Luka Topalović

[.h.]

That’s the thing you guys can’t seem to understand. I know everyone will make it! I completely understand that. However, you increase your chances by giving opportunities. For every Bastoni/Donnarumma there are going to be kids that don’t pan out. Every country has that, even Spain.

Pafundi just turned 18 in March are we acting like he’s done? Moise Kean is the starter for Fiorentina, Gnonto’s club unfortunately is making it difficult for him to transfer. However he will probably be back in the EPL playing consistent minutes. Still only 20 years old, he’s still on good trajectory. Pellegri had a lot of injuries unfortunately and his development got derailed. That’s going to happen sometimes.

not acting like hes done, but tbh, citing mancini doing some extreme debuts for someone who played once, in a friendly, and hasnt really gone on to do anything since is hardly a big deal to get excited about


...and if nothing else, the fact that we had no choice but to play a striker who scored like 5 goals in 2 years, a guy who cant even score consistently in the 2nd division in England, and one guy who is 1 in 17 in Switzerland backs up the point Cafe/I have made that... Italy just has fuck all talent atm...

Imagine if England, or Spain, has a striker from Italy's 2nd division. No chance.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Let’s be clear. I have these conversations whenever the topic is brought up. Particularly by those who like to point and say see when a young guy makes a mistake. And funny enough you are often involved in these convos before I even join in.

Players being good enough individually to make a team of the tournament but not good enough individually to get minutes with adults just doesn’t make sense. Italy winning youth tournaments yet not a single player is good enough doesn’t make sense.

I don’t see why it’s so difficult to admit the culture of not trusting youth is prevalent in Italy and Inter. Here is a quote from Mancini speaking on the problem.



How quickly we forget. Mancini literally had to call up players before they made their Serie A debut because he couldn’t wait for Serie A coaches to give them opportunities. Yet I’m sure you would lecture him on how the players simply aren’t good enough.

Here is another good article btw: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46229233.amp

I literally just said the reason is the culture. But it's the culture if winning, not "not trusting the youngsters" per se, since that's not culture, there's always a reason for the behaviour. And that's winning, because that's the culture, nothing matters eventually but the result (in Italy).

Young players get their chances when coaches see they are good enough for them. The absolute requirement of winning makes coaches hesitate and they use ONLY those youngsters who can really give them the absolute top level football they want. It's about saving face aswell. Coach uses a youngster and he costs them the game, he's gonna get shit on for that. That's the culture.

And what I meant by you coming everywhere to discuss this matter, yes I discuss it too but I'm not anywhere pointing any mistakes. I'm just playing down the constant talk of "young kids should be given a chance!", because it doesn't work because of the million reasons explained. We end up to the conclusion that the culture in Italy with this is wrong.

Where we seem to disagree is you seem to just think that the culture of not using youngsters blocks coaches using them while I think youngsters are simply not good enough (because of the culture of winning) and that's why coaches (Inter in particular) are not using them. And that Inter cannot fix that culture problem. With a B team we can probably ease that, because can control who plays in Serie C level then and have even better visibility with the development, which players needs what after a season in C and so on. But Inter cannot fix the problem of the culture of winning in Italy.

 

[Corrode]

Yes. I've read comments (from Italy) how the winning comes into the play way too early in junior football and coaches thus start to emphasize on tactics etc rather than just developing the talent, skills etc. Team work beats skill but when you want to take the next step (junior->senior) you need the skill too and if it's not developed enough, you are not ready. That's a very credible explanation, added with the reduced amounts of kids just playing the game and not having to sign up to some club (with expensive fees).

Italian culture with the winning. This is the root cause and @thatdude likes the bring this up everywhere in the forum wherever our kids are being discussed. Discussion always ends up to this conclusion but we do this now in many places, on a constant basis.

yeah italian loves winning maybe, in reality Italian didn't even qualified for two consecutive FIFA world cups and shitty euro cup performance, far from winning mentality..

 

[CafeCordoba]

yeah italian loves winning maybe, in reality Italian didn't even qualified for two consecutive FIFA world cups and shitty euro cup performance, far from winning mentality..

Yes the end result of the culture of winning (the demand of winning from very early age levels already) is that there are no actual winning because other countries do it differently.

 

[.h.]

yeah italian loves winning maybe, in reality Italian didn't even qualified for two consecutive FIFA world cups and shitty euro cup performance, far from winning mentality..

but thats the point no? Italy's overall standard is pretty shit at the moment, so there are a decent amount of foreigners who are helping to pad it out



Full strength Juve team, how many are Italian? Di Gregorio - who isnt close to the Italy squad yet - and Cambiaso (7 caps) and Gatti (3 caps in 2 years), Locatelli arguably but he's a rotation player for Italy... How about Milan? Calabria? Florenzi?

Even at Inter, we have Barella, Frattesi, Darmian, Acerbi, Bastoni. Of all the three clubs here, we probably have the 'best' Italian representation


Talent is mediocre. There's quite a few people in the Italy set up, but the overall quality is pretty ass



Kinda ironic, as wehav ethis discussion, Juve U20 player scores for the first team... He's (check) imported talent, not Italian, (check) got a bunch of games last year for their U23, and (check) able to develop for both the first team and the U23 at the same time, rather than a big 'do we loan or develop him' decision

 

[thatdude]

I literally just said the reason is the culture. But it's the culture if winning, not "not trusting the youngsters" per se, since that's not culture, there's always a reason for the behaviour. And that's winning, because that's the culture, nothing matters eventually but the result (in Italy).

