José "The Special One" Mourinho

[nurko]

Considering his recent failures, DeBoer does not need more bad spotlight right now. Entering trashtalking war with Mourinho is the last thing he needs.

 

[monster09]

Noticed a post regarding how the game has changed since 2012 on reddit, before then teams were punished more for making mistakes which suited Mourinho's tactics more. Now teams are making less defensive mistakes meaning attackers need to be better to compensate

Defenders don't make mistakes without pressure, they do when the other team puts lot of pressure on them.

Check Liverpool's game vs City, they put lot of pressure on their defense by pressing high and not giving time on the ball, they did lot of mistakes.

To put pressure and make them to commit mistakes, team should attack relentlessly or coach the team in such a way that there is lot of off the ball movement, Jose lacks in both.

Also one more common thing you notice in the teams that scores lot is their work rate. ManUtd rank 20th in work rate. Jose doesn't know how to set up his team to press and work as collective unit. He relies on dropping deep and winning tackles which puts unnecessary pressure on the team and also by the time we win the ball, team is too deep to stage a good counter.

Best example I could think of is, when Klopp became Liverpool manager, their first game was against Spurs which ended up 0-0. What is very much noticeable is team's work rate and they matched Spurs in distance covered. Right from the word go, Klopp made his team work hard.

Jose's teams are very passive. If he isn't winning trophies then it's easy to see why fans turn against him.

 

[brehme1989]

This is like some illuminati sjw tactics of not being able to u read simple sentences.


None of the players you or I named....are bad. None. Not even Muntari. These are all actually good players. No, none of them is Messi or CR of their position, but they can still win european cups (yup, they both did) or play some good football (or be integral parts of the team). Every good team has their quality players in it, we are just so used of watching top tier teams that we don't appreciate the so called work horses like Lingard or Chivu.

It'd be funny when you realize that we were replying to CandrevaCrosses and not yourself.

I partly agree with you. But players like Lingard not being bad overall is partly true. Them being bad for an Inter or a Man Utd is also true. Just like Eder is a bad player for Inter. He can be a good player for SPAL or Empoli or even Genoa though.

 

[K.I.]

There is lot of truth in what you said. It's on coach to bring the best out of players and for most part Jose is failing with few exceptions.

Players like Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Zlatan, Bailly, Lukaku were signed after having great seasons but for most part they are underwhelming.

Players like Rashford, Martial would walk into any squad in the league, they are very talented players and they even justified their position by scoring or assisting at superb rate, then Jose fucked it up by playing them as RW.

For all the shit Lingard gets, he saved Jose's ass on so many occasions. Fergie, Van Gaal, Jose all rated him and played him. Obvious whether the player is good or not when 3 of the greatest managers rates a player. Also Lingard has contributed nearly 20 goals and assists already with superb mins per G+A record. Scored 2 goals against Arsenal, winner against Chelsea, 2 goals against Burnley to make it 2-2 from 2-0 down, when Watford were all over us and score was 3-2, he dribbled from own half to score and make it 4-2.

He had superb season, not sure how anyone can even question his place in the squad.

Smalling was part of the defense with best or second best defensive record for last 2-3 seasons. Only players who played many games in that record is De Gea and Smalling.

Well to put in very simple terms, Jose is failing to get the best out of players. People here can go on and on about how Inter were warriors and Chelsea first stint players were all warriors, they all are missing simple point. Coaches peak and decline just like players. Some adapts, some don't. You can't go on and on about Inter 2010 forever. Since that happened, Inter warriors and Jose mastermind both didn't do much in CL.

Yes but he did that with Porto, won the league with Chelsea [and he come back and he won again], with Real, With Man UTD he is second with an average squad, wont the UL last year. I agree with you though that he has to adapt and the Seville knock out was a disaster and one thing he has to do is get rid of the trash, sign some good players and re-adjust his approach. This warrior thing isnt gonna work anymore, play ur best players and make the team more assertive in games.

 

[monster09]

Yes but he did that with Porto, won the league with Chelsea [and he come back and he won again], with Real, With Man UTD he is second with an average squad, wont the UL last year. I agree with you though that he has to adapt and the Seville knock out was a disaster and one thing he has to do is get rid of the trash, sign some good players and re-adjust his approach. This warrior thing isnt gonna work anymore, play ur best players and make the team more assertive in games.

Like I said, Porto, Chelsea, Inter was his peak. It happens to most coaches, they have their methods which gives amazing results and as football evolve, few adapt and few are left behind. Some are not comfortable to play in different ways.

He spent so much money and had 4 transfer windows. You can give Xavi, Iniesta, Messi at their peak but Jose way of working would be same. He is uncomfortable to take the game to opponents against good teams.

Results wise he has done good enough job this season, at least in league. The way we play should improve a lot as without winning leagues and titles, it's just joyless to watch the team play his way.

 

[nurko]

. The way we play should improve a lot as without winning leagues and titles, it's just joyless to watch the team play his way.

True.

 

[brehme1989]

Football is about playing to win. If you want to find joy, get a hobby.

 

[monster09]

 

[wera]

Football is about playing to win. If you want to find joy, get a hobby.

What we saw didn't look like playing to win. Fellaini being the most dangerous player for United should tell you a lot.

 

[monster09]

What we saw didn't look like playing to win. Fellaini being the most dangerous player for United should tell you a lot.

Lukaku was by far the best ManUtd player on the pitch. Fellaini was just decent.

