Sandro Mazzola

[Y&h]

And for the record, the evidence that La Grande Inter was heavily involved in matchfixing is a lot bigger.

Necessary evil.

 

[JJM]

No I called your claim that we are like Rube, Rube propaganda...learn how to read properly eh...
Stop this Rube vs us comparison as no one wants to fucking hear it

I knew about the doping shit before you even knew FIF existed

 

[bandiera]

No I called your claim that we are like Rube, Rube propaganda...learn how to read properly eh...
Stop this Rube vs us comparison as no one wants to fucking hear it

I knew about the doping shit before you even knew FIF existed

Actually, no... get off your pedestal.

Jovetic must have pulled a Herrera and slipped opioids into his gatorade or some shit like that.

there you go again with that Rube propaganda no one here wants to hear...

 

[JJM]

You still don't get it do you...well I won't bother anymore

 

[bandiera]

Necessary evil.

No one else matchfixed on that scale in Italian (or European football before La Grande Inter. Our sporting director, Italo Allodi, was Luciano Moggi's mentor. Many referees (notably Georgy Vadas) came forward and claimed they had been offered fortunes by Angelo Moratti and Deszo Solti, a matchfixer in Allodi's books. The referee in the very controversial second leg of the 1965 European cup semifinal vs Liverpool was actually implicated in a matchfixing scandal with Allodi when he was at Juventus. The 1965 European Cup final was also played in the San Siro on an intentionally muddy and waterlogged pitch.

If you mean we could only have won by matchfixing, you are right because that's what happened. However, I think it's fairly speculative to say that the only way to have been competitive was through matchfixing. Many other clubs didn't need to do what we did. And even if you're right, which isn't improbable, it doesn't make it any less wrong.

 

[JJM]

yeah...if there was so much substantial evidence of match fixing as you say why then Uefa didn't act and I dunno maybe strip us of the cup and ban us from the competition for the next 5 years or smth...or did Moratti sr. also bribe the Uefa top officials?!

 

[Javier'sSon]

bendiera how do you know all of this? Reading books made by ex players? or old articles/documentaries? Whatever it is I'd like to check them my self for my own knowledge (not doubting you).

I am really clueless when it comes to these matters. However, I have always assumed that most of the traditionally big clubs have done many wrongs into making them the behemoths that they are today (or in the past). I do know that Real Madrid for example have been a government club and had many unfair advantages because of that.

When it comes to Serie A, granted like I said I'm not too familiar with the history, yet I have always thought that not only Juve were cheating (match fixing/bribes/doping etc etc) but other clubs have done so as well, I just figured that they were the first to do so. Much like when you're in exam and you see a student cheating and getting an A and you're thinking to yourself why the fuck do I study and work hard if I can just cheat like him? Of course I have no basis for this, it is just how I always thought. They started this toxic behavior in Italy!

So again, if you could give me some links or books I'd appreciate it.

 

[bandiera]

yeah...if there was so much substantial evidence of match fixing as you say why then Uefa didn't act and I dunno maybe strip us of the cup and ban us from the competition for the next 5 years or smth...or did Moratti sr. also bribe the Uefa top officials?!

What kind of argument is that? "If we were guilty then why weren't we punished?"

The evidence isn't clearcut against our trophy wins. It's circumstantial but it's very compelling. UEFA wouldn't strip us of our titles based off circumstantial evidence. They also wouldn't ban us from the competition for something that happened half a century ago.

 

[JJM]

What kind of argument is that? "If we were guilty then why weren't we punished?"

The evidence isn't clearcut against our trophy wins. It's circumstantial but it's very compelling.

yeah...that's what I thought...have fun with this...

I'm done

 

[bandiera]

bendiera how do you know all of this? Reading books made by ex players? or old articles/documentaries? Whatever it is I'd like to check them my self for my own knowledge (not doubting you).

I am really clueless when it comes to these matters. However, I have always assumed that most of the traditionally big clubs have done many wrongs into making them the behemoths that they are today (or in the past). I do know that Real Madrid for example have been a government club and had many unfair advantages because of that.

