Italian Serie A 2021/2022

.h.

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I'm pretty fucking certain Genoa didn't pay us 19m€ for Pinamonti in cash. :D
tbh, if they notionally paid us 19m for him, there's a payment schedule behind that, which could easily be contractually nullified when we re-signed him.
 

Jusef

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Auditors aren’t after Juve for the small valuations. It’s the big ones, like the Pjanic-Arthur swap. The other small valuation are used to show pattern of behaviour.

I still think there are many hurdles since in the case of Barca - Juve swap deal, the parties are acting at arm’s length.

But it was obvious for the world to see that Barca-Juve directors were acting in concert- i.e. they both wanted to take advantage of a fiscal/tax benefit, and the business considerations were non-existent.

In many jurisdictions this is a red flag. Was surprised at the time that this didn’t get more traction.
 

Harpsabu

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La republicca apparently throwing mud at inter now too

Saying we have 5 transactions with genoa that are dodgy. Pinamonti buy back and radu buy back. Operation totalling over 70m euro with only 5m changing hands
 

diamen

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so basically buy-back clause is illegal?
 

Il Drago

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La republicca apparently throwing mud at inter now too

Saying we have 5 transactions with genoa that are dodgy. Pinamonti buy back and radu buy back. Operation totalling over 70m euro with only 5m changing hands
For those who aren't aware of it, La Repubblica are Agnelli owned. It's the usual argument of Juventini that was so popular during Calciopoli. Everyone does it so no one should be punished.
 

vex

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I wouldn't be surprised one bit if there was something shady in all of those primavera deals ausilio made, let's just hope fucker wasn't wired or some shit like that :lol:

As I understood, that's the most damning evidence against juve and agnelli, his people while doing those deals literally made a comment "the only thing worse than this was the calciopoli", and it's caught on tape.:lol:
 

.h.

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I cant comment from a legal perspective, but the plusvalenza deals for Pinamonti (etc) are as suspect IMHO. Its more grey area as there was a cash transaction, hich just happened to be folllowed by another cash transaction, rather than non-cash transactions in the case of player swaps.
 

Il Drago

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I wouldn't be surprised one bit if there was something shady in all of those primavera deals ausilio made, let's just hope fucker wasn't wired or some shit like that :lol:

As I understood, that's the most damning evidence against juve and agnelli, his people while doing those deals literally made a comment "the only thing worse than this was the calciopoli", and it's caught on tape.:lol:
But how is this possible? I always thought Calciopoli was orchestrated by Moratti and Facchetti and Juve and Moggi were always innocent. 🤔
 

.h.

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But how is this possible? I always thought Calciopoli was orchestrated by Moratti and Facchetti and Juve and Moggi were always innocent. 🤔
in terms of the witch hunt maybe? :D
 

vex

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But how is this possible? I always thought Calciopoli was orchestrated by Moratti and Facchetti and Juve and Moggi were always innocent. 🤔
Their go-to defense is everybody did it. You see the same pattern now. Now, i m not saying everybody else is innocent, but how the fuck they always end up knees deep into this shit is beyond me. True ladri mentality. Always ahead of everyone else when it comes to this kinda stuff. Pioneers if you will :lol:
 

Il Drago

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Another damning thing for Juventus is they're a listed company. It's not just a football club that turned into false accounting to comply with FFP.
 
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Darth_Ausilio

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I wouldn't be surprised one bit if there was something shady in all of those primavera deals ausilio made, let's just hope fucker wasn't wired or some shit like that :lol:

As I understood, that's the most damning evidence against juve and agnelli, his people while doing those deals literally made a comment "the only thing worse than this was the calciopoli", and it's caught on tape.:lol:

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
 

CafeCordoba

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I cant comment from a legal perspective, but the plusvalenza deals for Pinamonti (etc) are as suspect IMHO. Its more grey area as there was a cash transaction, hich just happened to be folllowed by another cash transaction, rather than non-cash transactions in the case of player swaps.
Exactly. We sold Pinamonti for huge value to create plusvalenza. It doesn't matter if we have counter-option and we used that. The point is we created artificial plusvalenza with the sale. That's the whole point of this issue. Creating artificial plusvalenza.
 

Shark

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I want juve destroyed but I wonder what yet another scandal in Italian football will do in terms of damage to the reputation of the league and its attractiveness to investors, fans and players alike
I would even argue the opposite: if nothing is done about this (i.e. no punishment or repercussions for the guilty), then that would cause significant harm to Italian football and reduce its attractiveness. Investors/players would think twice before being part of a league in which one club gets away with cheating/scamming/defrauding/stealing etc. and faces no consequences. I get your concern tho, and I'm guessing many connected with the Italian league think the same and that's why imo there will only be some kind of a fine as punishment.

Italian football isn't in the state it is right now because Rube got relegated in 06. There were signs of decline well before that. But I guess that discussion is kinda off topic here.

tl;dr the league will be fine, fingers crossed Rube face severe punishments
 

sdvroot

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Tour results
 

Jnr

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Vlahovic 12th Serie A goal. Dzeko&Lautaro has 14 between them.
 

Jusef

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Exactly. We sold Pinamonti for huge value to create plusvalenza. It doesn't matter if we have counter-option and we used that. The point is we created artificial plusvalenza with the sale. That's the whole point of this issue. Creating artificial plusvalenza.
But that does matter. In sham transactions, the auditor is analysing the true nature of the transaction, who fiscally benefited, and the business purpose.

Allegedly in the Pinmonte case, he was disposed of for above FMV, and then repurchased for that FMV or above. Actual consideration was exchanged. So whatever tax benefit was obtained was offset.

In the Juve - Barca swap, you have a sham transaction, inadequate consideration, and no real business purpose, since neither player made their clubs more competitive.

Of course these allegations are hard to prove, but essentially the auditors are considering 1) whether a fiscal benefit resulted, 2) did the parties device or disguise the true nature of the transaction, and was 3) there a bona fide business purpose.

I think this will all depend on the evidence the auditors have in their possession.

If for example, there was evidence to show that Juve was demanding 20 million for Pjanic and he was disposed of for a valuation of 50 million than that's a solid case and similar for Arthur, if Barca was shopping him around for 20 million and 2 months later sold him for a valuation for 30 plus million that will show he was disposed for above FMV.
 
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