The Italian player debate

[scutzon]

Since it's the Italian League, I agree that teams should have at least 2 Italian players.

But, considering that we are Internazionale FC, we should have players from all over the world.

But, I know that this is not possible, so I agree that all Serie A teams should have at least a certain number of Italian players.

 

[Stefan]

I don't understand this idea that cuase we play in italy we have to have italian in our team?? Why is that?? We are a private entity and should be allowed to employ who ever we feel like. :stuckup:

 

[Frisko]

I think this rule would be disgraceful. Club football is not about nationality. It's about colours, it's about representing a CITY. Who cares where the players come from?

It would be akward for a coach to be forced to select players in the team because of their nationality.

Players are professionals, they work hard and try to earn a place in the team. Being in a position of disadvantage because of your nationality is simply unfair, it goes against the spirit of the sport.

 

[Handoyo]

If I want to watch Italians, I would watch Italian NT instead of FC Inter. The thing that appeals me the most to club football is actually the blend and mix of nationalities in an organization. If it is limited in any ways, it would make it less enjoyful IMO.

It seems that the main reason for the push for more Italian players in Italian clubs is that it allows Italian NT to do better. This, I truly disagree with because the Italians will have more reason to be complacent with their spot in the club. If you push them to a limit that they have no guarantees of a spot in a football club, I bet that they will work harder in order to win the spot from the foreigners. In the end, the player who works hardest and is most talented deserves the spot in the team.

The Italians need not be afraid that there will be no spot in the team for them because most, if not all, managers in Serie A are Italians. They would surely do what's best for the national team too and of course, there is a certain thing called favoritism. It's just like Benitez preferring Spanish players or Wenger preferring French. I believe that if given the choice, Italian managers would choose Italians too. The problem with our club is just that we have a lot of talented foreigners. I think this problem is exaggerated and it should only be reviewed if the Italians are not getting enough Serie A actions.


Handyo

 

[intermilansg]

The fact that we are called Internazionale says it all. Who cares about ones nationality as long as the passion for the club is there.

 

[Antti]

Excellent work with line-ups, Fabio! Nothing new to me though.

So Tommi, if you are an Arsenal fan, would you be unhappy when your team goes on a 49 match unbeaten run because the only English in the team are Ashley Cole and Sol Campbell?

I think you should ask a long term (minimum 25 years) Arsenal supporter(s) to answer to the question.

If I want to watch Italians, I would watch Italian NT instead of FC Inter.

To me that's completely impossible since I have no emotional bands to Azzurri (not even Finland NT can arouse same emoticons than Inter in me). I don't want to underestimate National team football at all but club football is just something bigger (at least to me).

It seems that the main reason for the push for more Italian players in Italian clubs is that it allows Italian NT to do better.

I don't know Fabio and especially Tommi's motives but I personally don't give a shit for Azzurri success. I repeat what I have always been saying regarding this issue: Differences that football cultures of different countries have/had will entirely disappear if the world of football becomes completely global. What I mean there would not be German, English or Italian football style to play football anymore, there would just be same grey global football. The second reason of mine is that a gap between big and small clubs would decrease (sport would win) if there were foreign limits.

The problem with our club is just that we have a lot of talented foreigners.

Partly true but the main reason why (big) clubs tend to have some many foreigners nowadays is, however, money. Foreigners are cheaper than domestic players.

I'm not, though some people may think so, a person who hates foreigners. Having foreign players in football is enormous fortune but as always, moderation must be kept.

As long as the players win and are passionate for Inter, to hell with nationality!

But isn't having non-passionate players one of problems of Inter (the most international team of Italy)? I'll let you decide yourself why it is so (if it even is in your opinion).

If it´s racism to use three italians in one italian team, then i´m proud to be a racist.

Same but I claim so called 50% rule.

Ugh, I have spoken.

 

[Jake]

I have to say that I'm with Fabio, Tommi and Antti on this one. It wasn't so long ago when those restrictions existed. Those were glory days. There are million things that have gone worse because of stupid EU legislation.

- Young italian players don't get enough chances anymore, because clubs buy more foreigns players.
- Lots of foreign players are bought to clubs and most of them never get a real chance either, several of them are left on their own in a strange country. This is a big problem especially for very young foreign players who can't make it to the team. They are often left in cold with no money.
- Clubs have lost a bit of their identity, especially since there are less and less "own town boys" playing for the teams.
- "Home matches" are not the same anymore.

The whole thing is caused by EU legislation which is the same in every work, so it has to be the same in football too. You should think the whole matter form another point of view. Let's take an Inter grown young player. He'd probably get a chance in the first team, but the foreign players get to play instead of him. He has to move somewhere else to get to play. If this was about an ordinary job and you were the one put asied because some foreigner took your place, how would you feel? It doens't work like this in other businesses, because usually local people have upper hand there, but in football the case is worse.

