La Curva Nord

[brehme1989]

The club was not founded on internationalism.

This false origin myth has to be busted at some point because without the original context we are getting lost in translation. I understand for some it's quite nice to have this globalist origin myth, but we need to understand what really happened here.

Just an fyi, draw a simple comparison of how many foreigners Inter signed with the ones Milan signed from 1908 to 1920 and you'll be surprised.

The 'brothers of the world' thing was reflected on some Swiss player-officers we had at the club that were demoted due to Milan wanting the club to be run by Italians only, not because they didn't want foreign players. The issue about foreign players was their numbers, not their lackof. And it was not Milan's idea, but the Federation's. And Milan initially had a negative take on it and refused to acknowledge the ruling.

A sports club at the time was a social club first. The inclusiveness was relating to membership, not the players that featured. Football wasn't big enough to attract that kind of disputes back then. The clubs were amateur and the inclusion was regarding the inclusion some Swiss and German dudes living in Milano at the time in amateur sport events and using the Inter facilities.

Milan did not participate the year of the foreigners limitation ruling and that's when we were born. Their management wanted to reconcile with the federation and some guys protested. Inter was born, and the next season the FIGC abandoned its stance anyway. So that small window of Italian incompetence helped created Inter

Just another fyi, Milan had an English chairman at the time who remained there and two foreign players still stayed there.

You know how many ex Milan players joined the new found Internazionale? Just 3 Swiss guys that weren't even important players and the new limitation would see them not be part of the team at all. They were founding members of Inter and Inter was not just a club made up of its players. One of them for example was the club's treasurer or something
Milan reconciled and used the argument that the club had to promote football in the Italian society (ie play more Italians). They also shortly abandoned that stance when they saw us win the Scudetto and then signed everyone from everywhere.

Long story short, there's nothing to suggest that Inter was founded as some sort of globalist outpost.

 

[.h.]

so sounds like we were founded on more inclusion.

 

[brehme1989]

so sounds like we were founded on more inclusion.

We were founded on a protest to a rule and internal conflict on how to approach that federation decision after initially agreeing to sit out the season.

You could claim that it was because of a discriminatory regulation and you won't be wrong, but we were not founded on more inclusion. Milan was actually a more inclusive club than us in the 1910s.

On a sidenote, Inter wanted to maintain its bourgeois status whilst Milan wanted, as a part of "promoting football in Milano and Italy" to be more inclusive within the society and did not distinguish membership based on social standing.

 

[monster09]

I watched the penalty video where there monkey noise was clearly audible, shame that happened and even more that CN posted that shit letter. Can't blame Italian FA too when UEFA are so pathetic at dealing with this. Penalty for racial abuse was less than penalty for player weaning sponsored underwear or team turning up few mins late.

 

[Puma]

brehme, why is the history you have provided not common knowledge?

 

[.h.]

We were founded on a protest to a rule and internal conflict on how to approach that federation decision after initially agreeing to sit out the season.

You could claim that it was because of a discriminatory regulation and you won't be wrong, but we were not founded on more inclusion. Milan was actually a more inclusive club than us in the 1910s.

On a sidenote, Inter wanted to maintain its bourgeois status whilst Milan wanted, as a part of "promoting football in Milano and Italy" to be more inclusive within the society and did not distinguish membership based on social standing.

still sounds like we were founded on the basis of racial inclusion. thanks for agreeing

 

[brehme1989]

brehme, why is the history you have provided not common knowledge?

Because it's too much detail.

And it spoils the rhetoric in this newly globalised world that there was a club 100 years ago that 'forsaw' this and was so 'progressive' ahead of its time. At least for some, mostly foreign Inter followers, as their information comes from English sources and they are significantly poor on Italian football.

- - - Updated - - -

still sounds like we were founded on the basis of racial inclusion. thanks for agreeing

Racial inclusion? Nope, race does not equal nationality.

The first non-white player to come to Italy was a Brazilian moving to, guess who? Milan. The allegedly racist club we left to form our own non-racist one.

Come on man, you're better than this, stop twisting the narrative.

You are supporting an Italian club. Almost every fan base in Italy, except for the likes of Ternana, Livorno, Campobasso and maybe Bologna to an extent and Napoli to a lesser one, would qualify as "racist" in the eyes of most non-Italians.

 

[.h.]

And what year was that Brazilian player?

 

[brehme1989]

And what year was that Brazilian player?

Early 1960s

Why wasn't there one at Inter during this time?
When did Inter sign its for ethnically non-European player?