When it comes to Serie A, granted like I said I'm not too familiar with the history, yet I have always thought that not only Juve were cheating (match fixing/bribes/doping etc etc) but other clubs have done so as well, I just figured that they were the first to do so. Much like when you're in exam and you see a student cheating and getting an A and you're thinking to yourself why the fuck do I study and work hard if I can just cheat like him? Of course I have no basis for this, it is just how I always thought. They started this toxic behavior in Italy!

So again, if you could give me some links or books I'd appreciate it.

i get all my information from the internet. at first, i researched inter's history looking through wikipedia and italian wikipedia, and then i went into more depth on several different websites depending on the topic. there isnt a centralized source of italian football history that ive found.

and when it comes to the accusations, you need to sift through a lot of bullshit to find the truth. for example, the guy who brought allodi's matchfixing to light in the 70s, brian glanville, has written several articles about it but hes clearly very biased against italian football and inter. however, while his articles carry a lot of biased drivel, they also have concrete referee testimony against the club.

http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=119395

http://www.theguardian.com/news/1999/jun/08/guardianobituaries.brianglanville


inverting the pyramid also has a good excerpt about inter's history of matchfixing although, like glanville's articles, there's a lot of bias.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=Aa...=onepage&q=dortmund suarez inter 1964&f=false


and im pretty sure it was actually torino who was first implicated in matchfixing in italian football during the 1920s. football is really corrupt.

 

[Devious]

Is it just me or that I always sense a great satisfaction when you discuss how Inter are/were worse than jube, I can not help but to notice that everytime you get to discuss this matter. It is no secret that your ego is much bigger than your love for Inter, I bet if Inter gets involved in a calciopoli with official evidence you'd celebrating with tears like you won a lottery. Im not saying that you are a juventino trolling this forum members, but any new member would easily get that impression, and no you are not "being realistic" or that crap, I could name other members who can be realistic and utterly reasonible with their continous criticizm, I can call Nyall and Uni from top of my head, on the contrary of who usually take your criticizm to the extreme, this is hardly being realistic or unbiased.

No Inter fan specially the veterns who support Inter since many many years do not know about the Mazzola case and claims, but I can hardly remember any Inter fan highlights it with great passion and determination like he is obviously on a mission. I dont know what's your end game, but there are very simple hard facts that you need to know:

1- Inter has not, and will not, under any of the various and different managements that has taken charge over the century, be as dirty and as disgracful as jube.

2- The Inter teams from either eras, whether Grande Inter or the Treble Inter, were/are more real than any jube team that played in any era.

Know these simple facts and you'd save yourself alot of time of typing BS that no one would remotely take seriously, other than that, for example, trying to highlight the isolated incidents that happened over the course of time here and there is ok, some would like to listen to these stories and speculate whether they took place or they were a product of someone's imagination, or maybe abit of both.

Mazzola is a legend, I was shoked first time I heared these eligations in the 90s, but I also had the impression that some legends from Real Madrid had similar statements in the 50s, also the same from Liverpool in the times where they dominated the league, and so I thought back then that maybe it was a common thing back in the day, that was long time ago and now I hardly give attention to it, but what really gets on my nerve is insisting on these eligations and use them to even far more superior and serious accusation that simply discriminated all of Inter legends and frame them exactly like Moggi.

 

[Javier'sSon]

A serious post from Devious! I have seen everything in my lifetime.

bendiera and what about Juve sources? Surely there has to be concrete evidence against them as well. Also, everything is corrupt or once was at least, not just football.

 

[bandiera]

Is it just me or that I always sense a great satisfaction when you discuss how Inter are/were worse than jube, I can not help but to notice that everytime you get to discuss this matter. It is no secret that your ego is much bigger than your love for Inter, I bet if Inter gets involved in a calciopoli with official evidence you'd celebrating with tears like you won a lottery. Im not saying that you are a juventino trolling this forum members, but any new member would easily get that impression, and no you are not "being realistic" or that crap, I could name other members who can be realistic and utterly reasonible with their continous criticizm, I can call Nyall and Uni from top of my head, on the contrary of who usually take your criticizm to the extreme, this is hardly being realistic or unbiased.

No Inter fan specially the veterns who support Inter since many many years do not know about the Mazzola case and claims, but I can hardly remember any Inter fan highlights it with great passion and determination like he is obviously on a mission. I dont know what's your end game, but there are very simple hard facts that you need to know:

1- Inter has not, and will not, under any of the various and different managements that has taken charge over the century, be as dirty and as disgracful as jube.

