Mercato Team (Ausilio, Marotta, & Co.) and Strategies

[wera]

I mean I don't know how we came to this that I have to defend Sterling of all fucking players. It's absurd. I'd understand if somebody said he doesn't have the IT factor or will always just be a scoring winger (a la Pedro), but he is not a football player is a bit too much.

As far as romanticizing go, I think Brehme has certain bias towards the good ol' days and that makes him bitter against some specific players, teams and leagues. Just like he probably dislikes Manchester City as a club, but when Inter was a rich club breaking transfer records it was fine.

 

[brehme1989]

I don't dislike Man City as a club.

And I'm sorry if I am not a strong fan of how corrupted football has become and how much less talent there is around these days.

 

[A.l.i]

He is the PFA player of the year for God's sake. This title has been won by players such as Giggsy, Henry, Bergkamp, Drogba etc.

 

[wera]

Kinda weird Sadio Mane didn't get it this season.

 

[Kramerica Industries]

I don't dislike Man City as a club.

And I'm sorry if I am not a strong fan of how corrupted football has become and how much less talent there is around these days.

I'm not going to dispute the corruption point, because that's pretty well understood (especially for Inter supporters; fuck off FFP and your inconsistent application bullshit).

But the second point, about less talent these days? I don't know about that. That's pretty much never how these things work in other sports. There's more scouts and methods of finding players than ever before, fitness methods are better, as are training methods, which coax more talent out of players (collectively) than ever before as well. If anything's happened, I would think it's that the baseline for talent has risen to the point where players who might've stood out in a prior era don't stand out as much anymore. But the idea that there's less talent around today than in the past? Maybe it's more bunched up now, which goes back in part to the corruption point and just generally sucks (feels like there's many players sitting on the benches of top teams who could be leading lesser squads to fight for domestic and European glory themselves, and that would make competition more open and, thus, more enjoyable), but I can't imagine that the actual talent level of the sport has dropped. Stuff like that is bound to reach a plateau, because there's only so far you can take the human body after a certain point, but not actually drop. That doesn't jive.

 

[FCBarca]

After Frenkie De Jong, I don't think so.

Nope, no chance he ends up at Barcelona - my prediction is the Premiership, either United or Spurs

 

[brehme1989]

I'm not going to dispute the corruption point, because that's pretty well understood (especially for Inter supporters; fuck off FFP and your inconsistent application bullshit).

But the second point, about less talent these days? I don't know about that. That's pretty much never how these things work in other sports. There's more scouts and methods of finding players than ever before, fitness methods are better, as are training methods, which coax more talent out of players (collectively) than ever before as well. If anything's happened, I would think it's that the baseline for talent has risen to the point where players who might've stood out in a prior era don't stand out as much anymore. But the idea that there's less talent around today than in the past? Maybe it's more bunched up now, which goes back in part to the corruption point and just generally sucks (feels like there's many players sitting on the benches of top teams who could be leading lesser squads to fight for domestic and European glory themselves, and that would make competition more open and, thus, more enjoyable), but I can't imagine that the actual talent level of the sport has dropped. Stuff like that is bound to reach a plateau, because there's only so far you can take the human body after a certain point, but not actually drop. That doesn't jive.

Messi today is not any better than Ronaldo or Baggio were. He just has no competition. The top talent is non-existent. The only thing that has improved is conditioning of players and there's an illusion that overall quality is better because top teams are more stacked these days.

Defensive players are inferior and attacking players are less 'audacious'.

There's a huge gap in creativity compared to other eras because everyone who becomes a pro football player now is caged into a system from age 10 or so, whilst in the past most of these creative players learned the game in the streets and in the parks and didn't really play under a rigid system until they were 16-17 and then got directly thrown into the pro levels. There's a huge difference. People are now surprised that players can pull off things that the least talented players did all the time.

Brozovic here is a good example. He can pass and lob the ball sideways. People somehow think that is a remarkable skill, but truth is that most players act mechanically and robotically so you don't see that very often.

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He is the PFA player of the year for God's sake. This title has been won by players such as Giggsy, Henry, Bergkamp, Drogba etc.

And Lampard was voted 2nd for the Balon d'Or. Anyone taking him over Adriano that time probably is a certified lunatic.