This is not only about Italy, the same problem is in every big football country in Europe. Just go and ask EPL, Bundesliga or La Liga fans, there are many of us thinking like this.

Last but not least, this has nothing to do with racism. One thing I hate the most is people hiding behind "rasicm" too often. By the way there still are restrictions for non-EU players, how come that is not racist then?

 

[Stefan]

Go and look at the derbies antti and tell me who is the players hugging the milan players. Not the foreigners mostly its is the italian players.

For me its quite obvious when watching the scenes before the big games which players are playing with great passion for inter in these games and they are mostly the foreigners. Guys like stankovic,kily,martins,cordoba,jz. While are great italian contigent vieri,ect are hugging and kissing the opposition.

Yes adriano also huggs the brazillian players from milan.

But I see a lot more passion from the so called foreigners then the italians on the team.

And on this culture thing. I believe every club should have their own culture. Not every country. To me Inter is a club who have always used foreigners as has milan while juve and roma have mostly used more italians.

 

[Stefan]

I have to say that I'm with Fabio, Tommi and Antti on this one. It wasn't so long ago when those restrictions existed. Those were glory days. There are million things that have gone worse because of stupid EU legislation.

- Young italian players don't get enough chances anymore, because clubs buy more foreigns players.
- Lots of foreign players are bought to clubs and most of them never get a real chance either, several of them are left on their own in a strange country. This is a big problem especially for very young foreign players who can't make it to the team. They are often left in cold with no money.
- Clubs have lost a bit of their identity, especially since there are less and less "own town boys" playing for the teams.
- "Home matches" are not the same anymore.

The whole thing is caused by EU legislation which is the same in every work, so it has to be the same in football too. You should think the whole matter form another point of view. Let's take an Inter grown young player. He'd probably get a chance in the first team, but the foreign players get to play instead of him. He has to move somewhere else to get to play. If this was about an ordinary job and you were the one put asied because some foreigner took your place, how would you feel? It doens't work like this in other businesses, because usually local people have upper hand there, but in football the case is worse.

This is not only about Italy, the same problem is in every big football country in Europe. Just go and ask EPL, Bundesliga or La Liga fans, there are many of us thinking like this.

Last but not least, this has nothing to do with racism. One thing I hate the most is people hiding behind "rasicm" too often. By the way there still are restrictions for non-EU players, how come that is not racist then?

I my book that is also . but I want go into it. I ahte restrictions.

It doesn't work like that in other bussiness cause in other business its not more expensive to get foreign labour than local labour. Also the local labour is many times of the skill. But in football many times the local skill isn't as good as the foreign skill.

 

[Jake]

It doesn't work like that in other bussiness cause in other business its not more expensive to get foreign labour than local labour. Also the local labour is many times of the skill. But in football many times the local skill isn't as good as the foreign skill.

Exactly and that's why there should be restrictions for local footballers' protection.

 

[Stefan]

It doesn't work like that in other bussiness cause in other business its not more expensive to get foreign labour than local labour. Also the local labour is many times of the skill. But in football many times the local skill isn't as good as the foreign skill.

Exactly and that's why there should be restrictions for local footballers' protection.

No there shouldn't be. The market should decide just like in any other privately owned bussines sector. If club's didn't overprice their italian players more clubs would buy them. Thats the problem.

The free market system is fair.

 

[Hammoudi]

Great topic and work Fabio. However, the only thing these stats suggest to me is that if you have far more italian playes than foreigners, you are mediocre or relegation-type team.

France won the WC and Euro when almost all their players played outside and their league is filled with foreigners. Brazil win WC's while their league is pathetic. League has little to do with NT performance, it's all in the players and the system.

I repeat what I have always been saying regarding this issue: Differences that football cultures of different countries have/had will entirely disappear if the world of football becomes completely global. What I mean there would not be German, English or Italian football style to play football anymore, there would just be same grey global football.

And what's wrong with that? Isn't one of Fifa's mottos 'bringing the world together'? I'd love for 'Grey' football to be dominant since this means many nations will be in equal ground in the WORLD cup.

But isn't having non-passionate players one of problems of Inter (the most international team of Italy)? I'll let you decide yourself why it is so (if it even is in your opinion).

All the passionate players in our teams are foreigners. All the players that are aggressive and those who cried in our lowest moments were foreigners. And our biggest so-called home boy is sometimes distributing hugs, celebrating goals and saying he'd quit soccer for Cricket if he was paid the same, yes that's Vieri and no that's not passion.

Lots of foreign players are bought to clubs and most of them never get a real chance either, several of them are left on their own in a strange country. This is a big problem especially for very young foreign players who can't make it to the team. They are often left in cold with no money.

