South American Leagues

[ScottishInterista]

Even then that's debatable, before this game literally nobody on this forum gave much of a shit about the Liberatores. Maybe a decade or two ago it was still relevant but to the vast majority they don't give a shit

 

[Dylan]

Once more, you're trying to say that the average viewer, aka the popular opinion, and objectivity, are correlated. They are not.

There are probably more Justin Bieber fans in the California and the state of New York alone than there are fans of Pavarotti in the world. Does that make Pavarotti's music more irrelevant than Bieber?

More people in the world can tell me the starting 11 of Crystal Palace than Roma's, doesn't mean shit.

I don't understand why your argument is that people are dumbed down, hence we'll allow them to be grateful for being ignorant. Especially since it's unrelated to whatever I even said.

And no sorry, a random Argentina-Brazil friendly does not have the same 'objective interest' as the Libertadores, the same way the Champions League is not equivalent to the Nations League 3rd group or whatever they call it.

The "average viewer" needs to stop being so average if he wants to have a clue of what the sport it. Because until then he's just someone who casually watches something that happens to be on tv and doesn't really follow the sport.

I have no clue of what the Vienna Opera plays every at New Year's but I know for a fact that it's objectively one of the best recurring opera events of all time. People should treat football this way. Boca-River in the Libertadores final is by far the best thing that's happened to football since forever... Plain and simple. You don't get football if you don't get this.

They are if you keep insist on using the word objective, as at the end of the day that's how we judge game excitement these days, not by which bunch of non-top teams you want to follow.

Yes it does indeed make Pavorotti's music more irrelevant, because once again you're talking about tastes and preferences and just because you are on a high horse doesn't mean shit.

 

[brehme1989]

They are if you keep insist on using the word objective, as at the end of the day that's how we judge game excitement these days, not by which bunch of non-top teams you want to follow.

Yes it does indeed make Pavorotti's music more irrelevant, because once again you're talking about tastes and preferences and just because you are on a high horse doesn't mean shit.

Non-top teams?

What are you talking about?

You don't get to decide what a top team is, that's yet another objective thing. And if you don't see even this one, you obviously lack the objectivity to see the real football world that's not confined on what your television and media outlets serve you.

You think a top team is decided by a ranking on a video game or by the number of viewers on tv?
Sorry mate, but that's plain garbage.

 

[ScottishInterista]

Non-top teams?

What are you talking about?

You don't get to decide what a top team is, that's yet another objective thing. And if you don't see even this one, you obviously lack the objectivity to see the real football world that's not confined on what your television and media outlets serve you.

But you do, there is no way these teams are top teams in the world, there is such a gulf in class between the top team in europe and SA and it shows almost every year in the club world cup

 

[Dylan]

Non-top teams?

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about the two teams that you are so excited about, the teams that would be Europa League standard if they were in Europe.

You don't get to decide what a top team is, that's yet another objective thing. And if you don't see even this one, you obviously lack the objectivity to see the real football world that's not confined on what your television and media outlets serve you.

And there's the patronising, are you this jumped up about all the other intense derbies around the world? Celtic-Rangers were in a cup final recently, I didn't see a thread then.

You think a top team is decided by a ranking on a video game or by the number of viewers on tv?
Sorry mate, but that's plain garbage.

I never once said that, that's just you in default mode about people not giving a shit about this game and resorting to calling me some EPL fanboy.

I actually had planned on watching this by the way, but the attitude about it is the same as some hipster claiming that because he drinks some unknown beer that he is better than the guy who just wants a beer.

 

[brehme1989]

Celtic-Rangers palying in a Scottish cup final... Wow. That's so rare it's already happened 20 times! Call me when they play in a European Cup game against each other. What's next? A title-decisding league between them?

And yes, as a football fan I'm pumped up about most intense derbies in the world. Including derbies like Al Ahly v Zamalek in Egypt, Penarol v Nacional in Uruguay, Racing v Independiente in Argentina, Flamengo v Fluminense in Brazil, Rapid Wien v Austria Wien in Austria, Dynamo Dresden v Magdenburg in fucking German lower divisions, Partizan v Red Star in Serbia or some shit most people never heard of. If I have the chance to watch such a game, I will manage to do it. Because I love this sport, I don't watch it to pass my time and "be entertained", I watch it religiously.


