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brehme1989

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[youtube]4J6Oy8fU32k[/youtube]

El Principe :)

Those Zaragoza teams were amazing by the way!
 
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Il Drago

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Whenever i hear players and coaches complaining about the pitch these days i remember this game.

14 April 1998. Spartak Moscow - Inter. UEFA Cup semi-final. Second leg.

 
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brehme1989

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When Maradona visited Greece....

1988, PAOK vs Napoli for the Uefa Cup.

Just a small intro. PAOK is the most popular team in northern Greece, based in Thessaloniki. Their fans have been notorious troublemakers since the 70s. In the 80s and 90s, when fans were still allowed to move in Greece, it was a nightmare and a challenge for other fans to visit them. The most typical welcome you'd receive by traveling there as an away fan from an Attica based club was to have all the glasses of the traveling buses smashed by rocks and bottles, sit outside the stadium until the 20th minute or so, enter at your own risk as you'd be bombarded with bricks for the next 120 minutes of your stay and then, if you were lucky, your vehicles would still have tires for the long journey back home.

Maradona calls this game the worst situation and most hostile atmosphere he's ever witnessed. And the dude played for freaking Napoli...

[youtube]D-pdqYBO_4o[/youtube]

The reporter asks him "the draw gave you the result you needed to qualify, but how many times have you played in such an atmosphere all around the world?" to which Diego replied "I've played too many games but I don't recall such a thing ever... we could never find any rhythm and even for them it was difficult as they could have done more... it was a strange game".

How strange? The videos do not do much justice to the hostility that Napoli met.

[youtube]Pka2CYgQ1DM[/youtube]


[youtube]gHsquH92YGw[/youtube]


Truth is, the PAOK fans did a lot of noise at Naples and there was several interactions in the city and also the stadium, so they wanted to show Napoli who was...boss.

For the record, Napoli won 1-0 with a Maradona PK in the first leg and the return game finished at 1-1. Napoli went on to win the Uefa Cup by defeating Lokomotiv Leipzig, Bordeaux and then there was the Juventus game that I posted in a previous page with a 120th minute winner. Then faced Bayern Munchen in the semis and beat Stuttgart in the final.


P.S: We call PAOK fans "uruk hai" or "orcs" :lol:
 
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delaurentis

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Thanks for the headsup Brehme!
^ I studied for one year in Thessaloniki, and used to live nearby the PAOK and ARIS stadium. So I've experienced those images all to often. :)

@Brehme: In your opinion, what reasons could there be for such aggressive behaviour by the Thessaloniki supporters?
 
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brehme1989

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Thanks for the headsup Brehme!
^ I studied for one year in Thessaloniki, and used to live nearby the PAOK and ARIS stadium. So I've experienced those images all to often. :)

@Brehme: In your opinion, what reasons could there be for such aggressive behaviour by the Thessaloniki supporters?

Response to corruption, plays a big part.
And just nothing else to vent on.

When it comes to PAOK fans, it's also some sort of delusion that they are being targeted but no one really cared about them, if anything it's considered that they are jealous that they're not the corrupt ones, very very similar to Olympiakos fans, who are the corrupt ones :lol:
Panathinaikos, AEK, Aris and Iraklis fans aren't at all like this, at least historically. And obviously in terms of majorities that make it reasonable enough to generalize.

There are various sociopolitical matters at play, subconsciously. I'll give you a small display, without going too deep into it.
We have a saying "the goat of my neighbor can die..."
It comes from a short story of two neighbor farmers. One of them had a goat and was too happy about it. An angel appeared and asked the farmer with the goat what he wanted to wish for. He said he wanted another goat, so that his could have a friend and he'd double his business.
Then the angel went to the neighbors house. He told him that he could grant him a wish, to give him a cow, a goat, a pig, anything he wished.
The farmer said: "I want my neighbor's goat to die". This sick mentality is deeply ingrained in Greek society and its root goes back 100 years. (Maybe more if you challenge the reasoning which has to do with 1923, google it as it's way off topic and sensitive).

As for collective mentalities:
Panathinaikos fans want to be the greatest Greek team.
Olympiakos fans want to be the greatest team in Greece.
Sounds the same, yet the difference is immense. Panathinaikos fans want Greek football to be good enough so that the team can challenge once again for Europe. Olympiakos fans do not care about how useless Greek football is as long as they can collect trophies at the expense of everyone else.

You then have AEK and PAOK, where K stands for Constantinople. Both are refugee clubs. You have AEK, with a dream of returning to their home town. Another saying we have is "better first in the village than second in the town". First can be exchanged with king etc. PAOK fans on the other hand are content to be kings of Salonica. That's their mission. Ironically, in total trophies won in all sports they were 3rd until a few years ago and possibly are barely 2nd now. Either way, their ambitions are just that. Aris on the other hand was a cosmopolitan club (supported by the large Jewish community as well) and had ambitions to be the most important club in Greece. And now they have to deal with PAOK. (And they're also run by corrupt people that made them into a vehicle for other purposes but since society is sick, they're just too happy that they're above PAOK for a change and can go to Europe finally).

