José "The Special One" Mourinho

brehme1989

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What are you talking about? Dortmund were battling to avoid relegation and on a terrible financial state when they hired Klopp. He literally built Dortmund from scratch with a laughable budget.
Well, partly true. From scratch assumes that the team was dismantled and Klopp had to come up with a new roster. That wasn't the case. Their finances on the other hand were a mess, that's obvious.

Dortmund were Cup runners up (okay, easy run but still), they had a decent squad, it's not as if their football foundations were as bad as the table suggests. There wasn't a massive overhaul, it was very gradual. Sure, their finances were a mess. They were genuinely midtable due to restricted finances, yet they were still spending decent amounts compared with their peers. They were making bad deals, but they also made a lot of those when Klopp was there. They were never big spenders but they were prudent and it's typical of Klopp to have a say in transfers and they're usually spot on. And even if Mourinho was given the same free rein, he'd not be as good at it.

Klopp did change most of the team by the time he had to win, that's a given. That's also what Mourinho has to do. Almost none of those shitters are CL calibre players. Zaniolo is ruined by injuries, Spinazzola is hospitalized and then there's just Pellegrini. Arguably Rui Patricio, but he has to learn the language as well. It's not just a player card that plays, it's a human being.

At Liverpool the situation was much different than both Dortmund and Roma.

The reason why Dortmund was in a better situation than Roma is now is based on how football is. You need more money, back then good players would join teams more easily, now (2010s) they want the team to be in the Champions League, until the late 2000s that was just a luxury they enjoyed, but not the catalyst unless it was between mid-tier league teams (PSV plays in CL, Ajax does not, player prefers move to PSV etc. Same player now doesn't even blink when those two clubs approach him). Also German football was far more fluid. Bayern wasn't in the position they are now, Schalke was awkward, Wolfsburg was a firework, Hamburg was inconsistent. There was an opening. In Italy now you have 5 established sides ahead of Roma and maybe 2 more on the same level with the same ambition. Roma can spend more, but they're bad spenders as we saw over the last 5-6 years. No matter the management. Monchi, Pinto with these guys...
 
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bubba zanetti

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But if you claim that his football is done, that his football is outdated based on his results last few seasons, does it mean that Pioli is currently better coach than Mou? Or even Spaletti? Cmon man, that logic is nonsense. I can agree he lost his sharpness. I would say that Mou is still master tactician, that he still knows football and gets it. They say his team doesnt press.. Cmon, his Inter was 12 years ago pressing fkn Barca and Chelsea in Meazza, players were like kamikaze. I would say that he just cant click with majority of this new generation of players. There are no real men, leaders in football, very few and they are already old. In ManU he had spoiled pussy asses like Pogba, Lingard and Rashford, in Tottenham Delle etc. Mou clicks with guys like Hjojberg, and they are dying breed. His tactics are not outdated, his relationship with these modern Balotellis are his biggest issue. In Roma you have also bunch of Balotellis but without his football talent. What can you achieve there? In Roma case they will be forever shit or they will(like in ManU and Tottenham with bunch of Balotellis(POGBA)) stab you in the back.
 
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Il Drago

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Well, partly true. From scratch assumes that the team was dismantled and Klopp had to come up with a new roster. That wasn't the case. Their finances on the other hand were a mess, that's obvious.

Dortmund were Cup runners up (okay, easy run but still), they had a decent squad, it's not as if their football foundations were as bad as the table suggests. There wasn't a massive overhaul, it was very gradual. Sure, their finances were a mess. They were genuinely midtable due to restricted finances, yet they were still spending decent amounts compared with their peers. They were making bad deals, but they also made a lot of those when Klopp was there. They were never big spenders but they were prudent and it's typical of Klopp to have a say in transfers and they're usually spot on. And even if Mourinho was given the same free rein, he'd not be as good at it.

Klopp did change most of the team by the time he had to win, that's a given. That's also what Mourinho has to do. Almost none of those shitters are CL calibre players. Zaniolo is ruined by injuries, Spinazzola is hospitalized and then there's just Pellegrini. Arguably Rui Patricio, but he has to learn the language as well. It's not just a player card that plays, it's a human being.

At Liverpool the situation was much different than both Dortmund and Roma.