Scottish, I don't decide what a top team is either. History, consistency, quality and relevance does. Boca Juniors and River Plate are top 15 clubs in world football history. I just know and respect the sport's present and history, others don't seem to be capable of that despite having all that in front of them.

 

[Dylan]

Scottish, I don't decide what a top team is either. History, consistency, quality and relevance does. Boca Juniors and River Plate are top 15 clubs in world football history. I just know and respect the sport's present and history, others don't seem to be capable of that despite having all that in front of them.

I assume you give a shit about Leeds vs Nottingham Forrest then.

 

[ScottishInterista]

Celtic-Rangers palying in a Scottish cup final... Wow. That's so rare it's already happened 20 times! Call me when they play in a European Cup game against each other. What's next? A title-decisding league between them?

What does this have to do with anything?

And yes, as a football fan I'm pumped up about most intense derbies in the world. Including derbies like Al Ahly v Zamalek in Egypt, Penarol v Nacional in Uruguay, Racing v Independiente in Argentina, Flamengo v Fluminense in Brazil, Rapid Wien v Austria Wien in Austria, Dynamo Dresden v Magdenburg in fucking German lower divisions, Partizan v Red Star in Serbia or some shit most people never heard of. If I have the chance to watch such a game, I will manage to do it. Because I love this sport, I don't watch it to pass my time and "be entertained", I watch it religiously.

All power to you, i don't.

Scottish, I don't decide what a top team is either. History, consistency, quality and relevance does. Boca Juniors and River Plate are top 15 clubs in world football history. I just know and respect the sport's present and history, others don't seem to be capable of that despite having all that in front of them.

Ironic because neither of them are relevant at all to the majority of people who watch football.

 

[brehme1989]

I assume you give a shit about Leeds vs Nottingham Forrest then.

Leeds Utd could have been a top team but they lacked consistency and relevance for a long time.

Nottingham Forrest is a club that had a good 5 year run and that was it. They have trophies to show for it, but other than that, their existence has been obscure.

The only real top clubs in world football from England are Liverpool and Man Utd, with Arsenal following them through the back door (depends if you search for top 40-50 teams or just the top 20). Celtic is also part of the discussion from the rest of the British teams. You may think that Chelsea and Man City, or even Tottenham, are huge clubs now, but Eupalla is somewhere laughing at that while doing flicks.

Also, Leeds vs Nottingham is no derby. It's just two former successful teams and the only thing that they have in common is that Brian Clough failed at Leeds and went on to Nottingham to succeed. Even if you were correct, there is zero relevance to this discussion.

By the way are you even reading what I'm typing or are you blindly hitting buttons and press reply?

I don't decide what a top team is either. History, consistency, quality and relevance does.

Was this hard to spot from my posts?

 

[Dylan]

I googled Eupalla and still don't know who he is. Is he another irrelevant dude from 30 years ago that you're going to claim only true afficionados like yourself can appreciate?

Also, Man City not being a top club is laughable, nobody gives a shit about history when they're walking the league for the second year running.

I don't decide what a top team is either. History, consistency, quality and relevance does.

Nope, only one of those decide a top team, and that's their current quality.

 

[brehme1989]

I googled Eupalla and still don't know who he is. Is he another irrelevant dude from 30 years ago that you're going to claim only true afficionados like yourself can appreciate?

Inter forums.
Italian football team forum.

Need
To
Save
This

New signature, thanks.


Thank you for proving me right.

 

[Dylan]

Inter forums.
Italian football team forum.

Need
To
Save
This

New signature, thanks.


Thank you for proving me right.

Likewise.

 

[Dylan]

Oh I see now, it's some term from a journalist. Kinda like Joey Barton, no?

 

[brehme1989]

Gianni Brera "some journalist". Okay I give up.

What's your take on Tranmere Rovers vs Chester? Big game, no?

 

[Dylan]

Gianni Brera "some journalist". Okay I give up.

What's your take on Tranmere Rovers vs Chester? Big game, no?

Yeah some journalist born in 1919 is going to change my mind that Boca-River is 5 times as big as a Barca-Real CL final. Looking forward to you telling me how he made some comment like Prisco 50 years ago. Maybe he'll have a quote about EPL fanboys.

Of course that isn't a big game, why would it be?