 

[Kramerica Industries]

I hear similar arguments about hockey all the time as well, and it's not entirely unmerited. The points about both inferior defensive play and less audacious attacking are directly related to the ways coaches at top teams operate these days. Fullbacks are more involved in the attack than ever before, center halves are expected to have good passing range and vision for getting the attack into high-gear; shit, we hear so much about the ability of goalkeepers to play the ball with their feet and the necessity of that. Goalkeepers! A job where the #1 is shot-stopping and the #2 job is keeping the defense organized, and there are 'keepers who get slated if they aren't the most adept at playing the ball out from the back themselves. All of that, as far as I see it, goes back to the ways coaching set up teams these days. I dare suggest that defensive play has gone down because defenders are being asked to do more than ever before, and the more you ask, the better the chance that there's going to be mistakes involved. Attacking players might be less audacious because, if you're getting more players overall involved in the attack, then what's the need for the center forward to take everything on themself?

And, again, while it's in an opposite direction in many ways, I see and hear the same arguments in hockey circles all the time about coaches "sucking out" creativity from players. It just tends to be where defense is the #1, #2, and #3 things you're taught are most important in that sport, whereas football seems to be going in the other direction (at its top level, anyway). In any case, my takeaway there is that, whether we like it or not, this is the way things are moving forward so I'm not terribly sure what could be done to "rescue" those playstyles of old. Creativity is one of those things that sounds wonderful to anyone but coaches themselves, because where we hear "creativity", they hear "this guy is gonna make an error and we're going to be in serious trouble". Systemic play can be boring as hell - see Spain in the 2012 Euros - but it's also probably the most effective.

 

[Delicate]

Is there any proof that Messi is equal to Baggio? Like, statistical, factual, anything? Or it's just another meaningless assumption? I can understand praising prime Ronaldo pre-injuries (his Barcelona stats is something which even Messi didn't have being 19 but his injuries and genetics haunted him, bad knees plus hypothyroidism), but Baggio? This is something which requires proof, or at least a plausible arguments, not just sweet childhood/adolescence memories.

And I think just recently read from you in the CL thread that Messi is the best player ever. Or something along that way-don't wanna dig deep into that thread.

 

[brehme1989]

It's true about defenders but the problem is that the quality ones defensively are overlooked for those who can simply participate in the build up. You can have gems like Skriniar, De Ligt etc that can do both, but you cannot have the destroying art of a true stopper if you deprive them of a chance to play. It's not like genetics have regressed the defensive quality of people, it's as you said a modern trend.

As for full backs, I won't agree fully as they have always been part of thr attack, at least in the major countries. Brazil, Italy, Germany, Spain, Argentina, Portugal, France etc... Anytime they have been successful they had success it was with attacking full hacks. From the 1950s and on.

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And I think just recently read from you in the CL thread that Messi is the best player ever. Or something along that way-don't wanna dig deep into that thread.

I said greatest of OUR time. Our time is now. Not 2 generations ago when Baggio was doing everything Messi has been doing without any working knees.

If you don't understand how Baggio compares to Messi I do not need to convince you. You never will be convinced anyway. You want statistics to show this?

 

[Delicate]

And Lampard was voted 2nd for the Balon d'Or. Anyone taking him over Adriano that time probably is a certified lunatic.

So, the panel of sports journalists were all lunatics? You can blame recent Ballon d'Or editions when Panama or Zambia captain would vote for Messi or any other guy he liked without any logic but, in your opinion, do you think that out of 52 voters,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Ballon_d'Or the only ones who weren't delusional were those 4 guys who voted for Adriano being 3rd?

Oh wait, nobody voted for Adriano for 2nd place. Probably means that all 52 of them were lunatics.

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It's true about defenders but the problem is that the quality ones defensively are overlooked for those who can simply participate in the build up. You can have gems like Skriniar, De Ligt etc that can do both, but you cannot have the destroying art of a true stopper if you deprive them of a chance to play. It's not like genetics have regressed the defensive quality of people, it's as you said a modern trend.

As for full backs, I won't agree fully as they have always been part of thr attack, at least in the major countries. Brazil, Italy, Germany, Spain, Argentina, Portugal, France etc... Anytime they have been successful they had success it was with attacking full hacks. From the 1950s and on.