Then how did all the africans and south americans teens make it into Europe? They don't know the culture, the language and have to fight social problems. But they still succeed more than none. If you are good enought you will make it, whether Italian or chinese.

Clubs have lost a bit of their identity, especially since there are less and less "own town boys" playing for the teams.
"Home matches" are not the same anymore.

I think there should be a distinction between national players and home grown players. If inter play Milan, then I'd suspect that a peruvian that came up through the ranks will feel more intense than an inter player from Bologna.

 

[Tommi]

France won the WC and Euro when almost all their players...<snip>

...were born and raised outside of France?

All the passionate players in our teams are foreigners. All the players that are aggressive and those who cried in our lowest moments were foreigners.

Pretty strong claim you got there. And you know this how? Because few shed a tear in front of television. How do you know how all the italians feels/acts when they lose or something? You know that everything doesn´t happen in front of television, right?

And our biggest so-called home boy is sometimes distributing hugs, celebrating goals and saying he'd quit soccer for Cricket if he was paid the same, yes that's Vieri and no that's not passion.

It´s so ridiculous to bring that cricket quote up so often. How do you know if it was taken out of context, if he meant it as a joke, if he said it with a smile etc. If/when someone else says something, then you guys are "No, dont judge him, his words were probably taken out of context or translated wrongly". But when some bad mouthing story ´bout Vieri comes up, "Hey guys, it´s true, he just said it...what a loser he is".

Just ridiculous. Anyway, dont want to turn this into another Vieri debate.

 

[Miki]

And what's wrong with that? Isn't one of Fifa's mottos 'bringing the world together'? I'd love for 'Grey' football to be dominant since this means many nations will be in equal ground in the WORLD cup.

That is correct. While it will certainly mean the loss of a country's unique individual footballing style, it also means every other country will be able to adopt and deploy them with ease. It will make for more exciting games between individual countries' leagues without the need to pan each country's particular style of play.

Many of you have already brought up a fantastic point about Inter's own players. It's no secret that for the last years, it has been a foreign charge that has led Inter all the way. From our captain to star strikers, it has always been non-Italians that have paved the way for this club forward (or backward for our case). This has also meant that it is the foreigners who have more often than not taken up the mantle of our fight against the enemy more personally than the Italians.

One of the main reasons for the general lack of passion as opposed to the foreigners is this: The foreigners are as they are, strangers in a different country. As such, they are more subject to feeling local pride than Italians in general. Why? This is simply because as foreigners, they don't have any desire originally to adhere to national culture, but more simply to the local ones - to please the club's fans more importantly than not. Thus, the foreigners feel more attached to a club since it is their one and only home in this land they call Italy. For the Italians, they have journeyed around more often than the foreigners and being fellow countrymen, feel the need to share a bond with other Italians and Italian clubs, even if they are rivals of the club they play for. In essence, they feel the need to be as Italian as any player from a rival team whilst the foreigner doesn't feel that way. He only feels the need to attach himself to the club and to endear himself to the club's own fans and not the nations'.

Consequently, you will arrive at situations where the homegrown players feel less need to detest, dislike or hate an opposing Italian player because they are both countrymen playing for clubs in the same country. Fundamentally speaking, it is all about national pride that brings the Italians closer together while leaving the foreigners to remain attached within their club's borders.

Ciao,
Tim

 

[Hammoudi]

France won the WC and Euro when almost all their players...<snip>

...were born and raised outside of France?

Okay, then how would you define a frenchman? Is it one that was born in France, or his father or grandfather? I think if the French law says that a frenchman is one that has their citizenship, then we'll just have to see that that defines a frenchman.

That's another debate in it's own, but a player's origin shouldn't be taken into consideration when talking about the NT.

Pretty strong claim you got there. And you know this how? Because few shed a tear in front of television. How do you know how all the italians feels/acts when they lose or something? You know that everything doesn´t happen in front of television, right?

How would you define it? I think since we don't know how Vieri/CZ/Materazzi/DiBaggio felt after the derby loss or May 5, we won't know for sure. I saw the foreigners crying and the italians just walking around, I could be wrong though, maybe they were pulling an act!

It´s so ridiculous to bring that cricket quote up so often. How do you know if it was taken out of context, if he meant it as a joke, if he said it with a smile etc. If/when someone else says something, then you guys are "No, dont judge him, his words were probably taken out of context or translated wrongly". But when some bad mouthing story ´bout Vieri comes up, "Hey guys, it´s true, he just said it...what a loser he is".

Yeah, fair enough. Vieri isn't the media guy and maybe he didn't want to come out and refute this statement and create a fuss. But you can't say that Vieri is the most passionate inter player.

 

[Tommi]

Okay, then how would you define a frenchman?