Due to the 1923 situation, there were two mentalities in Greece. The Ψωροκώσταινα mentality, which talks of Greece as some small, sick state in between two worlds(east and west), typically backed by Royalists. And then you had the pro-western factions that want to be...European. The 1910s displayed this at all levels if you're interested in that. One would not expect to see this carry on with football in one of the most apolitical* countries in terms of sports, but a lot of people who have studied this have reached these conclusions and they're hard to argue against.

* While Panathinaikos is supposed to be the elite's club and Olympiakos the port side workers, and the Aris/PAOK situation is rather similar, this has stopped being a thing since the 50s. And there are no "left wing" or "right wing" clubs either. At least not to their core, some fanbases due lean one way or the other.

But yeah back to your question, I think the mentality clashes, the general sentiment on what their club stands for, the corruption and the stupid laws that made fans blood boil since there's barely a movement of fans in away games for over 15 years all brings this result. The fan move ban is just a result of the corruption anyway.
But for PAOK in particular, this is a club whose fans are chasing ghosts, want to present themselves as macho and above all, they are overzealous.
 
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delaurentis

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Thanks for your explanation Brehme,
Would love to ask more regarding this topic, but I'll keep on track in this thread:
 
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brehme1989

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Sticking with Greece, here's a video of one of my recent favorites. I'd rate him as a top 3 Greek player since the turn of the millennium (only using players with at least 5 solid seasons) along with Kostas Katsouranis and Giorgos Karagounis. I'd say Lymperopoulos tops the list.

Two rather long videos, but who doesn't like nice goals?
[youtube]om7ozOTEWMI[/youtube]

[youtube]moiRlpYiAAs[/youtube]

early career
[youtube]cP9M3hLQEFU[/youtube]

He was one of the best players in Greece during the years of the Euro 2004 qualifiers but he was omitted from the squad, for no reason given. The irony is that he was called up right after and he was one of the most crucial people in getting some results.


His trophy case is rather empty as he's one of the greatest players to be robbed by the wave of corruption that ruled Greece from 1996 until this day. I can count at least 4 championships that his teams were blatantly robbed off (1998, 2000, 2003, 2008) and you can make arguments for more given the conditions. Played in the quarter finals of the Champions League and Uefa Cup as well. Was twice the league's top scorer, only managed to win a Greek Cup in 2011 though. Later in his career he played for Eintracht Frankfurt for two seasons before returning to Greece.
More of a forward than a striker, so he wasn't mainly a scorer. Ciro Ferrara still remembers that nutmeg in Athens :) He also rejected Juventus twice, something rather common for Panathinaikos great Greek forwards that ended up at AEK later in their career, as Saravakos [imo the greatest Greece player ever, especially if we consider Hatzipanayis Soviet or essentially from Cyprus] had also rejected a move to Juventus once in the 80s.

A nice one with the Greece jersey:
[youtube]EkY4IUvDd9o[/youtube]

Unfortunately no one was arsed to make a compilation of his national team goals :D
 
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brehme1989

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Last European Cup finalists before the emergence of the Champions League, all goals till the end:

[youtube]_DEUiri7Gng[/youtube]


[youtube]9zYvv6jA-co[/youtube]
 
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brehme1989

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A video of the "best goals ever" in Serie A, though the original Italian title just says beautiful goals. Subjective of course, but enjoyable nonetheless.

[youtube]dFpVAanREYU[/youtube]
 
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brehme1989

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[youtube]RrHXjtiwsSg[/youtube]
 
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Harpsabu

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Just ordered the 97/98 home jersey with Ronaldo on the back. Can't wait for it to arrive. Will be wearing it to beer gardens this summer.
 
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brehme1989

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Cup final day in Italy and France, some old school highlights:

[youtube]e-lSWBse9Qw[/youtube]

Plus a video that shows the...karateka part of 80s football

[youtube]kyp2_8db0j8[/youtube]



[youtube]DP2BmcZrVlE[/youtube]


[youtube]sUWj2HL7SP4[/youtube]



[youtube]Oiy6Fj-Y9eY[/youtube]



2nd division Guingamp won the cup against Rennes in 2009 (in 2014, they had a rematch, this time both as Ligue 1 clubs and Guingamp won that one again!)
[youtube]y8GalvlJ63s[/youtube]


Lower league teams are a common sight in the Coupe de France actually. 9 times the finalist was from 2nd to 4th tier in the last 26 editions.


[youtube]b5YKnCyLahU[/youtube]
 
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brehme1989

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[youtube]QCsgYp02EEA[/youtube]
 
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nelsonrivas2011

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Whenever i hear players and coaches complaining about the pitch these days i remember this game.

14 April 1998. Spartak Moscow - Inter. UEFA Cup semi-final. Second leg.

Hopefully they'll never see the Maracanã pitch
 
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brehme1989

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Youtube wants you to watch it directly from there.

(West) Germany vs France, 1982 semi final. One of the greatest international games ever.

 

nelsonrivas2011

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Final of the 1988 Brasileirão. Internacional - Bahia. Second leg. Bahia win the league.
 
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