 

[brehme1989]

Once again, you're proving me right. Thanks for that.

Exposing this kind of information assymetry should be beneficial, yet here you are insisting on stubborn ideals that your environment has propagated you.

As much as you despise the fact, your background as part of the Anglosphere has made you somewhat isolated, if not arrogant, towards the existence of anything beyond what's relevant to that part of the globe.

You both have fallen for this, by repeatedly considering that money = power and relevance. Man City's got the money now, so they've magically transformed into this huge club. Who the fuck is Man City? One fluke Uefa Cup and not even a top 5 club in English league history? What's next? PSG being an elite club?

I'm sorry, but money doesn't mean shit in football.
Also, last I checked, the EU and Bosman rules as well as other gifts has created a huge gap between the top European clubs and the middle European clubs to the extent that it distorted pretty much everything that was happening for centuries. And that was the simple: everyone plays by the same rules. Even to this day, outside of Europe it is rare to see a federation allowing more than 3 or 4 foreigner players. If the so called Libertadores giants are "irrelevant", it'd be cooler if all these nouveau-riche European clubs stopped poaching their players and stacking them from a young age.

It wasn't until 20 years or so that this changed and it wasn't until 10 years that the gap of a handful of teams (funnily it's just 5-10, yet here we are talking as if they are the norm in European football) and the rest of the world got bigger.

But when you're coming from a background that considers a French, Dutch or Spanish derby other than Real-Barcelona irrelevant, how can anyone seriously talk about world football? And I've specifically picked those because they're practically a sw away from the British Isles or barely a two hour flight.

First fourty years of competition between SA and Europe, SA dominated. It was mostly over two legs as well.
2000s, 5 each. 2010s so far Corinthians beat the fluke CL champs of 2012 Chelsea. They obviously are in no shape to beat Barcelona or Real Madrid, just like no else in the world is. And Europe's not even playing fair.

When you learn how to distinguish the money involved and the conditions of the status quo from world football history, maybe we can have this conversation the proper way. Though, it'd redundant as you wouldn't find much to disagree with.

Just because you and many others cannot see the world as it is, doesn't mean it isn't that way!

 

[Dylan]

I was about halfway through your post then I realised the entire thing was you thinking I have anything but animosity towards anything English.

Once again you bring up history and seem to think I'm only judging Man City or PSG on their money not the objective fact they have two of the top 5/10 teams in football TODAY

Just to clarify, I had planned on watching this match but due to the rescheduling I can't. Much in the same way I'd watch a decent Europa League semi-final.

To stop this useless back and forth, I admire you enjoying these games and I think that more people, myself included (I was saying to myself a few weeks ago I should start following S.American football) should watch these but I just can't sit here and have you claim this is some pinnacle of football, regardless of media coverage/opinion,

 

[brehme1989]

I was about halfway through your post then I realised the entire thing was you thinking I have anything but animosity towards anything English.

I did say that as much as you despise the fact, it's sort of true that it's the environment you're surrounded by Y u no read? :yuno:


And yes, media paying attention doesn't mean much. The same media that considered Rooney and Lampard on par with Ronaldinho just tells me that they have no fucking clue of anything. And because my involvment with sports media is not just superficial and I've seen their "work", trust me, they know shit. Just like with politics and anything else in "journalism", you get to hear what the highest bidder asks you to say. Real journalism is freelance and thankfully we have a lot of blogs and youtube equivalents that pop up that show the real face of football.

We both live in places where watching Serie A is considered weird, let alone other "hipster shit".

 

[Dylan]

Oh I did read it and understood your anglosphere point but I should have explained that having that shit shoved down my throat all my life has lead me to an objective view on it. We certainly share similar viewpoints on "the media overrating EPL etc" but I do have a problem with people who just instantly discredit anything to do with it based on the pro-bias. Much like me with Rafinha

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think you're leaning too much against the media and not looking at things, here's that word again, objectively.

I think FIF is a nice, relatively media-free biased source for football opinions. It's my only consistent source of group football opinions that isn't the comment section under a Facebook video and as we are a European club, the interest for this game just isn't that high.

I had planned on watching the game before it was postponed but can't now.

 

[Devious]

Aha so this explains the signature, and both of your bad moods.

Get a room now, stop wasting forum space.