2- The Inter teams from either eras, whether Grande Inter or the Treble Inter, were/are more real than any jube team that played in any era.

Know these simple facts and you'd save yourself alot of time of typing BS that no one would remotely take seriously, other than that, for example, trying to highlight the isolated incidents that happened over the course of time here and there is ok, some would like to listen to these stories and speculate whether they took place or they were a product of someone's imagination, or maybe abit of both.

Mazzola is a legend, I was shoked first time I heared these eligations in the 90s, but I also had the impression that some legends from Real Madrid had similar statements in the 50s, also the same from Liverpool in the times where they dominated the league, and so I thought back then that maybe it was a common thing back in the day, that was long time ago and now I hardly give attention to it, but what really gets on my nerve is insisting on these eligations and use them to even far more superior and serious accusation that simply discriminated all of Inter legends and frame them exactly like Moggi.

did i even mention juventus once over the past two pages? for christ sake, stop being so immature.

im sure most people here are well aware of ferruccio mazzolas claims but barely anyone took them seriously/acknowledged the existence of doping in la grande inter. i'm sorry bro, are you offended that i replied to an interview from sandro mazzola that vindicates that fact?

im not well informed enough to judge the record of one club against another, but im pretty fucking confident juventus never cheated with the degree of success of La Grande Inter. and at the very least there isnt any evidence to say juve matchfixed and doped when they were successful in Europe. have fun with that.

and by the way, luciano moggi was the protege of our sporting director in that era, allodi. it was actually under allodi that juventus were first recognized for matchfixing games, so tldr inter's sporting director brought matchfixing to juve. and when did i "discriminate" inter legends? give a clear example. i said they're dirty if they're dirty. allodi, herrera, and angelo moratti had their hands covered in dirt. facchetti and massimo moratti also had their hands covered in dirt. get over it.

 

[Devious]

Allodi was a goalkeeper in Zamalek FC in the Egyptian league, he played in the 60s and was known as a bully.

There was a song whenever he dont get called up for a match, the fans would chant : shalo Allodi we 7atto Shahin, Allodi aal mantoush la3been.

 

[bandiera]

Allodi was a goalkeeper in Zamalek FC in the Egyptian league, he played in the 60s and was known as a bully.

There was a song whenever he dont get called up for a match, the fans would chant : shalo Allodi we 7atto Shahin, Allodi aal mantoush la3been.

how is this relevant? italo allodi. sporting director of mantova in the late 50s, inter during the 60s, juve during the early 70s.

 

[Devious]

 

[bandiera]

A serious post from Devious! I have seen everything in my lifetime.

bendiera and what about Juve sources? Surely there has to be concrete evidence against them as well. Also, everything is corrupt or once was at least, not just football.

of course there is concrete evidence against juve, no one said anything otherwise because that wasnt the point.

 

[Javier'sSon]

Damn the argument is over already?!

 

[bandiera]

yeah...that's what I thought...have fun with this...

I'm done

the idea "we havent been punished so we arent guilty" is ridiculously naive. from a legal point of view i dont know what would compel uefa to do anything. even if there was clear cut evidence that was legally compelling against inter, they wouldnt be under any pressure to revoke our titles. and its football, none of this is exclusive to us. more importantly, this all happened half a century ago.

anyways, matchfixing is impossible to prove without direct proof. just like how juventus's ndiscretions nder moggi (along with milan, inter, fiorentina, and lazio) were impossible to prove before they were all wiretapped. juventus werent punished before 2006, so were they not guilty before 2006?

you cant ask for anything clearer than the circumstantial evidence against inter, other than allodi coming back from the dead and announcing that he was a serial matchfixer. there is no testimony against the 1965 and 1964 european cup wins, although the referee that was in charge of the 1965 semifinal (where liverpool were disallowed a goal and inter were wrongfully given two goals which pushed us into the european cup final) was implicated in a matchfixing scandal with Allodi when he was at Juve during the 70s. also, a referee, gyorgy vadas, came forward and revealed that he had been bribed by allodi and moratti before the 1966 european cup semifinal with real madrid.

 

[ScottishInterista]

I'll be honest, try to ignore most things that happened over 60 years ago that weren't world changing