The reason why Dortmund was in a better situation than Roma is now is based on how football is. You need more money, back then good players would join teams more easily, now (2010s) they want the team to be in the Champions League, until the late 2000s that was just a luxury they enjoyed, but not the catalyst unless it was between mid-tier league teams (PSV plays in CL, Ajax does not, player prefers move to PSV etc. Same player now doesn't even blink when those two clubs approach him). Also German football was far more fluid. Bayern wasn't in the position they are now, Schalke was awkward, Wolfsburg was a firework, Hamburg was inconsistent. There was an opening. In Italy now you have 5 established sides ahead of Roma and maybe 2 more on the same level with the same ambition. Roma can spend more, but they're bad spenders as we saw over the last 5-6 years. No matter the management. Monchi, Pinto with these guys...
But that was exactly the case. Klopp had to change the majority of the team in order for Dortmund to become competitive again from the get go. In his first summer he brought 7 new players, promoted Schmelzer and brought Sahin back from Feyenord and he had to do it with peanuts. All of them were basically starters in his team. And he was right to do so. They didn't have a decent squad. At all. Table was a fair representation of how bad they were. That Dortmund team was badly built without football foundations. They had Weidenfeller, Kehl, Kuba, a teenager Hummels who was a Bayern reject at the time, Petric who was a decent forward and Dede who could only attack though. I will even give you Valdez and Frei who were badly underperforming though. That's it. The rest were either grandpas (Worns, Klimowicz, Kovac) or simply not good enough (Federico, Tinga, Kringe, Degen etc.). It's quite telling from that squad the only ones who had an important role in Dortmund's first title 3 years later were Weidenfeller, Hummels and Kuba. And that's what i mean by saying he built them from scratch.

I agree the situation in Bundesliga was more fluid than current Serie A but they were going against a Bayern side that played in 2 CL finals in 3 years. That's as world class competition as it gets. Also if Roma owner continues to invest Roma could find themselves in a very good situation as rest of the league don't have money to spend.
 

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Want to compare Klopp with current Roma situation? Tell us about his Dortmund years. They were in an even better position than Roma was, don't let the standings fool you. Hint, check their Cup progress that year.
- I rather won't check his Dortmund years, because it doesn't exactly help your point...
Then tell us how many years it took Klopp to win something there and create a dangerous side. Then tell us if he was "finished" when he lost the league to Bayern with a 25 point gap, the same year he lost the CL final...
- He delivered big time for the resources he had being put in so yet again no comparison. Did the same at Liverpool. In general we are not talking about a coach winning titles or not winning titles, but building solid foundations or even having his team show progress, which is not the case regarding Mourinho even though the management spent over 100mln. €. We are not talking about a newly promoted Serie B side, which has to be quickfixed, we are talking about a side which ended in the Top 7, which represents a solid foundation in itself in order to build something starting from there. Sure, they were unlucky regarding Spinazzola, but they have players capable of competing for the Champions League which they have done at this point of the season last year, but now they don't. So still it seems more than legit to rate Mourinhos stint critically until now.

- You brought up Lazio; a team that lost less points than Roma in comparison to last season having only spent 5mln. € even though they are totally rebranding their football after five years.

- As to the point of you bubba, that Mourinho cannot cope with the new school players; I'm of the same oppinion, and that is why one could say that he is simply outdated. He should be able to do so considering the money he earns.
 

brehme1989

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Don't you also agree that if Roma is to become a competitive side, there's less than 5 current players that would deserve a roster spot?
 

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Don't you also agree that if Roma is to become a competitive side, there's less than 5 current players that would deserve a roster spot?
Absolutely. I have said it from the first moment they announced Mourinho they need a squad overhaul if they want to be competitive again.

Sure. If they spend 300m on transfers. They need a new starting lineup to fight for the Scudetto. Not even prime Mourinho could lead this Roma to glory.

Mou, even this version of him, obviously is an upgrade over Fonseca but they have barely made any moves and they need a squad overhaul if they want to finish in top 4. I am not worried about them just yet.
 

brehme1989

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Absolutely. I have said it from the first moment they announced Mourinho they need a squad overhaul if they want to be competitive again.
This is quite blatant. I don't get what people were expecting without the overhaul.

And especially after seeing this money being wasted on inadequate players like Tammy, Reynolds and Shomurodov, on top of sealing the obligations of Ibanez, Kumbulla etc. That's where 100m has gone. Makes the Antonio Candreva, Gabriel Barbosa, Joao Mario, Ever Banega and Caner Erkin window seem world class.

The irony is that Roma isn't getting rid of inadequate players, but it's only older players. Dzeko, Kolarov (both at Inter now :lol: ), Pastore, Pedro. It's not like their shedding deadweight. Fazio and Santon as still there and they've even added more deadweight in the summer window.
 
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