 

[wicked wizard]

When you do look at man United squad it is pretty shit tbh. Not that many special players really, now if pogba and sanchez started to play to their potential things could be different. Can't just put all the blame on Jose.

 

[Hasan]

Jose isn’t coach for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United, Bayern etc.

He’s coach for top underdog teams like Inter, Liverpool, Napoli or Atletico Madrid.

It’s no coincidence that his best results came with Chelsea who had to take powerful Manchester & Arsenal domination or our European success after so many years. Clubs who suffered so long don’t care about pretty, attractive football. They care about winning and taking those dominant bastards from the trone.

.

 

[America]

Jose isn’t coach for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United, Bayern etc.

He’s coach for top underdog teams like Inter, Liverpool, Napoli or Atletico Madrid.

It’s no coincidence that his best results came with Chelsea who had to take powerful Manchester & Arsenal domination or our European success after so many years. Clubs who suffered so long don’t care about pretty, attractive football. They care about winning and taking those dominant bastards from the trone.

.

This.

I've said many times that Mourinho's uber-defensive tactics and style work best when he's punching up. Mourinho has a constant chip on his shoulder, and it's apparent when he comes up against teams that are bigger than him.

While playing at Porto, in a league that isn't exactly praised, he was able to win 2 successive European titles. He almost won 2 trebles for each season, and he made his name as well as cementing his legacy at Porto. He was punching up at everyone in the UCL, and it worked. He moved on to Chelsea, and was punching up at Liverpool, Arsenal and Manchester United and was able to shut them up for 2 seasons in a row. He moved on to Inter, and proved everyone wrong and won the treble. He views himself as the guy that gets laughed at by the upper-echelon of European football, and it drives him and his players to prove them wrong. He can do that very well.

However, when he is the upper echelon of European clubs, his style is immediately vacuumed of it's swagger and assertiveness. He isn't a good spender, and allowing him to throw money around with the best and brightest players gets him very little. It's indicative that since leaving Inter, he's managed at 3 of the biggest clubs in Europe in Real, Chelsea and Man Utd and has managed the same amount across all 3 that he did in 2 seasons at Porto.

Send Mourinho to Atletico Madrid and I'm 80% sure he would deliver a league title or a European title within 2 years. Send him back to Barca or Real, and I imagine he'd win a league or domestic up in the same time frame.

 

[monster09]

Jose isn’t coach for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United, Bayern etc.

He’s coach for top underdog teams like Inter, Liverpool, Napoli or Atletico Madrid.

It’s no coincidence that his best results came with Chelsea who had to take powerful Manchester & Arsenal domination or our European success after so many years. Clubs who suffered so long don’t care about pretty, attractive football. They care about winning and taking those dominant bastards from the trone.

.

This might be true but there are so many journalists who said Madrid spell broke him. He isn't the same Jose who managed Chelsea and Inter.

His 3 years at Madrid was just toxic, bad atmosphere in Madrid dressing room, el Clasico became even more toxic with lot of rift between Madrid and Barca Spanish players.

It might be true that those 3 years took a lot from Jose mentally. Then it might be also true that he is left behind.

 

[Sassuolu]

Football changes, Mourinho won trophies for a decade and probably now the game has passed him by and also it seems he's not getting along with the younger generation of players.

 

[Ziyad]

This might be true but there are so many journalists who said Madrid spell broke him. He isn't the same Jose who managed Chelsea and Inter.

His 3 years at Madrid was just toxic, bad atmosphere in Madrid dressing room, el Clasico became even more toxic with lot of rift between Madrid and Barca Spanish players.

It might be true that those 3 years took a lot from Jose mentally. Then it might be also true that he is left behind.

i totally agree with this. He emerged out of that experience more rigid and angrier,in responding on the pitch and to the media. In a way he got tangled in his own head and to use his words he became obsessed when he was once more of a dreamer.

 

[brehme1989]

Let's ignore how Mourinho changed Real Madrid from CL chokers to CL contenders and reached the semis every season, while dethroning the best Barcelona side of all time.

 

[uzhang]

MOU is good,. MU is shit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wera]

Let's ignore how Mourinho changed Real Madrid from CL chokers to CL contenders and reached the semis every season, while dethroning the best Barcelona side of all time.

Nobody said that isn't true. But he isn't the same anymore, like Ziyad said, he doesn't look like a dreamer anymore, it looks like there is a lot of anger in him.

Of the 3 seasons there, his team was pretty good in that second season, they looked unstoppable. (But they weren't)

 

[brehme1989]

People are commenting how he regressed from 2012 and on which is untrue and unfair to say.

He won the EL last season and his team was average as hell. Though he shouldn't have reached the final in the first place but that's another story.
He took over a problematic Man Utd with a relatively shit roster and could have made them champions in his second season if City wasn't around with such spending power. Guardiola on the other hand didn't take over a problematic team, he took over a team that reached the CL semis iirc and had a pretty strong core with Aguero, de Bruyne and co. City didn't need much effort to win something, whereas Man Utd was in a worse position that we were in the last couple of seasons. And it's also an environment that does not suit him, so he has to also overcome all that.

The only outlier was his season with Chelsea after winning the league and that was due to his players' attitude mostly. Just because Man Utd fans complain about their performance doesn't mean shit. They're just not used to this type of football, the realistic Mourinho approach. He knows his team's limitations more than anyone so there's a reason he plays this way. I remember Mourinho in 2010 where he took the game to Barcelona in a semi final and everyone still remembers 60 minutes of "parking the bus" at the Camp Nou because it was more eventful. If he believes that his players can dominate, he'll set up a dominant plan.