 

[dax21]

Demba Ba, star of such teams such as Besiktas, West Ham and Shenhua.... his one notable career move was a single season stint at Chelsea, and the only reason why anyone might remember him is because of the infamous Slippy G going full retard moment.

While his empathy is genuine, him shitting on Serie A screams sour grapes after such a below mediocre career. He would've pledged his firstborn for a Serie A top club contract and he knows it.

 

[ElDuccio]

Unbelievable that the league made a fucking campaign saying piracy kills football. nah motherfucker, piracy kills Sky's pockets, and that's fantastic by me. they don't give a flying fuck about this very real issue in front of their faces

so fucking true forgetting about the racism that is getting every year worse in italy but of course piracy is a problem for them which is ridiciolous too because Sky is getting every year more expensive, it's normal that people searches for some other alternative. But nah, Sky Italia money is more important then other things.

 

[.h.]

Early 1960s

Why wasn't there one at Inter during this time?
When did Inter sign its for ethnically non-European player?

An argument that we were founded on an inclusive basis doesnt mean Milan didnt change their mind st some point in time, nor does it mean we inherently had to be the first person to sign a non european

 

[brehme1989]

An argument that we were founded on an inclusive basis doesnt mean Milan didnt change their mind st some point in time, nor does it mean we inherently had to be the first person to sign a non european

Yet, we signed our first non-white player a few months after Milan got theirs. It was Jair da Costa, an important Grande Inter asset.
Coincidentally? Or was it social pressure?

Following your line of thought, which is wrong to begin with as we were not found on an inclusive basis because Milan was not an...exclusive club and we sort of became one, one can assume that you are okay with Inter also drifting away from their so called inclusive basis. Maybe Inter changed its mind, too. So why do you want the club to instill values it does not hold just because you assume that they are part of the statuto?

Please show me how the club has held these values you are referring to, expect for a piece of paper signed on the foundation day that is taken way out of context.

 

[Adriano@10]

Who cares when we signed our first non white player? Will never know if those brothers of the world statements were just lip service or if our founders truely believed in it.

Fact is that racism has no place in an international sport where billions of dollars are involved, it s part of the problem why the serie a is lagging behind the EPL and their revenues. They managed to clean up their stadiums and like many said i doubt the english are less racist, but they saw their hooligan problem and they solved it once and for all did it harm the atmosphere in the stadiums? Yes yes it did but it also made the EPL overtake Serie A and La liga in popularity and now shit clubs like wolves can spend more money then we can a supposedly big club.
Now what does Italy do ? Apparently nothing cause as far as i can remember back these accidents happened(although back in the day not many cared) and they are still happening now on a regular basis.

And claiming ohh its a cultural thing you guys dont understand wont help anybody and it wont solve the problem cause fact is will always have black players in serie A and for duck s sake ballo who grew up in italy who is Italian who should get the culture was very fucken offended by it and he did not go ohh this is just italy. What should a guy think that comes from the premier or anywhere else other than eastern europe?

Also we just have to realise that money rules and advertisers are much less likely to touch a club that is percived as racist especially when it comes to the international stage. We cannot complain that the epl makes so much more money and then be like yeah this racist shit just happens well guess what most products that have connection to racism will be worth less to the average consumer. Does anybody really think that an american or english viewer (casual viewer) will ever go uhh thats just italy when they make monkey noises towards a black player? Hell fucken no they ll be shocked.

Imho it s quite easy italy and serie a has to decide whether they want to become an international respected brand alla EPL or whether they d rather say no we re italian we re gonna keep our slight racism which you dont understand and will let the other leagues pass us by.

 

[brehme1989]

The same problem exists in Spain. Nobody cares that Real Madrid's ultras groups are torn between far right and ultra far right. Valencia is the same and so many others. And the Spanish behave far worse than Italians do.

As for the rest, sure, on a western world circa 2019 ethical basis, you are correct. But that's irrelevant. This is the cultural barrier we are talking about. Not everyone has the same filters and you shouldn't expect them to. An Italian and a Norwegian do not share the same values. An American and a Greek don't either. Not all people are the same of course, or fit in the same national grouping, but generally speaking that would be accurate.