Young players get their chances when coaches see they are good enough for them. The absolute requirement of winning makes coaches hesitate and they use ONLY those youngsters who can really give them the absolute top level football they want. It's about saving face aswell. Coach uses a youngster and he costs them the game, he's gonna get shit on for that. That's the culture.

And what I meant by you coming everywhere to discuss this matter, yes I discuss it too but I'm not anywhere pointing any mistakes. I'm just playing down the constant talk of "young kids should be given a chance!", because it doesn't work because of the million reasons explained. We end up to the conclusion that the culture in Italy with this is wrong.

Where we seem to disagree is you seem to just think that the culture of not using youngsters blocks coaches using them while I think youngsters are simply not good enough (because of the culture of winning) and that's why coaches (Inter in particular) are not using them. And that Inter cannot fix that culture problem. With a B team we can probably ease that, because can control who plays in Serie C level then and have even better visibility with the development, which players needs what after a season in C and so on. But Inter cannot fix the problem of the culture of winning in Italy.

We agree there is a culture issue. I think it can be remedied with some bravery. I guess only time will tell.

Anyways while we argue about this a youngster who just started for Juventus because they didn’t have other options just scored the opener against Como.

 

[.h.]

Anyways while we argue about this a youngster who just started for Juventus because they didn’t have other options just scored the opener against Como.

Bingo why an U23 team is *so* important. At Inter, or any club WITHOUT an U23 team, you'd be facing the decision on whether they go out on loan or stick with the first team. With an U23 team, its a small decision.

 

[Il Drago]

We agree there is a culture issue. I think it can be remedied with some bravery. I guess only time will tell.

Anyways while we argue about this a youngster who just started for Juventus because they didn’t have other options just scored the opener against Como.

Motta could have started Douglas Luiz, like he did against Atletico. He didn't. When they asked him about his decision to start the kid he said that's what happens when decisons are based on pure merit. Obviously he wouldn't have started if they had signed Koopmeiners but Motta wasn't forced to start him. It was a tactical choice.

 

[.h.]

Motta could have started Douglas Luiz, like he did against Atletico. He didn't. When they asked him about his decision to start the kid he said that's what happens when decisons are based on pure merit. Obviously he wouldn't have started if they had signed Koopmeiners but Motta wasn't forced to start him. It was a tactical choice.

(and I'm sure Cafe will say here.... based on evaluations in the course of training where Motta sees him every day!)

 

[thatdude]

Motta could have started Douglas Luiz, like he did against Atletico. He didn't. When they asked him about his decision to start the kid he said that's what happens when decisons are based on pure merit. Obviously he wouldn't have started if they had signed Koopmeiners but Motta wasn't forced to start him. It was a tactical choice.

The option was to play their new number 10 (Yildiz) as a number 10 or bring Luiz in the midfield and go 4-2-3-1 with Luiz as AM, which they did against Atletico. Luiz is not an attacking midfielder, I think that’s been realized.

Motta preferred the 4-2-3-1 to the 4-3-3 last season. If he sticks with that I don’t think you’ll see a ton of Luiz as the AM. If you move Yildiz central who is really left to start at LW? Not Chiesa who is frozen out.

Hence why I’m saying he didn’t have other options.

 

[CafeCordoba]

(and I'm sure Cafe will say here.... based on evaluations in the course of training where Motta sees him every day!)

 

[RotterdamNerazzurri]

Jube really fruited already from their B-team in Serie C. Interesting to see how Milan and Atalanta wil profit from these teams.

What’s the exact reason Inter don’t have a B-team yet?

 

[.h.]

Jube really fruited already from their B-team in Serie C. Interesting to see how Milan and Atalanta wil profit from these teams.

What’s the exact reason Inter don’t have a B-team yet?

There was probably some cost concerns, and also infra concerns. I think the suggestion was we didn't have a stadium that was fit for purpose, but also the extra overhead of the full infra (staff pitches etc) was not insignificant. Esp under a broke Suning that was penny pinching. With the new ownership the clearly see the value in it / are willing to invest / Suning have left our finances in a good enough position with expected profit this season

 

[CafeCordoba]

Juve's example should hasten any plans for the B-team to maximum effort.

But as I explained in this post

https://forzainterforums.com/index....rimavera-discussion.109/page-196#post-2269453

in the General Primavera thread, it's not so simple. Milan got their spot in the league because Ascoli lost their spot due to financial issues. I don't know what's the system but I doubt we can just inform Serie C that okay we have a team now, make room for us. Could be like that, but I doubt it.

 

[Il Drago]

There was probably some cost concerns, and also infra concerns. I think the suggestion was we didn't have a stadium that was fit for purpose, but also the extra overhead of the full infra (staff pitches etc) was not insignificant. Esp under a broke Suning that was penny pinching. With the new ownership the clearly see the value in it / are willing to invest / Suning have left our finances in a good enough position with expected profit this season

Suning were on survival mode and they were trying to cut costs from everything. There was no long term plan. So there was no one who could convince Zhang to increase costs about a project that MAY bear fruits in 3-4 years at best case scenario.

 

[.h.]

Scored for the primavera todag

 

[wera]

Yay. Is there any way to see the goal? I wonder if it was a free kick

 

[pier]

Yay. Is there any way to see the goal? I wonder if it was a free kick

Scored from a difficult angle.

 

[wera]

The toughest of angles, just ask Lukaku

 

[RickyMaravilla'sRightFoot]

This kid looks very interesting indeed. I wonder if we’re planning on keeping him here for the B team next season.