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I said greatest of OUR time. Our time is now. Not 2 generations ago when Baggio was doing everything Messi has been doing without any working knees.

If you don't understand how Baggio compares to Messi I do not need to convince you. You never will be convinced anyway. You want statistics to show this?

Well, I don't know what you mean by "OUR" times. The span of our lives? It also includes Baggio's times too. And what did Baggio do, btw? Scoring in CL finals or what? Oh yeah, now you will probably respond with "CL wasn't as important at those times, and Baggio only made a debut in the competition at 29 years of age" And at that debut Milan of Baggio couldn't even manage to qualify from the group stage. Sure, injuries haunted him, but I still would like to know from a renowned football expert how Baggio did same things Messi does now.

And yes, I would like some proof, sure. I think if somebody makes a strong statement he needs to somehow back it.

The "I do not need to convince you" is pure demagoguery. I like, though, how you constantly shut down reasoned deliberation.

 

[CafeCordoba]

He is the PFA player of the year for God's sake. This title has been won by players such as Giggsy, Henry, Bergkamp, Drogba etc.

Sterling has wong PFA player of the year? What the fuck?!

 

[ADRossi]

Sterling has wong PFA player of the year? What the fuck?!

No. He won the young player of the year award. van Djik won the actual player of the year award.

 

[andrei]

I hear similar arguments about hockey all the time as well, and it's not entirely unmerited. The points about both inferior defensive play and less audacious attacking are directly related to the ways coaches at top teams operate these days. Fullbacks are more involved in the attack than ever before, center halves are expected to have good passing range and vision for getting the attack into high-gear; shit, we hear so much about the ability of goalkeepers to play the ball with their feet and the necessity of that. Goalkeepers! A job where the #1 is shot-stopping and the #2 job is keeping the defense organized, and there are 'keepers who get slated if they aren't the most adept at playing the ball out from the back themselves. All of that, as far as I see it, goes back to the ways coaching set up teams these days. I dare suggest that defensive play has gone down because defenders are being asked to do more than ever before, and the more you ask, the better the chance that there's going to be mistakes involved. Attacking players might be less audacious because, if you're getting more players overall involved in the attack, then what's the need for the center forward to take everything on themself?

And, again, while it's in an opposite direction in many ways, I see and hear the same arguments in hockey circles all the time about coaches "sucking out" creativity from players. It just tends to be where defense is the #1, #2, and #3 things you're taught are most important in that sport, whereas football seems to be going in the other direction (at its top level, anyway). In any case, my takeaway there is that, whether we like it or not, this is the way things are moving forward so I'm not terribly sure what could be done to "rescue" those playstyles of old. Creativity is one of those things that sounds wonderful to anyone but coaches themselves, because where we hear "creativity", they hear "this guy is gonna make an error and we're going to be in serious trouble". Systemic play can be boring as hell - see Spain in the 2012 Euros - but it's also probably the most effective.

I don't know about hockey, but an excellent example is how basketball evolved in the last 15 years.
Because of 3-point shooting and spacing there is a category of players, who is shrinking and become less and less rellevant. I mean the traditional center, back to basket players. If they cannot shoot or defend the arc they become a vulnerability.

In football is a bit different. Because of high intensity pressing you need more and more players who are able to participate in build-up. There are gone the days where the CB and DM and maybe one of the fullbacks had only defensive duties.
It's less talent. Not at all. But you need different characteristics to be successfull.

 

[brehme1989]

It's less talent. Not at all. But you need different characteristics to be successfull.

When we say a football player is talented, we mean talented ON THE BALL. Whether you consider being fast or having lungs as a "talent" worth mentioning in football is irrelevant. It's an athletic trait that would be beneficial in many sports, but it doesn't you a better football player. Talent does. Football talent means that you can be useful even if you can barely move. It means to know what to do with a football.