The Asians sponsoring Inter probably don't give a shit about this. Suning also doesn't give a fuck. They reacted when it was Koulibaly in our ground because we ended up being punished for it, but I doubt they follow the logic that much. They probably see it as something silly. Why? Because they are even more alien to this racism thing. The whole term racism in the modern sense is simply the American version of things. The rest just follow them. And you need the full context and awareness to understand it. At the same time, everyone else needs to understand that this was almost exclusively American (and South African) for the majority of the 20th century. People stopped caring about their own history these days, how do you expect to force them to care about other people's history?

 

[firmino]

Your whole post is, again, a load of bullshit.

We, as a society, since the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, ratified in Paris in 1948, we have established some universal principles and racism cannot be a part of a society.

Whether some retard thinks differently, is irrelevant.

To call racism something different like curva nord does, is a poor trick and nobody falls for that.

There cannot and must not be room for racism. And if someone thinks differently, he is not worth being part of the society. Plain and simple.

There are some values, which we have rightfully called universal values, that are unalienable.

I repeat, just to be sure it's clear: there cannot and must not be room for allowing racism.

No ifs, no buts, no distinctions.

 

[brehme1989]

Racism itself is not very well defined though. Many things can fall under the veil of racism when they are not. Heck, even sexism can fall under the racism category (in some languages).
It's not a matter of allowing it but one of separating the lines. Is it a practice though? Or just the speech? You may say everything should be included. Then doesn't everything else that is bad mouthing in stadiums fall under 'hate speech'?

Surely, monkey chants are a fucked up way of expressing anything and nobody really likes hearing it. But I'm pretty sure that even that can be contested by some in the treaty you are referring to. If i can sing devi morire to people at the stadium, which is the absolute sin and the biggest crime if you follow through with it, then I guess this monkey chanting business is not that high on that list either.

 

[Adriano@10]

The same problem exists in Spain. Nobody cares that Real Madrid's ultras groups are torn between far right and ultra far right. Valencia is the same and so many others. And the Spanish behave far worse than Italians do.

As for the rest, sure, on a western world circa 2019 ethical basis, you are correct. But that's irrelevant. This is the cultural barrier we are talking about. Not everyone has the same filters and you shouldn't expect them to. An Italian and a Norwegian do not share the same values. An American and a Greek don't either. Not all people are the same of course, or fit in the same national grouping, but generally speaking that would be accurate.

The Asians sponsoring Inter probably don't give a shit about this. Suning also doesn't give a fuck. They reacted when it was Koulibaly in our ground because we ended up being punished for it, but I doubt they follow the logic that much. They probably see it as something silly. Why? Because they are even more alien to this racism thing. The whole term racism in the modern sense is simply the American version of things. The rest just follow them. And you need the full context and awareness to understand it. At the same time, everyone else needs to understand that this was almost exclusively American (and South African) for the majority of the 20th century. People stopped caring about their own history these days, how do you expect to force them to care about other people's history?

What firmino said.

Also how are western ethical standards of 2019 irrelevant?
Again we want to be a international club we want as many fans as possible and we want as many sponsors as possible and racism just goes in the direct opposition. Yes maybe suning and some other chinese brands dont care atm but they wil sooner or later. Fact is those headlines whether they were racist or they are just a product of cultural differences makes our club look shitty on the global stage and that should be enough to cut it out.

And again whats your take on Balo, Ogbona and keane having problems with it despite being italian? As in if you claim it s a cultural thing and not racism should these guys not have understood that it s nothing racist since they grew up in that culture? Or are you saying if only a minority is offended by it and most other people in the society, namely those not directly offended, think it s normal then it s not racist?

Also i highly disagree that spain has it worse i know they also have problems but just from the top of y head they had way less inccidents then the serie a had in the last couple of years.

 

[brehme1989]

No one is arguing that there isn't an issue.

The main problem here is that you expect Italy to fix something they don't realize is a problem to begin with. They have no fucking clue of what to do. How do you go about eradicating this from stadiums and society? Or are we going to be happy if this stays in Lampedusa and the urban centres but out of football?

My take on Balotelli and the others is also irrelevant. The relevant part is how to make this not be in the headlines. And since players will be affected by it, it's going to make headlines if the people in charge don't stop it. And the people in charge are the Italian government and some ministries, not Inter or Cagliari. It's a political issue, not a football one. The football clubs cannot do much.

 

[Edward.]

The ultras statement, and the statements I've read in the past from them are cringey as fuck. The ones I've read always come across as someone with very little class typing a message trying to sound sophisticated but coming across as obviously insincere and passive-agressive. Not the best example but they almost remind me of the Nigerian scam emails way of speaking, or a terrorist decloration statement from Isis or something