Born and raised in France or mother/father is a french.

How would you define it?

I really can´t define who is the most passionate and who´s not.

But you can't say that Vieri is the most passionate inter player.

See the answer above.

Back to Italian player debate or whatever this is.

This rule is immoral. And I am very please it will never happen. Thank God for the eu.

Are you sure there´s a rule in EU about this? Or is it Uefa´s own rule? I´m asking ´cause i´m not sure.

That question came to my mind yesterday when i was thinking of this issue, EU and sport all together. In Finland, ice-hockey is pop. We have our domestic league and you can have five (5) non-Finnish players in your line up. In Czech Republic, Austria and Slovakia they only allow three (3) foreign players etc. etc. These are all EU countries and if there´s a rule in EU about this, then i´m sure everything would´ve been changed already.

By the way, anyone have heard/read more about FIGC recently? They tried already or will try to enforce a rule that will go into effect next season or the season after, in which 9 of the 18 players called up to every game have to be Italian. If someone knows more about this, please stand up.

Aigner wants fewer foreigners

Outgoing Uefa chief executive Gerhard Aigner has said there should be more home-based players in English football. He also admitted European football's governing body should have done more to stop the influx of overseas players.

"It doesn't make sense to have no English player in an English team," Aigner told.

"There must be a rule that says the English championship should be played by a majority of English players."

He added: "It would help leagues like those in Denmark and Sweden to keep some of their players on board and strengthen their league."

Aigner also described the Bosman rule, which allows out of contract players to move without a fee being paid to their club, as a "disaster for sport and especially for football".

"All of the excesses we know now and many of the problems in the game come back to the decision," he admitted.

"I think we could have revised the transfer rules in a coherent way and kept the rule which limits the movement of the players.

"It is a matter of sport being good or sport going in the wrong way and it is going in the wrong way due to this decision," he added.

Aigner talked about English football there, but he could´ve as well talked about football in general.

And last, the legend know what he´s talking about ->

Johan Cruijff: "If this trend will continue it will have a negative effect. Clubs should always play with six players from it's own country." :star: :star: :star:

 

[Hammoudi]

Okay, then how would you define a frenchman?

Born and raised in France or mother/father is a french.

Then your statement was wrong. The only player who was born and raised outside France was Vieira if I'm not mistaken. Zidane was born and raised in France and doesn't even speak his parents' country's language.

So, I don't know what you meant by that Don T? I guess you just hate the French. I hate the NT and felt it was unfair for them to be considered great. I had joy in WC02 and Euro04 when they were shown La Porte. :star:

 

[Antti]

And what's wrong with that? Isn't one of Fifa's mottos 'bringing the world together'? I'd love for 'Grey' football to be dominant since this means many nations will be in equal ground in the WORLD cup.

Isn't it clear already? Differences in (football) cultures have always been enormous fortune and a target of interest to me. That`s why I would like them stay in football forever.

And FIFA`s only motto is to make money as much as ever possible.

About non passionate players. I meant to be a bit provocative in my last post and apparently I succeeded. I know and am extremely grateful we have very passionate foreigners (have to add that crying after painful defeats isn`t signal of passion to me) such as J.Zanetti and Cordoba (maybe even Stankovic and Cambiasso too) but everybody is definitely not like them. Followwing statement is my very subjective opinion/presumption but I rather think that domestic players show generally more heart than foreigners.

That question came to my mind yesterday when i was thinking of this issue, EU and sport all together. In Finland, ice-hockey is pop. We have our domestic league and you can have five (5) non-Finnish players in your line up.

That`s excatly what I was thinking about earlier today.

Besides didn`t UEFA suggest that 50 per cent of players should be domestic? If that was a rule clubs, however, could appoint as many foreign players as they ever want (since the rule doesn`t directly say that X foreigners are allowed). Therefore EU laws weren`t broken.

They tried already or will try to enforce a rule that will go into effect next season or the season after, in which 9 of the 18 players called up to every game have to be Italian.

Wow, that would be something!

A big thumb up for Aigner, Cruijff, Johansson and everyone who have had guts to bring the issue up.

Last but not least, this has nothing to do with racism. One thing I hate the most is people hiding behind "rasicm" too often. By the way there still are restrictions for non-EU players, how come that is not racist then?

Same.

 

[Stefan]

They tried already or will try to enforce a rule that will go into effect next season or the season after, in which 9 of the 18 players called up to every game have to be Italian.

Wow, that would be something!

A big thumb up for Aigner, Cruijff, Johansson and everyone who have had guts to bring the issue up.

Can't happen would be illegal. Thank goodness for the eu's brilliant laws.

 

[Mikkel]

Yeah agree

If they tried to force such rule through, their ass would be sued, and the only thing they will get out of it is a huge fine.