Most players today just run, have very limited ball control skills, below par passing skills, terrible long distance shooting skills and rely on intensity, athletic ability and physical strenght. You used to see 1 or 2 of these guys on the pitch until 15 years ago. That's because they are utility players that were considered the worst players on the pitch but were necessary to stop the talented offensive side. These days you see a wealthy team fielding at least 3 of them by themselves. That's called watering down the talent. Can you imagine a team fielding 2-3 Gattusos? Well, this is happening these days. And the reason why it doesn't bother anyone is because they are facing a team that also has 2-3 Gattusos in the lineup. If they can pass (think Kante), then they will be rated as one of the best in the world as well. But it's an astonishing irony when you see that guys like Simeone who were "thugs" in the old days had better passing ability than a player like N'Golo Kante, was way better going forward and in the air and arguably was better defensively if we factor in the kind of players he had to face and the way football was played. Now teams zone in and expect a DM to sweep the area whilst back then you had to man mark the #10. And the #10 was someone like Diego Maradona, Roberto Baggio, Francesco Totti, Zinedine Zidane, Rui Costa, Gheorghe Hagi, Michael Laudrup, Zico, Ronaldinho, Kaka and so on. Now you have one Lionel Messi and some players like Eden Hazard which the DM usually ignores and the man marking is left for a center back.

But it's yet another irony that these system with many 'destroyers' doesn't really do justice as the very best teams have been using skillful players in an overwhelming way. Think Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern, Man City, Liverpool these days etc. There just isn't enough talent to be spread around so that teams don't use these kind of players. You can see the difference between teams in Serie A from the late 80s and on until the recent times. Teams used to have 2-3 creative players, rarely used more than 1 muscle guy... Now you watch midtable teams have zero shred of creativity and you see a SPAL or a fucking Sassuolo (back in Serie B and their first two seasons in Serie A) playing decent football and your eyes water. Atalanta is a fine example as well. No one wants to see 20 Zeman teams, but this "we need to cover the space" bullshit has regressed the sport to an alarming level. It's one of the main issues on the pitch. The other factors that are ruining football are off the pitch (UEFA and their destruction of domestic leagues throughout Europe, corruption, betting etc).

Look at Milan with their Kessie-Bakayoko ugly midfield. Look at Roma with their ugly Nzonzi-Cristante midfield. Ours is as pathetic usually. This is also why Lazio is doing much better despite having an inferior side overall, a crappy defence and lack of options going forward. They have a good midfield. This is the key. Last time we were successful our midfield was the key again. If you want to be great you need to be great in all aspects, but if you want to be relevant all you need to do is upgrade your midfield.

 

[Joker]

Well, i agree with Brehme about talent and creativity. Back then we have Cambiasso, Motta, Stankovic, Sneijder, they won us the treble. And then we have player like Melo, Medel, Kuzman, Guarin, and we won shit.

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Well, i agree with Brehme about talent and creativity. Back then we have Cambiasso, Motta, Stankovic, Sneijder, they won us the treble. And then we have player like Melo, Medel, Kuzman, Guarin, and we won shit.

 

[ADRossi]

Well, i agree with Brehme about talent and creativity. Back then we have Cambiasso, Motta, Stankovic, Sneijder, they won us the treble. And then we have player like Melo, Medel, Kuzman, Guarin, and we won shit.

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Well, i agree with Brehme about talent and creativity. Back then we have Cambiasso, Motta, Stankovic, Sneijder, they won us the treble. And then we have player like Melo, Medel, Kuzman, Guarin, and we won shit.

Yes, you are more likely to win when you have more talented players. Let me write you a thesis on it.

 

[qb4ever_2k]

I think this summer is finally our chance for a Coutinho and Kovacic and Bonucci and Cancelo homecoming, at the same time, put in cheeky bids for Sanchez and Lamela so we can correct all of our regrets in the recent years in one summer.

 

[brehme1989]

I think this summer is finally our chance for a Coutinho and Kovacic and Bonucci and Cancelo homecoming, at the same time, put in cheeky bids for Sanchez and Lamela so we can correct all of our regrets in the recent years in one summer.

No Lavezzi supersub?

 

[DARi0]

Revealed: Commissions payed to agents that took FREE players [BOSMAN] to the Nerazzurri last summer: Kwadwo Asamoah €2.3m and Stefan de Vrij €7.3m.

Godin`s agent is his sister, they should pocket somewhere under €5m, closer to Asamoah`s commission.