened out. Why did they keep getting whipped in CL? I suspect similar reasons – their squad simply wasn't good enough.

The hypothetical you're talking of – if Roma had world class squad and coach – is simply that, a hypothetical. Just about every circumstance you can think of when Roma choked is also a circumstance when Roma had less quality than their opponents. The two can't be separated.

I don't see the logic in saying that things like Arsenal or Wolfsburg are just normal occurrences/special circumstances for us but endemic of a pattern for Roma. Regardless of whether we were blown out or not, we were underachievers in Europe, and accusations of mentality issues weren't unheard of (even at Zanetti, no less). Did Roma falter in Europe more than we did? Probably, but that's par for the course. We had a better squad back than Roma, so of course we would lose less.

Yea i get what you are trying to say.
But roma dint exactly perform well in the champions league even when they had the best team in italy back in 2000-01. All their players were in the form of their lives and they had a stacked team with a great coach. Totti was at his peak. Batistuta etc. Yet they capitulated in the champions league during the season after they earned the scudetto title. They couldnt even get out of the group stages. Similar situation in 2004 or 05. Not sure which year exactly but they had a relatively easy group and yet they finished last.
What about the comical choke against arsenal. They lost on penalties. Had a team that is more or less even in comparison with arsenal. They failed to progress. The choke factor certainly appears to be pervasive and entrenched in roma's mentality when it comes down to crucial games.
 

Fapuccino

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I agree mostly with what Wings says, but not fully because there is also a "permanence" component to mentality. There is short, medium, and long term mentality. Short term mentality might come into play after momentum shifts within a game. Medium term mentality is when you're on a streak be it a few games or a few seasons.

And some clubs have a history of choking in certain competitions, even after players and coaches are changed. Winning is a culture. If there has never been an air of a winning culture in Europe within a club, BOTH inside and outside of the playing field, it is hard to break through that barrier, although not impossible.
 

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Athletico broke that barrier with grit and determination.
 
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